Archer Build

[Void Bovine]

Race Human

Classes: Ranger 2 scout 3 rogue 2 ranger 3 order of bow initiate 10

Feats: 1st lvl point blank shot + precise shot
2nd lvl combat style rapid shot
3rd lvl weapon focus (comp long bow)
6th lvl swift hunter (skirmish)
9th lvl swift ambusher (skirmish again)
12 lvl improved skirmish
15 + 18 are still in question

Favored enemies Undead+Constructs
what this build gets: evasion, sneak atk (minor), skirmish 5d6 (improved), ranged precision 5d8
those are all included on a single atk (2 with rapid shot)

[Curmudgeon]

Craven feat (Champions of Ruin, page 17) adds your character level in damage points to any sneak attack. Greater Demolition and Greater Undeath weapon augment crystals (Magic Item Compendium, pages 65 & 66) let you deal full sneak attack damage to Constructs and Undead, respectively, but the book doesn't say if those work on projectile weapons; ask your DM.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

what this build gets: evasion, sneak atk (minor), skirmish 5d6 (improved), ranged precision 5d8
those are all included on a single atk (2 with rapid shot)

You can't use that with Rapid Shot. Ranged Precision from Order of the Bow Initiate requires a standard action to use, and Rapid Shot requires a full attack to use. "A full-round action requires an entire round to complete. Thus, it can’t be coupled with a standard or a move action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullRoundActions)..."

Get rid of Order of the Bow Initiate, it's worthless. Get rid of Rogue, it's also worthless as you have no means of reliably enabling sneak attack (denying opponents their Dex bonus to AC), plus you can just get a Ring of Evasion if that's important to you.

Take exactly three levels of Scout, and exactly seventeen levels of Ranger, with Swift Hunter. Take Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot), so you can move to enable skirmish, then fire multiple shots, each of which benefits from your skirmish damage.

Note that you cannot use Ranged Precision with Greater Manyshot, as each of those takes its own separate standard action to activate, they cannot both be activated with the same standard action, so Order of the Bow Initiate is still worthless. If you intend to snipe per the Hide skill, you'll be taking a standard action to Greater Manyshot each round, and a move action to hide each round, leaving you only a 5-ft. step each round for actual movement, so you cannot benefit from skirmish while sniping, so Rogue is still worthless.

[AvatarVecna]

Okay, you've got a pretty decent build going (skirmish against undead/constructs, really good skirmish dice, etc.); here's a couple of things you might want to look into fixing:

1. Rapid Shot doesn't work like that.
You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a -2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.Bolded for emphasis; skirmish requires that you move at least 10 ft before attacking (and Improved Skirmish requires that you move 20 ft), while Ranged Precision requires you to spend a special standard action attack making a single attack in order to get its bonus damage. To be clear, both of those will work with one another, but neither works with Rapid Shot the way you've got it set up. Ranged Precision will never work with Rapid Shot, but Skirmish (and Improved Skirmish) can work if you somehow get enough free action movement to use them.

2. The above problem is usually dodged by using Greater Manyshot; it lowers the Manyshot penalty, while also allowing precision damage to apply to each arrow individually (making for a relatively powerful ranged combatant); unfortunately, Greater Manyshot, much like Ranged Precision, requires a special standard action to use, and thus does not work with Rapid Shot or Ranged Precision.

3. Unless you're taking Ambush Feats from Complete Scoundrel, Swift Ambusher is pointless when you already have Swift Hunter (unless you just really wanted a couple extra skill points and quick evasion, which Ranger 9 or Scout 5 gets anyway). I suggest you leave out the Rogue levels.

4. Order of the Bow Initiate is, quite frankly, a generally terrible PrC, and I suggest you avoid it: it doesn't work with Manyshot, it doesn't work with Rapid Shot, it doesn't even work with haste. It gives you bonus damage in exchange for taking away all but one attack per turn, and the damage it gives you in place of those attacks, even at the highest level, just isn't worth the levels invested in it. You're better off taking more Ranger levels: those advance BAB just as fast, advance your skirmish (which increases about as fast as Ranged Precision, but can work with Rapid Shot/Manyshot/Haste), advance your spellcasting, and gives bonus feats. Hell, you're better off taking a dip into Fighter for a couple quick bonus feats than you are taking levels in Order of the Bow Initiate.

Level
Race
Class
Skill Points Gained
Feats
Class Abilities
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will


1
Human
Scout 1
(8+Int mod)x4
Point Blank Shot; Precise Shot
Skirmish (+1d6); Trapfinding
0
0
2
0


2
Human
Scout 2
8+Int mod

Battle Fortitude +1; Uncanny Dodge
1
0
3
0


3
Human
Scout 3
8+Int mod
Weapon Focus (some bow)
Fast Movement +10 ft; Skirmish (+1d6/+1 AC); Trackless Step
2
1
3
1


4
Human
Ranger 1
6+Int mod

Bonus Feat: Track; Favored Enemy (Undead); Wild Empathy
3
3
5
1


5
Human
Ranger 2
6+Int mod

Combat Style: Rapid Shot
4
4
6
1


6
Human
Scout 4
8+Int mod
Swift Hunter
Bonus Feat: Improved Skirmish
5
4
7
1


7
Human
Scout 5
8+Int mod

Evasion; Skirmish (+2d6/+1 AC)
5
4
7
1


8
Human
Scout 6
8+Int mod

Flawless Stride
6
5
8
2


9
Human
Ranger 3
6+Int mod
Quick Reconnoiter
Bonus Feat: Endurance
7
5
8
3


10
Human
Ranger 4
6+Int mod

Animal Companion; Spellcasting
8
6
9
3


11
Human
Ranger 5
6+Int mod

Favored Enemy (Construct)
9
6
9
3


12
Human
Ranger 6
6+Int mod
Greater Manyshot
Combat Style: Manyshot
10
7
10
4


13
Human
Fighter 1
2+Int mod

Bonus Feat: Improved Critical (some bow)
11
9
10
4


14
Human
Fighter 2
2+Int mod

Bonus Feat: Improved Initiative
12
10
10
4


15
Human
Ranger 7
6+Int mod
Darkstalker (if not sneaky, Steadfast Determination)
Woodland Stride
13
10
10
4


16
Human
Ranger 8
6+Int mod

Swift Tracker
14
11
11
4


17
Human
Ranger 9
6+Int mod

-
15
11
11
5


18
Human
Ranger 10
6+Int mod
Deadeye
Favored Enemy (?)
16
12
12
5


19
Human
Ranger 11
6+Int mod

Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot
17
12
12
5


20
Human
Ranger 12
6+Int mod

-
18
13
13
6



This has a pretty good progression throughout your career. If your games have a tendency not to reach the higher levels (or if you just really want that ridiculous Improved Manyshot earlier), exchange Scout 5-6 to get to Ranger 9 faster; this makes Evasion kick in much later than normal, though, so just be prepared. Scout 4/Ranger X/Fighter 2 is a great Swift Hunter build, no matter how you slice it.A few notes about some other posts:

Skirmish can qualify for Craven, but doesn't benefit from it, so if you don't have Sneak Attack, it's not a good feat. The weapon crystals Curmudgeon mentioned are pretty good (and I'm pretty sure they apply to projectile weapons), but you can only have one of them on a weapon at any given time, and the higher level versions of the crystal only operate on a weapon of at least +X equivalent (IIRC; check the MIC to be sure).

Of more interest to you (I assume) will be the projectile weapon enchantment "Force", which bypasses the DR of any creature not immune to Force damage (IIRC; check the MIC to be sure).

[Darrin]

Classes: Ranger 2 scout 3 rogue 2 ranger 3 order of bow initiate 10


Friends don't let friends take Order of the Bow Initiate. The 3.5 version makes you worse at archery, mostly because Ranged Precision forces you to rely on standard attacks rather than full attacks.



what this build gets: evasion, sneak atk (minor), skirmish 5d6 (improved), ranged precision 5d8
those are all included on a single atk (2 with rapid shot)

Yes... a single attack. I'm not sure what you mean by Rapid Shot, but you can't combine that with Ranged Precision. Meanwhile, a well-built Swift Hunter can get 10d6 skirmish on every arrow, and is putting at least 5 arrows in the air, or 10+ with a Splitting bow.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Don't forget about the Energy Bow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a).

[Ruethgar]

Also note that you can call those energy arrows with Call Weaponry.

Fighter gives a free 5 feats at level one for Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot plus two prerequisite feats of your choice and still have the flaws and first level feats for flavor. Being that archery is such a feat intensive discipline it may be better to postpone the ranger. Of course this is more true for a thrower build than a bowman, but still.

[Void Bovine]

Yeah thinking of many shot even so a single shot that add 1d6+5d6+5d8 on to bow damage doesn't seem bad thanks all for the suggestions ill look into them!

[AvatarVecna]

Yeah thinking of many shot even so a single shot that add 1d6+5d6+5d8 on to bow damage doesn't seem bad thanks all for the suggestions ill look into them!

It's decent at first...until your BAB is high enough to combine with Greater Manyshot. With my build, your round-to-round actions at 13th level (assuming Dex 24 and +2 Force Longbow) will be moving 20 ft, then firing 3 arrows; each attack has a +16 to hit and total damage of 1d8+5d6+2 (ignoring DR), threatens a critical on a 19-20, and does 3d8+5d6+6 damage (ignoring DR) on a successful critical. This gets even more ridiculous when Dead Eye comes online; either you got it early on (if your DM ignores the errata), or you get it really late. If it's the first, then that's another 7 points of damage per hit, or 21 per crit.

Of course, that doesn't mean much if you're not hitting, right? But even ignoring the fact that a +16/+16/+16 is nothing terrible, there's still the fact that your spellcasting (and your allies) can give you additional bonuses, making it even more likely that you'll get that damage. With spells that grant extra damage per attack, spells granting bonus to attack rolls, and many others, you'll find that Greater Manyshot+Skirmish beats Ranged Precision+Skirmish at the levels where martials really need to shine.

[Troacctid]

One of the strengths of Swift Hunter builds is that they are good archers in combat, but they also have lots of versatility in a wide variety of situations, thanks to their many skill points and class skills, and, to a lesser extent, their Ranger spells. Possibly wild shape as well, if they're using that variant.

Order of the Bow Initiate throws all of that out the window and only advances your archery and nothing else. It's a highly min-maxy class. Listen? Nope. Hide? Move Silently? No, no stealth here. Handle Animal? Fraid not. What about social skills? Sorry, none. Search and Disable Device? Nope, hope you weren't planning on using that trapfinding ability. Use Magic Device? Ha ha, no. You get Spot, Knowledge (Religion), and Ride. Have fun.

That's not an inherently bad trade if you get something good in return. The problem is, Order of the Bow Initiate doesn't actually pay you back for what you're giving up. You might look at it and see a bunch of d8s and think, "Ooh, look at all that damage!" But in practice, you are losing 10 levels of skirmish damage, and it doesn't work with multiple attacks, so you end up maybe breaking even if you're lucky, or, more likely, actually doing less damage on average. Furthermore, the precision damage doesn't work on constructs or undead like skirmish damage would. And on top of everything else, there's a ridiculous feat tax to get in, including Rapid Shot of all things, which is just a slap in the face, really.

So basically you sacrifice everything for the promise of extra damage, and you don't actually end up getting extra damage. Laaaame.

On the upside, it's pretty easy to homebrew a fix for it. Just keep all the class features the same, but compress everything into 5 levels instead of 10, and remove the feat tax for entry. Bam, now it's totally viable.

[WhamBamSam]

I'm WhamBamSam, and this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?284283-Piggy-Knowles-Archer-Build-Thread) is (one of) my favorite thread(s) on this forum. Seriously, if you're looking to build any sort of archer, Piggy's build compendium is worth a read.

For something simple, the Swift Hunter recommendation is a good one. There's also several things to be said for a Factotum Archer rocking Greater Manyshot+Cunning Surge as well. As others have pointed out, OotBI is made of AIDS and failure.

[AvatarVecna]

One of the strengths of Swift Hunter builds is that they are good archers in combat, but they also have lots of versatility in a wide variety of situations, thanks to their many skill points and class skills, and, to a lesser extent, their Ranger spells. Possibly wild shape as well, if they're using that variant.

Seconding this. Archery is considered a very feat-intensive path; despite this, my build up there doesn't use flaws, and I still recommended two separate feats that are based purely on skill use. To be fair, both are awesome feats (IMO, at least), but I thought this build was good enough to not try and upgrade its archery skills any further. The build I provided up there can probably max out 6 or 7 good skills with a decent Int, which can make for a fantastic scout (maybe even a trapfinder). That takes the build as a whole from a high T4 DPR machine to a low-mid T3, which is a fantastic upgrade.

[Optimator]

OotBI? Ewww! Use Peerless Archer. Or more Scout/Ranger.