Fighter Subclass: Templar

[ZenBear]

I want to make a divine caster subclass for Fighter, but for the life of me I can't figure out any fitting class features that don't step on the toes of the Cleric, Paladin or EK.

The Templar is a warrior who swears his sword to the service of a deity. He is not a leader like a Paladin, he is a humble soldier of the faith. His devotion gains him the favor of his chosen deity and that power is granted in the form of spells and... what else?

Casting progression is the same as EK obviously, and I think I would limit the available spells to a custom list containing only combat and healing spells taken from Cleric and Paladin lists with minimal utility.

I think Channel Divinity should be excluded to distance the Templar from the Cleric and Paladin. I would like to give it something akin to the Aura of Saving Throws but only for the Templar itself, though the power of that ability would need to be buffed somewhat to compensate.

Obvious bread-and-butter spells would be Bless and Elemental Weapon. The inability to ever gain 5th level spells for Raise Dead and the like is a major weakness that compensates for the power of such strong Concentrations spells on a Fighter with Constitution save proficiency and 4-9 attacks per round.

Perhaps the class features where War Magic etc appear for EK could simply be the Domain Features of whatever deity the Templar serves? Again, really stepping on the Cleric's toes, but being a 1/3 caster would it really be a problem?

I really need help with this... :smallconfused:

[Wolfsraine]

It really sounds like you just want to play a paladin / warrior gestalt build. You should talk to your DM to possibly run a gestalt campaign. You can always reskin the EK to divine and re-flavor its existing abilities to be more divine.

Everything you want basically exists already. Is multiclassing an option? 15 fighter, 5 cleric gives you up to 3rd level spells...

[ZenBear]

It really sounds like you just want to play a paladin / warrior gestalt build. You should talk to your DM to possibly run a gestalt campaign. You can always reskin the EK to divine and re-flavor its existing abilities to be more divine.

Everything you want basically exists already. Is multiclassing an option? 15 fighter, 5 cleric gives you up to 3rd level spells...

I like the Paladin, but I don't want to be a Charisma caster. I like the Cleric, but I want to be melee focused over spells, which even the War Cleric doesn't deliver. What I propose is essentially a "reskin" of the EK to divine but I don't think the EK features make sense with divine spells (SF being the only attack cantrip for Clerics). I considered multiclassing 12 Fighter/8 Cleric but I don't like how it spreads out the progression of both melee competence and spell and feat/ASI progression. I considered just asking my DM to let me play a Paladin with Wisdom replacing Charisma, but I don't see any way to convince him that I'm not just munchkining for a superior stat (Wisdom being more powerful than Charisma in saves and skills). I don't know how gestalting works and it doesn't seem likely to be any simpler than making a custom subclass.

With the Custom Classes PDF out it's hardly a ridiculous consideration to want a custom subclass. By your own logic anyone who wants to play a 1/3 arcane caster Fighter should just multiclass Fighter/Wizard, but we have the EK instead. Why can't I have my Templar?

I'm looking for help with making this subclass a reality. I don't need people telling me to do something else.

[Flashy]

I considered just asking my DM to let me play a Paladin with Wisdom replacing Charisma, but I don't see any way to convince him that I'm not just munchkining for a superior stat (Wisdom being more powerful than Charisma in saves and skills).

This actually doesn't seem unreasonable. Wisdom skills aren't all that superior to charisma (unless your game is literally nothing but dungeon crawling) and paladins are already proficient in both saves. You'll have two, maybe three more points in your wisdom save than you would otherwise which is not at all a big deal. Plenty of classes have overlap between their primary stats and proficiency in strong saves. I'd honestly just ask him, it seems way less difficult than trying to sell an entire homebrew subclass.

If you really want to do a homebrew subclass I'd probably just take eldritch knight and substitute wisdom with the cleric spell list.

[D.U.P.A.]

Wisdom saving throws are way more common with Charisma, also the skills are more important, especially because of Perception, which is used in every situation. You can still do your 'subclass' by multiclassing into cleric.

[rollingForInit]

I agree with Flashy. I convinced my DM to let me play a Bard/Warlock who uses Intelligence for spellcasting.

Try to come up with some fluff reason for how he uses his insight, intuition and divine understanding to cast spells instead of his force of will. That might make it easier for you. For instance, when I convinced my DM for the Int-base Warlock/Bard, I said that the character started out as a Bard and disliked songs, but loved riddles, puzzles and similar intellectual forms of entertainment, and studied Words of Power that could magically affect the world.

Also consider any potential munchkin builds or multiclassing you could do with Wisdom as your primary score, and ensure the DM that you won't be going for that. Wisdom isn't a broken stat, after all. Having a few extra points in Perception really won't break anything, and you'll have worse charisma skills instead, and they are useful as well.

[DanyBallon]

Like Eldritch Knight are limited to Abjuration and Evocation spells from the wizard's spell list, I'd say that Templar should be limited to Enchantment and Evocation spells from the cleric's spell list. This will give you access to Bane, Bless, Cure Wounds, Healing Words, Spiritual Weapon, etc.

The problem here is that there's no 4th level spell for these two schools. Maybe add Abjuration as well. And make them having to learn their spell (to fit with the EK Template) this will prevent from having access to too many spells.

[Person_Man]

Although it can obviously vary dramatically based on your individual build, my personal observation has been that the Paladin and Fighter are remarkably similar in actual game play.

Most turns in most combats, both the Fighter and the Paladin will be using the Attack Action with a melee weapon.

Action Surge and Smite+Smite Spells basically have the same outcome (more damage - yes I know Action Surge can be used for lots of things and Paladins have other spells. But in most cases, most players usually just use them to boost damage).

Hit points and AC are basically the same.

Their Skills and out of combat utility are basically the same. Paladins typically have higher Cha, but there's nothing stopping a Fighter from investing in Cha and getting the same results.

Starting around mid-levels Paladins get better defenses (via Auras), whereas Fighters get better offense (subclass stuff and Extra Attack 2).

But overall, the actual stuff that players do with them in real games are remarkably similar.

So I wouldn't get too worked up over small simulationist differences. The game is going to play pretty much the same for you regardless of if you go with one or the other or some homebrew subset.

[Mandragola]

I'm torn on this because honestly I think tou could make a good Templar by being a champion fighter.

I think that the problem with an EK using wisdom to cast is the same as a paladin using wisdom to cast: wisdom is an awesome stat. Does it actually make sense that your Templar is incredibly perceptive? I would argue that it doesn't.

Accordingly, I'd make charisma the casting stat for your re-skinned EK and then actually consider using the paladin spell list rather than the cleric one.

An alternative might be a different type of paladin oath - one which swore so further the aims of a specific God. Then maybe they could pick up that clerical domain, rather than the oath's normal features.

[DanyBallon]

I'm torn on this because honestly I think tou could make a good Templar by being a champion fighter.

I think that the problem with an EK using wisdom to cast is the same as a paladin using wisdom to cast: wisdom is an awesome stat. Does it actually make sense that your Templar is incredibly perceptive? I would argue that it doesn't.

Accordingly, I'd make charisma the casting stat for your re-skinned EK and then actually consider using the paladin spell list rather than the cleric one.

An alternative might be a different type of paladin oath - one which swore so further the aims of a specific God. Then maybe they could pick up that clerical domain, rather than the oath's normal features.

Does it make sense that clerics and druid are incredibly perceptive? I think it will be as easy to justify a templar being percetive, as it is to do so for a cleric, he is blessed by the gods...

As for using Paladin spell list, I'd try to keep away because smite should be a unique ability to Paladin and they are the only one with access to smite spells.

[Mr.Moron]

I'm not sure there is a ton of meaningful space to explore with this. At least in terms of "Divine Magic User" + "Fighting Prowess" paladin already covers the "Mostly fighter" and war cleric and the like cover the "Mostly Caster" end of things. At the end of they you're just going to make something feels like paladin-lite or a really crappy cleric. The two existing classes just cover the Fighting + Divine spells so well there isn't any room for this idea to breathe at all.

I think a far more interesting place to go with this concept is to go with Divinely-inspired fighter with minor psuedo-magic abilities, but no actual spells.

[Yagyujubei]

if you really wanted to work it from the ground up, it might be cool to build this idea on top of warlock casting rules. like you have a warrior who has been granted a seriously limited amount of casting, but like you said could have access to his two or three bread and butter spells most whenever he needs them. offering 2 spell slots that scale from 1st to thrid level depending upon PC level, and one 4th "channel divinity"esque casting that follows mystic arcanum rules at like level 18.

aside from that you could grant some anointed knight type abilities like holy sight, call to battle, unbroken flesh, or sacred flesh which kinda feel like invocations are in 5e.

sacred flesh seems like it would fit the bill perfectly. I think of templars like in DA, as warriors trained in battle against mages, so a spell resistance component seems appropriate.

so maybe something like:

Spellcasting: (VERY limited selections from paladin/cleric lists)
-Cantrips: Spare the Dying and Light
-two short rest recharge spell slots. lvl 1 from 3-7, lvl 2 from 8-12, lvl 3 from 12 up
-1 long rest casting of a 4th or lower spell at level 18


aside from that features to consider would be:

-Sacred flesh: spell resistance like paladin but without the aura, or something like feindish resilience that warlock gets

-Sanctuary: like monk's tranquility feature, on a long rest you get the sanctuary spell effects until next long rest

-Holy sight: Blind fight

-grabbing something similar to the light clerics warding flare ability

-something similar to dark ones own luck but refluffed to be divine

-1/long rest dispel magic effect that can't be counterspelled



i dunno, stuff like that.

[dev6500]

I don't really see a problem with homebrewing a templar class based on fighter. Alternatively, you could just refluff a paladin.

In my opinion, first rule when making a class is to not worry about stepping on other classes toes. The fact that a Templar might overlap a little with a cleric in a few abilities doesn't change the fact that clerics get better spell progression. If your templar overlaps with paladin, well multiple martial classes overlap with each other so no big deal.

In regards to implementing your idea. Start with EK and change the casting stat to wisdom or charisma, change the spell list to be similar to paladin or cleric. If you do not think the EK archetype abilities match your templar concept, I would go with the domain idea. I am not sure that you want to give aura of protection to the templar. The charisma bonus to all saves is pretty powerful and adding it to a fighter might unbalance the class. Perhaps a better alternative would be to give the templar proficiency in Wisdom saving throws after a certain level to represent them reaching a certain level of faith.

The important thing is to work on the fluff or flavor of your homebrew class. The more distinct and compelling you make the class concept, the more worthwhile the option becomes to a DM or player.

[mrumsey]

I think this has really interesting paths. You could easily create 'Devotions' and create something similar to Invocations for the fighter. Keep them mostly limited to 1/rest (or long rest) and utility abilities (i.e. light), and it could be just fine. The actual archetype abilities could then be more interaction/survivability based to give a more utilitarian holy feel to the standard offensive martial stereotype we are familiar with.

Sample devotions:

Divine Weapon: Templar lvl 5, Choose an element when you pick this devotion. 1/rest, cast elemental weapon using the chosen element.
Weapon of Wrath: templar lvl 5, 1/rest the templar can cast spiritual weapon.
Holy Light: The templar can cast light at will.
Holy Illuminatin: Templar lvl 6, 1/long rest the templar can cast daylight.
Restore Spirit: Whenever the templar uses his second wind ability, one ally within 10 feet also gains the benefits. (This could also be an archtype ability).

*Disclaimer* I have no stance on the balance of these abilities, just spitballing at work.

[Joe the Rat]

Yeah, cooking up another Paladin Oath could get you there.

But sometimes you just want to be less Holy, and more Warrior. Or you want cantrips too. Or you want something so you can pick up more than two fighter levels without totally wasting your spell progression for cleric, which could be done with the standard EK and judicious selection of thematically appropriate (and no attack roll/DC) wizard spells. Tell me shield doesn't fit beautifully for a defender of the faith.

But for straight up "Use cleric, not wizard" EK switch...
Spells: Evoc, Enchant, and Abjur seem pretty core. Evoc/Ench has gives you a slightly different feel than the standard Wiz load. You have the "one of choice" options for flexibility.
To give it a more diety-focused flavor, consider adding the domain spells to your learnable options. I'm tempted to say you have domain spells and a really focused list (which might not include healing, but should include holy weapon) for your menu.

Regarding features: Weapon Bond and the Cast 'n' Smash abilities still work quite well. Or at least make sense for the class (spare the dying, smack the guy that dropped your buddy), effectiveness aside.


...so pretty much what everyone else has already suggested.

[D-naras]

I'll toss a few ideas for a subclass:

Spellcasting: Like an EK using Wisdom. I leave the spell list up to you.

Divine Resurgence: At 3rd level, when you use Second Wind, you add your Wisdom modifier to the total hit points you recover and you may expend 1 spell slot and choose a number of creatures equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) within 60ft that you can see. Those creatures are also healed for the same amount.

Divine Surge: Starting at 7th level, when you use Action Surge, you regain 1 expended spell slot of first level. At 13th level, you can regain 1 expended slot of second level if you wish and at 19th level, you can regain an expended 3rd level slot instead. Once you use this ability, you must spend a long rest before you can reuse it.

Please the deities: At 10th level, when you score a critical hit, you can cast a spell with a duration of concentration as a bonus action, even if it has a longer casting time. The spell must include you in its targets and it must not directly harm its targets.

Divine Mettle: At 15th level, whenever you lose your concentration on a spell due to damage, the spell remains active for an additional number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier or its duration runs out or if you cast another spell with a duration of concentration, whichever comes first.

Tireless vigil: At 18th level, whenever you use your Divine Resurgence ability, all creatures affected gain temporary hit points equal to the hit points restored. While those temporary hit points remain, they have Advantage on all Saving throws.

[DanyBallon]

Ok, got some time to think about it while lunching:

Fighter Archetype: Templar

Your devotion to your deity guide you in battles.

Spellcasting Spell progression as the Eldritch Knight. Spellcasting ability score is Wisdom. You may select spells from the Abjuration, Enchantment and Evocation school from the Cleric spell list. The spell you learn at 8th, 14th and 20th level can be from any school of magic on the clreric spell list.

Divine Domain At 3rd level, choose a domain associated to your deity, you can add the domain spell list to the list of spell available for you to choose from.

Weapon Bound At 3rd level you get Weapon Bound as the EK abilty (PHB p.75)

War Magic At 7th level you get War Magic as the EK ability (PHB p.75)

Baneful Strike At 10th level, your indefectible convition in your deity affects the morale of your opponents when you hit them. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, the creature must make a Charisma saving throw, if it fails, the creature must roll 1d4 and substract the result from its next attack or saving throws.

or

Divine Strike At 10th level, you get the Divine Strike or Potent Spellcasting ability from the domain you choosed. Divine strike doesn't improves at 14th level.

Divine Mettle At 15th level, whenever you lose your concentration on a spell due to damage, the spell remains active for an additional number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier or its duration runs out or if you cast another spell with a duration of concentration, whichever comes first.

Improved War Magic At 18th level you get Improved War Magic as the EK ability (PHB p.75)


As you can see it's pretty much a Divine Eldritch Knight, I did this on purpose, as many abilities of the EK fit the Templar concept. Baneful Stike is a rebranded Eldritch Strike with the effects of a Bane spell (you'd guess by the name :smallbiggrin:) and thanks to D-naras, I've been able to add a unique ability to the Templar which fit perfectly the concept of a warrior whose devotion to his deity let him keep his focus in the middle of a fight.

edit: I realised that except for fluff, there is nothing that ties the Templar to its deity. I add the ability to choose your spell from one domain spell list associated to your deity.

[Submortimer]

if you really wanted to work it from the ground up, it might be cool to build this idea on top of warlock casting rules. like you have a warrior who has been granted a seriously limited amount of casting, but like you said could have access to his two or three bread and butter spells most whenever he needs them. offering 2 spell slots that scale from 1st to thrid level depending upon PC level, and one 4th "channel divinity"esque casting that follows mystic arcanum rules at like level 18.

aside from that you could grant some anointed knight type abilities like holy sight, call to battle, unbroken flesh, or sacred flesh which kinda feel like invocations are in 5e.

sacred flesh seems like it would fit the bill perfectly. I think of templars like in DA, as warriors trained in battle against mages, so a spell resistance component seems appropriate.

so maybe something like:

Spellcasting: (VERY limited selections from paladin/cleric lists)
-Cantrips: Spare the Dying and Light
-two short rest recharge spell slots. lvl 1 from 3-7, lvl 2 from 8-12, lvl 3 from 12 up
-1 long rest casting of a 4th or lower spell at level 18


aside from that features to consider would be:

-Sacred flesh: spell resistance like paladin but without the aura, or something like feindish resilience that warlock gets

-Sanctuary: like monk's tranquility feature, on a long rest you get the sanctuary spell effects until next long rest

-Holy sight: Blind fight

-grabbing something similar to the light clerics warding flare ability

-something similar to dark ones own luck but refluffed to be divine

-1/long rest dispel magic effect that can't be counterspelled



i dunno, stuff like that.

This is a great idea. I'm gonna make this happen. A temple knight who's not so much a spellcaster as he has a few, specific abilites that let him defend his church. Very defensive focused.

Edit: I got it. This will be a Remake of the ToB Crusader. That where I can pull the abilities from.

[Galen]

What's wrong with just Eldritch Knight variant who draws his spells from the Cleric and/or Paladin list and has Wisdom-based casting?

[DanyBallon]

What's wrong with just Eldritch Knight variant who draws his spells from the Cleric and/or Paladin list and has Wisdom-based casting?
Because, giving full access to the cleric's spell list is much more than the limited selection that EK have on the wizard's spell list. And as far as giving access to the Paladin's spell list, it's true that it's more limited, but this will give access to the smite spells which are the signature of the Paladin. Also for fluff reason, it makes sense to have abilities tied to a deity.

Have a look at the templar Fighter archetype I posted earlier. It's pretty much an EK but with a few divine twists.

[Galen]

Because, giving full access to the cleric's spell list is much more than the limited selection that EK have on the wizard's spell list. And as far as giving access to the Paladin's spell list, it's true that it's more limited, but this will give access to the smite spells which are the signature of the Paladin. Also for fluff reason, it makes sense to have abilities tied to a deity.

Have a look at the templar Fighter archetype I posted earlier. It's pretty much an EK but with a few divine twists.

Well, I didn't say full spell list. A subset could work.

[Yagyujubei]

just throwing it out there, you straight up cant give a warrior access to divine strike. that ability is balanced to a cleric that can make 1 or possibly 2 attacks in a turn, not 8.

especially since it's not a spell and could be stacked with elemental weapon which was a spell the OP was interested in having as part of the class. elemental weapon itself is incredibly strong in the hands of a warrior, but at least it isnt ALWAYS up like divine strike would be.

consider that a warrior would be getting a potential 4d8 on every attack and 8d8 during an action surge. that's equivalent to a lvl 3 smite every attack for free.

suuuuuper broken.

Not that I mind broken builds, and my homebrews always skew pretty darn strong, that said heres a bit more fleshing out for my Warlock chassis Templar, I'm gonna borrow divine resurgence because I really like it:

Fighter subclass: Templar - Templars are warriors whose devotion, fervor, and long service of their god have gained them some measure of divine protection in battle. While not bound to a specific oath, these warriors fight in the name of good and fear nothing. Templars are usually battle hardened men and women and women who run headlong into danger to protect the week and the righteous.

level 3-Spellcasting:(WIS) at level 3 a Templar gains two spells slots that recharge upon a short rest with the following spells available, like other divine casters these spells are always prepared, but you must have a spell slot of adequate level to cast them. at level 8 these spell slots become level 2, at level 12 they become level 3.:

Cantrips:Light, Spare the Dying
1st:Bless, Cure Wounds, Compelled duel, Protection from evil and good
2nd:Aid, Spiritual Weapon, Zone of Truth, Prayer of Healing
3rd:Crusaders Mantle, Daylight, Elemental Weapon, Beacon of Hope

level 3-Anointed Weapon: Additionally, during a long rest, you may anoint your weapon or shield. An anointed weapon or shield may be used as a divine focus and cannot be disarmed.

level 7-Minor Devotion: at level 7 you may choose from a list of devotions and gain its effects. you gain another minor devotion at level 12.

level 10-Divine Resurgence: At 3rd level, when you use Second Wind, you add your Wisdom modifier to the total hit points you recover and you may expend 1 spell slot and choose a number of creatures equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) within 15ft that you can see. Those creatures are also healed for the same amount. The area of effect becomes 30 feet at 18th level.

level 15-Anointed Flesh: You gain resistance to necrotic damage, and you maximum life total can't be reduced.

level 18-Major Devotion:At 15th level you may choose one devotion from a list of Major Devotions and gain it's effects.


possible devotions:
Minor:
Faith of the Blind: You no longer need to see your enemies to fight to your full ability, you gain the blind fight power.
Faith in the Light: Once per long rest, you may cast the Daylight spell without expending a spell slot.
Tranquil faith: Once per long rest, you may cast the Sanctuary spell without expending a spell slot.
Divine Stride: You gain an additional 10 feet of movement.
Divine Luster: Once per short rest, you may use the warding flare ability from the light domain cleric.
Divine Health: You become Immune to disease and have advantage on saves against poison.
Faith of the Hero: Once per long rest, you may cast the Heroism spell without expending a spell slot.
Divine Luck: Once per long rest, you may reroll an attack or save roll.

Major:
Divine Vigor: Upon Killing an enemy, you gain temporary hit points equal to half your templar level. These hit points last until depleted, refreshed, or until the end of your next rest.
Divine Shroud: You gain resistance to damage from spells.
Divine Might: Once per long rest you may activate Divine Might, when activated you gain advantage on Strength and Wisdom checks and add your wisdom bonus to your weapon damage for 1 minute.
Divine Quickening: you gain 10 feet of movement, and once per long rest may cast the haste spell without expending a spell slot.
Divine Reflexes: you gain the uncanny dodge feature, and advantage on initiative rolls.

just stuff off the top of my head here....yeah its pretty fricking OP but would be insanely fun to play at least lol. Actually...you only ever get to cast 4 spells depending upon which devotions you pick up...and the level 18 feature should be amazing, so maybe it's not as broken as i thought....

EDIT: also, if anyone has any good ideas for devotions that would beef up the healing capability of the class, I tried to make the features varied in a way that you could go tanky, dps, or healy depending upon what stuff you picked.

[ZenBear]

I very much appreciate those of you who have aided me thus far in this concept. I don't get much time in front of my computer these days so I apologize for not being more active in the conversation.

if you really wanted to work it from the ground up, it might be cool to build this idea on top of warlock casting rules.
...
aside from that you could grant some anointed knight type abilities like holy sight, call to battle, unbroken flesh, or sacred flesh which kinda feel like invocations are in 5e.
...
sacred flesh seems like it would fit the bill perfectly. I think of templars like in DA, as warriors trained in battle against mages, so a spell resistance component seems appropriate.
...
-Sacred flesh: spell resistance like paladin but without the aura, or something like feindish resilience that warlock gets

-Sanctuary: like monk's tranquility feature, on a long rest you get the sanctuary spell effects until next long rest

-Holy sight: Blind fight

-grabbing something similar to the light clerics warding flare ability

-something similar to dark ones own luck but refluffed to be divine

-1/long rest dispel magic effect that can't be counterspelled

I like Sacred Flesh, that is a spectacularly powerful Paladin ability that is still strong even without the aura benefit. Holy Sight is perfect, though I might add a once per short/long rest True Sight or something at higher levels. I like the idea of the monk Sanctuary ability, but being such a violence-centric class I don't know if it really fits.


Spellcasting: Like an EK using Wisdom. I leave the spell list up to you.

Divine Resurgence: At 3rd level, when you use Second Wind, you add your Wisdom modifier to the total hit points you recover and you may expend 1 spell slot and choose a number of creatures equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) within 60ft that you can see. Those creatures are also healed for the same amount.

Divine Surge: Starting at 7th level, when you use Action Surge, you regain 1 expended spell slot of first level. At 13th level, you can regain 1 expended slot of second level if you wish and at 19th level, you can regain an expended 3rd level slot instead. Once you use this ability, you must spend a long rest before you can reuse it.

Please the deities: At 10th level, when you score a critical hit, you can cast a spell with a duration of concentration as a bonus action, even if it has a longer casting time. The spell must include you in its targets and it must not directly harm its targets.

Divine Mettle: At 15th level, whenever you lose your concentration on a spell due to damage, the spell remains active for an additional number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier or its duration runs out or if you cast another spell with a duration of concentration, whichever comes first.

Tireless vigil: At 18th level, whenever you use your Divine Resurgence ability, all creatures affected gain temporary hit points equal to the hit points restored. While those temporary hit points remain, they have Advantage on all Saving throws.

I like Divine Resurgence and Tireless Vigil. Please The Deities is fun as riders on critical hits are rare and usually amount to simply more damage. Something to consider, but I'm not 100% sold on it. Divine Mettle is cool too, though again I'm not 100% on it.


Fighter Archetype: Templar

Your devotion to your deity guide you in battles.

Spellcasting Spell progression as the Eldritch Knight. Spellcasting ability score is Wisdom. You may select spells from the Abjuration, Enchantment and Evocation school from the Cleric spell list. The spell you learn at 8th, 14th and 20th level can be from any school of magic on the clreric spell list.

Divine Domain At 3rd level, choose a domain associated to your deity, you can add the domain spell list to the list of spell available for you to choose from.

Weapon Bound At 3rd level you get Weapon Bound as the EK abilty (PHB p.75)

War Magic At 7th level you get War Magic as the EK ability (PHB p.75)

Baneful Strike At 10th level, your indefectible convition in your deity affects the morale of your opponents when you hit them. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, the creature must make a Charisma saving throw, if it fails, the creature must roll 1d4 and substract the result from its next attack or saving throws.

or

Divine Strike At 10th level, you get the Divine Strike or Potent Spellcasting ability from the domain you choosed. Divine strike doesn't improves at 14th level.

Divine Mettle At 15th level, whenever you lose your concentration on a spell due to damage, the spell remains active for an additional number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier or its duration runs out or if you cast another spell with a duration of concentration, whichever comes first.

Improved War Magic At 18th level you get Improved War Magic as the EK ability (PHB p.75)

I'm not a fan of War Magic. It's main use as I see it depends on having cantrips that do more than just damage your opponent, like Shocking Grasp denying reactions or Ray of Frost slow. Sacred Flame has nothing like this, and the other cleric cantrips are mostly situational or non-combative. Baneful Strike is pretty nifty.


just throwing it out there, you straight up cant give a warrior access to divine strike. that ability is balanced to a cleric that can make 1 or possibly 2 attacks in a turn, not 8.

especially since it's not a spell and could be stacked with elemental weapon which was a spell the OP was interested in having as part of the class. elemental weapon itself is incredibly strong in the hands of a warrior, but at least it isnt ALWAYS up like divine strike would be.

consider that a warrior would be getting a potential 4d8 on every attack and 8d8 during an action surge. that's equivalent to a lvl 3 smite every attack for free.

suuuuuper broken.

Not that I mind broken builds, and my homebrews always skew pretty darn strong, that said heres a bit more fleshing out for my Warlock chassis Templar, I'm gonna borrow divine resurgence because I really like it:

Fighter subclass: Templar - Templars are warriors whose devotion, fervor, and long service of their god have gained them some measure of divine protection in battle. While not bound to a specific oath, these warriors fight in the name of good and fear nothing. Templars are usually battle hardened men and women and women who run headlong into danger to protect the week and the righteous.

level 3-Spellcasting:(WIS) at level 3 a Templar gains two spells slots that recharge upon a short rest with the following spells available, like other divine casters these spells are always prepared, but you must have a spell slot of adequate level to cast them. at level 8 these spell slots become level 2, at level 12 they become level 3.:

Cantrips:Light, Spare the Dying
1st:Bless, Cure Wounds, Compelled duel, Protection from evil and good
2nd:Aid, Spiritual Weapon, Zone of Truth, Prayer of Healing
3rd:Crusaders Mantle, Daylight, Elemental Weapon, Beacon of Hope

level 3-Anointed Weapon: Additionally, during a long rest, you may anoint your weapon or shield. An anointed weapon or shield may be used as a divine focus and cannot be disarmed.

level 7-Minor Devotion: at level 7 you may choose from a list of devotions and gain its effects. you gain another minor devotion at level 12.

level 10-Divine Resurgence: At 3rd level, when you use Second Wind, you add your Wisdom modifier to the total hit points you recover and you may expend 1 spell slot and choose a number of creatures equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) within 15ft that you can see. Those creatures are also healed for the same amount. The area of effect becomes 30 feet at 18th level.

level 15-Anointed Flesh: You gain resistance to necrotic damage, and you maximum life total can't be reduced.

level 18-Major Devotion:At 15th level you may choose one devotion from a list of Major Devotions and gain it's effects.


possible devotions:
Minor:
Faith of the Blind: You no longer need to see your enemies to fight to your full ability, you gain the blind fight power.
Faith in the Light: Once per long rest, you may cast the Daylight spell without expending a spell slot.
Tranquil faith: Once per long rest, you may cast the Sanctuary spell without expending a spell slot.
Divine Stride: You gain an additional 10 feet of movement.
Divine Luster: Once per short rest, you may use the warding flare ability from the light domain cleric.
Divine Health: You become Immune to disease and have advantage on saves against poison.
Faith of the Hero: Once per long rest, you may cast the Heroism spell without expending a spell slot.
Divine Luck: Once per long rest, you may reroll an attack or save roll.

Major:
Divine Vigor: Upon Killing an enemy, you gain temporary hit points equal to half your templar level. These hit points last until depleted, refreshed, or until the end of your next rest.
Divine Shroud: You gain resistance to damage from spells.
Divine Might: Once per long rest you may activate Divine Might, when activated you gain advantage on Strength and Wisdom checks and add your charisma bonus to your weapon damage for 1 minute.
Divine Quickening: you gain 10 feet of movement, and once per long rest may cast the haste spell without expending a spell slot.
Divine Reflexes: you gain the uncanny dodge feature, and advantage on initiative rolls.

just stuff off the top of my head here....yeah its pretty fricking OP but would be insanely fun to play at least lol. Actually...you only ever get to cast 4 spells depending upon which devotions you pick up...and the level 18 feature should be amazing, so maybe it's not as broken as i thought....

EDIT: also, if anyone has any good ideas for devotions that would beef up the healing capability of the class, I tried to make the features varied in a way that you could go tanky, dps, or healy depending upon what stuff you picked.

Note that Divine Strike only proc's once on your turn, so at most the Templar will get an extra 1d8 with no modifiers. It's more likely to proc because of all the extra attacks giving extra opportunities, but the damage won't get too crazy.

I'm not sold on the Warlock spellcasting style. I would rather keep the EK progression. That said, I'm going to make a custom spell list rather than limit by school. It was a fine idea but doesn't really pan out too well IMO. EK is a lackluster subclass and I think this limitation is a big part of that.

Your Devotions are excellent. Balance might not be there, I don't know, but the general idea is solid. I'll think about coming up with some of my own and tweak yours as might be needed. Perhaps granting certain Cleric Domain features could work? Like Disciple of Life and Blessed Healer as minor Devotions and Supreme Healing as major?

[DanyBallon]

I agree that War Magic is less attractive with divine cantrips. Maybe I'd homebrew a new divine cantrip that would be equivalent to Frostbite, Ray of Frost or Shocking Grasp, but doing radiant damage instead. Also I'll add Spare the Dying to the spell list. I considered doing a custom spell list, but I believe the reason why EK and AT get access only to a limited school selection from the wizards spell list is to prevent having to create custom spell list for every sub-classes. So I tried to stick with this philosophy.

edit: About War Magic, what if we replace the ability with being able to divinely enchant your weapon, giving you an effective +1 to attack roll and damage roll for 1 hour once per long(short?) rest?

[DanyBallon]

Ok let's try this new (and improved?) version:

Fighter Archetype: Templar

Your devotion to your deity guide you in battles.

Spellcasting Spell progression as the Eldritch Knight. Spellcasting ability score is Wisdom. You may select spells from the Abjuration, Enchantment and Evocation school and from all the cantrips on the Cleric spell list. The spell you learn at 8th, 14th and 20th level can be from any school of magic on the clreric spell list.

Divine Domain At 3rd level, choose a domain associated to your deity, you can add the domain spell list to the list of spell available for you to choose from.

Weapon Bound At 3rd level you get Weapon Bound as the EK abilty (PHB p.75)

War Magic Starting at 7th level your devotion let you infuse your weapon with divine magic. Once per rest, your weapon becomes magically enchanted and gets +1 to Attack rolls and Damage rolls This effect last for 10 minutes. At 16th level the bonus increase to +2.

Divine Guidance At 10th level, you get the Divine Strike or Potent Spellcasting ability from the domain you choosed. Divine strike doesn't improves at 14th level.

Baneful Strike At 15th level, your indefectible convition in your deity affects the morale of your opponents when you hit them. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, the creature must make a Charisma saving throw, if it fails, the creature must roll 1d4 and substract the result from its next attack or saving throws.

Divine Mettle At 18th level, whenever you lose your concentration on a spell due to damage, the spell remains active for an additional number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier or its duration runs out or if you cast another spell with a duration of concentration, whichever comes first.