Veil of Undeath prevents disease

[Pippin]

Hey playground,


You gain many of the traits common to undead creatures. While the spell lasts, you have immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death, extra damage from critical hits, non-lethal damage, death from massive damage, ability drain, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, damage to physical ability scores, and any effect requiring a Fortitude save unless it is harmless or affects objects. You need not breathe, eat, or sleep.

Are characters affected by the above spell allowed to suffer from a specific disease if they want to? Like the +4 deformity bonus to INT granted by Warp Touch. If they can't, is there a way around this?

[Necroticplague]

Hey playground,



Are characters affected by the above spell allowed to suffer from a specific disease if they want to? Like the +4 deformity bonus to INT granted by Warp Touch. If they can't, is there a way around this?

Yes, though they'd have to let the Warp Touch through before they were certain of its results (and there are plenty of nasty results).

[Pippin]

Yes
Great, but how do we know that?

[Jack_Simth]

Great, but how do we know that?
It's in the Saving Throw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow) section of the magic overview, specifically the "Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw" segment:

A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.(Emphasis added)

The actual PHB section explicitly includes the example of an elf (immune to magical sleep effects) accepting a Sleep spell.

[Pippin]

Okay thank you.

So, taking veil of undeath after I got sick won't even cancel the symptoms of the disease for the duration of the spell, correct?

[ace rooster]

It's in the Saving Throw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow) section of the magic overview, specifically the "Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw" segment:
(Emphasis added)

The actual PHB section explicitly includes the example of an elf (immune to magical sleep effects) accepting a Sleep spell.



A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.


Bold for emphisis. Rules for magic do not generally generalise, (and seem to have been designed by people that didn't know the rules for the rest of the game) so we can't assume that we can give up special resistance to mundane or supernatural effects. If anything, specifically being able to suppress special resistance to spells implies that the general rule is that you can't (or why would it need to specify spells?).

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but the section you quoted doesn't apply. I would think DM call.

[Ashtagon]

Presumably, at some point the character has failed a saving throw against the warp touch disease. RAW doesn't give the PC a choice about rolling this save, as it isn't a spell. Next, the character is exposed to the veil of undeath spell. He can choose to fail the saving throw - if the spell had a saving throw. The spell has no saving throw, so there is nothing to fail a save for. The entire spell affects you.

Personally, I would rule that for the duration of the spell, you cannot gain any new diseases (so you'd be protected if, for example, fighting a mummy), or suffer any additional effects of any pre-existing disease, but any existing diseases remain, and pre-existing effects caused by a disease you already had (eg if it caused an arm to fall off or something) remain. Once the spell expires, you may be subject to additional saves to resist any pre-existing disease, if required.

[Zaq]

I don't think it works. It says you're immune to disease, so you're immune to disease. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

[Pippin]

So there's no clear-cut answer to this. I like Ashtagon's answer because that's what I wanted to hear, but also because there's something wise in it.

[SiuiS]

Okay thank you.

So, taking veil of undeath after I got sick won't even cancel the symptoms of the disease for the duration of the spell, correct?

It should, actually. An ongoing disease is an ongoing effect, and you become immune to the effect if you want. Warp touch permanently alters you though; it's a disease with an instantaneous duration, isn't it?

[Pippin]

it's a disease with an instantaneous duration, isn't it?
I believe that's right. So I would still retain the effect of the disease while under veil of undeath?

Actually I dislike it being immediate because I just realized it's not a continuous effect, so I'd lose the bonus to INT if I change forms with shapechange for example...

Q_Q

[Jack_Simth]

Bold for emphisis. Rules for magic do not generally generalise, (and seem to have been designed by people that didn't know the rules for the rest of the game) so we can't assume that we can give up special resistance to mundane or supernatural effects. If anything, specifically being able to suppress special resistance to spells implies that the general rule is that you can't (or why would it need to specify spells?).

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but the section you quoted doesn't apply. I would think DM call.

One of the rules in the DMG for how a DM should call a non-addressed situation is finding the closest similar situation that is addressed (page 6, right column, first bullet point):
Look to any similar situation that is covered in a rulebook. Try to extrapolate from what you see presented there and apply it to the current circumstance.

Unless you can find something that's a closer match? Yeah, it's supposed to apply.

[ace rooster]

One of the rules in the DMG for how a DM should call a non-addressed situation is finding the closest similar situation that is addressed (page 6, right column, first bullet point):

Unless you can find something that's a closer match? Yeah, it's supposed to apply.

Good point, and that suggests that the starting point for finding the effects should be with the disease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#disease) entry, which does cover it now that I look.



When a character is injured by a contaminated attack, touches an item smeared with diseased matter, or consumes disease-tainted food or drink, he must make an immediate Fortitude saving throw. If he succeeds...


Bold for emphisis, and "must" has a pretty clear meaning. Contrast this with the entry for spells.



Usually a harmful spell allows a target to make a saving throw to avoid some or all of the effect.


This does leave ambiguity, which is cleared up in the section on giving up saving throws for spells. The disease entry does not have this ambiguity though.