first time as a druid.

[dehro]

I am going to play a human druid with Vow of poverty, starting at 6th level in a faerun-like setting. I will probably do most of my fighting in some other shape.
I have a couple of questions.

1) I picked the exalted feat touch of golden ice. I am not clear on the mechanics. It refers back to the ravages section of book of exalted deeds,
where there is talk of initial and secondary damage.. How do they apply in melee combat (or indeed casual touch)?
2) with the talent intuitive attack, the wisdom bonus goes on the attack roll but the bonus on damages is still determined by strength, right?
3) Does anybody have any suggestion on what spells a melee oriented druid should have? I do have the natural spell feat. The only accepted spell sources are the player's handbook and the spell compendium
4) I bumped into a very handy excel file that helps me by greatly automating the process of filling up a sheet for my animal companion.
Does anyone know if a similar thing exists for the animal shapes I might want to shift to as a druid, and where I could find it?
5) what are the best creatures/animal forms to pick for an average melee fight on the ground? Are there any standout or favorites you'd like to recommend?
6) do animal companions get more feats as they grow in HD/level and, if so, what is the progression? I couldn't find it clearly spelled out either way

Thank you for helping with any of these questions.

[eggynack]

1) I picked the exalted feat touch of golden ice. I am not clear on the mechanics. It refers back to the ravages section of book of exalted deeds,
where there is talk of initial and secondary damage.. How do they apply in melee combat (or indeed casual touch)?
It applies as a poison does. When you hit, there's a DC 14 save against 1d6 dexterity damage, and then a minute later, they save against 2d6.

2) with the talent intuitive attack, the wisdom bonus goes on the attack roll but the bonus on damages is still determined by strength, right?
Yep.

3) Does anybody have any suggestion on what spells a melee oriented druid should have? I do have the natural spell feat.
The bite of the wereX line from the spell compendium is reasonably good, with the later ones especially good for melee combat, and greater magic fang is always solid. Venomfire from serpent kingdoms is also obviously ridiculous.

5) what are the best creatures/animal forms to pick for an average melee fight on the ground? Are there any standout or favorites you'd like to recommend?
Fleshraker dinosaur from the MM III is a classic for a reason, and you can never go too far off track with a big cat or dinosaur.

6) do animal companions get more feats as they grow in HD/level and, if so, what is the progression? I couldn't find it clearly spelled out either way.
They do, and the progression is the same as it is for PC's, with an extra feat at every HD divisible by three.

[dehro]

that was quick.
Thanks.
1) can this happen multiple times to the same target? Say I have 2 attacks and they both hit.. Does only the first give this effect or both?
3) Do the bite of the werex spell effects stack with the bonuses from the animal shape I am in?

[eggynack]

1) can this happen multiple times to the same target? Say I have 2 attacks and they both hit.. Does only the first give this effect or both?
I think they'd stack, as ability damage doesn't really see other ability damage for these purposes.

3) Do the bite of the werex spell effects stack with the bonuses from the animal shape I am in?
That they would, or at least the non-attack stuff would. Pretty sure you don't get two bite attacks.

[Darrin]

I am going to play a human druid with Vow of poverty


The general opinion on Vow of Poverty in this forum tends to be very, very negative. If you want this for flavor or to nerf the typical druidzilla a bit, then maybe that's ok for you, but most of the advice you'll find here would be to drop it.



1) I picked the exalted feat touch of golden ice. I am not clear on the mechanics. It refers back to the ravages section of book of exalted deeds,
where there is talk of initial and secondary damage.. How do they apply in melee combat (or indeed casual touch)?


Ravages work a lot like poison ("but are totally not poison!" *wink* *wink*). When you strike an evil creature with an unarmed strike or natural attack, the target has to make a Fort save DC 14 or take 1d6 Dex damage initially. 10 rounds later, they have to make another Fort save DC 14 or they take the secondary damage (2d6 Dex). Since the feat says "bare hand", I'd also say you could use a touch attack instead of an unarmed strike, if you're interested in just incapacitating the evil creature instead of doing unarmed damage.

As far as casual touching... it's the same as trying to apply a contact poison to someone's skin, so unless the target is already sleeping/incapacitated, I'd probably call out "Roll for initiative" and proceed from there.



2) with the talent intuitive attack, the wisdom bonus goes on the attack roll but the bonus on damages is still determined by strength, right?


Yes. The feat text doesn't mention anything about the damage bonus, so that works the same way it always works.



3) Does anybody have any suggestion on what spells a melee oriented druid should have? I do have the natural spell feat. The only accepted spell sources are the player's handbook and the spell compendium


My standard Druidzilla spell advice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?221979-Druid-Help&p=12183941#post12183941) covers PHB/Spell Compendium, but some of the best spells are found in other sourcebooks.

If combat starts with both sides separated by some distance, entangle or another battlefield control (BFC) spell is the typical druid strategy to start with. If you're already in wild shape and want to get your hands dirty with melee, then cast produce flame on your primary natural weapon. If you manage to get another buffing round, hulk out a bit with bull's strength.

Your 2nd level spells tend to be shutdown/isolation spells: blinding spittle and kelpstrand. You've got a little direct damage here, too... creeping cold and splinterbolt.

3rd level is mostly three spells: call lightning (blasting), sleet storm (BFC), and summon nature's ally III (minionmancy).

If you want to blast, wild shape into a dire hawk (MM2), cast cloudburst to get stormlike conditions, and blast call lightning from above the battlefield. Sleet storm slows down your enemies and forces them to attack blindly, as well as making them flat-footed unless they have 5 ranks in Balance. Your allies can attack any creatures on the edge of the sleet storm without penalty, but anyone inside can't see your allies (the enemy has to pick a square and deal with 50% miss chance due to total concealment). For summoning advice, consult the Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219).



4) I bumped into a very handy excel file that helps me by greatly automating the process of filling up a sheet for my animal companion.
Does anyone know if a similar thing exists for the animal shapes I might want to shift to as a druid, and where I could find it?


Druids require a lot of bookkeeping, both for wild shape and summoning. The wild shape forms you have available are going to be dictated by what sourcebooks you have available, and I'm not clear if you're restricted to Core or MM1-5 or what. I'm not aware of a standard excel spreadsheet, but I'd guess they're out there somewhere. Sounds more like something you'd want to do yourself, though.



5) what are the best creatures/animal forms to pick for an average melee fight on the ground? Are there any standout or favorites you'd like to recommend?


Again, you'll want to specify what sources are available. The Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219) is a good place to start, but eggynack should be along shortly. He's the authority on all things treehuggerish.



6) do animal companions get more feats as they grow in HD/level and, if so, what is the progression? I couldn't find it clearly spelled out either way


Yes, they get additional feats, just like any other creature. The rules are in the Monster Manual: one feat at 1st HD, and one feat for every three HD after that.

[dehro]

Vow of poverty is not negotiable, as I have already handed in my background. I was unaware that it was considered a bad choice, but even had I known, I would have gone for it, from flavour.
As for the shapes, I think all monster manuals are accepted sources.
Edit. Right now just the first one.. The others shall become available as I see more of the world.

Is there such a thing as an immunity to ravages and/or does an immunity to something else apply? How does one heal from one/avoid its effects? I am picturing my chaotic evil dwarven party member slapping me on the back and inflicting himself with It. I wouldn't want to heal him, what with him being manifestly evil, but other team mates may want to

[eggynack]

The general opinion on Vow of Poverty in this forum tends to be very, very negative. If you want this for flavor or to nerf the typical druidzilla a bit, then maybe that's ok for you, but most of the advice you'll find here would be to drop it.
That is perhaps true in the general case, but significantly less so for druids, on the basis of solid exalted feats, incentives to ditch items, and class supplanting need for items.

[AvatarVecna]

To be fair, of all the base classes, Druids are the ones that can most easily get away with having literally no money; they're a full spellcaster, they get Wild Shape, and the example weapon a VoP ascetic is allowed (e.g.: quarterstaff) is a weapon that Druids are capable of super-charging right from the start. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shillelagh.htm)

EDIT: That's not even taking into account how many Exalted feats a druid can benefit from, what their animal companion adds to the mix, or how the various benefits of VoP combine magnificently with the Druid's spells and class abilities.

[dehro]

Am I right thinking that the bite of the werex don't get shared with the animal companion?

[Blackhawk748]

Am I right thinking that the bite of the werex don't get shared with the animal companion?

You are correct, feel free to cast it on them though. I derped, dont judge me i just got up :smalltongue:

Also for forms, you cant really go wrong with a Bear, as its a good all around beatstick, and if you can swing Polar Bear you get a swim speed! Also Tiger is pretty decent.

[eggynack]

Am I right thinking that the bite of the werex don't get shared with the animal companion?
Why wouldn't it be shared? It's a spell you're casting on yourself. There's no restriction to the targeting.

[Troacctid]

Is there such a thing as an immunity to ravages and/or does an immunity to something else apply? How does one heal from one/avoid its effects? I am picturing my chaotic evil dwarven party member slapping me on the back and inflicting himself with It. I wouldn't want to heal him, what with him being manifestly evil, but other team mates may want to

So, ravages. First off, only evil creatures are affected by them. Any non-evil creature is immune. Additionally, any creature that is immune to the ability damage, such as a construct or an undead, will be unaffected. However, they are not considered poisons, so poison immunity does not apply, nor does any saving throw bonus that normally applies against poison.

Another thing you need to know is that ravages don't just deal the damage indicated on the table, they also deal additional damage on top of that equal to the subject's Charisma bonus, if any. (This is because their moral corruption is being turned against them and converted to physical corruption.) So if they have a Charisma modifier of +2, the golden ice deals 1d6+2 Dex damage, and 2d6+2 Dex damage 1 minute later. Additionally, if the target is an evil elemental or evil undead*, the damage is also increased by 1, and if the target is an evil outsider or an evil cleric of an evil deity, the damage is increased by 2.

*When the designers included that "evil undead" line, they probably forgot that undead are immune to physical ability damage and any effect that requires a Fortitude save.

[Hiro Quester]

4) I bumped into a very handy excel file that helps me by greatly automating the process of filling up a sheet for my animal companion.
Does anyone know if a similar thing exists for the animal shapes I might want to shift to as a druid, and where I could find it?


I use the same kind of spreadsheet for AC, but adapted it to also serve as sheet -generator for summoned animals. If you are using the one I'm thinking of, it's pretty easy to adapt for that purpose. It's especially good for implementing the effects of Augment Summoning, or other buffs you might cast on allies that include your summoned animals.

I don't use it for my AC because of the below product that takes care of this:

For wildshapes, I can recommend The Only Sheet (ToS) (http://theonlysheet.com/homepage/). It's a licensed product, not free, but totally worth it ($15/year as I recall) in terms of the flexibility and automation it provides. It does require you to bring a laptop to the gaming table (talk to your DM about whether this would be okay). It's designed to implement Core/SRD stuff, but the community has also posted importable implementations of important stuff from many other books.


Sidenote: If your whole party uses it, importing everyone's sheets into the DM version makes many aspects of DMing much easier to work with (DM can set DC for a listen check, and can secretly roll for players, incorporating their bonuses, without telling them they failed a listen check.)

A few years back someone designed a very useful implementation of wildshape for ToS. I had to adapt it a little, because it was designed for a previous version. But you import this file into your ToS sheet, and it creates a space on the Laptop controls sheet, in which you select your wildshape form, and it instantly changes all the relevant stats, attacks, etc.

That is such a huge time (and paper) saver, not having to print out many sheets for all the wildshape forms I might take on.

With druids being so bookkeeping-heavy, this --along with the summoned animal spreadsheet-- is very worth it.

(PM me with your email address and I'd be happy to share more details.)

[Sith_Happens]

my chaotic evil dwarven party member

How are you and this other player planning on being Evil and Exalted in the same party, and for that matter what's the rest of the party looking like alignment-wise? That's kind of important.

On the mechanics side, you definitely want Exalted Companion, Exalted Wild Shape, and Nymph's Kiss.

[AvatarVecna]

How are you and this other player planning on being Evil and Exalted in the same party, and for that matter what's the rest of the party looking like alignment-wise? That's kind of important.

On the mechanics side, you definitely want Exalted Companion, Exalted Wild Shape, and Nymph's Kiss.

Agreed; Exalted characters, per the fluff, are people who who are so good, they're approaching the levels of moral responsibility Capital-G Good Outsiders operate at usually. This is a level of Good that requires such devotion, that even fallen Paladins have an easier time recovering from isolated incidents of immoral action.

EDIT: Also, you're a druid using Vow of Poverty. You may as well have your Animal Companion take it, too.

[Bronk]

You might want to check with your DM about the save DCs for your 'Touch of Golden Ice' as well. Unlike the regular ravage listed in BoED, the Touch of Golden Ice feat grants this to your character as a supernatural ability, and those do have scaling saving throws. It'll get more powerful with your HD and probably your Charisma modifier too.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

[dehro]

How are you and this other player planning on being Evil and Exalted in the same party, and for that matter what's the rest of the party looking like alignment-wise? That's kind of important.

On the mechanics side, you definitely want Exalted Companion, Exalted Wild Shape, and Nymph's Kiss.

exalted companion requires, for my allignment, a 7th level. exalted wild shape requires 8th level and nymph's kiss has been banned by the DM.
as for the other guy, he's being held in check by the leader of our party, a cleric of kelemvor. he tries to be sneaky and stuff, but it's not fooling her... so he's somewhat forced to be on decent behaviour.
the others are somewhat better placed, allignement wise.. as it is, the party is working for the greater good, so co-existence should be possible. if not, we'll see what happens ongame.
I'm thinking of taking gift of discernment (I have a consistent track record of making questionable choices... well, I think they're sound ones, but the guy who is now our game master disagrees often, so..).. touch of golden ice, and either intuitive attack or nimbus of light, for the lulz.

[Troacctid]

exalted companion requires, for my allignment, a 7th level.

You can take the feat at any level. You don't have to choose a specific companion when you take the feat--it just expands your options. If you take it at 2nd level, you can get a celestial version of a normal animal. Then later, at 7th level, you can trade it for a unicorn or whatever.

[dehro]

You can take the feat at any level. You don't have to choose a specific companion when you take the feat--it just expands your options. If you take it at 2nd level, you can get a celestial version of a normal animal. Then later, at 7th level, you can trade it for a unicorn or whatever.

I see.. thanks for the clarification

[Bronk]

Plus, since exalted wild shape grants you a celestial creature at the very least, even a regular celestial creature gains, as a magical beast, an intelligence score higher than two... meaning it's smart enough to take not just the vow of poverty feat, but any other exalted feat it wants. If your DM lets you choose, great, otherwise you can try roleplaying and diplomacy to convince it to take the feats you suggest.

[atemu1234]

exalted companion requires, for my allignment, a 7th level. exalted wild shape requires 8th level and nymph's kiss has been banned by the DM.
as for the other guy, he's being held in check by the leader of our party, a cleric of kelemvor. he tries to be sneaky and stuff, but it's not fooling her... so he's somewhat forced to be on decent behaviour.
the others are somewhat better placed, allignement wise.. as it is, the party is working for the greater good, so co-existence should be possible. if not, we'll see what happens ongame.
I'm thinking of taking gift of discernment (I have a consistent track record of making questionable choices... well, I think they're sound ones, but the guy who is now our game master disagrees often, so..).. touch of golden ice, and either intuitive attack or nimbus of light, for the lulz.

Why was Nymph's Kiss banned?

[dehro]

Why was Nymph's Kiss banned?

because reasons.
no idea actually, but it would also be somewhat impractical, what with having to get intimate on a regular schedule with a fey creature... which is kinda hard to do in our setting/gaming context.

[Blackhawk748]

because reasons.
no idea actually, but it would also be somewhat impractical, what with having to get intimate on a regular schedule with a fey creature... which is kinda hard to do in our setting/gaming context.

Uh, you only need to do it once...

[dehro]

Uh, you only need to do it once...

it says mantaining, not having once had.. so I took it as a continuing thing. either way, it's still banned and I'm not too upset about it.

[AvatarVecna]

it says mantaining, not having once had.. so I took it as a continuing thing. either way, it's still banned and I'm not too upset about it.

To be technical, not only is that just the flavor text (which has no mechanical vearing on whether or not a character can take the feat per RAW), there's still multiple waysto interpret that fluff that don't require slipping a dryad some wood as a side quest: by stretching your definition of "intimate" away from "boning buddies" towards "close platonic friendship", not only are you now keeping more in line with D&D's idea of Exalted Good (namely, remaining chaste even while maintaining a close friendship with a highly sexual creature), you're also stil well within several accepted definitions of "intimate" (just ask Webster).

Finally: once again, this is just the fluff text; if you really want the feat, you could try convincing your DM to let you refluff it.

[dehro]

yeah.. trying to get around a limitation imposed by the DM through arguing would be seen just as that. I'm not even going to try because it's not worth it and I wouldn't change his mind.

@Hiro Quester: thanks for the spreadsheet.. it's the one I've been using but with very handy improvements which would have taken me ages to work out how to sneak in without trying to change stuff beyond my level of computer literacy. (is there a reason why iron will and circle against magic cannot be selected singularly?)