Grappling Brawler/Monk/Witch and how to put it together

[Neverethe]

I am currently attempting to build a grappler for my PFS games. I have enough XP to jump from 1st level to 3rd level at the moment and really want to get myself locked in and set up how I want before going through with it on Thursday.

All I really know right now is that I really like the idea of the Strangler Brawler Archetype, Maneuver Master Monk (does Flurry of Maneuvers work with grappling hair?) and a possible dip into White Haired Witch for the Natural Attack and access to Constrict. I am pretty new to pathfinder and this is my first real in-depth build I've tried. I am just having a bit of a difficult time trying to put it all together.

One of the problems I am seeing is the White Haired Witch Natural Weapon (hair) does damage based on Int. I am not sure if this applies to the grapple damage as well. Is there a possibility of using Weapon Finesse to increase the damage I would do with all unarmed damage and natural weapons?


In addition, whenever the hair strikes a foe, the witch can attempt to grapple that foe with her hair as a free action* without provoking an attack of opportunity, using her Intelligence modifier in place of her Strength modifier when making the combat maneuver check.

Is there away to nullify this as well into using Dex?

Feats I have considered and have no idea how to work them together:

Improved Unarmed Strike
Feral Combat Training
Boar Style
Sap Adept


I am at a bit of a crossroads here. Any help would be immense!

Thank you from a new player.

[Secret Wizard]

1. A Witch must ALWAYS use INT for the CMB modifier for hair attacks. There's no "may".

2. Grappling is one action, but you need to decide why you are grappling. A Strangler Brawler gets good tools to hold on to an enemy while disabling it with a Chokehold or killing it quickly with a Brawler's Flurry. There's a Monk archetype called Tetori - this guy is the best grappler in the whole game because of its ability to shut down an enemy completely while grappling, but it doesn't have all the tools necessary to KILL a grappled enemy - though it DOES get constrict! The other viable grapple user are Druids - who can turn into Gargantuan sizes for a massive CMB bonus. The rest of the classes are not that awesome at it. Perhaps Lore Warden Fighters, but they lack the versatility and damage of Strangler Brawlers or the effectiveness of Tetori Monks.

3. Whichever way you go, you will want to get a Dan Bong for the extra grappling power.

4. The reason why you don't want Witch is the lower BAB, which hits your CMB. Might as well go with Brawler (full CMB) or Monk (full CMB after level 3).

5. Several options with combat styles... Grappling Style is pretty good but the later feats on that style are not that exciting; Kraken Style is good to amp your damage if you have high Wisdom (this would help a Tetori or a Maneuver Master Monk more than anyone); Snapping Turtle Style improves your action economy and your defenses.

6. Stealth is super important so boost it. Sure, some creatures can see through invisibility, but no one can see through natural stealth rolls.

7. Going DEX-based is tempting but you lose a feat and you need a lot of them. It's viable though, more so for the Tetori (who doesn't need to do damage to be effective for a party). Strangler Brawler probably wants to stay STR.

8. For feats, Imp/Greater Grapple, Rapid Grappler, Bushwhack, etc.

9. If you go hard on Stealth, consider getting at least 15 CHA to go for Improved Eldritch Heritage Shadow --- that gives you hide in plain sight!

10. If you go Brawler, a cool combo is having a dan bong in your off-hand for the +2 to grapple CMB and a scizore in your main hand (for +1 to AC and -1 to attack, but you don't mind the attack penalty since you will be grappling mostly, not attacking). After you get to higher levels and pick up the basic feats, you can start pick Hamatula's Strike, Hamatula's Grasp, Impaling Critical, Imp. Impaling Critical... that gives you a lot of options and quasi-constrict! Plus, with Martial Flexibility, you can take or lose some of these feats at will.

[Neverethe]

A lot of wonderful advice! What I am curious about is if WHW is completely useless for even a quick 2 level dip. I love the idea of having a hair grapple and still having free hands for other grapples.

I am also curious about Boar Style and Sap Adept. I noticed you didn't mention them. So would you say they are not really useful in the way of Strangler Brawler? Ultimately I'd like to dump as many levels in Brawler as possible while using Monk levels to assist this goal. I love the idea of complete and utter domination of an enemy while piling the extra d6 damage on top of them. I read somewhere that with Sap Adept and Boar Style you could easily pile 4d6 damage on at a semi early level. What would a simple framework for something like this look like?

[Secret Wizard]

Sap Adept is just damage. It only works for the Strangler Brawler, and the Strangler doesn't have that many sneak attack dice to justify the feat over Weapon Specialization, which scales with your iterative attacks.

WHW is okay but Grabbing Style allows you to hold the enemy with one hand and Flurry or Brawler's Flurry with your other hand if you are a weapon user... if your main source of attacks is unarmed attacks, however, then Grabbing Style isn't that useful, because you can always grapple with two hands and do unarmed strikes with your head, knees, elbows, etc. So WHW is not that big of an asset and the loss of BAB is saddening.

Boar Style is just 2d6 bleed damage that does NOT stack with Pinning Rend or Hamatula feat bleed for a Brawler, and Kraken Style will outpace the damage for a Tetori. Boar Style's other benefit, having your unarmed attacks count as slashing, is not very interesting either. Boar Style's largest benefit is the fact that bleed damage makes it harder for casters to concentrate, but then again, a grappled caster can't cast for **** either so it's redundant.

[Necromancy]

Body shield feat as well

Couple points to make....

Pure Tetori Monk is key. They have second highest CMB which is nice, but they have the absolute highest CMD which is somewhat more important.

Worry about CMB and CMD above all. Damage is not nearly as important. You could do your unarmed damage for free as part of a grapple check (up to 3 times a round, 6 with constrict) but I find it to be far more effective and fun to damage in new and exciting ways. Grapple can be used to force movement that provokes. Spend a check dragging your prey through your party for multiple AOOs. Their damage is now your damage. Then you can toss your guy right into whatever pit/wall/tentacled monstrosity the wizard summoned (that hungry pit looks hungry!)

Triple grapple check to completely tie up and disable a caster in one round, round 2? Coup de grace!

Sooooo much fun playing this character. Don't forget to cherry pick your race to suit the adopted persona. I recommend a good dwarf randy savage, or a human nacho libre

As far as your stats, I hate to toot my own horn but.....

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406156-Dragon-wrestling-or-proof-that-CMB-CMD-is-attainable-to-the-point-of-being-broken

[Psyren]

Seconding Necromancy - Tetori is the way to go if you want best grappler. It also gets you the grab and constrict abilities you wanted to dip witch for, and some truly nice things like being able to negate freedom of movement.