Lammasu Warpriest?

[Void Bovine]

So was toying with the idea of playing a lammasu in one of my friends campaigns was thinking going warpriest and 1 lvl of cleric to get prerequisites was wondering if it's feasible

[Troacctid]

You would lose 9 levels of casting over a 20-level build, so it seems pretty subpar. Also, Warpriest is an underpowered class.

[Urpriest]

Pathfinder or 3.5? Warpriest means something very different in each, and the rules for playing monsters are also completely different.

[Void Bovine]

3.5 warpriest from complete divine

[Tvtyrant]

Depends on your party IMO. If the rest of your party is fireball wizards and archer Rogues, go for it. You lose 5 spell levels for none magical flight, pounce, and some SLAs. At level 12 you will have 4th level spells and 59 HP, which will be the high point of your career. However a badly made 12th level caster might have 30-50 HP and blasting spells, so it is not too terrible compared to a low op party.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Unless you can convince your DM to make it at least 8/10 casting, if not more, it's just not a very good prestige class, even for gishing - Persisted Divine Power makes the base attack boost uninteresting, and your casting suffers a lot. The lammasu is thematically nice, but ECL 12 (7 HD, +5 LA) means you'll be CL 7 (racial 7) + 1 (cleric 1) + 3 (war-priest 7) = 11 at level 20.

The class features are not great, either - a number of SLAs, emulating spells already on your list, and not compensating for the slots you'd have gained from spellcasting levels. The ability to protect against and remove fear effects, which you'd be better off getting from a buff spell. A fear aura - nice if you're (with) a fear-stacking build, but 1/day. The capstone is interesting, and hard to emulate (there are spells which do much the same, and better, but they don't work for, say, a crowd in a city).

Overall, demand 9/10 casting, reduce it to 3/4 bab to appease your DM (dodge book after you persist divine power), get the lammasu LA bought off/reduced to +2, and you're now at CL 7 + 1 + 9 = 17, with the war-priest capstone at 20.


Edit@above:

Depends on your party IMO. If the rest of your party is fireball wizards and archer Rogues, go for it. You lose 5 spell levels for none magical flight, pounce, and some SLAs. At level 12 you will have 4th level spells and 59 HP, which will be the high point of your career. However a badly made 12th level caster might have 30-50 HP and blasting spells, so it is not too terrible compared to a low op party.
The bolded part amused me... level 12 is the point before you add cleric or war-priest levels.

[Void Bovine]

59 hp how so? its my own lammasu so stats will be higher also feats would be switched out all monster in the MM are base none of them take into account stat ajustments also I always figure if your playing a monster with high lvl adjustment imp toughness is a must

also I looked at other full bab divine prestige classes fist of raziel and ordained champion are the other options their better and don't require the cleric lvl

[Tvtyrant]

The bolded part amused me... level 12 is the point before you add cleric or war-priest levels.

I am aware. Unless you dip straight into a full BaB/Full casting prc the character gets worse and worse relative to your allies.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I am aware. Unless you dip straight into a full BaB/Full casting prc the character gets worse and worse relative to your allies.
You're totally right, I'm just saying it's amusing. And pointing it out to people who didn't have the lammasu ECL in the back of their heads. I had to read it twice to get the joke :smalltongue:.

@OP Ordained Champion is a nice class, and it'll help you become more of a swift action caster/full-round charger kind of cleric.

[atemu1234]

You're totally right, I'm just saying it's amusing. And pointing it out to people who didn't have the lammasu ECL in the back of their heads. I had to read it twice to get the joke :smalltongue:.

@OP Ordained Champion is a nice class, and it'll help you become more of a swift action caster/full-round charger kind of cleric.

Or maybe refluff Ur-Priest?

[(Un)Inspired]

59 hp how so? its my own lammasu so stats will be higher also feats would be switched out all monster in the MM are base none of them take into account stat ajustments also I always figure if your playing a monster with high lvl adjustment imp toughness is a must

also I looked at other full bab divine prestige classes fist of raziel and ordained champion are the other options their better and don't require the cleric lvl

Improved toughness is definitely a MUST. I would follow it with Weapon Focus and maybe Monkey Grip. The skill boosting feats are always a good choice as well. Diligent is probably the best of the bunch.

[Urpriest]

Improved toughness is definitely a MUST. I would follow it with Weapon Focus and maybe Monkey Grip. The skill boosting feats are always a good choice as well. Diligent is probably the best of the bunch.

Sarcasm is a bit hard to discern on the internet.

Anyway...Lammasus aren't exactly the best of monster races, but they're not the worst either. You definitely don't need Warpriest, it does nothing you'd be interested in. You've already lost five levels of casting, you don't need to lose any more. Definitely stick to full-casting PrCs, with at least one Cleric level to get turning. Urpriest is a bad choice in this case since you'd lose your existing casting. Most generic "good for Clerics" PrCs would work for you, focus on melee since you'll be rather behind on casting.

[Rebel7284]

What about Ruby Knight Vindicator? Sure it loses more caster levels, but at least it makes you acceptably good at melee.

[Troacctid]

Honestly I'd probably just go straight Cleric and look at the race as being equivalent to a 5/10 casting prestige class. That's basically what's going on here anyway.

If I did theurge, I'd go Sapphire Hierarch rather than RKV. Maneuvers don't synergize well with pounce; soulmelds do.

[Void Bovine]

Why theurge I have to take even more lvls? the one lvl of cleric to to ordained champion seems far better I need weapon focus claw to qualify (natural weapon equivalents count) the bab is offset enough by the +12 str mod to give a half way decent atk bonus. Also lammasu would never make it as a pure caster.

Another question am I correct that on a charge the lammasu gets 4 atks at full bab?

[Urpriest]

Why theurge I have to take even more lvls? the one lvl of cleric to to ordained champion seems far better I need weapon focus claw to qualify (natural weapon equivalents count) the bab is offset enough by the +12 str mod to give a half way decent atk bonus. Also lammasu would never make it as a pure caster.

Another question am I correct that on a charge the lammasu gets 4 atks at full bab?

Not exactly.

First of all, the number of attacks you get depends on the weapons you wield, just like it does for any other character. So you'd get two claw attacks on a typical full attack if you only attacked with claws, both at your full attack bonus, but if you threw in a manufactured weapon or (more likely) an unarmed strike then you'd get your full complement of attacks with that due to BAB, then two claw attacks as secondary natural weapons (-5 to hit, half-Str to damage).

On a charge, you get rake attacks as well. While the Monster Manual makes it clear that you get these attacks as part of a normal full attack, the Rules Compendium "clarifies" that you only get them if you manage to start a grapple as a result of your charge, much harder for you than for most creatures with Rake (since they typically have Improved Grab). So it depends on whether you use the Rules Compendium.

More generally, while Ordained Champion is usually pretty cool, you really don't want to lose more casting than you already have, as it impacts your relevance in melee as well. I'd go for more all-round good Cleric PrCs, like Sacred Exorcist and Church Inquisitor.

[Void Bovine]

Other class i was looking at though not sure how it would work with natural weapons cause improved unarmed doesn't do anything as far as I know was sacred fist

Also again fist of raziel no one said anything?

[Urpriest]

Other class i was looking at though not sure how it would work with natural weapons cause improved unarmed doesn't do anything as far as I know was sacred fist

They're just different weapons. Unarmed Strikes are a type of natural weapon, so are your claws, and you can wield both in the same way you'd wield a manufactured weapon alongside your claws (if you had hands).



Also again fist of raziel no one said anything?

Again, great for lots of people, but you really really ought to not lose any more casting.

[Void Bovine]

so wouldn't need feat for sacred fist?

Also with fist of raziel I think I can deal with loosing 1 caster lvl it gets the rest also wouldn't need cleric for it

[Urpriest]

so wouldn't need feat for sacred fist?

No, you would definitely need the feat. It's like if a class required you to be proficient with longswords, and you were proficient with daggers instead. They're just flat-out different weapons.



Also with fist of raziel I think I can deal with loosing 1 caster lvl it gets the rest also wouldn't need cleric for it

You'd still need Cleric for turning, though, if you're planning to make use of any Divine feats, and Divine Metamagic is in general a pretty good way to use low-level Cleric slots.

[Void Bovine]

Cool ty seems like 1 lvl of cleric then fist of raziel is the way to go it's more of test character so if he dies he dies really wanted to go trumpet archon but we never make it to epic lvls just cause it takes so long...