Grapple and Flurry clarification

[KingSmitty]

I am building an unarmed swordsage/monk, hoping to focus on flurry and grappling along with other combat tactics, but my feats are numbered.

From what I see, I can replace a melee attack with a grapple attempt or a pin attempt if grappling.

My understanding is, at level 3, my flurry is +0/+0.
First attack, I replace my attack with a grapple attempt, this much is clear.
What im not clear on is can I use my second flurry attempt to attempt a pin? or do I have to wait till my next turn?

I cannot see exactly if I have to hold an enemy for one whole round to pin him or not..
Pin Your Opponent
You can hold your opponent immobile for 1 round by winning an opposed grapple check (made in place of an attack). Once you have an opponent pinned, you have a few options available to you (see below).

from what I see, I just need to use the pin option in place of a melee attack, to hold an enemy in place for one round. Nowhere do i see i have to hold them for a round before i can pin them as my DM suggests.

so my flurry options I believe are:

2 attacks (+0/+0)
one attack (+0) and one grapple attempt
Two grapple attempts (if the first is successful second attack at -4 [+0 if nonlethal] , failed first get another chance) or
:smallcool: Two Grapple attempts (first successful second attack would be to pin opponent)

if that is allowed, I'll surely take bonuses to grapple (imp. grapple, Jotunbrud) giving me a bonus of +8 to my grapple attempts

other bonuses to grapple or abilities keyed off grapple are known to me, but if you have other sneaky ideas I may not know about I wont turn you away for sharing

[Curmudgeon]

Yes, whenever you're allowed a grapple check "in place of an attack", any extra attacks you get in your full attack will be useful.

[Karl Aegis]

Grapple and Pin are not monk special weapons and cannot be used in a flurry.

[Hiro Quester]

You can only grapple and pin in the same round when your BAB gets high enough that tiu get a second attack. You dang usd flurry to grapple.

[Curmudgeon]

Grapple and Pin are not monk special weapons and cannot be used in a flurry.
Grappling is done unarmed.
When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired.



You can only grapple and pin in the same round when your BAB gets high enough that tiu get a second attack. You dang usd flurry to grapple.
That's not what the rules say.
If You’re Grappling

When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses. If your BAB is high enough you can both grapple and pin. However, that allowance is not restrictive; it doesn't say "only if your BAB allows you multiple attacks..." If you have multiple attacks for some other reason (such as flurry of blows), the "take the place of an attack" rule still applies.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Grappling is done unarmed.

Is a grapple an unarmed strike?

[Curmudgeon]

Is a grapple an unarmed strike?
Sometimes yes, but not always. You can also use a light weapon or cast a spell while grappling.

[KingSmitty]

Grapple and Pin are not monk special weapons and cannot be used in a flurry.

very true, but grappling and pinning can be used in place of an attack, in this case that would be an unarmed attack.

Since an unarmed strike is a special monk weapon, i can use flurry of blows, and use a grapple attempt in place of one of those attacks.

I see now I'll just have to state my case again with my DM with some pizza and hopefully he sees it my way! :smallwink: