Pathfinder Tactician Optimization

[Reprimand]

Recently got the ultimate psionics book from dreamscarred press and I wanted to make a good tactician does anyone have any tips or tricks on how to play this class?

Or Direct me to a handbook or sample build?

I already googled it and all I found was a half finished handbook on the playground forums.

[stack]

I haven't seen a completed handbook. Some of Psyren's advice from his vitalist handbook would apply, but not much. The tactician gets little attention, in my experience. Its just kind of...there.

[Reprimand]

Is there a reason they go so unnoticed?

[Kurald Galain]

Is there a reason they go so unnoticed?

Because it focuses on complicated / situational / fiddly abilities that give tiny bonuses, i.e. lots of work for little benefit, whereas more common buffing effects (e.g. Bless / Flagbearer / Inspire Courage) are both simpler and more effective.

[Anlashok]

Looking at other Psionics classes. They're not as flashy as an aegis or psion or wilder. They don't do anything super new like the ageis. They aren't "expressing an old concept in a better way" like the vitalist or psiwar.

They just give you a bunch of small bonuses and that's it.

Dread tends to also fall into the same "Wait that was a class?" category too.

[Ssalarn]

Tactician is a solid class, but as others have mentioned sometimes you're working hard to get something you could get more easily another way. They're also pretty MAD, as they want good STR, CON, INT, and CHA, and can use a few points in DEX as well.

Roshan's Inevitable Strike is pretty much a must have ability to shore up your weaker to-hit (and it will be weaker; you're 3/4 BAB and can't afford an 18 anywhere).

Depending on your starting level and your expected max level in the campaign, there's a few different ways to get a good character put of the class. You can go Forgeborn and focus on your manifesting and abilities that aren't as CHA reliant until you can afford a stat boosting headband; this is good for a "thug" who primarily acts as the party communication hub and focuses on dropping big Psionic Weapon strikes using RIE to make sure the hits land and he doesn't waste his focus. I'm told you can get some decent archery builds out of the chassis with the right race and feats, but that's not something I've personally tried.

If you can give a little more information about your game, I can probably help direct you a little better.

[Novawurmson]

Hey!

I made the beginnings a tactician guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19abvTyWRgRzi_4yiVkDkHZzXnr9lIbql5zpEWrNtf_U/edit), and someone else has been curating it. Hope it'll help you at least a little.

[Reprimand]

Hey!

I made the beginnings a tactician guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19abvTyWRgRzi_4yiVkDkHZzXnr9lIbql5zpEWrNtf_U/edit), and someone else has been curating it. Hope it'll help you at least a little.

You were the half finished guide I was talking about xD

I read the stat buys but any information you could provide on spells suggestions etc would be great. I also plan to take expanded knowledge energy ray for fire emblem similarities.

[Novawurmson]

You were the half finished guide I was talking about xD

I read the stat buys but any information you could provide on spells suggestions etc would be great. I also plan to take expanded knowledge energy ray for fire emblem similarities.

Oh :smallredface: Ehehehehe

I'm actually playing a level 12 battle medic tactician right now. I used Expanded Knowledge to pick up Energy Missile and Fold Space. Otherwise, y power list right now looks like:

1 - Entangling Ectoplasm
1 - Precognition, Tactical (rarely used - my tactician is pretty much full caster, though I meant for her to be more melee)
2 - Body Adjustment
2 - Cleanse Body
3 - Dispel Psionics
3 - Battlesense
4 - Wall of Ectoplasm
4 - Psychokinetic Charge
5 - Prowess as One (not really used. There's a stalker in the group, but he's accurate enough already)
5 - Psionic Revivfy
6 - Heal Injuries
6 - Cleanse Spirit

As far as strategies go, I highly, highly recommend Collective Defenses. If you start with an 18 in Intelligence (possibly +2 from race), that's a minimum of a +5 insight bonus to AC for your collective; with all 3 level-up stats in Int and a +4 item, I've got a 27 in Intelligence - +8 as a swift action? So good.

I'll try to write up some more later. Helping my wife with some cleaning.

[Reprimand]

Oh :smallredface: Ehehehehe

I'm actually playing a level 12 battle medic tactician right now. I used Expanded Knowledge to pick up Energy Missile and Fold Space. Otherwise, y power list right now looks like:

1 - Entangling Ectoplasm
1 - Precognition, Tactical (rarely used - my tactician is pretty much full caster, though I meant for her to be more melee)
2 - Body Adjustment
2 - Cleanse Body
3 - Dispel Psionics
3 - Battlesense
4 - Wall of Ectoplasm
4 - Psychokinetic Charge
5 - Prowess as One (not really used. There's a stalker in the group, but he's accurate enough already)
5 - Psionic Revivfy
6 - Heal Injuries
6 - Cleanse Spirit

As far as strategies go, I highly, highly recommend Collective Defenses. If you start with an 18 in Intelligence (possibly +2 from race), that's a minimum of a +5 insight bonus to AC for your collective; with all 3 level-up stats in Int and a +4 item, I've got a 27 in Intelligence - +8 as a swift action? So good.

I'll try to write up some more later. Helping my wife with some cleaning.

Any tips for someone trying to mix melee and casting? (Like a red mage from ff1 or a tactician from fire emblem.)

Looks great though!

[Novawurmson]

Hrm, for a mixed person some top choices for powers:

1st Level
Inevitable Strike
Precognition, Defensive (unless you're taking Coordinated Defenses)

2nd Level
Dimension Swap

3rd Level
Battlesense

4th Level
Battle Transformation
Psychokinetic Charge

...but really, if you want to do melee, you're going to need to rely a little more on your Strategies, because you can use many of them while attacking. What level are you starting at?

[Thealtruistorc]

My favorite tactician trick. Prepare to be terrified.

Use unwilling participant (or just ask if they want to join your collective to negotiate telepathically) on the BBEG. Once that is done, simply manifest shared power null psionics field (requires 13 power points and expanded knowledge, so this only sets in at later levels) and watch as your foe becomes magic-less for several rounds, becoming complete bait for your attacks.

[Ssalarn]

Hrm, for a mixed person some top choices for powers:

1st Level
Inevitable Strike
Precognition, Defensive (unless you're taking Coordinated Defenses)

2nd Level
Dimension Swap

3rd Level
Battlesense

4th Level
Battle Transformation
Psychokinetic Charge

...but really, if you want to do melee, you're going to need to rely a little more on your Strategies, because you can use many of them while attacking. What level are you starting at?

Inevitable Strike is pretty much mandatory for Tacticians who want to mix melee and manifesting.

[Tulya]

Into the Fray enables a melee Tactician to get a buff/control round without actually falling behind appreciably.

For example, around 8-9th, you can use Into the Fray, Hustle Power Strike as One, and Battlesense or Battle Transformation on your first turn of combat, charge the designated target as an immediate action on your ally's turn, and unload a full attack on your next turn.

[Novawurmson]

Thinking it over, you're trying to rebuild the tactician from Fire Emblem, you might want to consider your options. The DSP tactician is a top-tier buffing/support/control class, but it doesn't really do the "elementalist spellsword" theme very well. A few other choices:

Magus - Lots of elemental damage, very close to same fighting style.
Mystic - Elemental Flux discipline means you don't have to worry about managing PP, spell slots, or daily resources as much.
Psychic warrior - If you really like elemental damage, take a look atMartial Kineticist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psychic-warrior/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/martial-kineticist). Otherwise, you can still do a pretty amazing spellblade with the psychic warrior.
Wilder - Great for a much more "selfish" build than the tactician. Take Student’s Surge for a bunch of free Expanded Knowledges.

If you're willing to be looser with the fluff, you can do a pretty great spellblade with the inquisitor, alchemist, bloodrager, or even warpriest.

[Reprimand]

I had considered magus but it uses heavy armor would it be unfair to trade light medium and heavy armor + shields for int to ac and 6 skill points per level + access to all knowledge skills and maybe a creature lore type ability like the inquisitor?

Its kind of like cleric to cloistered cleric from 3.5

[Ssalarn]

I had considered magus but it uses heavy armor would it be unfair to trade light medium and heavy armor + shields for int to ac and 6 skill points per level + access to all knowledge skills and maybe a creature lore type ability like the inquisitor?

Probably not, considering that the Magus' ability to use the various armor types is broken up over 13 levels of play. And Magus is an INT based class, so 6+Int skills shouldn't be happening unless you bump every class' skills by at least 2/level.

Maybe check out the Kensai Magus archetype? It's close to what you're asking.

[Tulya]

Wilders can actually support allies surprisingly well.

For example, a 9th level Wilder with the Raging Surge type taking Surging Aura (Any level feat), Expanded Knowledge (Battlesense, 9th level feat), Reckless Abandon (5th level Surge Bond), and Inspire Ferocity (9th level Surge Bond) grants:
+3 untyped to attack, -3 AC to allies within 30'
+2 to 4 circumstance to attack to all allies, +aid another as immediate action (+4 if surging without Blasting Wilder archetype)
+4 insight to attack to up to 4 allies within 10' (assuming +1 surge crystal)

From the first turn of combat with a swift action remaining. What you can do with that depends on how you build your character.

A Blasting Wilder (Archetype) can grab Expanded Knowledge (Hustle, 7th level feat) to go with their free Psionic Meditation, and then Elemental Blast (Any level feat). On their first turn, they Surge Blast for 1.5*(8d6+8) off of Battlesense, and Hustle to regain focus. On later turns, they can Energy Ray and Surge Blast for (9d6+9) + 1.5*(8d6+8) damage with a move action open for repositioning for buff sharing or refreshing Inspire Ferocity. If conserving PP, they can Surge Blast twice for 4d6+4 + 8d6+8 damage for the cost of a 3 pp Hustle.

A Controller/Blaster Wilder can grab Quicken Power (Any level feat), Psionic Meditation (5h level feat), and Expanded Knowledge (Energy Missile, 7th level feat). On their first turn, they can Quicken something like Energy Wall, Wall of Ectoplasm, or Psychokinetic Charge. On subsequent turns, they can blast with Energy Missile, recover psionic focus, and quicken utility/control powers as needed.

A Melee Wilder can grab Unlocked Talent (Expansion, 1st level feat) and Expanded Knowledge (Lion's Charge, 7th level feat). On their first turn, they expand two sizes as a swift action. On their second turn, they can use Lion's Charge to pounce a full attack on an unfortunate victim. Burning the 5th level feat on Lesser Fiend Totem for a Gore Attack would be beneficial, as would a splash at 10th level into Aberrant Aegis.

Note: These aren't meant to be optimal builds, but directions you can take a Wilder concept that includes significant buffs to allies. For example, if you're going to focus on the manifesting angle, the +3 to attack from going Raging Surge is almost certainly not worth it compared to options like Student's Surge bonus feats.

Edit: I'm not familiar with Fire Emblem. The concept doesn't really sound like it fits too well with any of these, though do note that you can adapt them pretty easily if they interest you.
For example, the Blasting Wilder archetype build could be Str focused, using Power Channeler in conjunction with Dissipating Touch. Off of every standard action attack, you'd deal Dissipating Touch damage, and your 1.5x 2x Surge Blast damage. Your base move action puts you into position, and your bonus move action from Hustle recharges your focus. Since Surge Blast and Energy Ray target Touch AC, and you're a 3/4th BAB class with a substantial bonus to attack, you can still blast from a range if you choose.