factotum archer help.

[sideswipe]

hello playground.

one of my players is playing a dark creature catfolk "factotum" archer type. fighter 2/"factotum" 8/deepwood sniper 2/order of the bow initiate 8 (3.0). using the factotum varient below.
the homebrew factotum varient (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?175468-Ancient-Spice-3-5-Base-Class-Artifact-and-Unique-Monster)

so far the feats are as such.
1- point blank shot
flaw - font of inspiration
flaw - charming the arrow (fey prereq ignored and adds rather then replaces)
fighter 1 - precise shot
fighter 2 - rapid shot
3 - weapon focus (houserule includes specialisation)
6 - manyshot (prerequisits waived)
9 - greater manyshot

starting level 10.

feats to still take -
font of inspiration x3

does anyone have any recomandations on changes / feats to take? the theme of the build needs to remain the same as does the factotum base.

[Snowbluff]

Monk (Decisive Strike) and Iaijutsu Master work better.

[sideswipe]

does anyone have any recomandations on changes / feats to take? the theme of the build needs to remain the same as does the factotum base.

bolded for emphasis. but thank you snowbluff. i was not there to do it myself :smallsmile:

[Snowbluff]

bolded for emphasis. but thank you snowbluff. i was not there to do it myself :smallsmile:

I'm not saying get rid of factotum. I'm get rid of OoTBI and Deepwood Sniper. You can nail them with very large amounts of damage on a single hit using an Elvencraft Longbow. You have Charming the Bow, so your CHa must be high, right? The bonus damage from Iaijutsu Master is a flat amount, which would be multiplied. Trigger Iai? You're a sniper, they are flatfooted, and you'll draw an arrow. Did they live? Take another Standard, and the bonus from Decisive Strike will still be present, and they will still be flatfooted for Iai. :smalltongue:

[sideswipe]

I'm not saying get rid of factotum. I'm get rid of OoTBI and Deepwood Sniper. You can nail them with very large amounts of damage on a single hit using an Elvencraft Longbow. You have Charming the Bow, so your CHa must be high, right? The bonus damage from Iaijutsu Master is a flat amount, which would be multiplied. Trigger Iai? You're a sniper, they are flatfooted, and you'll draw an arrow. Did they live? Take another Standard, and the bonus from Decisive Strike will still be present, and they will still be flatfooted for Iai. :smalltongue:

i do see how it works and its great as iai and desicive both don't say melee only. but as the DM i say no.... im already giving a free +2 LA and ignoring a few minor prerequisites. he has said archer. only archer, ootbi gives essentially shooting in melee.

[Sith_Happens]

ootbi gives essentially shooting in melee.

So does five-foot-stepping.

[WhamBamSam]

i do see how it works and its great as iai and desicive both don't say melee only. but as the DM i say no.... im already giving a free +2 LA and ignoring a few minor prerequisites. he has said archer. only archer, ootbi gives essentially shooting in melee.You can already get Arrow Mind from UMD, or if you must, from a level of Stalwart Sorcerer (which would also give you Weapon Focus as a bonus feat). OotBI is never, ever, ever worth it.

Also, Knowledge Devotion is always worth picking up on an Archer, especially a Factotum Archer. A level of Cloistered Cleric could potentially get you that and Point Blank Shot (though that might be a little awkward to fluff on a catfolk, as PBS comes from the Elf Domain), and maybe one other feat/domain power as well.

[sideswipe]

You can already get Arrow Mind from UMD, or if you must, from a level of Stalwart Sorcerer (which would also give you Weapon Focus as a bonus feat). OotBI is never, ever, ever worth it.

Also, Knowledge Devotion is always worth picking up on an Archer, especially a Factotum Archer. A level of Cloistered Cleric could potentially get you that and Point Blank Shot (though that might be a little awkward to fluff on a catfolk, as PBS comes from the Elf Domain), and maybe one other feat/domain power as well.

the OoTBI is the 3.0 one not the 3.5, are you saying its still never worth it? not playing high op, though mid op is what im aiming for.

also characters have to remain reasonably simple, as the players are quite new.

[WhamBamSam]

the OoTBI is the 3.0 one not the 3.5, are you saying its still never worth it? not playing high op, though mid op is what im aiming for.

also characters have to remain reasonably simple, as the players are quite new.Oh. I missed that. The 3.0 version is a lot better, though that is a ton of prereq feats even with your houserules mitigating the problem, and it's still not that great. If all you really want is to shoot while in melee, I'd still favor a level of Sorc and/or UMDing a wand of Arrow Mind. Hell, you could even put Divine Magician* on the Cloistered Cleric dip that I suggested and get a hold of Arrow Mind that way. Actually, yeah, the Cloistered Cleric dip seems like the way to go. I would personally consider Cloistered Cleric dips "mid-op," as I wouldn't feel bad about using them in an actual game, though you might feel differently.

Even with the 3.0 version, the only reason I'd use OotBI is if I had some plan for the Free Attack feature (ie, if some ally was engaging in some manner of Defensive Rebuke shenanigans ala Flip the Bird (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3558551) or something). The rest of it seems better acquired through other means. Ranged Sneak Attack is better than Ranged Precision, and since it says you treat it as a Rogue's Sneak Attack it probably even qualifies you for Craven, but I would still favor taking other classes instead.

*Some argue that Divine Magician doesn't play nicely with Cloistered Cleric due to the Divine Magician text saying you only get one domain. However, Cloistered Cleric says that you get the Knowledge Domain as an additional domain, so it seems to me that you should be able to apply Cloistered Cleric second and get the desired result. That is, a Cloistered Divine Magician Cleric should get one domain plus the Knowledge Domain, even though a Divine Magician Cloistered Cleric would only get one domain.

[Sith_Happens]

the OoTBI is the 3.0 one not the 3.5

Never mind then, carry on.


Even with the 3.0 version, the only reason I'd use OotBI is if I had some plan for the Free Attack feature

Did you miss the part at that same level where, if you already have Zen Archery, you get to add Wisdom and Dexterity to attack?

[WhamBamSam]

Did you miss the part at that same level where, if you already have Zen Archery, you get to add Wisdom and Dexterity to attack?That is sort of interesting, though it's tricky with the feat tax to enter the PrC and it's not part of the build plan in the OP. Even taking advantage of that, I'd still be a little skeptical of OotBI being worth 6 levels and all its prereqs unless Free Attack was being optimized somehow.