Daredevil (Netflix)

[t209]

So anybody saw this show on Netflix.
I kinda like how they show the consequences of superhero battle on property, which Hell's Kitchen was turned into hellhole after first Avengers movie.
And kinda right thing to do since the current Hell's Kitchen is now a better-ish neighborhood than the one written during 1960s and 70s.
For me, the first episode is decent and kinda show the hook for upcoming episodes
I wonder if prison guard was killed by Bullseye.
So any opinions? Too bad that they didn't remake the old Defenders with Hulk and Dr. Strange (Namor is under Universal Studios while Silver Surfer is under Fox). They're more like local hero version of Avengers rather than ad-hoc organization against mystical threat. Dang the hard on for Avengers in Marvel media.

[Zmeoaice]

I haven't seen it, but I know Bullseye doesn't officially appear, but the sniper might be him.

I also know that Matt wears the black outfit for the whole season. Like seriously? We didn't need 13 episodes of him in that outfit. Although I've seen his red costume and it looks... pretty meh. The 2003 version was way better.

If anyone has seen it, does Daredevil go out and kill people on purpose?

[t209]

I haven't seen it, but I know Bullseye doesn't officially appear, but the sniper might be him.

I also know that Matt wears the black outfit for the whole season. Like seriously? We didn't need 13 episodes of him in that outfit.

If anyone has seen it, does Daredevil go out and kill people on purpose?
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2014/10/jrjrdaredevil-horz-630x519.jpg
Well, this was what the black outfit was based on.
http://www.newsarama.com/23094-daredevil-producers-reveal-who-s-in-and-who-s-not-from-kingpin-to-bullseye-iron-man.html
And no Bullseye, dang.
I wonder how would they introduce spiderman.
A. pre-Avengers years
B. combination of Batman Beyond (Peter Parker was wounded during Chitauri invasion and took in Mile Morales as his apprentice).
C. Ultimate Spiderman (white teenager who would die in Civil War movie)

[theNater]

I haven't seen it, but I know Bullseye doesn't officially appear, but the sniper might be him.

I also know that Matt wears the black outfit for the whole season. Like seriously? We didn't need 13 episodes of him in that outfit. Although I've seen his red costume and it looks... pretty meh. The 2003 version was way better.

If anyone has seen it, does Daredevil go out and kill people on purpose?
Just finished binge watching; responses in spoilers. I will say that I didn't intend to binge watch when I sat down for an episode this morning; you can draw conclusions from that.

I wasn't able to recognize anybody as Bullseye.

We spend a pretty good amount of time with Matt in his street clothes and with other characters, so it's not really 13 episodes of him in the black. I think they could have switched to the red suit a little earlier, but the black one is...functional. It does the job when he's out fighting. I will say that the horns of the red costume work better in profile than head-on.

Your question, though, I'm not going to answer even in spoiler tags. Whether or not he should kill people on purpose is one of the big dramatic questions. Telling how that shakes out over the course of the season would be a gamebreaker. If you want the answer regardless, you can PM me.

[GloatingSwine]

"Does Daredevil go out and kill people" is kinda what the series is about. Also why some problems aren't necessarily solved by punching them.

The show is pretty tightly focused on the story it wants to tell, this isn't Arrow where they just throw characters at the wall and see who sticks, so consequently it doesn't waste any parts of the Daredevil property and doesn't waste time on things that aren't going to eventually matter.

What it does do is put in a large amount of development for all the characters, especially Kingpin.

[Clertar]

The first superhero series, other than Heroes season 1, for which I'll keep the downloaded episodes.

It's like watching a well-done Arrow, instead of a pulpy, Xena-style Arrow :smallbiggrin:

[Chambers]

I just watched 4 episodes and it's great. I really appreciate how they're spending time developing other characters in the story, not just Daredevil. I hope the success of this show will encourage Marvel & Netflix to team up again. Probably just dreaming, but I'd love to see Elektra: Assassin done in the same style.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Show is good, I could live without the "We are on netflix! WE CAN SHOW GOREEE!" thing they are doing, as well as without Fisk pretending he is Nolan Bat and doing the constant threatening whisper

[t209]

So what other teams would Marvel/Disney make?
- Steve Gerber's Defenders (the ad-hoc Avengers with Hulk and Dr. Strange who meet in secret and combat mystical threats).
- New Warriors (including Nova, either Richard Rider or Sam Alexander, which my speculation is that he would crash down to Earth in Civil War to war about Kree-Skrull war or Infinity Gauntlet.)
- Thunderbolts (Since Zemo is going to be in Civil War, I'm pretty sure that it's going to be 90s version rather than Tony's not-SuicideSquad warhounds).
Live Action is good but animated series are bad (at least Web Warriors didn't rely on murdering childhood memories or fan favorites to get ratings).

[BRC]

Daredevil is a wonderful show about a bad egg being brought down by a pair of good Avocados.

[ryuplaneswalker]

So what other teams would Marvel/Disney make?
- Steve Gerber's Defenders (the ad-hoc Avengers with Hulk and Dr. Strange who meet in secret and combat mystical threats).
- New Warriors (including Nova, either Richard Rider or Sam Alexander, which my speculation is that he would crash down to Earth in Civil War to war about Kree-Skrull war or Infinity Gauntlet.)
- Thunderbolts (Since Zemo is going to be in Civil War, I'm pretty sure that it's going to be 90s version rather than Tony's not-SuicideSquad warhounds).
Live Action is good but animated series are bad (at least Web Warriors didn't rely on murdering childhood memories or fan favorites to get ratings).

Part of me would love a breaking badesque series where we watch someone good slowly slide into super villainy, like say Doctor Doom and his rise to power in Latvia.

[SaintRidley]

Watching the second episode now. Quite good so far. Now, I'm wondering if when we hear about Creel in the flashbacks if that's the Carl Creel we see in Agents of SHIELD earlier this season.

[BWR]

So far so good. Well, ok if not actually good. It's lacking a bit compared to Arrow, Flash and current AoS, but so far it's better than the first season of AoS (until Hydra broke loose, that is). However, it's just barely started and finding its feet, so it may turn into something better. It has the potential.

[ryuplaneswalker]

RE The ninja at the start of episode 9

THAT IS NOT HOW THAT WEAPON IS USED! well not unless you want to horribly maim yourself.

[Clertar]

I just wish they had gotten an actress who actually spoke Spanish for real to play the Dominican lady xD

[Hytheter]

I hope the success of this show will encourage Marvel & Netflix to team up again.

I'm pretty sure they have like 3 or 4 series already in the works.

[comicshorse]

'Jessica Jones'
'Luke Cage'
'Iron Fist'
All leading into 'Marvel's The Defenders'

[SaintRidley]

I just wish they had gotten an actress who actually spoke Spanish for real to play the Dominican lady xD

Hey, don't need to speak the language to be Latina. Not all of us have family histories which allow for us to speak the language.

[Clertar]

Hey, don't need to speak the language to be Latina. Not all of us have family histories which allow for us to speak the language.

Sure, but she's no chicano, she's a first-generation immigrant with a very poor ESL xD

[SaintRidley]

Sure, but she's no chicano, she's a first-generation immigrant with a very poor ESL xD

She's half Puerto Rican, on her mother's side, and born in New York. In her mother's generation and my grandfather's generation, there was a strong drive to assimilate into white American culture - which meant not teaching the children Spanish. Also, we aren't really immigrants - so even if she had been born on the island, that wouldn't be a very correct designation.

[GloatingSwine]

She's half Puerto Rican, on her mother's side, and born in New York. In her mother's generation and my grandfather's generation, there was a strong drive to assimilate into white American culture - which meant not teaching the children Spanish. Also, we aren't really immigrants - so even if she had been born on the island, that wouldn't be a very correct designation.

I think you're talking about different characters.

He's talking about the old lady in the slum flat not Rosario Dawson.

[SaintRidley]

I think you're talking about different characters.

He's talking about the old lady in the slum flat not Rosario Dawson.

Ah, in that case, never mind that.

[themaque]

Watching the second episode now. Quite good so far. Now, I'm wondering if when we hear about Creel in the flashbacks if that's the Carl Creel we see in Agents of SHIELD earlier this season.

They have officaly said that Yes, that is the same Creel as in Shield, when he was much younger, without powers, and still smei-legit.

[Benthesquid]

I'm a bit torn on Vincent D'onofrio as the Kingpin. I mean, he looked the part, and it's not that he's a bad actor, it's just that he always looks as though he might be about to burst into tears, which is a little weird for the role.

[themaque]

I'm a bit torn on Vincent D'onofrio as the Kingpin. I mean, he looked the part, and it's not that he's a bad actor, it's just that he always looks as though he might be about to burst into tears, which is a little weird for the role.

I saw it that way at first as well, As the series went on I realised it's not tears, it's rage that he's constantly keeping in check.


At the final episode he starts walking and talking a LOT smoother. When he abandons all rpetense at being respectable and really becomes the Kingpin. Or at leaast he will be next time we see him. This is almost as much an origin story for him as well as Daredevil

Now that sony is playing ball with Marvel, I would love to see the Daily Bugle make an apperance on the Netflix shows as well.

[t209]

I saw it that way at first as well, As the series went on I realised it's not tears, it's rage that he's constantly keeping in check.


At the final episode he starts walking and talking a LOT smoother. When he abandons all rpetense at being respectable and really becomes the Kingpin. Or at leaast he will be next time we see him. This is almost as much an origin story for him as well as Daredevil

Now that sony is playing ball with Marvel, I would love to see the Daily Bugle make an apperance on the Netflix shows as well.
So which Spiderman will they choose? All I know is that it will be a teenager and a good choice if you remember One More DayIt's a horrible story where Joe Q retcon Peter Parker and Mary Jane marriage to make him "younger". Even other attempts (miscarrying his daughter in Clone Saga, Gwen Stacy being killed at the bridge, etc.) seem lax by comparison..
- Peter Parker, judging by the fact that he will appear in Civil War and based on Ultimate version, I think he may die to show the collateral damage and child soldiery.
- Miles Morales, a replacement for Peter Parker and may be used to make the movie diverse.
- Both, Peter Parker (adult) got incapacitated during Chitauri invasion and/or retired to raise his family and took in Miles Morales as an apprentice.

[themaque]

- Peter Parker, judging by the fact that he will appear in Civil War and based on Ultimate version, I think he may die to show the collateral damage and child soldiery.
- Miles Morales, a replacement for Peter Parker and may be used to make the movie diverse.
- Both, Peter Parker (adult) got incapacitated during Chitauri invasion and/or retired to raise his family and took in Miles Morales as an apprentice.

I know people reallt want Miles Morales, and I can understand that. But I am willing to put down dollars to donughts that you won't see him for a while.

They are going with a young Teenage Peter Parker, and there is no WAY Sony agreed to let Marvel both introduce and then KILL him in the same film.

[t209]

I know people reallt want Miles Morales, and I can understand that. But I am willing to put down dollars to donughts that you won't see him for a while.

They are going with a young Teenage Peter Parker, and there is no WAY Sony agreed to let Marvel both introduce and then KILL him in the same film.
Even for making way for Miles Morales.

[leafman]

Kevin Feige made a statement that it will be Peter Parker and he will be around 16 years old. I don't think there is any chance Miles Morales will ever get more than a passing reference in the movies. Morales is as unlikely to be Spider-Man in film as we are to get a Spider-Ham movie. I really don't get the love for him (Miles, not Spider-Ham, Spider-Ham is great).

[Kitten Champion]

Even for making way for Miles Morales.

I like Miles Morales, but introducing him to the MCU that way would justifiably infuriate just about everyone short of those who religiously hate Peter Parker and want to see him die.

[t209]

Kevin Feige made a statement that it will be Peter Parker and he will be around 16 years old. I don't think there is any chance Miles Morales will ever get more than a passing reference in the movies. Morales is as unlikely to be Spider-Man in film as we are to get a Spider-Ham movie. I really don't get the love for him (Miles, not Spider-Ham, Spider-Ham is great).
Well, the bad news is that Spider-Ham only appeared on television as Ultimate Spiderman: Web Warriors.
On the good side, at least its Spiderverse story didn't rely on murdering kid-friendly and/or fan favorite characters.
Like Spidergirl's Peter Parker and Amazing Friends.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Finished the season, the ending was great aside form that the only comment I truly have is.

The last episode made me think of this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK-6Td9INxM)

[Dragonus45]

Kevin Feige made a statement that it will be Peter Parker and he will be around 16 years old. I don't think there is any chance Miles Morales will ever get more than a passing reference in the movies. Morales is as unlikely to be Spider-Man in film as we are to get a Spider-Ham movie. I really don't get the love for him (Miles, not Spider-Ham, Spider-Ham is great).

The love fer him is easy to expain, he is just a solid character. His origin story is a heart wrenching twist on the classic Spider-man with Peter himself playing the role of an uncle Ben type character and inspiring someone else to take up his mantle. Which worked so well because Ultimate Spider-man was consistently the best thing to come out of the Ultimate setting so he had a huge head start from that alone. He himself is believable written and has a compelling character with an interesting life and adventures that challenge him deeply and he gets a lot of solid growth. Also his family is also very very well done. Uhhhh I could go on about him for paragraphs really so I'll leave it off here with the statment that all of that aside... No one wants him in a movie because he isn't Peter Parker. Peter Parker is one of the only heroes to Name Recognition on a scale like that of Batman and Superman, he is garunteed money. Even when Sony totally screws everything the character sells. The average person has never heard of Miles, and if they go to a Spider-man movie and don't see Peter may very well riot. It would be like going to see a Superman movie and finding out its acually about Conner Kent. Picture the response of the average movie goer "Yea hes a great character Young Justice was good and had a solid animated adaptation I don't care where is my CLARK ****ING KENT."

[t209]

On the bright side, he won't sell his marriage to the devil to save his aunt. Unless, he knocked up teenage Mary Jane and sold the unborn child.
I am feeling that Marvel Cinematic Universe' decision to make Civil War event before Infinity Gauntlet might make sense than the comics. I mean hero vs hero would end with the need to reassemble against the coming cosmic terror.

[ryuplaneswalker]

On the bright side, he won't sell his marriage to the devil to save his aunt. Unless, he knocked up teenage Mary Jane and sold the unborn child.
I am feeling that Marvel Cinematic Universe' decision to make Civil War event before Infinity Gauntlet might make sense than the comics. I mean hero vs hero would end with the need to reassemble against the coming cosmic terror.

The thing about Civil War is that, the basic idea of it is not bad.

Mutant Registration is been a storyline that has been done a billion times across Xmen franchises with no real problem.

The Problem with Civil War is that, they had people act completely, insanely and utterly Out of Character to make it happen, and then proceeded to turn it into a very thinly Veiled pot shot at "Tem EVILZ Rurdpublicans!!!!!" and then Green Goblin got put in charge of SHEILD.

I trust the MCU to do much better than that, my guess for Civil War is that.

Captain will be a Neutral Party, doing what he can to protect Civilians in a fight between two sides, both of which have good points, and bad points. In the end Captain Sacrifices his life to end things..which allows them to "bring him back" in the darkest hour of the Infinity War.

[themaque]

and then Green Goblin got put in charge of SHEILD.

That was one side affect I really liked from Civil War actually. Them taking Osborn into a larger playing field rather than just being a Spider-Foil. They wrote him to be a Lex Luthor light. It worked for me, especialy in the Thunderbolts.

I wasn't realyl thrilled on the direction it seemed to be going with Norman in charge. I'm not a real anti-hero fan but I ended up really enjoying their storylines.

I would like to see them keep Norman as that level of villain if possible. (I doubt it with how far they drug him down at the end)

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Sunday and today I watched all 13 of the show... and I am like the only person who disliked it.

To be fair if this came out 12 or 13 years ago, I would have loved it. The problem is it seemed to fall into the old marvel movie traps (like x-men 1, and punisher 2). Having watched arrow (that I think handled the whole ide better but not perfect), Agents of Shield (that had to find it's stride and didn't start off much better then this), and Flash (that hit the ground running, pun intended) I just expected more.

if they had cut half of the episodes, ended eap 1 where eap 3 ended, then jumped into stick in eap 2 or 3, and the hand ninja right after, then eap 5 or 6 be what was eap 13... then have dare devil going against a in prison Fisk for the second half would have felt better...

spending 12 1/2 hours without body armor at all, and 6 1/2 hours without his trade mark fighting sticks smacks of slow build for no reason... in the movies they are claiming "no more origin stories" but this felt like 10-11 hours of origin....



I heard another review that loved the gritty everyman quality... but it felt forced....

on one hand we have the night nurse, and I love the idea... but if you are going to say he needs med attention, and is so bad his lung collapses, then how does he just get back up... but then we learn he 'heals fast' from meditation... so witch is it? having your cake and eating it too?

the question of killing comes up a lot, but
it comes off as "Hulk doesn't kill" stupidity... I mean really droping a fire extinguisher multi floors on someone is loony toons physics. and 3 or 4 floor drop into the dumpster is worse. There is no way you can tell me that guy survived on purpose, it was a dice roll at best... It reminds me of Hulk throwing a tank into a helicopter, then as it explodes everyone gets out so we can claim hulk doesn't kill...

for such a hard dramtic "should I or Shouldn't I he sure lite someone on fire....


Daredevil is on par with high tear street level heroes... but in this who beats him up... the Russian mod... I mean really, if he can't fight some thugs then what is he doing? but it is really inconsistent too sometimes he can fight an army, other times not. He can fight as well as the plot needs


The lawyering was a disappointment as well

we have 2 trials, and one was a basic set up to intro the main female lead, and the second was to get a real killer off... come on we couldn't get one trail that needed daredevil to collect evidence to clair a wrongly accused guy? I mean really...


Over all I give on a 1-10 scale most of the episodes a 3 or 4, with the first one, seventh one and 12th and 13th ones being solid 7's... but all in all a disappointment.

I wanted this to feel like I felt coming out of captain America, or thor... not the best movies (Iron man 1, guardians, and Avengers) but still really psyched... instead I walked out like I did form Iron Man 2 and the orginal Dare devil with Affleck... saying "Not bad, but you could do better..."


now there were some good things... like shooting dumb topes in the face...


Foggy saving the day more then onces... yes he wasn't just comic relief or a burden

The love triangle was really just sexual tension, and no one was doing anything dumb

and my biggest love... No one controls everything... that's right boys and girls when a corrupt cop or two are the problem, call the FBI... because no one owns everyone



but there was also some waste in there

Ben Ulrich didn't need to die... he was a good character with strong legs and a good actor, and at that stage there was no need to up the antie... it felt cheep and tacked on. I can't imagine why in the writers room this was even pitched, let alone get all the way to scripted.


good and bad of non spoiler is the look. Great art and direction, and the fight choreographers worked over time... but the amount of darkness in some of the fights was a bit over done...


I hope the next Netflix one builds on the strong ending of this one...

edit: power levels:

so the real problem is trying to fit this dare devil in the MCU... in the comics Dare devil is right up there with spiderman in most power checks... better trained but less power... and both of them are one step below captain America. Except in the MCU we have Captain America and Winter soldier who are levels above this Daredevil... and we have Black widow who with less strength and no super senses doing WAY better at fighting against large numbers... heck on Agents of Shields you have Agent May, Grant Ward, and Mocking Bird all with no powers (Daredevil has super senses) fighting people with MUTCH less issues... can anyone imagine any of those 3, or even Trip (who wasn't as good as those 3) going into the Russian mob guy fight and not doing better then this daredevil?

[theNater]

on one hand we have the night nurse, and I love the idea... but if you are going to say he needs med attention, and is so bad his lung collapses, then how does he just get back up... but then we learn he 'heals fast' from meditation... so witch is it? having your cake and eating it too?
Fast healing doesn't have to mean Wolverine-style "bullet wounds are completely gone within a minute". It can mean mending broken bones in weeks instead of months, and recovering from a collapsed lung in hours instead of days.


we have 2 trials, and one was a basic set up to intro the main female lead, and the second was to get a real killer off... come on we couldn't get one trail that needed daredevil to collect evidence to clair a wrongly accused guy? I mean really...
This is a great point.


Daredevil is on par with high tear street level heroes... but in this who beats him up... the Russian mod... I mean really, if he can't fight some thugs then what is he doing? but it is really inconsistent too sometimes he can fight an army, other times not. He can fight as well as the plot needs
...

edit: power levels:

so the real problem is trying to fit this dare devil in the MCU... in the comics Dare devil is right up there with spiderman in most power checks... better trained but less power... and both of them are one step below captain America. Except in the MCU we have Captain America and Winter soldier who are levels above this Daredevil... and we have Black widow who with less strength and no super senses doing WAY better at fighting against large numbers... heck on Agents of Shields you have Agent May, Grant Ward, and Mocking Bird all with no powers (Daredevil has super senses) fighting people with MUTCH less issues... can anyone imagine any of those 3, or even Trip (who wasn't as good as those 3) going into the Russian mob guy fight and not doing better then this daredevil?
I'm not following this, though. In the elevator fight in TWS, Cap fights 10 guys who are trying to subdue him, and they get some licks in. Against the Russian mob, a heavily injured Daredevil is fighting 8 guys who are trying to kill him. It would be weird if they didn't land some hits on 'im.

I can't compare all the SHIELD agents offhand, but in S1 Ep17(going into the Hub to confront Hand), Ward takes on 9 guys(trying to kill him), and spends some time curled up in a ball on the ground, being kicked by 5 of them. Again, he wins, but he's not doing better than Daredevil.

[BRC]

Also, remember, the events of Daredevil take place over the course of a few weeks, and Daredevil is getting the **** beat out of him in almost every fight. His only recovery is his own insane pain tolerance, and a little patching up from the Nurse.
Meanwhile, he's ALSO doing a full-time job as a Lawyer, so he's not exactly well rested during his fight scenes.


Compare to the Agents of SHIELD, who are probably wearing some sort of low-profile body armor, are well-rested, and not wounded (And receive expert medical care with top-notch equipment for every scratch).

Also, just because the power-scales balance one way in the comics, dosn't mean it needs to balance exactly like that in the MCU.

I always find it hilarious when people act like nitty-gritty characterization or power scales from the Comics are some sort of sacred Canon. Not because adaptations shouldn't be faithful to the source material, but because comics themselves are often wildly inconsistent about things like character's personalities and power levels. Yeah, Daredevil has gone up against aliens and superninjas, but you can probably also find issues where he's beaten up by a handful of nameless thugs with baseball bats.

[theNater]

I always find it hilarious when people act like nitty-gritty characterization or power scales from the Comics are some sort of sacred Canon. Not because adaptations shouldn't be faithful to the source material, but because comics themselves are often wildly inconsistent about things like character's personalities and power levels. Yeah, Daredevil has gone up against aliens and superninjas, but you can probably also find issues where he's beaten up by a handful of nameless thugs with baseball bats.
Indeed, it's well worth remembering that Aunt May once beat up Spider-Man. "Wildly inconsistent" is an understatement.

[Kitten Champion]

Making Matt too strong would've diluted the tone of the series while being problematic for the narrative and its themes of sacrifice and heroism. I'm about half-way through and a question which has never crossed my mind is why Matt's really struggling against the various antagonists in Hell's Kitchen, but he isn't so mundane that calling this a superhero show in the first place seems somehow dubious.

... and as a personal preference, I like the weight the violence has. The whole series reminds me of a pretty good Hong Kong action flick by way of the MCU, and that's what I wanted from a Daredevil film or television adaptation.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Fast healing doesn't have to mean Wolverine-style "bullet wounds are completely gone within a minute". It can mean mending broken bones in weeks instead of months, and recovering from a collapsed lung in hours instead of days.


This is a great point.


I'm not following this, though. In the elevator fight in TWS, Cap fights 10 guys who are trying to subdue him, and they get some licks in. Against the Russian mob, a heavily injured Daredevil is fighting 8 guys who are trying to kill him. It would be weird if they didn't land some hits on 'im.

I can't compare all the SHIELD agents offhand, but in S1 Ep17(going into the Hub to confront Hand), Ward takes on 9 guys(trying to kill him), and spends some time curled up in a ball on the ground, being kicked by 5 of them. Again, he wins, but he's not doing better than Daredevil.

the issue is amount of damage... Getting hit or being knocked down is fine but by making dardevil react like a normal person when no one else ever does makes him look made of cardboard.... I mean even stark doesn't get as hurt without his armor....

[huttj509]

the issue is amount of damage... Getting hit or being knocked down is fine but by making dardevil react like a normal person when no one else ever does makes him look made of cardboard.... I mean even stark doesn't get as hurt without his armor....

It's a different style of show.

Who's a bigger badass? Rambo, or John McClane? The guy who maybe gets some "hero wounds," or the guy who keeps going, when it feels like anyone else would have curled up whimpering halfway through?

[Metahuman1]

The thing about Civil War is that, the basic idea of it is not bad.

Mutant Registration is been a storyline that has been done a billion times across Xmen franchises with no real problem.

The Problem with Civil War is that, they had people act completely, insanely and utterly Out of Character to make it happen, and then proceeded to turn it into a very thinly Veiled pot shot at "Tem EVILZ Rurdpublicans!!!!!" and then Green Goblin got put in charge of SHEILD.

I trust the MCU to do much better than that, my guess for Civil War is that.

Captain will be a Neutral Party, doing what he can to protect Civilians in a fight between two sides, both of which have good points, and bad points. In the end Captain Sacrifices his life to end things..which allows them to "bring him back" in the darkest hour of the Infinity War.

The thing about Civil War was that they'd need to have had about 70-90% of the hero's that were pro-reg fighting against registration or sidelined with some other event going on at the time (The way they did Thor and Hulk to keep either of them form settling it by them selves, not the BS they pulled to factor out the X-men.) in order to make it work. Or have revealed in the event itself that the overwhelming majority of hero's backing registration (I'm looking at you Stark, and you too Richards, and you as well Jennifer. Pym didn't need it being a fascist self righteous bit of garbage is totally in character for him.) were Skrulls and that Secret Invasion was going on and the real reason was to get all the supers either out of the equation or backing the system the Skrulls were now running. If they had done that, they'd have been ok.

But they didn't. And as a result, it made dozens of long beloved characters unsympathetic, unlikeable, and utterly and entirely unreadable. And they STILL haven't properly fixed it. (And anyone who says otherwise, wait till the New Miss Marvel or Miles Morals or someone like that that you all love so much get's destroyed in the upcoming sequel event and then talk to me. Make no mistake, it will happen, Mark Miller, Brian Michal Bendeze and Joe Quesada have not as of yet been unceremoniously fired and blacklisted from marvel yet and until that happens there is no hope of a story line like this being anything but a disaster.)


As is, all it did was show that even if the hero's were trying for peaceful registration for good reasons, it would take less then a second once it passed into law for a Villain to have ever cooperative super on the planet 100% under there thumb, and for that reason it could NEVER be successfully implement and to even propose it was the definition of insanity.

[BRC]

The thing about Civil War was that they'd need to have had about 70-90% of the hero's that were pro-reg fighting against registration or sidelined with some other event going on at the time (The way they did Thor and Hulk to keep either of them form settling it by them selves, not the BS they pulled to factor out the X-men.) in order to make it work. Or have revealed in the event itself that the overwhelming majority of hero's backing registration (I'm looking at you Stark, and you too Richards, and you as well Jennifer. Pym didn't need it being a fascist self righteous bit of garbage is totally in character for him.) were Skrulls and that Secret Invasion was going on and the real reason was to get all the supers either out of the equation or backing the system the Skrulls were now running. If they had done that, they'd have been ok.

But they didn't. And as a result, it made dozens of long beloved characters unsympathetic, unlikeable, and utterly and entirely unreadable. And they STILL haven't properly fixed it. (And anyone who says otherwise, wait till the New Miss Marvel or Miles Morals or someone like that that you all love so much get's destroyed in the upcoming sequel event and then talk to me. Make no mistake, it will happen, Mark Miller, Brian Michal Bendeze and Joe Quesada have not as of yet been unceremoniously fired and blacklisted from marvel yet and until that happens there is no hope of a story line like this being anything but a disaster.)


As is, all it did was show that even if the hero's were trying for peaceful registration for good reasons, it would take less then a second once it passed into law for a Villain to have ever cooperative super on the planet 100% under there thumb, and for that reason it could NEVER be successfully implement and to even propose it was the definition of insanity.
I thought that the original idea was to have both sides equally sympathetic, fighting against each other, but with legitimate disagreements. However, since Subtle takes on moral dilemmas and Comic Books have never really worked well together, the pro-reg side (Being the side with the faceless mooks) ended up the Evil Bad Guys, while the anti-reg (Being the scrappy rebels with Captain America) were the Heroic Good Guys Defending Freedom.

But, the battle lines had been drawn back when this was supposed to be a "Good Guys vs Good Guys" thing, so the "Good Guys" on one side had to be rewritten as evil.

[Metahuman1]

I thought that the original idea was to have both sides equally sympathetic, fighting against each other, but with legitimate disagreements. However, since Subtle takes on moral dilemmas and Comic Books have never really worked well together, the pro-reg side (Being the side with the faceless mooks) ended up the Evil Bad Guys, while the anti-reg (Being the scrappy rebels with Captain America) were the Heroic Good Guys Defending Freedom.

But, the battle lines had been drawn back when this was supposed to be a "Good Guys vs Good Guys" thing, so the "Good Guys" on one side had to be rewritten as evil.

Not according to the people who wrote it at the time. (And as far as I know, even now.).

Cap was ALWAYS suppose to be the bad guy, and they were utterly shocked when there were readers who didn't realize that Cap was OBVIOUSLY the villain and his side was obviously always just flat out in the wrong, period, end of story.

Add that evidently someone, I'm wagering it was Quesada based on the timing of a few other evens and some other things he's said and done over the years (having Sam Wilson's Captain America verbally attack real world political groups Quesada doesn't like as being nothing but a bunch of angry racists in his debut issue as Captain America springs to mind. And yes, I know Disney ordered a reprint with different dialog and made Quesada go out and apologize on behalf of Marvel for that, I've seen more sincere apologies form serial killers.), decided now was a great time to use a well published and heavily marketed event to expound there political philosophy as the one true right political philosophy, which was that the party presently holding the executive branch of the government at that moment in time are pure evil and anyone who's even remotely sympathetic too them or there points of view for any reason is a monster, and deserves to be treated as such.

And that anyone who agreed with Cap was a bad wrong and a horrible person who should be ashamed of themselves, and that this was the first time Iron Man had behaved like a reasonable sensible man in his life and this was the true essence of the characters.

There wasn't anything else too it.





And people wonder WHY I refuse to give Marvels actual comics one red cent of my money and will lobby anyone who will listen who even might buy a comic to do likewise.

[t209]

I thought that the original idea was to have both sides equally sympathetic, fighting against each other, but with legitimate disagreements. However, since Subtle takes on moral dilemmas and Comic Books have never really worked well together, the pro-reg side (Being the side with the faceless mooks) ended up the Evil Bad Guys, while the anti-reg (Being the scrappy rebels with Captain America) were the Heroic Good Guys Defending Freedom.

But, the battle lines had been drawn back when this was supposed to be a "Good Guys vs Good Guys" thing, so the "Good Guys" on one side had to be rewritten as evil.
And many writers of Marvel Studios are locked in Civil War too. Guess we can look at them instead of comics on political commentary.
Here's the thread where we could discuss Civil War and Secret Wars (2015) on.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368556-General-Marvel-Comics-thread/page15&

[Benthesquid]

...decided now was a great time to use a well published and heavily marketed event to expound there political philosophy as the one true right political philosophy, which was that the party presently holding the executive branch of the government at that moment in time are pure evil and anyone who's even remotely sympathetic too them or there points of view for any reason is a monster, and deserves to be treated as such.

And that anyone who agreed with Cap was a bad wrong and a horrible person who should be ashamed of themselves, and that this was the first time Iron Man had behaved like a reasonable sensible man in his life and this was the true essence of the characters.


That... makes no sense. Captain America was on the opposite side of the then current administration. I think you got your wires crossed somewhere.

[Metahuman1]

Nope. Cap was the bad guy. Was always suppose to be the bad guy in that event. According to the writers and editors of said event.

And why was Cap picked as the bad guy and killed off at the tail end you might ask? Why, "Because Captain America is no longer relevant.". I forget which of the three said that, but I do know it was Quesada, Mark Miller or Brian Michal Bendez. (They might have apologized for it at some point afterwords, but if so I missed it, and honestly I don't trust them to make a sincere apology anyway.)


The decision to make it a political "commentary" (Read: Diatribe against the side of the political spectrum opposite the one I the editor who's forcing it in sit on.). was defiantly not a writer choice but an editor choice however. Two the Tune of what Quesada did to the second half of One More Day and to Brand New Day in order to have his perfect version of spiderman be canon again after 30 years. Hence why there was a bit of a disconnect between "Cap is the evil one/The government is right/the government is evil.". Too many Chiefs spoiling the soup, to use a phrase.





And yes I know like a year or two later they decided to bring Steve Rogers back. Contrary to there claim it was not the grand plan form the beginning, it was because they lost a massive chunk of there fanbase to DC at the time cause lot's and lot's of long time marvel fans said "Screw this crap." over the event and the way it and the characters there in and the aftermath were handled. Made worse by One More Day and it's follow ups. Combined with the fact that at that time they knew Marvel Studios and the MCU was happening, and executives wanted Rogers back as Cap in advance of the Captain America: The First Avenger solo movie that they knew they were gonna do before doing The Avengers. Which is just one more reason why Joss Wheadon is amazing and I hate Joe Quesada with the white hot intensity of 10,000 suns.


Why yes I am one of the fans who jumped ship over the crap around that time why do you ask?

[Dragonus45]

Nope. Cap was the bad guy. Was always suppose to be the bad guy in that event. According to the writers and editors of said event.



Could you cite this for me please?

[Dragonexx]

Not much of a citation, but from what I hear, a lot of the problems with the comic Civil War were due to different departments not speaking with each other. The idea of the event was pitched, but the editors (or whoever was in charge) never actually laid down just what the actual clauses of the superhero registration act were, meaning that individual writers interpreted it in wildly different ways, creating a lot of inconsistency between stories and characters. Then to make matters worse, the editors decided that the Pro-registration side were right all along, despite no buildup or foreshadowing to that, making the whole endeavor one big cluster****.

(Incidentally, I never got what was up with the whole "heroes acting like douchebags" trend. Anyone care to explain?)

[The New Bruceski]

Netflix added descriptive audio for the blind, and it makes the show sound like a pulp action novel.

(Episode 4 spoilers, really, don't spoil this for yourself if you ain't there yet.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uybTJ7kUdb4

[Kitten Champion]

Netflix added descriptive audio for the blind, and it makes the show sound like a pulp action novel.

(Episode 4 spoilers, really, don't spoil this for yourself if you ain't there yet.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uybTJ7kUdb4

That's all kinds of awesome.

[Benthesquid]

Nope. Cap was the bad guy. Was always suppose to be the bad guy in that event. According to the writers and editors of said event.

And why was Cap picked as the bad guy and killed off at the tail end you might ask? Why, "Because Captain America is no longer relevant.". I forget which of the three said that, but I do know it was Quesada, Mark Miller or Brian Michal Bendez. (They might have apologized for it at some point afterwords, but if so I missed it, and honestly I don't trust them to make a sincere apology anyway.)


The decision to make it a political "commentary" (Read: Diatribe against the side of the political spectrum opposite the one I the editor who's forcing it in sit on.). was defiantly not a writer choice but an editor choice however. Two the Tune of what Quesada did to the second half of One More Day and to Brand New Day in order to have his perfect version of spiderman be canon again after 30 years. Hence why there was a bit of a disconnect between "Cap is the evil one/The government is right/the government is evil.". Too many Chiefs spoiling the soup, to use a phrase.





And yes I know like a year or two later they decided to bring Steve Rogers back. Contrary to there claim it was not the grand plan form the beginning, it was because they lost a massive chunk of there fanbase to DC at the time cause lot's and lot's of long time marvel fans said "Screw this crap." over the event and the way it and the characters there in and the aftermath were handled. Made worse by One More Day and it's follow ups. Combined with the fact that at that time they knew Marvel Studios and the MCU was happening, and executives wanted Rogers back as Cap in advance of the Captain America: The First Avenger solo movie that they knew they were gonna do before doing The Avengers. Which is just one more reason why Joss Wheadon is amazing and I hate Joe Quesada with the white hot intensity of 10,000 suns.


Why yes I am one of the fans who jumped ship over the crap around that time why do you ask?

Right. So you're saying that Captain America, who was opposed to the thinly veiled Administration was portrayed as the bad guy in order to make a point against the thinly veiled Administration? And you don't see any contradiction there?

[Metahuman1]

I didn't say it made sense. I said it's what they did.

Spider-man One More Day, One Moment In Time and Sins Past, Avengers Arena and Avengers vs. X-men didn't make sense either, but they happened. The fact that it doesn't make sense is in fact part of why I criticize it. Sorta like how Frank Miller being a horrible human being is the major reason All Star Batman And Robin and Holy Terror were such disasters. Nothing that goes on in his head really makes sense, and that's a glaring part of the problem!

[Zmeoaice]

WHAT?!?!? They killed off Ben Urich? Before he donned the red costume! That's bullcrap, he's one of DD's supporting characters. I wanted to see him work with J. Jonah. Screw you Marvel I won't be watching this probably borderline splatter film now.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I didn't say it made sense. I said it's what they did. !

That is what they said they did.

what they ACTUALLY did was the exact opposite of what they said, if they honestly believed they were portraying Iron Man and the Government(read Bush Administration) as the goodguys then they did the worst possible job they could have done and need to go from editing/writing comics to flipping burgers.

[Metahuman1]

Your not wrong. It doesn't change that that's exactly what there convinced happened there.



And people wonder why I utterly loath this event.

[Helanna]

Well I finally managed to finish watching this. I really liked it!


I really liked a lot of the characters. I liked that there was a large cast and a lot of focus and development for the supporting characters.

I also really liked Fisk's whole arc, from being the shadowy figure at the top trying to save the city, down to losing everything and turning against the city. I'm definitely interested in seeing him as the villain again.

The only two complaints I can think of are A) I really wish they hadn't killed Ben - it was predictable, pointless, and depressing for the sake of being depressing - and B) while I am willing to give quite a lot of leeway to comic book adaptations for science and physics, you can't drop people off of roofs and be guaranteed not to kill them. As someone said, it kind of undermines the whole "should I kill Fisk or not" angst when you've had no problem setting people on fire, dropping them off roofs or dropping friggin' fire extinguishers on their heads from three stories up. Any of those could very easily have resulted in death (and did, in the case of the fire thing).

Overall though, I loved it. I'd be thrilled if they did a second season.


I've still got a couple questions though:


I've heard that Madame Gao might be from K'un-L'un, which has something to do with the Iron Fist miniseries? I was wondering where her "homeland" was, if it's further away than China, but I've got no idea what or where K'un-L'un is.

And it's implied Karen's got something in her past - she says Ben found something on her when he was investigating her, and she tells Wesley she's shot someone before. So I really want to know what's going on there.

[t209]

Well I finally managed to finish watching this. I really liked it!


I really liked a lot of the characters. I liked that there was a large cast and a lot of focus and development for the supporting characters.

I also really liked Fisk's whole arc, from being the shadowy figure at the top trying to save the city, down to losing everything and turning against the city. I'm definitely interested in seeing him as the villain again.

The only two complaints I can think of are A) I really wish they hadn't killed Ben - it was predictable, pointless, and depressing for the sake of being depressing - and B) while I am willing to give quite a lot of leeway to comic book adaptations for science and physics, you can't drop people off of roofs and be guaranteed not to kill them. As someone said, it kind of undermines the whole "should I kill Fisk or not" angst when you've had no problem setting people on fire, dropping them off roofs or dropping friggin' fire extinguishers on their heads from three stories up. Any of those could very easily have resulted in death (and did, in the case of the fire thing).

Overall though, I loved it. I'd be thrilled if they did a second season.


I've still got a couple questions though:


I've heard that Madame Gao might be from K'un-L'un, which has something to do with the Iron Fist miniseries? I was wondering where her "homeland" was, if it's further away than China, but I've got no idea what or where K'un-L'un is.

And it's implied Karen's got something in her past - she says Ben found something on her when he was investigating her, and she tells Wesley she's shot someone before. So I really want to know what's going on there.

On Daniel Rand,
Even though he was shown as white in comics, I keep imagining him as Half-Asian like Brandon Lee. I mean it's based on Kung Fu movies.

[The New Bruceski]

K'un-Lun is not a place on this earth, it's one of the cities of heaven. The classic Iron Fist story is pretty much wuxia Mortal Kombat, and since he gets his skills by punching a dragon in the heart it's going to be really interesting to see if they try and hammer his show into something realistic (relatively speaking) or just run with it and have chi fireballs flying everywhere.

As for Karen's past, let's just leave it at "you don't want to know unless there's a season 2 and they make it a plot point then." The comics really used her as a punching bag.

[Mauve Shirt]

Finished this. LOVE. IT. Please we need a Hawkguy crossover. Jeremy I know you like to get fat between movies, but pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

[Kitten Champion]

Finished this. LOVE. IT. Please we need a Hawkguy crossover. Jeremy I know you like to get fat between movies, but pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

You share my dream as well, Mauve Shirt!

[Forrestfire]

From what I read, the reason they killed Ben was because of a miscommunication about Spider-Man in the MCU (more specifically, that there wasn't communication during writing that Spider-Man would be part of the MCU). The writers were under the impression that they only had the character for one season; something about him being at the Daily Bugle, iirc. I'm not sure if this is correct, but it would explain why it happened like that.

I don't have the ability to do real searches to confirm this, so I don't have sources to cite, sorry. Heard it in a few places, though.

[3SecondCultist]

I finished the show last night, loved every bit of it!

There's just so much to talk about, but I actually wanted to start with Fisk instead of Daredevil himself. I thought Vincent D'Onofrio brought it as Fisk, bringing a kind of vulnerability to the role that was needed as a nascent Kingpin. I loved that they turned his loneliness and awkwardness into a driving motivation - despite the odd choice of making it his establishing character moment after keeping him in the shadows for three episodes. Still, what we were left with was a man who was unsure what he wanted, and ultimately this cost him his dream. His personal connections to Vanessa and his mother made him emotional, and clouded his judgment.

And I also loved how that thread continued through Matt's characterization as well, how he was nearly killed in the wake of Elena's death. He went to the warehouse to break his rule, to kill Fisk, and his decision cost him. But at the same time, Matt needs that drive, or Daredevil wouldn't exist. He is a character driven by pathos, by emotion over and above the laws he has sworn to uphold as a defense attorney. So there's an interesting paradox there as well.

[Metahuman1]

From what I read, the reason they killed Ben was because of a miscommunication about Spider-Man in the MCU (more specifically, that there wasn't communication during writing that Spider-Man would be part of the MCU). The writers were under the impression that they only had the character for one season; something about him being at the Daily Bugle, iirc. I'm not sure if this is correct, but it would explain why it happened like that.

I don't have the ability to do real searches to confirm this, so I don't have sources to cite, sorry. Heard it in a few places, though.

That would make sense if it's true. And hey, there's room after they cross DD over with Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and Power Man to bring him back depending on just how super they go with Iron Fist and Jessica Jones.

[BRC]

I finished the show last night, loved every bit of it!

There's just so much to talk about, but I actually wanted to start with Fisk instead of Daredevil himself. I thought Vincent D'Onofrio brought it as Fisk, bringing a kind of vulnerability to the role that was needed as a nascent Kingpin. I loved that they turned his loneliness and awkwardness into a driving motivation - despite the odd choice of making it his establishing character moment after keeping him in the shadows for three episodes. Still, what we were left with was a man who was unsure what he wanted, and ultimately this cost him his dream. His personal connections to Vanessa and his mother made him emotional, and clouded his judgment.

And I also loved how that thread continued through Matt's characterization as well, how he was nearly killed in the wake of Elena's death. He went to the warehouse to break his rule, to kill Fisk, and his decision cost him. But at the same time, Matt needs that drive, or Daredevil wouldn't exist. He is a character driven by pathos, by emotion over and above the laws he has sworn to uphold as a defense attorney. So there's an interesting paradox there as well.


This show was very confident. A weaker actor with the same script could have ruined Fisk. By the script alone, he's not much of a villain, at least as far as "Mastermind" type Villains go. Wesley gets most of the good "I hold all the cards" moments. With Fisk, what we mainly see is violent rages when things don't go his way, and moments of humility/vulnerability. He spends much of his screentime trying to apologize to/appease Vanessa, Nobou, and Madame Gao.

With a weaker actor, this could have gone terrible. Wilson Fisk could have come across as an overgrown child, a thug who lashes out when angry, and somehow gained a criminal empire off-screen, only to spend all his time on-screen losing it.

But Vincent D'Onofrio is just so amazing in the role that he sells the idea of Wilson Fisk as yes, a bit of an overgrown child who lashes out when angry, but ALSO as a force of personality. As a man of both drive and capability. He exudes so much presence on screen that his status as a man worthy of Respect is unquestionable. Therefore, when he's humble before Madame Gao, it's not "Look at this crybaby being shy before this woman" it's "LOOK HOW MUCH HE RESPECTS MADAME GAO"

[Mordar]

K'un-Lun is not a place on this earth, it's one of the cities of heaven. The classic Iron Fist story is pretty much wuxia Mortal Kombat, and since he gets his skills by punching a dragon in the heart it's going to be really interesting to see if they try and hammer his show into something realistic (relatively speaking) or just run with it and have chi fireballs flying everywhere.

That's not quite fair. The "classic" story is much more straight-line HK action with a little bit of mysticism. They could easily hold to the 70s/80s version where he seldom summons the Iron Fist and that it proves very draining when he does. Wouldn't require too much in terms of special effects or suspension of disbelief.

Oh, and...

...he didn't punch Shou-Lao in the heart...at least not to defeat the Undying...he just bathes his hands in his heart afterwards...

[3SecondCultist]

This show was very confident. A weaker actor with the same script could have ruined Fisk. By the script alone, he's not much of a villain, at least as far as "Mastermind" type Villains go. Wesley gets most of the good "I hold all the cards" moments. With Fisk, what we mainly see is violent rages when things don't go his way, and moments of humility/vulnerability. He spends much of his screentime trying to apologize to/appease Vanessa, Nobou, and Madame Gao.

With a weaker actor, this could have gone terrible. Wilson Fisk could have come across as an overgrown child, a thug who lashes out when angry, and somehow gained a criminal empire off-screen, only to spend all his time on-screen losing it.

But Vincent D'Onofrio is just so amazing in the role that he sells the idea of Wilson Fisk as yes, a bit of an overgrown child who lashes out when angry, but ALSO as a force of personality. As a man of both drive and capability. He exudes so much presence on screen that his status as a man worthy of Respect is unquestionable. Therefore, when he's humble before Madame Gao, it's not "Look at this crybaby being shy before this woman" it's "LOOK HOW MUCH HE RESPECTS MADAME GAO"


Exactly! You are correct. I'm really excited to see what they do with his character in Season 2, and what kinds of changes arise from his current situation.

[comicshorse]

Exactly! You are correct. I'm really excited to see what they do with his character in Season 2, and what kinds of changes arise from his current situation.

Is there going to be aseason 2 ? I thought all of these were just one-off series

[Metahuman1]

Were gonna get 1 season each and a Defenders Movie, and I think there gonna look at how well the response went over to the 4 individual seasons and the Defenders Movie and figure it out from there.


Though I heard somewhere that Daredevil at least is gonna cross over with Agents of Shield at some point down the road.

[t209]

Were gonna get 1 season each and a Defenders Movie, and I think there gonna look at how well the response went over to the 4 individual seasons and the Defenders Movie and figure it out from there.


Though I heard somewhere that Daredevil at least is gonna cross over with Agents of Shield at some point down the road.
Kinda sad that it won't be the same without Dr. Strange, Hulk, Namor (Universal Studios), Silver Surfer (Fox), and Valkyrie working together (loosely) and The Elf with A Gun (http://bronzeageofblogs.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-elf-with-gun.html) substory.
Also the heroes' arguing each other was their shtick.
Though I wonder what if they made that for Disney rather than Hulk: Agent of SMASH (imagine Rick Jones having to record strange shenanigans and humorous arguments between Hulk and Dr. Strange) and Ultimate Spiderman (though the show might be better if they go with The Defenders route, Amazing Friends...fighting each other). Then again, you know what Marvel did to Steve Gerber.

[Metahuman1]

Well, Dr. Strange is gonna be in the MCU soon, Hulks there already and not particularly active, and Thor and Asgard are there meaning we could have easily have Valkyrie show up.

So, you can get 3 of them in there in under 1 tv eps run-time I'd wager as it stands.



As for Namor, honestly, I never liked the guy. That said, going after Fox, particularly if the new FF movie isn't as profitable as they want it to be, is likely high on there priority list. More so now that they have spider-man back. I'm sure they'll get both Fox and Universal to play ball soon enough. Disney REALLY wants it all in house while it's still popular again after all. So, don't worry, you'll likely get it very soon.

[t209]

Well, Dr. Strange is gonna be in the MCU soon, Hulks there already and not particularly active, and Thor and Asgard are there meaning we could have easily have Valkyrie show up.

So, you can get 3 of them in there in under 1 tv eps run-time I'd wager as it stands.



As for Namor, honestly, I never liked the guy. That said, going after Fox, particularly if the new FF movie isn't as profitable as they want it to be, is likely high on there priority list. More so now that they have spider-man back. I'm sure they'll get both Fox and Universal to play ball soon enough. Disney REALLY wants it all in house while it's still popular again after all. So, don't worry, you'll likely get it very soon.
Not to mention that we'll also see Bautista going toe to toe with Superskrull or Rocket Raccoon mowing down Badoon with a machine gun if their new movie fails. Kinda hate people who got it as a package and never bothered to use them (like how awesome if Fox had used Fantastic Four vs. Skrulls in the movie).
edit: I wonder how Universal Studios make a movie about him since the only movie they can make with only him is his fight with Jim Hammond's Human Torch (Did Fox own a right to him?) or Fantastic Four (Fox, again)

[Benthesquid]

Marvel's announced (http://marvel.com/news/tv/24478/netflix_orders_a_second_season_of_marvels_daredevi l) the second season for Daredevil already, actually.

[Kyberwulf]

Did anyone else have a problem with the suit? I mean I have mixed feelings about it. When I seen it in pictures and stills I was was meh.. But in the actual show it was .. decent. In the shadows and stuff. However I got a distinct Deadpool vibe from it.

On the fighting. I don't mind the inconsistencies. I mean, as far as I know this was his first run in with people as trained as he was suppose to be. I get the feeling before this he dealt with mostly purse-snatchers and pickpockets. This is pretty much an origin story. So I expect some inexperienced situations.

[Metahuman1]

I was ok with the suit. I like that they finally acknowledged that, no, seriously, there is no way anyone who's even remotely human is going up against gunmen that often with out either wearing armor or dieing in the process with it.

[t209]

So when Jeph said "no Bullseye", does it mean for the whole series or just a season.
Now that Spidey's joining MCU, does it mean Norman Osborn?

[Giggling Ghast]

Finished it this weekend. Great series. Terrific fights.

The only thing I disliked was how Charlie Cox's chin looks in the Daredevil outfit and how him being a ladies' man was a bit of an informed attribute. Technically, Foggy got as much action.

[Metahuman1]

So when Jeph said "no Bullseye", does it mean for the whole series or just a season.
Now that Spidey's joining MCU, does it mean Norman Osborn?

I think he meant for the season. That said, with spidey joining, Norman's possible and indeed, likely. Also, fair chance that they'll use the somewhat more super goings on in Jessica Jones or Mystical goings on I'm expecting from Iron Fist as an excuse to bring Ben back.

[Kitten Champion]

Finished it this weekend. Great series. Terrific fights.

The only thing I disliked was how Charlie Cox's chin looks in the Daredevil outfit and how him being a ladies' man was a bit of an informed attribute. Technically, Foggy got as much action.

Hmm.. costume aside - that's something I think I'd need to see more of for it sink in - I think Matt being labelled a ladies man is more of roundabout way of declaring he's incapable of forming close relationships, something Foggy misinterprets as being a sort of player.

[Giggling Ghast]

No, no. Matt always knows which are the hot ladies despite his blindness and zeroes in. That's what Foggy said.

I mean, Karen's obviously in looooooove with Matt and he got a smooch from Claire, who's played by the beautiful Rosario Dawson, but that's all we can definitively say about his lady-seducing skills. Foggy still had more sex in Season 1 and he's practically a hobgoblin compared to Matt, who's got looks, charm, a perpetual five o'clock shadow and a valid excuse for breaking the physical contact barrier. ("Oh, Angela, let me touch your face to see how beautiful you are." "I'm Doris." "Yeah, whatever.")

[Kitten Champion]

No, no. Matt always knows which are the hot ladies despite his blindness and zeroes in. That's what Foggy said.

I mean, Karen's obviously in looooooove with Matt and he got a smooch from Claire, who's played by the beautiful Rosario Dawson, but that's all we can definitively say about his lady-seducing skills. Foggy still had more sex in Season 1 and he's practically a hobgoblin compared to Matt, who's got looks, charm, a perpetual five o'clock shadow and a valid excuse for breaking the physical contact barrier. ("Oh, Angela, let me touch your face to see how beautiful you are." "I'm Doris." "Yeah, whatever.")

Oh, I know that, and his superhuman abilities are ideal for picking up women, sex as well for that matter. I was referring more to the fact that Matt would really want an actual substantive relationship with a woman that could last for more than a few days, for a variety of reasons.

[Pex]

Finished the series. Marvel Studios really takes their time and effort to make a good, quality story. They care about what they present.

My favorite scene:



Karen kills Wesley. The scene is a classic trope. The bad guy presents a gun to the captive hero/sidekick/damsel in distress as part of an interrogation with or without torture. The hero/sidekick/damsel gets the gun and points it at the bad guy. It always ends in one of two ways. The hero/sidekick/damsel does not pull the trigger because he or she can't/won't/is afraid to kill as the bad guy mocked or he/she does pull the trigger but it's unloaded. Either way, he or she remains a captive to be rescued or escape later as the bad guy puts his evil plan in motion. Not here. The gun was loaded. The damsel pulls the trigger. The bad guy is killed for real. I was surprised and cheered precisely because it never, ever goes that way. It literally was, for me, the first time I ever saw the scene play out like that, the hero/sidekick/damsel killing the bad guy and escaping. I've wanted to see that for a very long time. It was very satisfying.

[Kyberwulf]

He wasn't a bad guy though. It was the underling. Wilsons only tether to being human. It was a trope in it's own way. He loses his best friend, but gains his girlfriend. Who then becomes his new tether. I was hoping they would break with that one. Where a guy basically has to choose between his Best friend, and his Girlfriend.

This also wasn't the h/s/d breaking a trope. This was a flawed character failing to change something from their past.

I am kind of mixed about that, and the Wilson's mom thing. I know they needed to show how much he is a badass. Doing that to someone Iconic though. Just makes it feel like they are trying to be shocking, just to shock... Also kind of weird how out of everyone in the show. The only non-evil people to get offed in the show, (Who are on Daredevil's side) All happen to be minorities.

[Metahuman1]

I honestly think they only reason they killed him was cause of his ties to Spiderman Canon as well as DD canon. And if they'd know Sony was gonna cave and let them have access to the Web Slinger and all that goes with again, he'd still be alive.



Which is also why I think there gonna come up with SOME bs to get him out of being dead at some point down the road.

[Kitten Champion]

The only non-evil people to get offed in the show, (Who are on Daredevil's side) All happen to be minorities.

Well there's Jack Murdock... and while they aren't characters as such, there's also the man Karen Page was framed for killing and the bystanders who were poisoned to death at Fisk's reception.

[Kyberwulf]

The man doesn't count so much, because he is the reason the show starts off. The people don't count because they don't know Daredevil personally.

I don't know why people keep thinking They will have access to Sony at will. As far as I know, it only applies to one movie, for spiderman only.

[Metahuman1]

Because MCU doesn't do one and done isolated stuff really. If it's there, it's a safe bet it's gonna impact the larger universe to at least some degree. Often resulting in multiple appearances/references/appearances of support stuff (The Daily Bugle in Spider-man's case for instance. Or the existence of Stark Industry's or common knowledge of who Captain America and Thor are.).

[GloatingSwine]

Where it has the rights to things completely.

They are able to use Spider-Man in movies, but they are not making a Spider-Man movie.

Sony will be making another Spider-Man movie with the same actor as Marvel which will likely reference his MCU appearance but will be a different thing (and because they are Sony will probably be another stupid reboot origin story because we haven't had that enough times yet)

[Orrmundur]

Sony will be making another Spider-Man movie with the same actor as Marvel which will likely reference his MCU appearance but will be a different thing (and because they are Sony will probably be another stupid reboot origin story because we haven't had that enough times yet)

No no, it's been confirmed officially that they won't be doing the origin story again. Spider-Man will already have been active for at least a few months by the time the movie begins. Rumour has it the movie will be about Peter trying to join the Avengers and have him facing off against the Sinister Six. Which... could work.

But back to Daredevil, I really, really liked the show and can't wait for season 2. It had a distinct visual style compared to the rest of Marvel's offerings and the fight scenes were fantastic.

I highly doubt they'll try to bring Ben back. He's hardly an important enough character for those sorts of shenanigans. Any role he might've played in the future can very easily be filled with another Daily Bugle staff member.

[Kitten Champion]

I highly doubt they'll try to bring Ben back. He's hardly an important enough character for those sorts of shenanigans. Any role he might've played in the future can very easily be filled with another Daily Bugle staff member.


He's also a character on this series, which truly embraced the grittier style of story telling. Any character - let alone someone relatively minor - being resurrected through some kind of magic/fantastical science like Phil Coulson was would undermine their whole direction.

Besides, actors in the real world cost money and don't necessarily want to play the same role eternally even if they were somehow able. An approach like the comics is logically impossible and financially problematic considering the MCU has years ahead of it planned out. I expect Captain America and Iron Man to die - or something similar - relatively soon myself, even though they're their core franchise characters.

[Dragonus45]

I honestly think they only reason they killed him was cause of his ties to Spiderman Canon as well as DD canon. And if they'd know Sony was gonna cave and let them have access to the Web Slinger and all that goes with again, he'd still be alive.



Which is also why I think there gonna come up with SOME bs to get him out of being dead at some point down the road.

Well from what I heard the reasoning was that they were worried about Kingpin being to sympathetic so they needed to have him cross a line, and killing someone with a main character stamp that we had been emotionally attached to was the best way to do it.

[Metahuman1]

They could have simply had him kill his wife while he was tied up watching or something and then just tell him "Hey, news flash, I'll have this crime scene so squeaky clean and such an Air tight Aliby that if you ever so much as whisper what happened hear all you'll do is self destruct, and I'll be there to make sure it undoes as much damage to people like me in your life as is possible to undo." if that was all they wanted.


I REALLY think they also wanted the connection to Spider-man's canon gone because they didn't know till afterwords that Sony was gonna cave in at long last.

[GloatingSwine]

They could have simply had him kill his wife while he was tied up watching or something and then just tell him "Hey, news flash, I'll have this crime scene so squeaky clean and such an Air tight Aliby that if you ever so much as whisper what happened hear all you'll do is self destruct, and I'll be there to make sure it undoes as much damage to people like me in your life as is possible to undo." if that was all they wanted.


That would have been out of character with Kingpin at that point in the series though.

The series had shown repeatedly that he makes snap decisions and gets really violent when he's driven by emotion, that was the whole point of his arc. Every time he actually kills someone personally (rather than by proxy) is when things have gotten personal. This wasn't a "cover it up and make the story die" deal for him. This was "you have personally upset me and I will kill you because of that".

It also calls back to the early series where Urich is talking to the mob boss who thanks him for being the only reporter who left his family out of it. Ben compromised a personal moral point in his pursuit of the truth about Fisk as well, and that made it personal.

They might have planned it from the start as a reason to kill off a major named character and therefore ensure that people knew that nobody was totally safe going into the climax, but it was definitely well developed throughout the series, they earned it in the narrative.

[ryuplaneswalker]

They could have simply had him kill his wife while he was tied up watching or something and then just tell him "Hey, news flash, I'll have this crime scene so squeaky clean and such an Air tight Aliby that if you ever so much as whisper what happened hear all you'll do is self destruct, and I'll be there to make sure it undoes as much damage to people like me in your life as is possible to undo." if that was all they wanted.


I REALLY think they also wanted the connection to Spider-man's canon gone because they didn't know till afterwords that Sony was gonna cave in at long last.


Torturing an Alzheimer patient to death might have been a bit more "Over that line" than they wanted.