Blindness as a possible Flaw?

[Chester]

A player in our party would like to build a Sacred Fist, but also would like to be blind for flavor/fun.

It's probably a good idea to make his blindness a flaw. Perhaps it could also be a Flaw/Trait combo? We're just not sure if this exists already, and we're looking for suggestions on how to make this work in a way that's fair (simply being blind in exchange for a feat seems unbalanced).

Anyway, one of our group suggested this:

The spell Blindness/Deafness is a second level spell that makes you blind. I'd consider having that on you the equivalent of a flaw, assuming you can't easily dispel it.
A 2nd level spell that grants you the benefits you're looking for is Listening Lorecall in the Spell Compendium. The benefits improve as you gain ranks in listen (normal: 5 ranks grants Blindsense 30', and 12 ranks grants Blindsight 15'), and you get a +4 Insight bonus to listen checks.
I'd make Listening Lorecall a permanent spell, make the +4 bonus untyped, and somehow change the requirements to make you gain Blindsight sooner than 12 ranks in listen (6 ranks? 8? I dunno; blindsight is powerful, so this balancing act may require discussion).
Look up Blindsense and Blindsight in the Monster Manual and think about the ramifications. If this were a flaw / feat combo, if one effect were dispelled, the other would go with it.

This sounds decent, but I thought I'd put it out there for suggestions.

[Grooke]

First off, now that there is a 9000gp Blindfold of True Darkness in the MIC that gives you Blindsight 30' but you can't see. Some could say this means Blindsight 30' is "worth 9000gp & a face slot more" than sight (of course it does carry some drawbacks, and making blindness permanent is worse).

Like your friend says, Blindsight is good and it make make some balancing difficult. I definitely wouldn't give him a bonus feat and the Lorecall thing, but either one separately can be made to work.

[Karl Aegis]

Use Iron Heart Surge for free feats?

Sounds good.

[Grooke]

Yeah in any case, the bonus must keep blindness as a prerequisite to avoid it being removed.

[Eloel]

I'd give touchsight 15ft and blindsight 30ft and call it a day (no feats).

[Segev]

Since he's playing a Sacred Fist, I would suggest creating an Alternate Class Feature for the Monk:

Blind Master
This replaces your Monk Bonus Feat at level 1. You are blind, and if you are ever cured of this condition, you lose the benefits of this class feature until you are blinded again. You gain Listen as a class skill, and the Blind-Fight feat as a bonus feat. With a successful Listen check to hear something, you can locate it as if you had Blindsense out to the required distance.

[Eloel]

Since he's playing a Sacred Fist, I would suggest creating an Alternate Class Feature for the Monk:

Blind Master
This replaces your Monk Bonus Feat at level 1. You are blind, and if you are ever cured of this condition, you lose the benefits of this class feature until you are blinded again. You gain Listen as a class skill, and the Blind-Fight feat as a bonus feat. With a successful Listen check to hear something, you can locate it as if you had Blindsense out to the required distance.

...wow

You made the Monk worse. Impressive.

[ExLibrisMortis]

If you're worried that the blindsense and blindsight come too late - at levels where you don't really need it, because magic items can do the job just as well - you can make it 5' plus 5' per 3 ranks, up to 30' blindsight and 60' blindsense. That way, you start out with a 10-foot range you can 'see' in, which allows melee combat, but past 20' you're basically entirely listen-based. At third level, you get an increase up to 15'/30', and then every three levels after that you get another, up to 12th level, where the range caps out.

On the other hand, if you want to be blind, deaf and mute, 100' telepathy + mindsight is a great substitute for sight, hearing and speech. Sure, you can't see vermin, constructs or zombies, but that's what you got party members for :smalltongue:.

You can always throw in Scent as a fun-but-weak freebie.

[Burley]

Especially because the player is wanting to do this for flavor, how about this?
Have him take the Illiteracy flaw and call it a day. Rather than giving a bunch of penalties and bonuses that will be difficult to balance, just play it as him having other senses that function as sight, but he can't read text or anything like that, hence the illiteracy.


The PCs and the rest of the in-game world will naturally function around his blindness, but the DM and players shouldn't have to deal with all the extra maths, just for a flavorful character.

[SangoProduction]

Especially because the player is wanting to do this for flavor, how about this?
Have him take the Illiteracy flaw and call it a day. Rather than giving a bunch of penalties and bonuses that will be difficult to balance, just play it as him having other senses that function as sight, but he can't read text or anything like that, hence the illiteracy.


The PCs and the rest of the in-game world will naturally function around his blindness, but the DM and players shouldn't have to deal with all the extra maths, just for a flavorful character.

I say that that's the best way. Fluff is often best done with fluff, not crunch. Other than some specific things like Blindness/Deafness, there is nothing that really is harmed by doing this with fluff.

[Segev]

...wow

You made the Monk worse. Impressive.

Oh pifle. It's one feat they lose.

And it's not hard to make anything worse.

What that gives them is nearly limitless-range blindsense, provided they can make a listen check. It comes with an initial downside that is technically curable, and if you pay attention to the wording, it doesn't say the re-blinding has to be permanent or even for any period of time. As long as they can't see (e.g. close their eyes or wear a blindfold), they gain the benefit of the class feature.

It's not great, but it's a level 1 ability that's replacing a bonus feat. What do you expect?

[Spore]

You do know Pathfinder's oracle curse class feature?


Oracle's Curse (Ex): Each oracle is cursed, but this curse comes with a benefit as well as a hindrance. This choice is made at 1st level, and once made, it cannot be changed. The oracle's curse cannot be removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity. An oracle's curse is based on her oracle level plus one for every two levels or Hit Dice other than oracle. Each oracle must choose one of the following curses.


Clouded Vision: Your eyes are obscured, making it difficult for you to see. You cannot see anything beyond 30 feet, but you can see as if you had darkvision. At 5th level, this distance increases to 60 feet. At 10th level, you gain blindsense out to a range of 30 feet. At 15th level, you gain blindsight out to a range of 15 feet.

I've refluffed "seeing badly" as being blind and having some sort of "aura vision".

[Baroknik]

Or give him blindness in exchange for Hidden Talent (synesthete).
Sure, he can only see 20 minutes a day (in 2 10 minute packets), but he can change up a lot of his senses this way.