Things to Do/See in the UK (never mind, not going any more)

[Lady Moreta]

After some discussion between my husband and I, we've decided not to go to the UK after all. Thanks to everyone who offered advice and suggestions!

[factotum]

I'm pretty sure that the only *physical* Twinings store is the one in London--their website lists no other, and I've certainly never seen one anywhere around Manchester. I think the basic idea is that you buy from them online.

Have you tried speaking to Serps? She obviously spent a goodly while here, and she hails from your neck of the woods, so her advice ought to be pretty good. As for history/archaeology/castles, we have loads of that available, but the best preserved stuff is most definitely not "off the beaten track". It's not an area I'm particularly interested in myself, so can't help you much there.

If you're using a rail pass, have you considered how you're going to travel from the train station to wherever you're planning to actually visit?

[banjo1985]

I'd never actually heard of a Twinings store - but there are quite a few Whittards tea shops, where you can get all kind of unusual flavors, cool tea sets, and coffee or hot chocolate too. And they do exist outside of London - Bristol and Cardiff both had them last time I visited those places.

Your issue with rail travel is that you're also looking to do things a little off the beaten track - meaning the rail links to those places are either non-existent or rubbish. Our rail travel only really works into and out of London to the big cities, like Manchester, Birmingham, and Edinburgh. Maybe consider a hire car, at least for a portion of your visit, to give yourselves the most freedom to travel?

It's a shame you're not interested in where Shakespeare lived, as Stratford-upon-Avon is a nice place. As for castles and history-type stuff, you're spoiled for choice in the UK - one thing we have is history. We're awash with castles, particularly Wales and Scotland, but Warwickshire castle is good too - they put on jousting and melee combat exhibitions, that kind of touristy stuff, but pretty much allow to wander around as you please as well. If you find yourselves near Birmingham, check out the Staffordshire Hoard at Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery, or elsewhere where it's on tour.

But really, factotum is right - find someone who's visited the UK for advice, rather than those of us that live here - we're too used to the place to give the best advice I feel.

[Lady Moreta]

Have you tried speaking to Serps? She obviously spent a goodly while here, and she hails from your neck of the woods, so her advice ought to be pretty good. As for history/archaeology/castles, we have loads of that available, but the best preserved stuff is most definitely not "off the beaten track". It's not an area I'm particularly interested in myself, so can't help you much there.

I haven't, but I was thinking about it... then again, Perth and Brisbane are pretty far apart :smallamused: I know the best preserved stuff isn't going to be off the track, and we don't mind going to some of the more common places, but I have two degrees in archaeology, so lack of preservation won't bother me :smallsmile:


If you're using a rail pass, have you considered how you're going to travel from the train station to wherever you're planning to actually visit?

See, now that is something I hadn't thought of, thanks :smallsmile: I'm still thinking that we should at least look into the idea of a hire car, but my husband is the one who's good with numbers, so if he says it'll be too expensive, I believe him.

[thorgrim29]

I spent a weekend in London a few months ago so it's still pretty fresh. Definitely do the British Museum, I'm only a history illetante and it was completely fascinating. The Twinnings tea shop is cool for the history, but as far as products go it's nothing special. They have a fairly good selection of loose leaf tea but other then that nothing you can't get in a supermarket in Canada (and I assume Australia). It's about 20 minutes walk from Trafalgar Square.

[factotum]

See, now that is something I hadn't thought of, thanks :smallsmile: I'm still thinking that we should at least look into the idea of a hire car, but my husband is the one who's good with numbers, so if he says it'll be too expensive, I believe him.

I think there are some places you simply won't be able to easily get to without one. For example, there's the remains of an old Roman fort at the top of Hardknott Pass in Cumbria, which is miles from anywhere and on a really steep road--you're not going to get there, or similar places, without a car. Simple solution to that is to not visit it, of course, but there might be places you desperately *do* want to visit that are in a similar situation!

[Aedilred]

As factotum says, and while the rail network is pretty good for all that we complain about it, there's a limit to how far it'll get you. It's fine for getting into the centre of a given town, so for viewing cathedrals, great. But a lot of the rest of the stuff it sounds like you'll be interested in is probably going to be a bit of a trek from the stations, and even many cities don't have great public transport. The distances involved aren't great but historic Britain is pretty decentralised both on a national and local level and it all adds up, especially in terms of time. For some sites, a car is all but essential, unless you want to spend a fortune on taxis and even that might not be possible.

Whenever there's a thread like this it's common for a bunch of people to pop up recommending you visit none of the famous tourist sites at all on the basis they're busy, potentially expensive and you can see them on a postcard etc, which is something I've never entirely understood: it seems a bit pessimistic and cynical and to miss the point rather. But equally only you can decide what you're interested in seeing, so don't let anyone talk you out of something you actually would like to visit. Even if you do go and it turns out to be rubbish, it's probably better than regretting not having gone on the offchance.

Something that might be worth considering, given your area of interest, is National Trust and/or English Heritage membership for the year. Between them they cover a large proportion of interesting historic sites in England (royal palaces are their own thing, unfortunately) and if you're going to visit a lot they could end up paying for themselves.

In London I would recommend the British Museum, Westminster Abbey, the National Portrait Gallery and perhaps the National Gallery. The Natural History, Science and V&A Museums are all excellent if you're into that sort of thing but I'm not sure how they compare on an international level and for the first two at least there are probably better things to see elsewhere. The Tower is worth seeing timewise but is really expensive and a lot of the good stuff has been moved to the Royal Armoury in Leeds. I haven't been to Buckingham Palace or St. Paul's so can't speak for them. Other than that you might well be able to escape without seeing too much of the capital, if you're not otherwise interested.

(If you like tea, I'd suggest Fortnum and Mason's, although wouldn't you have a problem with taking tea back to Australia?)

In many respects you are probably better off talking to someone who's done a corresponding tour of the country, of course. For those of us who live here it's a rather different kettle of fish.

[Capt Spanner]

There's loads of cool things to do and see in London.

I'm particularly fond of the Science Museum and the Natural History Museum: both are free to all.

While in London you might also want to see some shows on the West End. We have Book of Mormon, Cats and Les Miserable running, as well as countless less well known shows.

If you like motorsports, the Lotus shop on Regent Street (right by Picadilly Circus) has Romain Grojean's Formula 1 car from 2011 hanging in the ceiling. There's also a Ferrari F1 car in a shop window further up the road.

Also on Regent's Street: Hamley's. Massive, massive toy store.

If you like alternative culture, check out Camden Market.

[Peat]

You say the end of the year? Do you mean you're planning to be here Dec/Jan? Leaving aside witticisms about people who leave Australian summers for British winters, this could put a serious crimp on your plans. It does snow here occasionally and it often does awful things to our public transport and airports, as we're still not terribly well prepared for it. If you are planning to use the train for most things, this could be an issue.

Anyway, a few thoughts -

If you're willing to look at renting a car for even a few days, I'd consider Scotland or North Wales. North Wales in particular has some of the UK's most impressive castles. Cumbria would also be a good shout.

From the sounds of it though, it sounds like spending time in the smaller, more historic cities is what you're after.

York, Durham and Chester all spring to mind. The former two particularly if you have any interest in Cathedrals. York's good if you like vikings and chocolate. Chester would appeal more to someone with more of a Roman interest. All of those are pretty easy to explore on foot in a day or two.

Speaking of vikings, if you do go north, Lindisfarne Monastery might be worth a quick look, but again is slightly car dependent.

Further south - and if you're in Britain during the winter, that's not an irrelevant concern - you get places like Winchester, Colchester and Canterbury. You might want to reconsider on London - it's a fairly good base for exploring those places in a lot of ways. It also has a lot of history. I can get not wanting to go "Ooh Big Ben, ooh Tower Bridge", but places like the British Museum, the British Library, the Tower of London, the Imperial War Museum - they are good places to go if you like history. The Wallace Collection is well worth a shout if your historical interest extends as far as weaponry and armour. Plus, as mentioned, there's a lot of historical things a fairly short train journey away. Leeds Castle in Kent is meant to be lovely, Lullingstone has a Roman villa and castle worth seeing... and I'd totally shout out for the Isle of Wight, but if you're trying to save money and there's no car, not so much.

Anyway, those are a few ideas based mainly on the history element.

Also, I'd echo Aedilred's shout about the National Trust and English Heritage, and banjo about Warwickshire Castle, which I haven't visited but heard many good things about.

[veti]

I'm getting a slightly conflicting message from your original post: on the one hand you're into history, but on the other, you've no interest in "seeing where Shakespeare lived", which is a well preserved historical site? By "history", do you exclusively mean blood-and-iron? Because that would make quite a difference to the list of potential sites.

Castles (and other medieval ruins) in the UK tend to fall into two categories. There's the ones that have been extensively renovated/rebuilt into Tourist Attractions, with new floors and glass in the windows and safety features such as handrails, and displays all over the place. Those are great if you have kids who are into history, but if you want to soak up the authentic feel of timelessness that comes with seeing the remains of what people were doing seven hundred years ago, I personally find them kinda frustrating. Then there's those that haven't been treated like that, and they're basically crumbling all over the place, with authentic medieval features such as mud and rubble. There are even quite a few that were razed to the ground (mostly, because their owners had been involved in some effort against the crown), and now only the earthworks or foundations remain. If you're really into the whole castles thing, I recommend visiting both types; however, the second type can be hard to find, since they don't tend to be advertised much.

If you're flying to Manchester and avoiding London, I guess you'll be spending time in the North of England and Wales. In December that'll be cold, wet and generally miserable, and more importantly from your point of view, there'll only be 7-8 hours of daylight in the day. On the plus side, there are castles all over the place. If you have some days to spare before you go, it's worth doing some serious historical reading - with a map - so that you have a mental picture of what part these cities and castles played, at various times. (Very few castles in England have ever actually been directly involved in a battle, but that doesn't mean they weren't strategically important at times.)

One thing that may come as a shock to you, if you've never been to Europe before, is the sheer density of England. Looking at a map, you'll see towns and roads everydamnwhere, and it may take a while to sink in that - actually, you're looking at quite a large-scaled map. The population density of England excluding London is more than 30 times that of Queensland. Our idea of "rural" is somewhere like Wales or Scotland, and even those are jam-packed compared with what you're used to. What this means from the historical point of view is that a lot of action could be packed into a very short timescale. You'll see what I mean if you read up on, for instance, the Peasant's Revolt of 1381 or the Jacobite Rising of 1745.

If you're interested in ancient history, then there are basically Roman and Neolithic ruins - very little Celtic stuff, that was mostly destroyed or built over by the Romans. If you want to check out Stonehenge - be aware that you're not actually allowed near the stones, and you'll be charged a small fortune just to walk around them - you can enjoy them almost as well just by driving past, for free, unless you count "sitting in traffic" as a cost... There's a larger, more approchable stone circle at Avebury, although the stones themselves are relatively modest. While you're in the neighbourhood, I would also wholeheartedly recommend visiting the White Horse of Uffington, which is spectacular, beautiful and free. (All these, unfortunately, are car-dependent.)

For medieval and later periods - just keep in mind that it's hard to separate the military history from the religious/intellectual history. Sites like the monastery of Lindisfarne (worth a visit, but requires a car), Durham Cathedral and York Minster, were arguably more important, in terms of determining who ran the country, than the actual castles.


In London I would recommend the British Museum, Westminster Abbey, the National Portrait Gallery and perhaps the National Gallery. The Natural History, Science and V&A Museums are all excellent if you're into that sort of thing but I'm not sure how they compare on an international level and for the first two at least there are probably better things to see elsewhere.

All the above-named museums are world class, and mostly either free or reasonably priced. Other sites, such as Westminster Abbey and the Tower of London, tend to be crazily overpriced. Look up the admission charges before you plan your day.

[Spacewolf]

If you're going to fly into Manchester you might want to spend a day going around the Lake district since it's only 1-2 hours away by train, you could go to Beatrix Potters house, go Kayaking on Windermere and general outdoorsy stuff. The area is also reasonably Famous for its Cakes and Tea houses so that seems like it would be up your ally.

[factotum]

There are even quite a few that were razed to the ground (mostly, because their owners had been involved in some effort against the crown), and now only the earthworks or foundations remain.

Not to mention a whole load of others that were Royalist strongholds in the Civil War and thus got "slighted" by the Parliamentarians when they won (and no, that doesn't mean they stood outside the walls denigrating the castle's ancestry, it tended to involve a lot more gunpowder :smallsmile:).

[Lady Moreta]

Woah! So. Many. Replies. :smalleek:

Thanks guys :smallsmile:

I'll have to go over this with my husband and see what happens... but thanks for the heads-up about the train issue, we'll definitely have to look into that.

[Archonic Energy]

the trouble is there's alot to do in the UK so you should prioritise the things you want to do.
you could literally spend you entire holiday in one city and still not do everything.

as for "rail pass" i'm pretty sure you won't be able to get a standardised rail pass outside of the larger cities as they are owned by separate companies so you'll be getting return journeys or singles.

[Brother Oni]

If you're heading into the Stonehenge part of the world, you may also want to take a stop off in Bath as well, which has the old Roman baths, along with various Jane Austen tours.

One comment on train fees is that they can border on silly prices sometimes and looking into coach travel (National Express is the main national carrier) may be cheaper, although slower.

[JustSomeGuy]

A list of cool non touristy places i can reccomend:

Wookey hole (soutwest) - a giant cave used for centuries by allsorts, now makes cheese and has a genuine circus-school, complete with performances from the children

Jurrassic coast (south west to south coastline, roughly between dorset to hampshire) quaint seaside resorts and ancient cliffs/beaches/fossil guidey tour walks

Portsmouth dockyard (south) a bit touristy but loads of naval history, also nearby is the isle of wight

Battle and hastings (southeast) again a bit touristy but a decent smugglers' cave in the cliffs and apparently also something or other about 1066

Scarborough, whitby and york (north east) scarborough has a castle and church with civil war history, a bronte grave (forget which), loads of traditional seside tat and a hotel that slid down a cliff; whitby has james cook, bram stoker and a whale's jawbone and york has ye olde railways, city walls and minster and dungeons too.

Other decent stuff found all over, probably some nearby wherever you end up: roman ruins, canals, quiet villages with thatched cottages and tea parlours, unspoilt countryside of some description (forest, gorges, moors, dales, national parks etc), historical stuff from the stone age, roman times, dark ages, viking and norman invasions, middle ages, civil war, ww1 and 2, industrial revolution, age of sail and loads more. Museums about everything from teddy bears to deep sea life. Also sporting events of various description and standard, art galleries, music comedy and theatre (again various description and standards)

[Lady Moreta]

as for "rail pass" i'm pretty sure you won't be able to get a standardised rail pass outside of the larger cities as they are owned by separate companies so you'll be getting return journeys or singles.

According to the book I got from the travel agent, there is a BritRail pass which should give us access between cities. As far as I can tell, it doesn't include transport within cities, but it should get us from city to city at least.

Though I was looking at the campervan options yesterday and wondering if that wouldn't be a better idea. What are food/grocery prices like over there? I heard somewhere that it's really expensive, but surely it'd still be cheaper than eating out everywhere! I was thinking maybe we'd be better off being a bit more self-contained.

[Archonic Energy]

"nor any other services that are not run by National Rail."

Be Careful is all I'm saying the rails here are mostly in private hands I'd check the full list of available lines before planning this as option A

[Lady Moreta]

"nor any other services that are not run by National Rail."

Where are you getting that from? You're there, I assume you'd know, but the book I have doesn't mention anything about that. Having said that, I'm starting to think that you're probably right and rail isn't the best option.

[Archonic Energy]

googled "britrail" and looked at their T's & C's

at least they have a website. but I literally haven't never heard of it till it was mentioned in this thread...
and i travel by public transport

Edit: though this explains some things
"Not available to buy when you’re in the UK – you have to order before you travel"

http://www.visitbritainshop.com/world/travel-transport/rail-tickets/product/britrail-gb-flexi-pass.html

[veti]

Though I was looking at the campervan options yesterday and wondering if that wouldn't be a better idea. What are food/grocery prices like over there? I heard somewhere that it's really expensive, but surely it'd still be cheaper than eating out everywhere! I was thinking maybe we'd be better off being a bit more self-contained.

"Really expensive" is a relative thing. Compared with the US they're expensive, but compared with Australia? not so much.

This site (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+Kingd om&country2=Australia) should give you some idea.

Although in a camper van, in midwinter... I would seriously worry about the c-c-c-c-freezing your extremities off.

[factotum]

You can definitely get stuff cheaper in the UK than that comparison site suggests--I can get 18 eggs (not free range, admittedly) from my local Morrisons for £1.60, and a loaf of their own brand bread is 59p. Rice is about 40p for a kilo if you get their "saver" stuff, which is maybe a bit starchier than the "normal" stuff but tastes OK.

Agreed about the camper van, though. When I was at university I had to live in a caravan in my parent's garden when I was home for the holidays, and that was always "interesting" at Christmas. I can only consider myself fortunate I wasn't in it during January and February!

[paddyfool]

All the above-named museums are world class, and mostly either free or reasonably priced. Other sites, such as Westminster Abbey and the Tower of London, tend to be crazily overpriced. Look up the admission charges before you plan your day.

If you want to get into Westminster Abbey for free, turn up to one of their shorter services, e.g. evensong (they have an excellent choir). The Tower is pretty much always expensive to get into, but you can always plan a walk past it.

For what you're wanting to do, trains would be the most relaxing option, and all the rails they use are run by national rail, so don't worry about that. However, campervans would give you even more freedom and ability to access remote parts of the country, and the costs of renting one should largely be balanced out by not paying rent (parking can be another matter, especially in cities during the week). Also, because everything's really quite close together, you shouldn't be talking crazy lengths of time for drives (although trains would get you between cities faster). There's even an Australian campervan company who've set up shop here(called Spaceships), although their only rental locations are in London and Edinburgh and I've never yet used them myself.

Bring a warm sleeping bag if you choose the campervan option during winter, and waterproofs, warm layers, gloves, a warm hat and either a scarf, buff or snood would be a good idea for winter however you're travelling. The rain and snow is generally worse on the western side of the country (it builds up over the Atlantic ocean), but there's also a lot of good stuff there to see, and if you're lucky enough to be over when there's a high pressure it wouldn't even be an issue. Likewise, it's colder and darker in the North than the South of the country, but not enough by any means to rule out travel in Scotland (although hiking in the highlands should be approached with a lot of caution in winter). Luckily, however, the sea around keeps us warmer than the continent; winter conditions in the UK are generally not dissimilar to those in Tasmania or NZ, so you're not likely to freeze to death unless you really get daft about your planning and preparation.

[JustSomeGuy]

On a practical level, i would reccomend buying a truck atlas for getting around, for the more detailed road information but also they show parking areas and suitable service areas for overnighting, and which ones are free and which ones cost would probably be quite helpful (some charge as much as a cheap b&b per night, and a small van will be much less an inconvenience than a lorry so don't pay through the nose for an oversized parking space, basically)

[Rodin]

Scarborough, whitby and york (north east) scarborough has a castle and church with civil war history, a bronte grave (forget which), loads of traditional seside tat and a hotel that slid down a cliff; whitby has james cook, bram stoker and a whale's jawbone and york has ye olde railways, city walls and minster and dungeons too.


I can second Scarborough and Whitby as cool places to visit. We were based out of Guisborough and visited those places by bus. Helmsley also had a nice little castle from what I recall.

On a more recent trip I visited Hadrian's Wall. Excellent trip if you're into hiking at all, although it can be difficult to get to some areas without a car unless you're REALLY into hiking. There's a nice Roman museum out there as well.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Royal Armouries in Leeds is good but also very skippable. Its pretty much just weapons and weapons while other places have weapons and variety.

I'd hire a car and choose a medium sized area and keep to it. You don't want to be spending half your holiday on trains to places all over the country.

You can very easily spend 2-3 days in one city and then move to another one or somewhere more rural for another 2-3 days. That would give you more holiday time and less travelling.


There's a nice Roman museum out there as well.

There are several. I spent at least 3 days looking around Roman sites there and didn't see everything.

Vindolanda/Chesterholm is probably the best for archaeology but I don't remember that much about the museum.

[Lady Moreta]

Thanks to everyone who posted advice and suggestions, it was much appreciated. However, after a talk with my husband on priorities and things, and being told that a very dear friend is going to be getting married right December/January, we've decided not to go after all.

Thanks for your help though! :smallsmile:

[veti]

Enjoy the wedding. I do hope you'll be able to make it some other time, and next time - go in June or July.