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View Full Version : Best Use of TWF on a Fighter?



Jeebs
2015-04-12, 04:07 PM
I've been kicking around a Half-Orc Champion 20 build, which would focus on Dual Wielding. I was planning for it to be a crit fishing build, taking advantage of the Savage Attacks feature, but other people have shown how Great Weapon Master's bonus action attack really steps on the one niche I thought TWF had left. Now I've settled on this build as a replacement for the traditional sword and board type, using Two Weapon Fighting, the Champion's access to a second Fighting Style (Defense), and the Dual Wielder feat. Basically I would use Defense and Dual Wielder (+1 AC each) to replace a Shield, and the off-hand attack and the TWF style to replace the Dueling Fighting Style.

I planned to use a Point Buy array of 14 STR, 14 DEX, 13 CON, 10 INT, 12 WIS, 10 CHA before racial increases. Eventually, you could max STR and CON, grab Resilient (WIS), as well as Dual Wielder. I understand that this is not necessarily optimized, but I like to have decent mental stats and to be able to wear Medium Armor for Stealth, Initiative, flavor, etc. Nothing is stopping a similar character from dumping DEX to 10 or below and using Heavy Armor. Doing so could allow you to pump WIS or another mental stat, making the character more versatile and effective in social situations and other non-combat encounters. I looked at using a Half-Elf instead of a Half-Orc for extra skills, but I ultimately decided that I would miss Savage Attacks too much.

I'd use Handaxes to open fights, and then switch to Longswords or some other d8 weapon when I closed to melee range. This build's damage won't compete with a Great Weapon Master, and it still has slightly less Action Surge nova potential than a character with the Dueling Fighting Style, but it seems like a fun alternative to the usual sword and board Fighter.

My question is whether or not this is the ceiling of the Two Weapon Fighting style on the Fighter? Is there a better build, assuming you're playing a Fighter with the Dual Wielder feat?

MrStabby
2015-04-12, 04:16 PM
Are you talking pure fighter or are you allowing multiclass as well?

Tenmujiin
2015-04-12, 08:30 PM
Are you talking pure fighter or are you allowing multiclass as well?

He said champion 20 which is a shame since the best way to push this charcter's damage up would be a short dip into ranger/warlock/vengance pally for hunters mark/hex

Edit: actually, spending one of your crazy number of ASIs on magic initiate for hex/hunters mark would do the trick and let you stay champion 20.

TheOOB
2015-04-13, 12:20 AM
Just a note, TWF is worst on straight fighters, as duelist and great weapon fighting get better the more attacks you get while TWF stays the same. That said, if you were going to do it, A champion is the way to go, leverage those crit bonuses with more attacks.


That said, a dip into paladin/ranger/or barbarian would serve the concept well.

Giant2005
2015-04-13, 12:40 AM
Dual-Wield Lances.

Jeebs
2015-04-13, 09:37 AM
Dual-Wield Lances.

How much do you worry about the survivability of your mount? I'm definitely intrigued by Mounted Combatant (I'd probably use it on an Outlander Rogue), but I worry that I'd constantly be replacing mounts or begging my DM for a stronger one.

Naanomi
2015-04-13, 09:42 AM
I know your build is already set, but in general...
-dual wield lances by being a Halfling and riding a party member
-be a battlemaster more concerned with combat control than damage, use two whips
-multiclass strategically for damage boosts (barbarian for crit fishing; paladin for smite, probably other options out there)

Giant2005
2015-04-13, 10:10 AM
How much do you worry about the survivability of your mount? I'm definitely intrigued by Mounted Combatant (I'd probably use it on an Outlander Rogue), but I worry that I'd constantly be replacing mounts or begging my DM for a stronger one.

The feat adds a lot of survivability. The mount doesn't get targeted unless for some reason you want him to be which leaves him only susceptible to AOE damage but it also gets Evasion too which cuts a lot of AOE damage in half and sometimes erases it entirely.
Also, horses are kind of cheap.

Easy_Lee
2015-04-13, 10:11 AM
If you can stay mounted, dual lances is indeed the best DW DPR possible. It's definitely not intended, looks and sounds kind of silly, but damn if it doesn't work. Keep the lances attached to your mount when not using them, keep some D8 weapons and javelins on your person and you're all set.

The math: one attack with the full crit bonus and half orc feature = 1d12 + 5 + 0.15 * (2d12) = 13.45. You always get five of these at 20, meaning 67.25 DPR assuming all hit.

The rerolling of 1's and 2's from great weapon mastery on a polearm mastery build may still edge this out. However, you can at least focus on other things as a dual wielder. I would consider taking the sentinel feat or keeping a rapier in offhand and taking the defensive duelist feat. Or both. Sentinel greatly increased your likelihood of getting an opportunity attack, while defensive duelist can make you very difficult to damage.

See if you can talk your DM into letting you opportunity attack with both weapons instead of just one. That could make a dual wield build more interesting.

Good luck.