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xBlackWolfx
2015-04-08, 09:14 PM
I know, odd question, but its one I've been pondering for a while.

As I've admitted in the past, I've never actually had the opportunity to play a tabletop rpg. The closest I got was on a server I played on in Neverwinter Nights (the one from the early 2000s).

I own several pdfs, have several games I'm wanting to try, but I have been unable to do so. Only person that's interested at all is my sister, and she's too busy with college for rpgs sadly. Yeah, I don't really have a life. There is a pathfinder group around here, but one of the players is someone I do NOT have good history with, and I would prefer to avoid at all costs. Small town, only like 2,000 something people here. Although that might sound big, you do have a tendency to run into the same people over and over surprisingly often.

I took an interest in tabletop rpgs primarily to recapture my former experience on that nwn server. But rpg books are expensive, and I found I didn't like the way the rules looked. Which is why I spent so many years trying to develop my own system, even though I had no experience playing an actual tabletop rpg, and the only guidelines I had were from the 3.x srd, a lot of free rpgs, and a couple rpgs I bought (bash and DC adventures).

I really think I should just abandon this hobby. I've never been able to get into it, never will, since even if I get my sister to play I will have to be the DM since the closest thing to an rpg she's played is the legend of zelda.

Though I wonder whether or not I could re-capture my old experiences from that server through a tabletop game. I actually find it annoying having to roll dice or think about the mathematics of what I'm doing. I want to role-play, I don't want to do ****ing math. I understand that's a necessity with tabletop rpgs, but I find it just breaks the flow, if you understand what I mean.

As for why I don't just go play on another game? I could still re-join that old server, or join a server on NWN2, or play one of the D&D mmos. But I left that server bc even though I loved it, I hated the staff, who were all complete and utter *******s to put it lightly. They all acted like they were ten, and were highly abusive. They would alternate between tolerating anything, to banning people for pretty much anything. This would cause the population to crash though, so they would quit it and let everyone do w/e the **** they wanted, I recall even seeing one post from the server host actually apologizing for the recent banning spree and begging people to come back. I refuse to go back there, ever again. The last correspondence I had with them, was when I went prowling on their forums once (out of nostalagia, note that I'm permanently banned from the forums for insulting the staff one too many times), only discover they had a DM, with a slight variation of my old screen name! I was shocked at this, and actually emailed one of them asking how the hell she managed to avoid my ill-reputation. He claimed 'he knew in less than 2 seconds that he wasn't me, bc he was considerate, and I wasn't'. He then proceeded to insult me and claim I deserved it for calling him a complete and utter ******* (which he was, shocking the things he got away with). I refuse to have anything to do with them ever again.

So why don't I go elsewhere? Because its not the same. The server was highly liberal with the source material. You didn't have to know anything about the forgotten realms, or any setting for that matter, to play. They even let you play things that would get you banned on other servers, like eilistraeen drow. You could flipping goblins and kobolds if you so wanted, and you could walk around the main city without anyone caring. Even the good drow didn't suffer from any bigotry, despite the fact that there was also a population of llothite drow there (I actually played both good and bad drow, thought the only character I played for any length of time was a female cleric of lloth). No one else offered this much freedom, and required you to be highly loyal to the source material. Like I said, on some servers it was actually against the rules to play things like non-evil drow, and in some cases anything that wasn't lore-friendly.

Is tabletop gaming really for me? I kinda doubt it. Its been nothing but a waste of time and energy for me and I just want it to end. At this point I don't even care if I never play a tabletop game, I would like that, but I don't see that ever happening. I want a new hobby that will actually give me some enjoyment or at least some sort of reward. I have none, none at all. I play video games, even though honestly they're more stress for me than anything else, I play them mostly just to give myself something to do.

erikun
2015-04-08, 09:32 PM
There were servers which had problems with Eilistraee Drow? I mean, I could understand some people not liking them, but unless the server was devoted to a particular topic (i.e. conflict with the Red Wizards of Thay) I don't really see why they would be restricted. Especially not before D&D4, which is when they were (officially) removed from canon.

Other than that, what did you enjoy from playing Neverwinter Nights? I understand that you enjoyed it, but you didn't really specify why. Was it the roleplaying and the interaction with people? Was it being able to go out on quests and have fun as a group? You might be able to find something else to do, even if it isn't related to D&D, which gives you a similar experience.

Or to be honest, you could end up with just a pleasant memory and move on to other things. Some things just pass, and we don't get another chance to experience them.


A bit more on the topic at hand, the D&D RPG system itself does tend to be large, clunky, and unwieldy at times. I can understand not liking it or finding it awkward, especially depending on what you want to do with it. That's one of the big reasons I asked the questions above. If you're just looking for some roleplaying or some interesting adventures to go on, it might be more practical to look at another RPG system for what you want. Or even something else entirely - I know there are board games out there with random missions and expansions which might be more your thing, but only if that's something you are interested in.

It's a bit of an odd recommendation for a RPG board to make, I know, but if it's looking for something to interest you, it's worth a consideration.

xBlackWolfx
2015-04-08, 09:40 PM
What did I like?

Being able to play with something that was my own creation, with no real rules as to what I could make, outside what the game engine would allow (which was a lot, they even added in custom races like goblins and kobolds).

Adventuring I guess was another. I didn't have much in the way of freedom at the time, I was pretty much trapped in my own house day and day out. That server gave me an escape, the ability to run around and do awesome things, and be someone greater than myself. I'm not as restrained now, but I still find that fascinating.

The social interaction thing somewhat to, though honestly I'm not a very social person. Even when I play mmos I just ignore everyone. I don't join clans, or anything, I just grind the pve content. Only real place where I roleplay anymore is skyrim, but that's somewhat limiting because of the nature of the game (such as the highly linear quests, and the repetitive side-quests, like the one for the companions where you have to go out and kill an animal that got into someone's house. This quest can be given to you multiple times, but its always the same woman, and the same house, and for me the same animal, though I think it's supposed to change as you level).

erikun
2015-04-08, 10:04 PM
Ah, so setting up your own scenario and running through it yourself? That sounds like fun. I do wonder why you cannot simply continue to do so in Neverwinter Nights, though. I was under the impression that the online component only was relevant when connecting to another person's game.

If you are looking for something like that in D&D, I would probably direct you towards the Spelljammer setting, which is practially intended for this sort of thing. The whole concept behind Spelljammer is that there are limitless numbers of worlds out there, all of which different things happened and look completely different as a result. A world where Eiliastree Drow rule, a world run by golbins with a functional goblin society, and a world where a dead Neogi hive orbits a world of the Illithid, both dead from constant warring, are actual locations in the game. However, I'm not sure that the pen-and-paper D&D is really the thing you are looking for. The system works best with one DM and four additional players, and occasionally has difficulty when moving away from that. A single person both DMing and playing, or one DM and one player, tends to need some extra consideration to even work.

I will mention the HeroQuest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroQuest) board game, though. This is a board that you set up with monsters and doors and treasure, and run through scenarios in the books. You can also create your own scenarios, and run through them as well. And while I haven't played it, Descent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent:_Journeys_in_the_Dark) is apparently a more recent game with is very similar - and more importantly, available. I am not sure how well it would handle a single-player game, although Descent apparently plays just fine with two players (one running the monsters and one the heroes) if you are interested in crafting your own simple adventures to have someone play through.

It isn't quite as nice as the animated characters and settings you can make in NWN, I am sure, so I would recommend looking at a Youtube playthrough to be sure it's something that would be in your interest.

SowZ
2015-04-08, 10:23 PM
Doing math and rolling dice aren't essential parts of roleplaying. There are several games that focus nearly exclusively on the storytelling aspects, with loose rule structures and simple or no math.

Spore
2015-04-08, 10:25 PM
While D&D and Pathfinder are some of the most popular RPGs out there, they're also unsurprisingly the most rule-heavy systems you could go for. Heck, if the DM wishes you are bound to make a ridiculously easy Diplomacy check to call onto guards. Combat is really slow, social interactions can be substituted with skill checks (which is the entire point of roleplaying!) and adding fluff to your character comes at the cost of power. So in that case I wouldn't say TABLETOP rpgs are for you. Your should try story-driven RPGs. With or without combat focus, as you like it. Sadly I have almost no system mastery besides Pathfinder, but I thoroughly enjoyed "DSA light" (The Dark Eye but without checks for every move) as well as Call of Cthulhu.


The social interaction thing somewhat to, though honestly I'm not a very social person. Even when I play mmos I just ignore everyone. I don't join clans, or anything, I just grind the pve content.

I know how you feel. I was and still partly am an introvert like you are. And there is nothing wrong with it. But you have to have some social contacts. It really helped me after I failed my college career. Once or twice a week is fine. You don't have to live with the people. On a slightly different note, not having a problem with being alone and enjoying the solitude is absolutely okay. But there's should be a balance between sitting at home alone and meeting people.

Just to be clear: It's not important WHAT you play, do or watch with other people. Key components are you enjoying it and other people being there. Roleplaying helped me somewhat out of my selfdug hole.

Sajiri
2015-04-08, 10:30 PM
It sounds like you enjoy the D&D setting and themes, but not the rules. Thats kind of how I am. I own plenty of 3.5 and pathfinder books, and still buy them, despite having given up on the system long ago. I dont think I've ever had a good experience playing with either of those systems (mostly due to the lack of people).

My DM created his own relatively simple/easy to grasp system for us to play with that's highly flexible for that reason, and it's far more focused on roleplaying than the rules and dice. We've taken things straight out of D&D/PF (classes, races, etc) and just adapted them to his system, or we've done different things, like right now using it for a new futuristic/cyberpunk setting with just the two of us. Maybe you just need a different system and way of playing (we could do it in person but tend to use messengers online for convenience- music, images, documents and such)

Maybe trying to befriend some people on a RP server for different MMOs could help you meet people to game with too. I dont RP in mmo's but I like to go to those servers, and have met people also into D&D who then played with us outside of that MMO

xBlackWolfx
2015-04-08, 10:50 PM
I did watch an actual play of a pathfinder game on youtube not too long ago. I can't remember what its called. It was rather rp heavy, though at the same time they did mention rules every now and then. And they did play some wierd things. One of the characters was a half-orc rogue turned paladin. He was a paladin, who had a sneak attack and even the dirty-fighting feat. He also had a crowbar on his person. They also had one young character (whom the DM made the oldest guy play, of course), who was basically a shepard boy who guided them towards the dungeon they were gonna do. He wore a robe and wielded a quarter staff. They didn't mention his class, but since he had skill in tracking, I would guess a ranger. However, despite this they built him the same as they did the other three characters, so he was just as good at combat as they were (judging by the abilities they mentioned, they were probably all level 3, maybe 4), which got a few laughs out of the others when they had to defend a church against a group of zombies. Also, when they got to the necromancer, he ran right up to the necromancer and battled him on his own while his allies screwed around with the skeletons (even though taking out the necromancer would by default get rid of all his undead...) The other two characters were rogues, with very different builds. One was a more typical rogue, the other focused mainly on...w/e you call those exploding potions (he was an alchemist btw). The one rogue with the more normal build however certainly wasn't boring, infact he kinda stole the show. He was neutral evil, and his performance had a lot of not-so-nice humor in it.

Honestly, it looked like fun. But I know most groups aren't that awesome. Infact, the DM recorded himself running another game with another group of people. They however made obviously rediculous and cartoony characters, and most of them weren't very eloquent to put it lightly...I didn't even bother to watch that. I've also watched that one video where they demonstrate a 4e game, with that one guy who I believe is the CEO of WoTC, and really likes to run comical games. Kinda amusing, but not what I'm looking for.

I have recently been thinking about my own system which is heavily based off of D&D. Basically, I like the versality of third, but hate the complexity (i really really hate the complexity of pathfinder). I also like the simplicity of basic fantasy, but hate is lack of versatility and customization. So I decided, why not make a system that's the best of both worlds? That's easier than it might sound. For example, in pathfinder a barbarian has a huge number of rage powers that give them bonuses to various things. I would just say you get a bonus to any physical activity that doesn't require thought or focus or anything, and you get the 'howl' ability for free at like level 4 or something. Of course, you only have these while you're raging. I was kind of thinking of making my version of barbarian a kind of class where you can be overpowered, but only for a short period of time. Could be interesting?

goto124
2015-04-08, 10:53 PM
This forum has a Free-Form Roleplaying section! No rules, no numbers, just pure narrative freedom. Make up your own character and jump in!

It's how I pretty much got started on roleplay.

erikun
2015-04-08, 11:20 PM
I was kind of thinking of making my version of barbarian a kind of class where you can be overpowered, but only for a short period of time. Could be interesting?
I would be wary about this particular idea, because "short period of time" could end up meaning "only time it is relevant".
The barbarian idea as a whole does sound neat, though.

Also, if you are interested, there is the whole topic of retroclones. There are any number of people who have wanted to see their own changes with D&D, and so have created some rather popular systems. If you are looking for something more like AD&D 2nd edition (which Neverwinter Nights was based on) but with the variety of 3rd edition, or for something like D&D3/Pathfinder but with something more basic like AD&D, there's probably a system out there will similar leanings. Most of these retroclones can work with homebrew as well, so there's nothing stopping you from picking up a retroclone and still using your custom-created classes with it.

xBlackWolfx
2015-04-08, 11:49 PM
I would be wary about this particular idea, because "short period of time" could end up meaning "only time it is relevant".
The barbarian idea as a whole does sound neat, though.

Also, if you are interested, there is the whole topic of retroclones. There are any number of people who have wanted to see their own changes with D&D, and so have created some rather popular systems. If you are looking for something more like AD&D 2nd edition (which Neverwinter Nights was based on) but with the variety of 3rd edition, or for something like D&D3/Pathfinder but with something more basic like AD&D, there's probably a system out there will similar leanings. Most of these retroclones can work with homebrew as well, so there's nothing stopping you from picking up a retroclone and still using your custom-created classes with it.

Uhh...I said the nwn from the 2000s. Not the mmo that was released when I was a child!

The one i'm referring to was apparently released by bioware in 2002, according to wikipedia. I know for a fact that game used a slightly modified version of 3.0. Some skills were changed or removed, and the attributes were determined with a point-buy method, though you still rolled for hit points (well, after level 3 anyway, up to level 3 the engine just counted it as if you had rolled the maximum possible on the hp dice each time).

erikun
2015-04-08, 11:54 PM
Neverwinter Nights was based on D&D3? Huh, it looks like it is. I guess I was under the impression that it was based on AD&D2. I guess I've just associated NWN with Baldur's Gate - with both being made by BioWare around the same time - and since Baldur's Gate was AD&D, I'd assumed that NWN was the same.

Sorry about my confusion, then.

BayardSPSR
2015-04-09, 12:24 AM
Sounds like you want an RPG (or failing that a play-by-post game) that doesn't use the D&D rules. Can't blame you; I hate the D&D rules myself.

Given that you live in a small town, I'd recommend seeing if you can find someone to run a play-by-post game on this forum.

Be sure you talk about what kind of game you're interested in before it starts; that will help you avoid misunderstandings about tone (I say this because it sounds like you want to avoid comical games).

One thing's for sure - they way you talk about them, tabletops RPGs are definitely for you. It's finding a game that's the hard part.

JAL_1138
2015-04-09, 05:40 AM
A more rules-light system like FUDGE or FATE might be up your alley. There's not a lot of math to them, not many little fiddly bits to memorize like with 3.PF. They're infinitely flexible and versatile, too.

D&D 5e is worth a look if you want a simpler D&D; it's what you get if you strip most of the unnecessary complexity out of 3rd but keep a lot of customizability. In play, you'll practically never need to reference the rules after a session or two if a player, and rarely need more than monster stats and the info off a decent DM screen as a DM.

Maglubiyet
2015-04-09, 07:55 AM
Have you checked out Roll20? Online tabletop games with virtual maps, dice rolls, with live video/audio to the other players.

It gives you the realtime action of playing. You don't need to put yourself on webcam if you don't want, but the audio helps.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-04-09, 08:02 AM
Have you checked out Roll20? Online tabletop games with virtual maps, dice rolls, with live video/audio to the other players.

It gives you the realtime action of playing. You don't need to put yourself on webcam if you don't want, but the audio helps.
Roll20 is a great option for tabletop RP when you can't find a local group. I recommend it.

In terms of games, I'll second the recommendation to look into 5th Edition, and you would also probably enjoy 13th Age (http://www.13thagesrd.com/).

For me, 13th Age captures the vibrancy and variety of D&D without the rules heft. In fact, one of its selling points is the One Unique Thing: each character has something about them which is unique to them, such as "I have seen the face of the Prince of Shadows" or "I know the hour of my death". It was a system built by key designers of 3E and 4E to capture what they liked about D&D, independent of Wizards' decisions.

Jay R
2015-04-09, 12:21 PM
The primary tool to make RPGs fun is a set of friends who share your interest in certain kinds of stories. If a half-dozen people enjoy each other's company, and like reading Tolkien, Martin, and other fantasy novels, then that group of people might make a good gaming group.

There may be other ways to make it work, but I've never tried them.

Group of compatible friends with compatible interests first. RPG second.

JAL_1138
2015-04-09, 01:20 PM
The primary tool to make RPGs fun is a set of friends who share your interest in certain kinds of stories. If a half-dozen people enjoy each other's company, and like reading Tolkien, Martin, and other fantasy novels, then that group of people might make a good gaming group.

There may be other ways to make it work, but I've never tried them.

Group of compatible friends with compatible interests first. RPG second.

Joining a group (VTT, PbP, freeform PbP) via forum can work well. Joining a group at a game store and making friends that way can work, though having come from a very small town (pop. ~5000) in rural Bumblescum myself, I feel the OP's pain there. If there's any place at all that even sells materials there, it's likely to be a bookstore that has a PHB stuck on a back shelf somewhere or a videogame store that *maybe* carries some M:tG and Yu-Gi-Oh cards too--not really an FLGS as you'd think of one, but they *might* have a bulletin board or know somebody who DMs and is looking for players.

I second the recommendation from another poster to try the freeform PbP here on GitP, too. Never looked at it myself, but nearly all of the people I've talked to here since joining are good folks, and at the very, very worst, fiercely opinionated--only really encountered one jerk the whole time I've been here, who was banned a good while back and shall remain nameless. Although on occasion people who were merely very (very) opinionated (IMO) have had the banhammer dropped, too...but on the whole these are good forums, of good people, with good mods, so I feel pretty confident recommending the PbP sight-unseen.

Engine
2015-04-09, 09:16 PM
Look, you used a lot of cuss words to describe your previous experience with RPGs. Let me tell you one thing: while playing RPGs, there's a good chance you will meet people that will anger you, insult you, lie to you and so on. So my advice is: don't take the game too seriously.

You said that you insulted one of the people you played with many times for game-related reasons. It's not the kind of behaviour that could help you find a group of people to play with - if you were at my table, I would've asked you to leave even if you were right. Another thing, RPGs are a niche hobby: sooner or later you will know almost everyone that plays in your proximity, and almost everyone will know you. If you insult people at the gaming table the word will spread and there's a chance you won't find another group for the time being.

xBlackWolfx
2015-04-09, 09:42 PM
Look, you used a lot of cuss words to describe your previous experience with RPGs. Let me tell you one thing: while playing RPGs, there's a good chance you will meet people that will anger you, insult you, lie to you and so on. So my advice is: don't take the game too seriously.

You said that you insulted one of the people you played with many times for game-related reasons. It's not the kind of behaviour that could help you find a group of people to play with - if you were at my table, I would've asked you to leave even if you were right. Another thing, RPGs are a niche hobby: sooner or later you will know almost everyone that plays in your proximity, and almost everyone will know you. If you insult people at the gaming table the word will spread and there's a chance you won't find another group for the time being.

And the one girl I mentioned I had bad history with? She's was spreading lies about me being a manipulative and outright evil person. And no, I did NOTHING to provoke that. So if she plays D&D, its safe to assume my reputation with the local gaming community is already destroyed anyway. Such is my luck.

Engine
2015-04-09, 10:04 PM
And that's why you should always be civil with your fellow players. If you're always nice at the gaming table, people will remember that.
But if you insult someone at the gaming table and than people hear a rumor about you being a douchebag? Well, there's a good chance they would believe that.

So I'll repeat my advice: be civil, be nice, remember it's just a game so there's no need to make enemies over it.

xBlackWolfx
2015-04-09, 10:07 PM
I said i did nothing to provoke her. She was just a sadist. I said nothing insulting, did nothing wrong to her. And she just decided to completely **** over my life. Some friend she was...

And I think I'll just stop looking at this thread, obviously devolving into another troll-fest.

Engine
2015-04-09, 10:11 PM
I said i did nothing to provoke her. She was just a sadist. I said nothing insulting, did nothing wrong to her. And she just decided to completely **** over my life. Some friend she was...

And I think I'll just stop looking at this thread, obviously devolving into another troll-fest.

Uhm, pal. I'm not trolling you. You said that you were banned from some gaming forum because you insulted one of the mods more than once.
I'm saying that this kind of behaviour will make more difficult for you to find a good gaming group, especially if someone is spreading rumors about you.

Sajiri
2015-04-09, 10:57 PM
I said i did nothing to provoke her. She was just a sadist. I said nothing insulting, did nothing wrong to her. And she just decided to completely **** over my life. Some friend she was...

And I think I'll just stop looking at this thread, obviously devolving into another troll-fest.

I dont think Engine was trolling you :smallconfused: maybe being a bit harsh in advice, but not trolling.

If you did nothing wrong, and this person just decided to manipulate and attack you for no reason, well, I'm sure other people would see what kind of person she is. If you are nice and polite and civil, people will see what kind of person you are regardless of what someone else (who doesnt sound very likeable) has said about you.

If your response as soon as something sounds even slightly negative about you is to say NOT LISTENING ANYMORE and accuse someone trying to give genuine advice of being a troll, well, that might make it a bit hard to meet people to game with. People are people, will say some things sometimes that to them might not sound or be intended at all bad, and they arent going to be happy if that's your response