Help running a guild?

[HockeyPokeyBard]

Last session I kind of, may have obtained possession of a small keep by using unprecedented levels of bullsh** at 3am, and so, the rest of the party and I decided to form a guild based in Old Mastiff Keep. We have banners designed, names, tennants and even a basic rank system.

So my question is this; what should I think about, worry about or hit with my hammer when I attempt to run this guild?

P.S. We may or may be only at 3rd level. As I said, 3am and I am a hell of a talker when I want to be...

[HoarsHalberd]

Last session I kind of, may have obtained possession of a small keep by using unprecedented levels of bullsh** at 3am, and so, the rest of the party and I decided to form a guild based in Old Mastiff Keep. We have banners designed, names, tennants and even a basic rank system.

So my question is this; what should I think about, worry about or hit with my hammer when I attempt to run this guild?

P.S. We may or may be only at 3rd level. As I said, 3am and I am a hell of a talker when I want to be...

Until you have a significant number of people don't make too complicated ranking systems. You'll need to group together a band of people first. Secondly, what service/product will your guild offer? Until you know that there's no point worrying about what else might happen.

[Yuki Akuma]

Are you using 'guild' in the traditional "organisation that serves as a union of skilled workers in a particular field" sense or the MMORPG "group of adventuring murderhobos with a home base*" sense?

* 'Adventurers' Guild' or 'Mercenaries' Guild' or so on

[HockeyPokeyBard]

Until you have a significant number of people don't make too complicated ranking systems. You'll need to group together a band of people first. Secondly, what service/product will your guild offer? Until you know that there's no point worrying about what else might happen.

I am building members and a good reputation base incredibly fast. In the same session we freed a town from the influence of some army tyrants and I healed a collection of people with Leprosy. If we didnt all crash before the session ended, I would probably be reviewing the first batch of applictions as we speak. In a homebrew world where no guilds currently exist and the governments are few and far between, we fill a very big niche

[HockeyPokeyBard]

Are you using 'guild' in the traditional "organisation that serves as a union of skilled workers in a particular field" sense or the MMORPG "group of adventuring murderhobos with a home base*

There are two parts to the guild; the Tempest Knights who act as diplomats, warriors, escorts, bodyguards and warriors for good, and then there's the Tempest Nights who serve as clandestine workers, assassins, burglars etc etc. So in a way we are a collection of skilled workers in a particular field. Its just a very big field. The only real connection is everyone's love of freedom and the motto "Your guild is your family, your family is your guild"

[HoarsHalberd]

I am building members and a good reputation base incredibly fast. In the same session we freed a town from the influence of some army tyrants and I healed a collection of people with Leprosy. If we didnt all crash before the session ended, I would probably be reviewing the first batch of applictions as we speak. In a homebrew world where no guilds currently exist and the governments are few and far between, we fill a very big niche

It sounds more like you're setting up a government than a guild. In which case the headaches are going to be many, especially if you intend to adventure as well. If no guilds exist then start merchanting. Get as many people with carts together as you can and start trading goods whilst hiring protection.

[Daishain]

You need three principle things to hold this together. Supplies, income, and loyalty.

Supplies can be a prodigious issue. It is said that an army marches on its stomach, but much the same can be said concerning nearly any large organization. You can pay for anything in this category, but the less you have to bring in from outside, the better. Not only is arranging local supply sources easier on the purse, supply lines cut in combat can spell death as surely as any arrow.

Income, the bane of organization leaders everywhere. You have a high amount of personal income as an adventurer, but chances are that it is not nearly enough. The cost of feeding, equipping, training and paying hirelings adds up very quickly. Your best bet is to use the guild as a source of income in and of itself rather than attempting to pay for everything on your own (although that is likely to be necessary for a little while). You can hire out guild members for jobs, produce a product of some kind, or even ask the local lords for financial assistance in exchange for certain services.

Loyalty, the least tangible of the three, yet no less important. Loyalty can be bought, but a man who is loyal only to the money coming from his employer can easily be bought by someone else. Fear can be used to ensure loyalty, but can easily backfire and requires harsh acts to keep it up. A cause can inspire loyalty, and is something that one should have regardless, but care must be taken to avoid its adherents becoming fanatics. My favorite method is that of brotherhood. Bind your guildmembers together as though they were kin, and most would rather cut off their own hand than bring harm to the guild.


I am building members and a good reputation base incredibly fast. In the same session we freed a town from the influence of some army tyrants and I healed a collection of people with Leprosy. If we didnt all crash before the session ended, I would probably be reviewing the first batch of applictions as we speak. In a homebrew world where no guilds currently exist and the governments are few and far between, we fill a very big niche
In that case, you have an additional opportunity, and an additional problem.

Set yourself up as an organization independent of any nation, and you can start taking taxes from people in the lands under your control. Done well, this would mostly solve two of the issues mentioned before, but takes quite a bit more in the way of proper organization. I would strongly suggest hiring stewards and others to manage the fine details.

Whether or not you set yourselves up as de facto lords, the governments that do exist are going to see you as a significant threat to their power. And they would be correct in assuming such. Give them reason to want you around, and at the same time, make sure they know that getting rid of you would cost them, a lot.

[HockeyPokeyBard]

It sounds more like you're setting up a government than a guild. In which case the headaches are going to be many, especially if you intend to adventure as well. If no guilds exist then start merchanting. Get as many people with carts together as you can and start trading goods whilst hiring protection.

I know exactly what you mean. Its something the party actually discussed. We have no interest in setting up a government, especially with how the world is at the moment. So far we're using the people we meet on our travels to boost the town near the keep. The town will then grow, attracting more people, leading to more applicants for the guild and more resources availible from the very loyal townsfolk.

But apart from making it very clear that we are a guild and dont want to rule, do you have any suggestions? I am thinking best case scenario it ends up like Magnolia and Fairy Tail from the Anime Fairy Tail.

[HockeyPokeyBard]

@ Daishain

I think we have the loyalty sorted and the resources are handled for now, but until the guild grows we may have trouble with income. All guild members are being taxed 10% of earnings in guild related affairs but is that enough? And how would you suggest I set up a viable income to handle expanding the guild? The DM would be loathe to hand over enough gold to help expand the guild at this level of play but without the gold there's little we can do to gain income. He knows ho easy it is to turn just about any resource into goldas well so do you have any suggestions of what I could offer him as a solution to help without him worrying about me appropriating the money?

[Daishain]

I know exactly what you mean. Its something the party actually discussed. We have no interest in setting up a government, especially with how the world is at the moment. So far we're using the people we meet on our travels to boost the town near the keep. The town will then grow, attracting more people, leading to more applicants for the guild and more resources availible from the very loyal townsfolk.

But apart from making it very clear that we are a guild and dont want to rule, do you have any suggestions? I am thinking best case scenario it ends up like Magnolia and Fairy Tail from the Anime Fairy Tail.
Heh, whether or not you want to set up a government, that is precisely what you are doing. Whether or not you guys have a fancy chair to sit on and issue proclamations, that town is yours to protect, profit from, and yes, rule.

Oh, by all means, you can keep your hands off for the most part. Let the town have its own leaders. But those leaders ultimately will look up to you, and you cannot afford to let said leaders go in certain directions.


@ Daishain

I think we have the loyalty sorted and the resources are handled for now, but until the guild grows we may have trouble with income. All guild members are being taxed 10% of earnings in guild related affairs but is that enough? And how would you suggest I set up a viable income to handle expanding the guild? The DM would be loathe to hand over enough gold to help expand the guild at this level of play but without the gold there's little we can do to gain income. He knows ho easy it is to turn just about any resource into goldas well so do you have any suggestions of what I could offer him as a solution to help without him worrying about me appropriating the money?
My first instinct would be to find out what resources are in the area. Ore and mineral deposits are always a big winner. It doesn't even need to be something obvious like gold. Alum for instance is created using shale rock, and used in dying clothing. Dyed cloth is a big money maker for anyone that can supply the needed materials themselves.

But that would take time and money to set up as well. For an immediate boost in cash, taking down a dragon comes to mind. If an evil but still relatively young dragon has been raiding an area not too far off, you can get quite a few things out of it. Donations from the locals to rid them of the threat, the hoard itself, volunteer warriors that are liable to join you afterwards, and quite a bit of renown. Your main group may only be level 3, but if supported by enough warriors, a young adult dragon can be easily taken down with some careful planning.

[HoarsHalberd]

I know exactly what you mean. Its something the party actually discussed. We have no interest in setting up a government, especially with how the world is at the moment. So far we're using the people we meet on our travels to boost the town near the keep. The town will then grow, attracting more people, leading to more applicants for the guild and more resources availible from the very loyal townsfolk.

But apart from making it very clear that we are a guild and dont want to rule, do you have any suggestions? I am thinking best case scenario it ends up like Magnolia and Fairy Tail from the Anime Fairy Tail.

Essentially decide on what your guild actually does. Is it a mercenary guild that sends people to fight for coin, a merchants guild that trades goods, a manufacturing guild that produces goods... it needs to make it's own niche in order to support the economy of the town that you hope will grow around it.

EDIT: Even in fairy tail from what I understand they're wizards guilds that use their niche in the market to produce money.

[HockeyPokeyBard]

Heh, whether or not you want to set up a government, that is precisely what you are doing. Whether or not you guys have a fancy chair to sit on and issue proclamations, that town is yours to protect, profit from, and yes, rule.

Oh, by all means, you can keep your hands off for the most part. Let the town have its own leaders. But those leaders ultimately will look up to you, and you cannot afford to let said leaders go in certain directions.

Thats true to an extent of any large corporation in the real world or in fantasy. It all depends on your definition of government. We issue no laws to anyone not in the guild, we own no land except that which we have built on, we impose no taxes to the common folk and we maintain no official standing army.

[HockeyPokeyBard]

Essentially decide on what your guild actually does. Is it a mercenary guild that sends people to fight for coin, a merchants guild that trades goods, a manufacturing guild that produces goods... it needs to make it's own niche in order to support the economy of the town that you hope will grow around it.

EDIT: Even in fairy tail from what I understand they're wizards guilds that use their niche in the market to produce money.

As far as I can explain it we would be, probably, a contract, treasure hunting guild. As in we take contracts from across the world and complete them to the best of our ability, occasionally plundering tombs on the side for a giggle.

[HoarsHalberd]

As far as I can explain it we would be, probably, a contract, treasure hunting guild. As in we take contracts from across the world and complete them to the best of our ability, occasionally plundering tombs on the side for a giggle.

So essentially a mercenary guild then? That could work nicely, and promotes a town of varying support industries. As it is though, I'd recommend helping the town set up a town council to vote on matters and have a representative from the guild act as speaker and deciding vote in case of ties. The guild is going to be hugely reliant on the town for food and services and needs an enshrined method of helping guide the town.

[Daishain]

Thats true to an extent of any large corporation in the real world or in fantasy. It all depends on your definition of government. We issue no laws to anyone not in the guild, we own no land except that which we have built on, we impose no taxes to the common folk and we maintain no official standing army.
You are also highly dependent on what the town does and produces and will out of necessity need to maintain some form of influence there. You have also made the town a more tempting target, and will therefore need to act as guardians. Like I said, you can stay hands off, but the relationship is there.

P.S. edited in a response concerning income above.

[HockeyPokeyBard]

So essentially a mercenary guild then? That could work nicely, and promotes a town of varying support industries. As it is though, I'd recommend helping the town set up a town council to vote on matters and have a representative from the guild act as speaker and deciding vote in case of ties. The guild is going to be hugely reliant on the town for food and services and needs an enshrined method of helping guide the town.

I dont like the term "mercenary guild" as it implies that we hit things and thats it. The Night branch actively attempts to avoid hitting things as much as possible and we do offer services as diplomats when needed. :/

As for the town, its currently ruled by a governor of sorts who owes us his life, town and family. Would that be enough to replace an town council or should we subvert him? I would prefer not to because my character likes him but if its for the good of the guild...

[HoarsHalberd]

I dont like the term "mercenary guild" as it implies that we hit things and thats it. The Night branch actively attempts to avoid hitting things as much as possible and we do offer services as diplomats when needed. :/

As for the town, its currently ruled by a governor of sorts who owes us his life, town and family. Would that be enough to replace an town council or should we subvert him? I would prefer not to because my character likes him but if its for the good of the guild...

No no, that governor's a fair point, but I'd ask him to build a council as well in order to handle more day to day things, and ensure you have a hand in his successor in case he dies. It's still a mercenary guild but fair enough if you're afraid of the term. Basically other than that, ensure that you've made decent provisions for the defence of the guild and town. You'll need either to help the town arm its watch, maintain a decent standing force of your own, or a combination of the two, as money flowing into the town will make it a big target, especially if you find yourself on a protracted adventure.

[Daishain]

I dont like the term "mercenary guild" as it implies that we hit things and thats it. The Night branch actively attempts to avoid hitting things as much as possible and we do offer services as diplomats when needed. :/

As for the town, its currently ruled by a governor of sorts who owes us his life, town and family. Would that be enough to replace an town council or should we subvert him? I would prefer not to because my character likes him but if its for the good of the guild...
I'd leave the governor be. It sounds like he has excellent reason to work with you in good faith, which is plenty good enough to begin.

[HockeyPokeyBard]

@Daishain

In response to your income edit, I'm still having the problem that our DM would be unwilling to offer that much in raw gold. Even if we only took a small percentage of a dragon's hoard, at our level that wouls be enough to boost our equipment well beyond where it should be. So I'm looking more for some suggestions on what I could suggest to him to get around this. Some plot hook or adventure maybe tht leads to a reward that we can't just sell but will still give us the boost needed to get us truly up and running. I hae a few ideas but outside suggestions are always a great help.

P.S. We're a mostly good party so unfortunately a gang of slaves won't help here :/

[Daishain]

@Daishain

In response to your income edit, I'm still having the problem that our DM would be unwilling to offer that much in raw gold. Even if we only took a small percentage of a dragon's hoard, at our level that wouls be enough to boost our equipment well beyond where it should be. So I'm looking more for some suggestions on what I could suggest to him to get around this. Some plot hook or adventure maybe tht leads to a reward that we can't just sell but will still give us the boost needed to get us truly up and running. I hae a few ideas but outside suggestions are always a great help.

P.S. We're a mostly good party so unfortunately a gang of slaves won't help here :/
Talk to the DM, you need that influx of cash. Probably the easiest means of reassuring him is to keep the guild's income out of your own purses. Whatever idea you go with, arrange ahead of time for the funds not immediately spent on things the guild needs go into a vault controlled by NPCs responsible for the finances of the guild as a whole.

[Karl Aegis]

You should get some administrative staff and do work in exchange for favors at first. A lot of people won't have enough money to pay for the services of mercenaries that they haven't heard of, but they would be more likely to hire you to kill a large reptile if they can pay you later or in installments while their economy recovers from whatever havoc the reptile caused.

[jkat718]

I'm actually DMing a group of PCs who did basically the same thing. They were hired as mercenaries by the town guard of a new colony to act as outriders (think the Rangers of the Night's Watch from A Song of Ice and Fire) while the Guard did the actual guarding. At the beginning of the town's life, there were so few people that the town was essentially a military camp, so the PCs decided to join or found local businesses: the Cleric joined/founded the local church, the Barbarian trained as an apothecary, the Fighter (with Cook's Utensil proficiency and a background as a house slave) started cooking for the army and later started a restaurant, the Rogue started a casino, the Sorcerer started a school/library, and the party as a whole used a stolen liquor license (a McGuffin from before) to start the first "Shifty's" in town (In all of our campaigns, there is a chain of seedy bars named Shifty's; in this setting, they take the form of a chain of restaurants owned by an old family of wealth, usually as fronts for various Assassins' and Thieves' Guilds). During our last session, they contacted the head of the Thieves' Guild in another town and persuaded him to establish a guildhall in their town, with themselves as the guild's leaders. Eventually, this will lead to them becoming a sort of shadow government, where the lord of the town will be beholden to the various merchants' guilds, the Thieves' Guild controlling the merchant's guilds, and the PCs directing the Thieves' Guild.

Some suggested sources of inspiration:

Medieval Life and Times: Medieval Guilds (http://www.medieval-life-and-times.info/medieval-england/medieval-guilds.htm)
Iowa State University: Medieval Guilds (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~gbetcher/373/guilds.htm)
Electric Scotland: Merchant and Craft Guilds (http://www.electricscotland.com/History/guilds/index.htm)