Weird, huh?

[AvatarVecna]

The Weird spell specifies that a creature that fails the initial save is frightened and that, on subsequent turns, the frightened creatures must save again or take damage. Obviously, a Paladin with Aura of Courage in effect wouldn't be frightened even if they somehow managed to fail the save; what I'm wondering is whether or not their immunity to fear makes the psychic damage have no effect (since the damage is a result of the targets worst fears becoming "real", and the Paladin has no fears to make real). There's a decent argument on the RAI side, but what's the RAW say about it?

[Easy_Lee]

The Weird spell specifies that a creature that fails the initial save is frightened and that, on subsequent turns, the frightened creatures must save again or take damage. Obviously, a Paladin with Aura of Courage in effect wouldn't be frightened even if they somehow managed to fail the save; what I'm wondering is whether or not their immunity to fear makes the psychic damage have no effect (since the damage is a result of the targets worst fears becoming "real", and the Paladin has no fears to make real). There's a decent argument on the RAI side, but what's the RAW say about it?

If you can't be frightened, then you wouldn't have to make the first save and thus can't fail the second.

[AvatarVecna]

If you can't be frightened, then you wouldn't have to make the first save and thus can't fail the second.

That doesn't follow, since the frightened effect isn't the only effect; being immune to fire damage doesn't mean that you don't have to make a save against fireball spells for half damage, it means the result of your save doesn't matter. If, however, said fireball had a, I dunno, a Bestow Curse attached that only affected you if you failed the Reflex save for half fire damage, being immune to fire damage wouldn't necessarily save you from the secondary effect.

[Totema]

RAW is a bit vague here I think, but since it only refers to creatures frightened by the spell as having to save versus damage, I'd find it reasonable that preventing or ending the frightened effect ends the spell for that creature.

[calebrus]

That doesn't follow, since the frightened effect isn't the only effect; being immune to fire damage doesn't mean that you don't have to make a save against fireball spells for half damage, it means the result of your save doesn't matter. If, however, said fireball had a, I dunno, a Bestow Curse attached that only affected you if you failed the Reflex save for half fire damage, being immune to fire damage wouldn't necessarily save you from the secondary effect.

But that's not really an appropriate analogy.

The effect isn't based on the previous save being failed. The effect is based on the condition that failing the save applies. Aura of courage makes you immune to that condition, and therefore it makes you immune to the Weird spell's effects, which are based on that condition being applied.

A more appropriate analogy would be:
If, however, said fireball had a, I dunno, a Bestow Curse attached that only affected you if you failed the Reflex save and took fire damage, being immune to fire damage would save you from the secondary effect.

[JAL_1138]

But that's not really an appropriate analogy.

The effect isn't based on the previous save being failed. The effect is based on the condition that failing the save applies. Aura of courage makes you immune to that condition, and therefore it makes you immune to the Weird spell's effects, which are based on that condition being applied.

A more appropriate analogy would be:
If, however, said fireball had a, I dunno, a Bestow Curse attached that only affected you if you failed the Reflex save and took fire damage, being immune to fire damage would save you from the secondary effect.

This is my reading, too. The (save vs) damage applies to the "frightened creature" (not "creatures who fail their save"). If you're not frightened, you don't save or take the damage on the failed save, regardless of whether you're not frightened because you made your save or because you're immune.

[Fwiffo86]

That doesn't follow, since the frightened effect isn't the only effect; being immune to fire damage doesn't mean that you don't have to make a save against fireball spells for half damage, it means the result of your save doesn't matter.

Technically..... I think you are correct. Being immune to fire, doesn't negate the save throw.

That being said, you are over analyzing this. Why waste the time making a roll for something you are patently immune to? It wastes player time, and is completely unneccessary. Only if there there was a rider effect with the fireball the player is not immune to, should a roll be done.