Which offensive spells have the highest AoE (First party spells preferred)

[SangoProduction]

I saw a spell (Ring of Repulsion) in an undoubtedly 3rd party book (Spells and Magic) that had an AoE with circular radius around you of 100 +10/CL ft, and allowed you to Bull Rush all enemies as though you had a 15 + caster level Strength, and was following them (without actually moving). But, it only does subdual damage, and only if bull rushed into a wall is the downside...but this reminded me of the Metamagic Feat: Explosive Spell.

And explosive spell actually does damage based on how far the person travels (though it must be in the shortest direction, so lines and cones can just be marked off).

Actually that spawns another question: How would these work together, considering the spell does not state which direction you must bull rush them. Could you bull rush them all into you, then it explode them out 200 feet at 10th level? Could you bull rush back towards you them in the middle of the explosion, increasing the distance they are traveling during the explosion, thus increasing the damage? (Although, it could be argued that the spell doesn't actually work since it said "Enemies can't be bull rushed outside of the spells range" which is personal, rather than outside of it's area.)

Well, regardless of the interaction, what about the original question? What's the greatest radial AoE in the game (at least within the first party books)?

[Ephemeral_Being]

I think it's Locate City+Snowcasting+Flash Frost. Deals two cold damage to everything within (10 miles)*Caster Level.

[SangoProduction]

I think it's Locate City+Snowcasting+Flash Frost. Deals two cold damage to everything within (10 miles)*Caster Level.

.....I'm going to have to look that up....Pretty sure that's not how it works...but I'll still bring it up with Explosive spell at the table one time, just to see his reaction.

EDIT: There are no online references to any of these except the "Locate City bomb", which don't actually give any references to these except in name.

[sideswipe]

.....I'm going to have to look that up....Pretty sure that's not how it works...but I'll still bring it up with Explosive spell at the table one time, just to see his reaction.

locate city bomb is one of the dubiously debated things that have a large amount of people saying it works and an equally large saying no.

just like DWK = true dragons, another garden on two sides of a fence.

[SangoProduction]

locate city bomb is one of the dubiously debated things that have a large amount of people saying it works and an equally large saying no.

just like DWK = true dragons, another garden on two sides of a fence.

Well, regardless, let's just consider only innately offensive spells - those with areas of effect that aren't actually a mistake between range and area.

[Ephemeral_Being]

EDIT: There are no online references to any of these except the "Locate City bomb", which don't actually give any references to these except in name.

Locate City is a spell in Races of Destiny.
Snowcasting is a Metamagic feat from Frostburn
Flash Frost is a Metamagic feat from PHB2

Locate City affects a massive area around the caster. It has to, in order to pinpoint the closest city.
Snowcasting adds the [Cold] descriptor to any spell.
Flash Frost adds two damage to any spell with the [Cold] descriptor. And, the feat itself specifies that it applies to spells "that affect an area."

I don't see how this is ambiguous.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

As a general rule, you should ignore books that don't have the Dungeons & Dragons logo on the cover when playing a game of Dungeons & Dragons, unless that book is for a specific setting or world in which the game takes place. Spells & Magic (http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying-BAS1004/dp/0971439257) is a Bastion Press (3rd party) d20 book (not D&D) published in 2002 (during 3.0), it may be compatible with D&D due to using the same rules system (d20), but there are plenty of d20 non-D&D RPGs. Just because something uses a compatible rules system doesn't mean they can be mashed together. You're not going to use everything from d20 Modern, d20 Conan (http://www.amazon.com/Conan-Roleplaying-Game-d20-Fantasy/dp/1904577695), d20 Warcraft (http://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraft-The-Roleplaying-Game/dp/1588467813), and d20 Game of Thrones (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Thrones-D20-Based-Open-Gaming/dp/1588469425) in your Dungeons and Dragons game. There's more than enough official D&D material to make any character you could ever imagine within the rules and existing mechanics. The only thing 3rd party d20 sources could bring to the table are game-breaking, overpowered shenanigans that will just ruin the game for everyone else due to the power discrepancy it will cause.

[Tvtyrant]

Apocalypse from the sky, naturally. 10 mile area/cl. With circle magic it becomes silly.

[Sith_Happens]

I don't see how this is ambiguous.

The part where Locate City affects a circle, circles are two-dimensional, and therefore the shortest distance out of Locate City's area is a fraction of an inch upward. That's the argument anyways.

[SangoProduction]

Apocalypse from the sky, naturally. 10 mile area/cl. With circle magic it becomes silly.

lol...That works.

[Tvtyrant]

The part where Locate City affects a circle, circles are two-dimensional, and therefore the shortest distance out of Locate City's area is a fraction of an inch upward. That's the argument anyways.
That was why the explosive spell version did not work. The current version is to use felldrain to make thousands of wights and let them eat everyone else.

[Ephemeral_Being]

The part where Locate City affects a circle, circles are two-dimensional, and therefore the shortest distance out of Locate City's area is a fraction of an inch upward. That's the argument anyways.

You are... technically right. The spell does specify "circle."

But that is dumb. That is really, really dumb. Any sort of hill, or change in elevation would render the spell useless, by that reading. Are you telling me that in your game, if I'm standing at the bottom of a hill and the city is at the top, I wouldn't find it? The spell literally only works on ONE physical plane?


That was why the explosive spell version did not work. The current version is to use felldrain to make thousands of wights and let them eat everyone else.

Oh, is that what he was talking about? I always ASSUMED the way people decided to use it was Fell Drain. I want to run a campaign post-Wightpocalypse, actually, but no one wants to fight nothing but Wights for the entire campaign.

[sideswipe]

You are... technically right. The spell does specify "circle."

But that is dumb. That is really, really dumb. Any sort of hill, or change in elevation would render the spell useless, by that reading. Are you telling me that in your game, if I'm standing at the bottom of a hill and the city is at the top, I wouldn't find it? The spell literally only works on ONE physical plane?


dumb? your the one trying to use a spell that says "george-town is over there" for turning 100 miles radius of commoners into wights...

ANY discussion about the locate city bomb is dumb. period.

[Troacctid]

You are... technically right. The spell does specify "circle."

But that is dumb. That is really, really dumb. Any sort of hill, or change in elevation would render the spell useless, by that reading. Are you telling me that in your game, if I'm standing at the bottom of a hill and the city is at the top, I wouldn't find it? The spell literally only works on ONE physical plane?
The range of the spell isn't two-dimensional, so you'd still detect it just fine. Actually, as far as I can tell, the "area" entry is totally redundant. The spell doesn't affect the area at all.

[Ephemeral_Being]

dumb? your the one trying to use a spell that says "george-town is over there" for turning 100 miles radius of commoners into wights...

ANY discussion about the locate city bomb is dumb. period.

Granted. The idea IS ludicrous. I was just curious if that's really how people read the Range/Area of Locate City.

I'm running an Underdark campaign, and if Locate City doesn't officially work in three dimensions, then I have to house-rule it to do-so. Otherwise, finding cities is going to be nearly impossible.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Granted. The idea IS ludicrous. I was just curious if that's really how people read the Range/Area of Locate City.

I'm running an Underdark campaign, and if Locate City doesn't officially work in three dimensions, then I have to house-rule it to do-so. Otherwise, finding cities is going to be nearly impossible.

Not necessarily, two-dimensional does not mean perfectly flat. Just make it go that distance along any walkable surfaces from the point of origin.

[Eloel]

dumb? your you are the one trying to use a spell that says "george-town is over there" for turning 100 miles radius of commoners into wights...

ANY discussion about the locate city bomb is dumb. period.

It's usable that way, RAW. It's nowhere near RAI, and it's dumb, yes. Also, fixed that for you.

[sideswipe]

It's usable that way, RAW. It's nowhere near RAI, and it's dumb, yes. Also, fixed that for you.

cheers. damn dyslexia.

i'm a member of the DNA, National Dyslexic's Association.

[Sith_Happens]

Not necessarily, two-dimensional does not mean perfectly flat. Just make it go that distance along any walkable surfaces from the point of origin.

This interpretation is directly supported by the spell description:


This spell measures the distance to the “nearest” community as the minimum distance one would have to travel to reach the city without moving through solid objects. Thus, a caster on the surface isn’t likely to locate a subterranean city half a mile beneath his feet, even if the next closest community is 5 miles away overland.

[Troacctid]

As far as spells that deal damage naturally without shenanigans, I'm pretty sure apocalypse from the sky takes the cake. Aside from that, erupt (Serpent Kingdoms) and blizzard (Frostburn) both have a radius of 100 ft/level, which is pretty substantial.

[Necromancy]

Apocalypse from the sky, naturally. 10 mile area/cl. With circle magic it becomes silly.

I don't see anything in this spell that goes off CL

[Tvtyrant]

I don't see anything in this spell that goes off CL

Book of Vile Darkness has "Area: 10-mile radius/level, centered
on caster" and level became caster level when the game updated to 3.5.

[jiriku]

Granted. The idea IS ludicrous. I was just curious if that's really how people read the Range/Area of Locate City.

I'm running an Underdark campaign, and if Locate City doesn't officially work in three dimensions, then I have to house-rule it to do-so. Otherwise, finding cities is going to be nearly impossible.

I use locate city bombs in my campaigns. They're typically crafted into single-use items, and the secrets of how to make them are kept by an ancient and secretive order of elves. They are essentially the nuclear weapons of the D&D world. Elven enclaves in dangerous areas keep one in a highly secured area as a self-destruct option in case of invasion, and the threat of their use keeps a number of warlike races well clear of the elves. Elven strike teams have been known to send scry-and-die hits against schools of wizardry in other nations that are trying to develop the bomb, in order to prevent proliferation. Really it makes for an outstanding set of plot hooks and campaign flavor.

[Tvtyrant]

I use locate city bombs in my campaigns. They're typically crafted into single-use items, and the secrets of how to make them are kept by an ancient and secretive order of elves. They are essentially the nuclear weapons of the D&D world. Elven enclaves in dangerous areas keep one in a highly secured area as a self-destruct option in case of invasion, and the threat of their use keeps a number of warlike races well clear of the elves. Elven strike teams have been known to send scry-and-die hits against schools of wizardry in other nations that are trying to develop the bomb, in order to prevent proliferation. Really it makes for an outstanding set of plot hooks and campaign flavor.

What spell level is the locate city bomb without metamagic reduction? Because there is a great glyph waiting to be used.

[Platymus Pus]

The part where Locate City affects a circle, circles are two-dimensional, and therefore the shortest distance out of Locate City's area is a fraction of an inch upward. That's the argument anyways.

You just Heighten it with metamagic then

.....I'm going to have to look that up....Pretty sure that's not how it works...but I'll still bring it up with Explosive spell at the table one time, just to see his reaction.

EDIT: There are no online references to any of these except the "Locate City bomb", which don't actually give any references to these except in name.

http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/22331104288/breaking-d-d-3-5-the-locate-city-nuke

I saw a spell (Ring of Repulsion) in an undoubtedly 3rd party book (Spells and Magic) that had an AoE with circular radius around you of 100 +10/CL ft, and allowed you to Bull Rush all enemies as though you had a 15 + caster level Strength, and was following them (without actually moving). But, it only does subdual damage, and only if bull rushed into a wall is the downside...but this reminded me of the Metamagic Feat: Explosive Spell.


Can I get the full name of that book?

[jiriku]

What spell level is the locate city bomb without metamagic reduction? Because there is a great glyph waiting to be used.

With a generous rules interpretation, it's 4th level, but it benefits strongly from being heightened as high as possible.

[Kraken]

The biggest problem that locate city bomb has, in my opinion, is that in order to be a valid target for flash frost, a spell must have both the cold descriptor and "affect an area." I've never seen a convincing argument that locate city affects anything, which if true I believe collapses all possible locate city related shenanigans.

Regardless of whether it's legal, locate city bomb was an amusing thing - when it was thought up. At this point it's pretty played out as a joke. Now whenever I see it I'm just reminded of rickrolls and every other overshared amusing thing that the internet runs into the ground.

As an actual suggestion for the OP, blizzard (Frostburn) has a 100'/level radius, and is only 5th level. Arguably the effects can't go past the 400+40/CL range of the spell, though, unless you want to treat the radius listed in the spell as an exception to a general rule about magic. Add in either quickened snowsight, or extended snowsight that you cast at the start of the day (it's hours/level), and you've likely crippled 95+% of the foes you'll face because they won't be able to see or hear you. If the rest of your party is unable to cope with the blizzard, have each one buy a level 2 pearl of power so you can also cast it on them. Or level 1 pearls of power and some lesser extend rods.