Racial Points

[Thatwarforged]

So I am doing some racial building for my world. The races in the world so far were all built using 11 racial points but some of the thirteen new races I want to add into the world will need more then that, I want to add a baseline RP for all the races in the game should I just increase the total to 13 or 15?
What point total would you suggest?
Sorry if this seems stupid but I really like keeping things around a similar power level.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I just suggest go with it. RP values are only so much; a race can be more or less than the sum of its parts. I would set everything out, then go back and even things up.

[grarrrg]

So I am doing some racial building for my world. The races in the world so far were all built using 11 racial points but some of the thirteen new races I want to add into the world will need more then that, I want to add a baseline RP for all the races in the game should I just increase the total to 13 or 15?
What point total would you suggest?
Sorry if this seems stupid but I really like keeping things around a similar power level.

Racial points are wonky.
I believe a 10 RP difference is the 'recommended point for a +1 CR adjustment'.
So as long as all of your races are within 10 from lowest to highest they'll be "balanced enough".

[Thatwarforged]

Thank you both for speedy replies.

Racial points are wonky.
I believe a 10 RP difference is the 'recommended point for a +1 CR adjustment'.
So as long as all of your races are within 10 from lowest to highest they'll be "balanced enough".

How wonky and why?

[Yanisa]

Thank you both for speedy replies.


How wonky and why?

Ooh, I get to quote myself today. :smalltongue:


I have made a lot of races with the system, it ain't that bad, but in my book it suffers two major problems, both which are apparent once you start comparing abilities.

Sporadic RP assignments - Sometimes its really hard to understand why certain abilities have a certain RP.
Uneven RP assignment - Sometimes powerful abilities tend to have the same or less RP then weaker abilities, or the other way around. (And they sort of try to fix it by having tiers in abilities, but that just undermines the whole idea of giving abilities points in the first place.)

The real problem appears when you can make two races at 10 RP. One is a powerful race that everyone wants to play and one is a mess of useless abilities no one wants to play. You sort of can see that with the core races, how Human have a set of abilities that make them all around perfect, but other races linger between good and horrible depending on the class. And this doesn't have to be a bad thing, but strictly speaking it isn't balanced.

The bottom line; don't get hang up on points alone, do just a dash of common sense and compare/contrast new races to existing races.

[Ssalarn]

Race points are hilariously useless, and serve as only the roughest gauge. For example, duergar with their host of immunities, 120 foot darkvision, and pair of excellent SLAs are 3 RP lower than standard core-only dwarves. You can make a custom race with a perfect stat spread and 5 natural attacks for 7 RP, or a race with an attrocious stat array and the same set of cantrips you get as a 1st level wizard as SLAs and run up 15-18 RP. Even most professional designers and reviewers acknowledge it as a failed experiment, useful primarily as a quick tally system.
I can tell you as a 3PP designer myself, some of the most respected reviewers in the industry actively encourage designers to not try and use it. When I wrote the races for Akashic Mysteries, I designed them the old fashioned way first, and then came back and tallied their RP. Despite the races all being equivalent in design theory and playtest, there was actually a 6 point spread between them (with the race most regarded by playtesters as being the most powerful having the lowest RP).
RP also have the same problem that eidolon evolutions do: powerful natural attacks are dirt cheap, but even minor single use SLAs cost as much as 3+ attack forms.

[Thatwarforged]

Thank you guys. Well I guess I will use it for the rough outline and comeback and even out the actual power level. It is definitely good to know this in the future.

[atemu1234]

Race points are hilariously useless, and serve as only the roughest gauge. For example, duergar with their host of immunities, 120 foot darkvision, and pair of excellent SLAs are 3 RP lower than standard core-only dwarves. You can make a custom race with a perfect stat spread and 5 natural attacks for 7 RP, or a race with an attrocious stat array and the same set of cantrips you get as a 1st level wizard as SLAs and run up 15-18 RP. Even most professional designers and reviewers acknowledge it as a failed experiment, useful primarily as a quick tally system.
I can tell you as a 3PP designer myself, some of the most respected reviewers in the industry actively encourage designers to not try and use it. When I wrote the races for Akashic Mysteries, I designed them the old fashioned way first, and then came back and tallied their RP. Despite the races all being equivalent in design theory and playtest, there was actually a 6 point spread between them (with the race most regarded by playtesters as being the most powerful having the lowest RP).
RP also have the same problem that eidolon evolutions do: powerful natural attacks are dirt cheap, but even minor single use SLAs cost as much as 3+ attack forms.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[stack]

My favorite example of the balance issues: compare dragon type to plant type, both 10 RP. Plants get immunity to mind affecting, flat out immunity. Dragons...get less.