Advice on how to proceed with turning my Cleric into a Lich?

[MonkeySage]

In the character concept, I made my character's goal "become a lich on the path to achieving divine status"... I never thought I would realistically achieve even the first part of this goal in this campaign, but now I'm thinking... maybe.

I'm currently level 1. It will only take me 1570gp to open up a bank. Profits earned from the bank will go towards funding his research, and his eventual transformation.

Minimum requirements for becoming a lich, that I can tell: Must be a caster, CL=11+, 120kgp for the phylactery.

Vaguely speaking, how might I proceed from here?

[Karl Aegis]

Hire some Valkyries and some Panzer Knights and start a mercenary company. The Valkyrie's PPC and rail gun should provide enough covering fire for your motorcycles to charge in with their lances. Easy combats, easy money.

[Bad Wolf]

Hire some Valkyries and some Panzer Knights and start a mercenary company. The Valkyrie's PPC and rail gun should provide enough covering fire for your motorcycles to charge in with their lances. Easy combats, easy money.

...What?

Anyway, try using Wall of Salt and selling the salt for 1 gp a pound.

[kaoskonfety]

...What?

Anyway, try using Wall of Salt and selling the salt for 1 gp a pound.

I believe the semi-nonsense was the question:
What game system? As this will HEAVILY impact the exact steps needed to DM handwave ratios we are talking about as well as what those exact steps may be.

and if it wasn't the question: sorry, I'm asking it now.

[Thrudd]

In the character concept, I made my character's goal "become a lich on the path to achieving divine status"... I never thought I would realistically achieve even the first part of this goal in this campaign, but now I'm thinking... maybe.

I'm currently level 1. It will only take me 1570gp to open up a bank. Profits earned from the bank will go towards funding his research, and his eventual transformation.

Minimum requirements for becoming a lich, that I can tell: Must be a caster, CL=11+, 120kgp for the phylactery.

Vaguely speaking, how might I proceed from here?

Ask your DM how it works to become a lich in your setting, if it is even possible. Usually it is a magic user rather than a cleric, because you might need a specific spell like magic jar.

Level 1 is quite premature to be thinking about it.

Edit: if your DM is clever, he will require your character to discover through play how and if it is possible, rather than just telling you stuff your character probably doesn't/shouldn't know yet. So ask the questions and do research in-character.

[MonkeySage]

Pathfinder game system, and he is a faithless cleric with the death and soul domains.

[kaoskonfety]

I believe pathfinder/D&D 3.whatever has rather clear rules for pulling off the Lich transformation. So thats one thing in your favour. I do not know these rules off hand however and don't own the Pathfinder books. Make sure you have the needed spell access - the list is specific. If not: discuss with DM.

- Selling spell services (healing) whenever you can, sell cheap if you have to, save/invest those silver pieces
- demand pay for services in general/seek out paying quests
- magic item creation in general, healing potions and small wonderous items

Steping back a bit I'd encourage in character research/experimentation as you advance
- Be THAT necromancer with some undead mice in a box and a switch to turn them on and off (your discoveries may have profitable/non-combat uses - as a funny example: undead bean counters -> necromantic counting machines -> crude computers powered by unlife -> S.H.O.D.A.N, but more evil)
- discet things, living and dead, examine what life MEANS
- act like you have a long term plan and be mindful of making potental enemies that are also immortal or may be very long lived (Aboeths, other undead, elven kingdoms)

And the last step back - is the DM cool with this?
Regardless of rules support they will need to approve this choice/action - you can strive to be a lich but, lacking DM buy in, its going to be hard, with DM opposition its going to be nearly/totally impossible (I'd let a player SEEK lichdom in almost any D&D game, but I've had a few where the "will I succeed?" would come back "I'd advise against trying, strongly, Good luck - you maniac" instead of, "I don't see why not" - and I'm am large fan of never say no)

[Spore]

A phylactery is very expensive and being able to suidice mission yourself is beyond powerful. It's not the lichdom and fluff that is opposed by many DMs but the sheer power and free resurrection provided by a single magic item.

[atemu1234]

A phylactery is very expensive and being able to suidice mission yourself is beyond powerful. It's not the lichdom and fluff that is opposed by many DMs but the sheer power and free resurrection provided by a single magic item.

... I've always allowed it...

[Crake]

A phylactery is very expensive and being able to suidice mission yourself is beyond powerful. It's not the lichdom and fluff that is opposed by many DMs but the sheer power and free resurrection provided by a single magic item.

I'd say that's more than covered by the +4 LA of lich, a pretty hefty blow to any caster.

[icefractal]

Just +2 in Pathfinder, although that's still a heavy price. You mentioned a bank - are you using the downtime rules?

If so, note that one of the uses for Magic (the resource) is for the creation of items. This means you can pay half the normal cost for crafting an item if you generate at least 5 Magic a day (or do it ahead of time). The most efficient options to generate Magic are:
Room - Alchemy Lab
Team - Acolyte

Since you're a Cleric, having a cult of Acolytes fits in pretty well. If you can manage to build up four of those by the time you start crafting, you only need 60K gp to make the Phylactery.

Important Note: Due to bad math in the Downtime rules, you only get full value out of your Rooms/Teams if you run each one as a separate entity. For example, the four acolytes:
Four teams of 1 acolyte each: 1.4 Magic (average) * 4 = 5.6 Magic / day
One team of 4 acolytes: 2.6 Magic / day


Now as far as raising that 60K ...
The downtime rules can generate money, but at an extremely slow pace. For example, those adepts? They'd generate 5.6gp / day. *sad trombone* If you have long periods of downtime, it might start to be profitable, but if the campaign is fast moving you won't even pay off the initial investment before the amount becomes trivial.
If you do want to use that method, Adepts aren't the most efficient. So past the initial four, better options include
Room - Pit: The most efficient by far, but you're basically running a bunch of garbage dumps - might be a little unimpressive. And the DM might start wondering how many pits a single city needs anyway.
Room - Statue: Not quite as efficient, but looks cooler, and can generate Influence too.
Team - Laborers: Not flashy, but effective.
Team - Guards: Less efficient, but can switch to Influence once you don't need the cash any more, and your cult will be very well guarded.

Selling your services as a spellcaster is another option. RAW, this pays extremely well. If you're in a city large enough to have full demand, you get 10 * spell level * caster level per spell. So even if we assume orisons are devalued to basically free (which we should, else casters get infinite money), that's a lot of money during downtime. It even says this price is for having it done at the time of day the caster chooses, so you can still do other activities alongside this.
Only issue with this is the DM may put limits on the demand, so don't assume it's guaranteed.

A somewhat shifty method, though thematic for a lich-inclined caster - the Blood Money spell. Get an item to use it (or add it to your spell list by some method) and you can cast normally expensive spells for the price of some Strength damage, which as a Cleric you can easily heal. Then cast spells like Continual Flame and sell the results.


Why all these tricks to get extra money? Why not just build the phylactery out of your normal funds from adventuring?
Because you're already paying two levels for the Lich template, which is plenty. You don't need to be pathetically undergeared as well.
And for that matter, if you're not upfront about becoming a Lich, taking your flul share of gold but never buying anything with it would seem pretty suspicious. Best to finance the undead stuff out of secret funds.


Edit: This is separate from any process for figuring out how to become a Lich. RAW, I'm pretty sure that's just a matter of having a high enough Knowledge (religion), but that's pretty dull. Sounds like the kind of thing that could be a quest - maybe start making connections among dark cults and unethical researchers, get started on the trail.

[DrMotives]

Ask your DM how it works to become a lich in your setting, if it is even possible. Usually it is a magic user rather than a cleric, because you might need a specific spell like magic jar.



What? This is already the 3e / 3.5e / Pathfinder board. Needing magic jar hasn't been a requirement since 2e, and wizards haven't been called magic users as their class name since Basic Rules. Also, there have been cleric liches since 1st Edition. Bard liches showed up in 2e. From 3e onward, any spellcaster can become a lich at caster level 11 with the one required item creation feat, unless there's a good fluff reason why not. I'd have to rule a paladin of Pelor, for example, can't make himself a lich even if he goes epic so at level 22 he has the 11 caster levels to do so.

[Spore]

Personally I'd support the notion too since the player is doing something out of the ordinary (and risking his virtual life for fluff AND crunch). But I would discuss this openly with the DM and tell him that you don't do this to loose caster levels (because this severly hampers the fun of casters at least for ME). So tell him that he may introduce other goodies for the other players along the line to bump their power up to speed.

Speaking of a hypothetical typical adventuring party:
1) Give the Cleric the Lich Template after his elongated quest.
2) Give the Rogue power over the shadows (Shadow companion like the Shadow Dancer, able to cast Invisibility 3/day and Deeper Darkness 1/day as SLA).
3) Give the Wizard access to a huge extradimensional library of spells up to 5th level.
4) Give the Fighter the power to protect others: Shield Other as SLA 2/day and the power of giants to defeat his enemies (Giant Form 1/day).

Of course this bumps up the difficulty of encounters somewhat but the party stays "balanced" within D&D perimeters. It gives the DM leeway to shorten the gaps between classes.