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Piedmon_Sama
2007-04-14, 04:57 PM
Hello. This is another thread I'm making because I seem to have run up a wall in my campaign's storyline. I'll try to make the explanation as brief as I can. The party makeup is: Male CE Halforc Barbarian, Male TN human fighter & female TN human wizard (both played by the same person), male TN elf druid, female CN elf druid. They're all level 6 or 7, except the Fighter who's level 5.

The PCs were hired by a Royal Agent (essentially a policeman for the government) to investigate this town called Easthill, the home of a cult called the Children of Pelor. The Agent, Alexander Doohan, believed the cult's leader was a former mobster in hiding, and that the cult was hiding Johann Zurich, a former Court Alchemist and Wizard who had murdered over a dozen people in the Kingdom's capital city.

So they were exploring Zurich's estate in the village, with the Royal Agent. Inside the house, they found a little girl who tried to run from them in terror. The Barbarian, who only obeys the party's leader, grabs the girl and growls at her to be quiet, threatening her. Bear in mind, this Barbarian has a Charisma of 6. Naturally the girl keeps panicking.

Now, I think Doohan, who's alignment is Neutral Good, has a fairly reasonable reaction. He only just met these people at the Village Gate (they were going to Easthill for an unrelated matter) and recruited them on the spot to help him track down these two criminals. As far as he knows, this Barbarian isn't kidding when he says he eats kids. So he orders the Orc to put the girl down. The Barbarian says he only obeys his mistress, the wizard. An argument develops. Doohan wants them to give him the girl. The wizard wants him to leave so they can interrogate the girl. Remember, this guy hired them and now they're trying to give him orders.

Eventually they leave the girl with the male elf, who's personality is an implacably calm stoner. The rest of the party explores an observatory tower, containing the Zurich's lab and several storage crates. Meanwhile, the girl leads the druid over to Zurich's private study, where he is currently seated. When the elf tries to confront him, the Alchemist sends his flesh golem (built from the corpse of his wife and his dozen victims) through the wall (he was keeping it between the wall of his study and the entry hall) to ambush the druid.

The rest of the party quickly moves to help the druid, though Zurich slows them down with a wand of web. Zurich effectively makes himself invulnerable by casting Mage-Armor, Shield, Stoneskin, and Blink on himself. Meanwhile, due to severely poor luck on the rolls, the Flesh Golem pounds on the Barbarian and the Fighter. The webs keep the female druid from helping (she was the only one who got caught), while the wizardess has been out of spells the whole time.

(In fact, the party had blundered into this counter much earlier than I intended them too. They were still smarting from a fight with a Grey Render Zombie earlier in the village.)

Ultimately things go from bad to worse. The male Druid is K.O'd, at which point the Fighter and Barbarian lose hope. The Wizardess uses her last spell, invisibility on the Barbarian and orders him to flee, while the Fighter is already beating feet like a bloodless coward.

Well, the Golem promptly knocks the Wizard down and disables her with one hit. Meanwhile, the Druid is continuing to bleed out, and Doohan is the last one left. I decide he would save the Druid, who has been pretty amicable, but after his tiff with the wizard, he wouldn't risk himself to save her. The golem finishes off the wizard while Doohan drags the Druid out of the house.

Meanwhile, the other three survivors--the female Druid, the Barbarian, and the Fighter, are running full out for the village's gate, roughly two miles south. The Druid is in heavy armor (Dragonscale Full Plate), so the other two leave her behind as dusk settles over the village.

What the PCs don't know is that the Caravan that took them to Easthill has been completely slaughtered by a mob of ghouls roaming the village. The Orc is still invisible, but the fighter quickly draws their attention. Three failed listen checks later, the Fighter and Barbarian are completely surrounded by about 200 ghouls. Meanwhile, Doohan and the male Druid are heading in a different direction, while the female Druid is on her own.

Okay, here's what was supposed to happen: the PCs were supposed to defeat Zurich and his Golem. In his house was an Artifact: the pickled head of a holy Saint, which created a circle of 75 ft. radius that no undead could enter. That was how Zurich was keeping his house safe, and once the PCs aquired it, it would have created a safe zone for them to rest and recharge.

The next spot Doohan would lead them to was the Cabin of the cult leader, Weltham Finch. They would find the cabin abandoned, but with Finch's journal left behind. The journals would have given the PCs info that would lead them on to the Cathedral in the village's center. See, Finch had been 'contacted' after founding the Children of Pelor as a scam, by a demon trapped beneath the ancient cathedral. Guided by visions, he directed his followers to dig beneath the cathedral, creating a passage to the demon's chamber.

After reaching the cathedral and defeating its guardians (Glass Golems and Gargoyles), the PCs had to insert the Saint's head into a socket on the altar, opening a secret passage to the tunnels below. Meanwhile, Doohan would have stayed behind at Finch's cabin to continue studying his notes, using scrolls of message to communicate with them as necessary.

Well, it seems to me that plan has rather gone to crap. The PCs are separated, panicked, and seemingly screwed. And honestly, I don't know how to keep them alive in this situation. I thought of having the ghouls actually direct the Barbarian and Fighter back to Zurich's house and steal the head so they could kill him themselves. But it seems like that's rather bluntly forcing them back onto the track I had them on before---I don't want to make the PCs' choices for them (I think I've done a pretty good job of keeping Doohan a passive voice so far, child incident aside) but it's really the only way they could survive.

Maybe the problem was that I've been thinking of this as a Survival Horror, run-first-fight-second kind of game and they've been playing it Rambo-style, not trying to conserve HP and spells.... well, I'm open to all suggestions. Thanks to everyone who read this the whole way through, now I'd like the opinion from my fellow DMs.

Jothki
2007-04-14, 05:12 PM
Zurich has no prisoners, right? Have him 'rescue' the Barbarian and Fighter so that he can interrogate them, giving the Druids and Doohan a chance to free them and take down Zurich, at which point they can proceed as normal.

Pagz
2007-04-14, 05:33 PM
Yea, you could have Zurich take the fighter and barbarian as prisioners, (who knows, they might rest then :smallwink:) with them in a prison the other NPC's might get the hint to go help them out. With a few party members dead (and no cleric) you might have some difficulties finding a reason to ressurrect them... ou could have that saints head artifact (in addition to protecting from scary ghouls) have raise dead charges... why not? :smallsmile: This way hopefully your party will be back together, have Doohan and the elf sneak into the prisoner cells and rescue the barbarian and fighter, and sneak attack Zurich (his spells havent been restored yet) and because he's so startled, no scary golem (yay), this should give your PC's time to regroup, and have Doohan suggest they heal up and rest before they go anywhere with scary monsters soon :smallwink:.

Piedmon_Sama
2007-04-17, 12:23 PM
I appreciate the suggestions offered so far (thanks, guys) but I was hoping for more of a consortium. Does anyone else have any ideas?

Maybe the size of the original post is keeping people away; so let me give the VERY summarized version:

The PCs lost a crucial fight they were supposed to win, and lost so badly that they panicked and split up. Now I've got three groups (two PCs, one PC on her own, and one PC with my NPC) running willy-nilly in a heavily haunted village. How do I, without railroading them, help them keep themselves alive in this situation?

Lapak
2007-04-17, 12:48 PM
How do I, without railroading them, help them keep themselves alive in this situation?Well, I've read the original post, and to be honest, there's not much you can do for some of them that won't feel like you're preserving them out of pity and railroading the plot to do it. The fighter and the barbarian are pretty well toast; there's really nothing you can do at this point that is reasonable to save them, and letting them be eaten by ghouls certainly reinforces the "horror" aspect and will cause any followup group to think about avoiding conflict as much as possible.

The druid could survive by coming into sight of the slaughter without the ghouls noticing and skedaddling in the other direction, ironically saved by the fact that the heavy armor slowed her flight from the first threat.

So: the wizard, fighter and barbarian are losses. Doohan and both Druids have survived and fled to lick their wounds; if we allow the female druid to join the other two she can tell them about the ghoul threat.

What is Doohan to do? The time it takes to get back to the capital, warn them of the threat, and raise an army may make the difference between cutting this threat off before it's too late and having hordes of undead spread out from here. Fortunately, the three remaining intercept a small party of mercenary adventurers who were about to travel through the town on the way to Points Elsewhere. (Hello, new characters of players with dead characters!)

Doohan, desperate to salvage the situation, either conscripts them on the spot (if he thinks he can) or promises them piles of gold and treasure for facing down this threat. He rushes to the capital to raise the alarm and sends the adventurers back in to try to stop this madness before it gets worse.

This accomplishes the following:

- The new party has survivors who know what the threats are, allowing them to plan intelligently and avoid things like the ghoul army.
- The threat of death is established as real, giving the players a reason to actually do that planning and to be careful.
- Doohan is removed as a potential crutch, amping the threat up further and leaving them free to act, which means that
- You've taken the plot off rails quite clearly, giving the players the option of saying "screw this, I don't want to die" after Doohan heads out and leaving. While they HAVE that option, I'm betting that they won't take it and will be out for revenge. So you've given them the choice but still gotten the result you want, which gives them a feeling of investment in the game.

Saph
2007-04-17, 12:55 PM
You could try not helping them keep themselves alive. :P

I find that DMing becomes massively easier and more fun once you realise that it's not your job to make the PCs complete the story. Let them be the masters of their own fates - ie, don't step in to save them if they screw up. Some of the most fun sessions I've played in have been ones where the party lost a battle and were scattered.

So just play it as it stands. Somewhere between half the party and all the party dies. The players that died make up new characters and rejoin the party, then either go back for another shot at the same mission or find a new one. Remember, if the PCs can't lose, there's no satisfaction in winning.

- Saph

draca
2007-04-17, 02:08 PM
With so much hinging on the outcome of one fight, contingency plans are a must, because sometimes the dice hate your guts. I don't normally jump in on these discussions, but reading your post has given me an idea or two that might actually help.
(This is gonna be a nice big reply, befitting that wonderfully long post).

The party is split 3 ways (four if you count the fallen). There are 3 main plot points they needed in order to stay on track, as well as getting/being re-united along the way. I'd take the divide and conquer approach. Find other subtle ways to make the information they Really needed to get available. Without railroading, salvation may lie in taking a look at your villain’s perspective.

First: if I were a paranoid mage holed up in ghoul-town and some people attached then fled after a good rout, I might just be inclined to take my artifact that keeps undead at bay and hunt one or two of them down. Assuming that the ghoul hordes will just finish them off is leaving too much to chance, and I read my "How to be an Evil Overlord" handbook. Leaving things to chance when people just tried to invade your home and kill you is a no-no.

This would easily lead to the villain finding the female druid. This would lead that druid to observe that he's holding (or his golem is carrying for him) something as he searches for the remnants of the party: something that is holding the horde of undead at bay. This leaves her with several options. 1) hide (and possibly get eaten) 2) surrender, and thus be saved from ghouls, but at his mercy. 3) follow invisibly inside his protection aura 4) try to steal the artifact 5) run away and try to link up with the rest of the party. But the point is the ball’s in her court and she’s not railroaded.

Second: Barbarian and Warrior. They are in a hard spot. If they can avoid and evade their way to the edge of town (think Sean of the Dead or any other zombie move. Packs of ghouls aren’t everywhere at all times, and can be circumvented). Then they might stumble upon the cabin which they can hole up in, and while hunkering-down in the boarded up cabin they discover the journal.

Third, the druid, the cop and the girl. Also lost in town, if they have the brilliant idea to take cover, a cathedral is often made of stone and has few entrances, usually covered with sturdy doors that can be barred (or blocked off with pews). The cop might think practically and give a few clues. The Girl might - heck she should since she’s been through this mess – know a little of what’s going on and/or how to survive it, even if that’s to head straight back to the wizard’s house. If she had permission to stay there, she might be able to talk truce to Johann (if she had a conscience and doesn’t want to see the hapless strangers get eaten). If she had snuck in, she might know how to hide in there right under the wizard’s nose. I would not see that as railroading, they found in her someone who has already done what they can’t – survive this mess so far. At least in ways that don’t involve direct confrontation which is what they need.

After your party gets safe, you should just have to pull the strings together. If once rested your casters have means to communicate through magic then they might be able to do that for themselves. Or alternatively they just have to survive till dawn, then they can go find each other.

I hope any of this is more what you are looking for. You’ve made me really really want to be playing in this game.

Piedmon_Sama
2007-04-20, 12:53 AM
Thanks for the plans, draca and Lupak. And thanks again to draca for the kind words about my campaign. Saph has a good point too, I really don't want my players to feel like their hands are being held. If anything, I was way too apolagetic when I told the wizard's player she was dead. -_-

On the other hand, the PCs are still not yet a third of the way into the storyline I thought out, and I'd be really unhappy to see all my planned encounters go to waste. Among other things, they have chase scenes through subterranean tunnels involving an army of manes and dretches (nothing sucks more than being chased around by an army of gibbering midget gremlins IMO), and a race against a rival "adventuring party" sent by the Cult of Grazz'zt to reach the heart of the tunnels.

Anyway, I'm taking all the ideas presented so far into consideration. There's still a day left before the session, so if anyone has any further suggestions, please do share.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-20, 01:06 AM
Can the druid wildshape into something for them to fly away on/with?

Piedmon_Sama
2007-04-20, 01:25 AM
Well, he can't turn into any [Large] creatures yet, and even if he could there's no way he could carry out 2-3 other people. Even assuming he only wanted to save himself, the village was six days from anywhere over empty plainlands, so he'd have to find some supplies before trying to journey back.

Matthew
2007-04-20, 03:10 PM
Dear me, two hundred Ghouls...? This party could have really have done with some back up. Why oh why did the Wizard expend her last Spell on the Barbarian? That was a Wizard runs away moment if ever I saw one. Okay, well obviously mistakes appear to have been made on both sides here. The Dungeon Master has created a 'supposed to' plan and the Party has split up (never wise in D&D, never mind survival horror).

As Saph suggests, just letting the party fail might be the best option at this juncture, maybe it will be a learning experience. Still, that might not be the optimum outcome at this point. At the moment, every Player has a living Character, since the Wizard was played by the same guy who runs the Fighter, so at least everybody has a role in the next game.
Draca is exactl right when he says the party needs time to rest up before they take another crack at the town, but accomplishing that does seem to be something of a conundrum at this point.

The Barbarian, Fighter and female Druid are in all kinds of trouble with two hundred Ghouls to deal with and it's not like they can easily outrun them. Unfortunate that there don't appear to be any Invisibility to Undead or Protection from Undead Spells in D&D 3.x, those were always handy, but even if there were you'd be hard pressed to find someone to use them. Still, that mightn't be too far fetched a story angle. Maybe one of the houses (or whatever) in the neighbourhood is protected from or invisible to Undead. The Player Characters could either notice this or perhaps the locale is still occupied and those inside seek to save the adventurers (they might even be survivors of the caravan's destruction). You could move one or two of the adventure hooks or items to that area and kill two birds with one stone.
Doohan and the male Druid are a bit better off than their companions, but the same concerns must be addressed. Doohan, as an NPC, might have some gear that can aid the current situation, such as a Potion of Healing or two or whatever, but bringing the party back together is the best move at this point. Maybe the little girl knows about the protected house and after encountering her, maybe she guides them there.
Once the party is back together, use Doohan to advise them. Have him say something like: "Well my friends, some of us were more fortunate than others this day. It seems we have underestimated the evil that resides here. Perhaps we ought to consider another strategy to meet our objectives?"

That's as much as I can think of for the moment.

the_tick_rules
2007-04-21, 11:33 AM
have you considered using violence on the other players?

Tallis
2007-04-21, 06:23 PM
I don't really have any better suggestions for getting out of this than what's already been said, but I do have a couple questions/suggestions to avoid problems like this in the future.
First: You said that you saw the game as survival horror but the players are playing it like Rambo. Rambo is more the default style of play for D&D in my experience. Did you make it clear that you were running a horror game ahead of time? If they didn't understand that up front it may have been innappropriate to expect them to play that way.
I would love to play in a good horror game, but I'd use a totally different play style than I normally use for D&D.
Second: It seems like your plot is very linear. It would make a great plot for a story, but for a successful game it's pretty much a requirement that there be more than one way to reach the goals. In this case one mistake has led to the derailment of the campaign. Always have a built in way to get the players back on track, preferably without letting them know that this wasn't how you planned for the plot to go.

All in all though, the game sounds like it could be great fun.

Good luck.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-21, 07:15 PM
Have them flee to hallowed ground. A church or something.

Jade_Tarem
2007-04-21, 07:42 PM
Do the PCs know what was supposed to happen? If not...

Modify your artifact - make it keep corporeal undead away as usual, but make it turn incorporeal undead corporeal, within its radius.

The Barbarian and Fighter are mercilessly and messily killed by the 200 ghouls. This kind of violent death only leads to the creation of undead, however, and they both come back - with the ghost template. State that their characters are filled with certainty that they will regain their corporeal bodies should they kill Zurich, and that will spur them in the right direction. Or they can wander around as ghosts. It's up to them.

The Druid + NPC group will head off to hide, somewhere outside the villiage. The NPC, as an agent of the government, knows that the government keeps an "emergency stash" of healing potions, scrolls, wands, etc, outside every villiage in the kingdom for just this kind of emergency. Let him guide the PC there and they can stock up on loots and gear and try to take Zurich down again. Include something that will make the PC confident that he can defeat Zurich and his golem, but not something so powerful that his relative power will increase drastically over the rest of the party. A golem-slaying one-shot homebrew item, a powerful potion, even an alchemical bomb (your PC will love this) can do the trick. It's up to you.

The solo PC has several options. Don't include any kind of hook at all - but set a contingency for everything the PC can do here (generally). Really, this PC only has a couple options.

1. If he decides to rest, time passes such that it takes the same amount of time for the Druid and NPC to rest and gear up at the stockpile. The barbarian and fighter manifest their ghost forms for the first time shortly after he wakes up - at his location, since everyone knows that ghosts always appear near their loved ones, or lacking that, companions. They will probably convince him to either try to find the druid and NPC, or to accompany them to kill Zurich. If he seeks out the Druid and NPC, let him find them shortly before the other two enter the house, otherwise, the entire group re-unites right before the fight with Zurich.

2. If he immediately heads back into town to kill Zurich himself, then the NPC convinces the other druid that there's no time to rest, and he and the Druid + NPC group meet up right in the room with Zurich, which is also where the Barbarian and Fighter manifest, since everyone knows that ghosts always appear near the people that killed them.

3. If he immediately heads out to find the Druid + NPC, he finds the stockpile by chance and meets up with the Druid + NPC there. If he heads out to find the Barbarian and Fighter, then he is also brutally killed and turned into a ghost at the same ambush spot, and the three of them manifest there, since everyone knows that ghosts appear in the place where they died.

Regardless of the actions, the entire party meets up in the room with Zurich, if not before. It is possible to have this happen without it looking like railroading. There, they put the smack down on Zurich and his stupid flesh golem and continue the story as normal - with the melee guys being able to contribute due to the presence of the artifact. There you have an interesting hook - the melee guys have to stay within 75 feet of this jar or go incorporeal, which should alter their tactics somewhat. This can continue until they find a true rez somewhere, because they're sure as heck not going to be able to retrieve their bodies after the ghouls are done with them.

I hope that helps, and that it doesn't turn out too unbalancing. If nothing else, they probably won't see it coming. :smallamused:

I_Got_This_Name
2007-04-22, 12:52 AM
I'll second what Lapak said. The fighter and barbarian will need to be replaced; warn them to have replacements ready before the next session (don't necessarily tell them that they're replacements, though). You said that the Fighter and Wizard are the same player; was the fighter a Cohort? In that case, only replace the Wizard.

I can't really see anything taking them prisoner in this mess, and that's the standard way to save PCs lives in certain death; Zurich's too far out of town to be able to capture them.

I would, though, warn them to adjust tactics and conserve resources.

Also, take any that die in battle against the Ghouls, and bring them back later in the adventure as Ghasts, possibly having kept one or two class levels. They can even get most of their equipment back by killing them.

My own analysis here:
We have four groups of PCs:
Group 1) In the Hereafter: Wizard
Group 2) Approaching/at the village gates: Fighter and Barbarian
Group 3) Behind Group 2: Female Druid
Group 4) Escaped the house: Male Druid and NPC leader.

Group 1 you don't need to worry about. Introduce a new PC and keep going.
Group 2 needs two plans: One for if they escape a fight with the ghouls, and one for if they don't. The latter is easy to plan (introduce the new guys and be done with it), but be ready for the former. PCs have an annoying tendency to survive when you plan to kill them, then die when you didn't.
Group 3 will probably escape, as Lapak said.
Group 4 has the NPC here, and so can be easily railroaded. In cases like this, I can see railroading being justified; the best way to avoid it is to get the NPC out of the action. Lapak's plan works to remove him. However, I'd reccomend railroading this group until the party is re-assembled.

They can't attack Zurich now; he knows that there are people out to get him, and so will be ramping up his defenses. If he has deathtraps, they'll be armed. Otherwise, he has his minions on patrol and Alarms set.

I think the new group would be ordered to contain the Ghouls, with the previous mission as a target of opportunity, rather than to attack Zurich and the cult leader. Leaving them with an area map with the cult leader's cabin marked on it would let them continue the old plot, should they choose to do so; otherwise, they have to hold out for a couple weeks in ghoul-infested territory and wait for the cavalry to get there. Possibly, to encourage them to go ahead with the investigation, have Doohan play up that it'll take him a week to get anywhere, possibly longer if there aren't enough troops nearby, an unknown amount of time to get the troops allocated, and then a week for them to get there. Then they can get sent (hired and/or promised knighthoods) into the Cathedral first.

Also, to help you plan, I'd set aside the next session, after you have any casualties you're going to have (do that quickly), and get the groups back together, for the PCs making their plans; they don't get to put anything into action during that session, but have to come up with the Official Plan (possibly even railroad them into spending the entire session planning by telling them to plan, out of character). You can then figure out what obstacles they will run into when executing the Official Plan, how things might go wrong, and guess how they might deal with contingencies that they didn't plan for; you also have to deal with your contingency plans.

If they decide to wait for the cavalry, Zurich flees and becomes a recurring villain.

You won't be able to get them back onto the old plan without heavy railroading, so scrap it and see what can be salvaged from it.