Metamartial Feats

[Kymera]

Metamartial Feats

Path of War maneuver counterpart to metamagic and metapsionic feats.

Each feat requires the initiator to expend another readied maneuver in addition to the one they are actually using, in order to modify the used maneuver. The additional expended maneuver does not have any of its usual effects, but is considered expended, requiring it to be refreshed before it can be used again. Most metamartial feats also require an action first be spent charging the feat, before it can be used. Charges for each such feat are tracked separately. Each such feat may have a maximum number of simultaneous charges equal to your highest KIM during an encounter, and may never have more than a single charge at a time outside of combat. Unused charges last a maximum of 1 minute, and all unused charges dissipate at the start of an encounter (but see the Retain Charge feat, below). Charges also dissipate if the martial adept falls unconscious.

Using a metamartial feat is not any type of action of its own, but is a part of whatever action is used to initiate the maneuver being modified. An initiator who knows more than one metamartial feat may apply as many of them to a single maneuver as he is able to pay for, but unless otherwise specified, may only apply each feat once to a maneuver each time it is initiated.


If a class ability or other effect forbids you to initiate certain maneuvers despite them counting as readied (for example, a Mystic's readied maneuvers that have not yet been granted), then those maneuvers are likewise forbidden from being used to power a metamartial feat.


PEACH.

Extend Maneuver (Metamartial)
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, initiator level 1st
When initiating a maneuver with a finite duration of one round or longer, you may expend an additional maneuver and one charge from this feat to increase the initiated maneuver's duration by one round. If the additional expended maneuver is of higher level than the initiated maneuver, increase the initiated maneuver's duration by an additional round per level of the difference. You may spend either a swift or a move action to gain one charge for this feat.

Heighten Maneuver (Metamartial)
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, initiator level 5th
When initiating a maneuver, you may expend an additional maneuver of a higher level than the initiated maneuver. The initiated maneuver is treated as though it were a maneuver of the level of the additional expended maneuver.

Twin Maneuver (Metamartial)
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, initiator level 11th, key initiation ability score 15
When initiating a maneuver at least 2 levels lower than the highest level maneuver you know, you may expend a charge from this feat and an additional maneuver of at least third level, but no lower level than the initiated maneuver. The initiated maneuver takes effect twice simultaneously. Any choices made for the maneuver, such as targeting, are made once, and the same choice applies to both copies of the maneuver. Some maneuvers, including most boosts and counters, have redundant effects when used with this feat, but it does allow two chances to succeed at any required checks, and an enemy trying to remove a resulting effect with a duration would have to remove both copies in order to eliminate the effect. You may spend a move action to gain one charge for this feat.

Echoing Maneuver (needs better name, this one is based on fluff no longer applicable) (Metamartial)
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, Initiator level 7th, key initiation ability score 11
When initiating a maneuver, you may expend another maneuver of equal or higher level and of the same discipline. The initiated maneuver is not considered expended, and thus is still available to be initiated again, but you may not use this feat again with that maneuver until that maneuver has been expended and refreshed, or until a new encounter has started.
possible alternate name: Repeat Maneuver

Quicken Maneuver (Metamartial)
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, initiator level 9th, key initiation ability score 15
You may use a swift action to initiate a maneuver that usually requires a standard action or less, by expending one charge from this feat and two other maneuvers, one of which must be at least two levels higher and of the same discipline. You may spend a move action to gain one charge for this feat.

Improved Quicken Maneuver
Prerequisites: Quicken Maneuver, ability to initiate maneuvers, initiator level 15th, key initiation ability score 17
You may apply Quicken Maneuver to maneuvers which normally take up to a full-round action or one full round to initiate, and reduce by 1 the minimum maneuver level required for the additional maneuver expended to power Quicken Maneuver.

Opportunity Strike (Metamartial):
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, initiator level 11th, key initiation ability score 13
Once per round, when taking an attack of opportunity, you may initiate a strike of at least one level lower than the highest level maneuver you know, in place of the melee attack granted by the attack of opportunity action, by expending one charge from this feat and another maneuver of equal or higher level to the initiated strike. The initiated strike must be one which normally has an initiation action of one standard action or less. This strike must still target the creature who provoked the attack of opportunity, must still use a melee attack, and any attack made as part of the strike is subject to any modifiers applicable to attacks of opportunity (such as the rogue's Opportunist ability or an opponent's Mobility feat). You may spend a swift or a move action to gain up to two charges for this feat.

Critical Strike (Metamartial)
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, initiator level 9th, key initiation ability score 11
When initiating a strike, you may expend one charge from this feat and two additional maneuvers to have any one attack roll (chosen before the attack is rolled) made as a part of that strike count any hit as a critical threat. If you expend four additional maneuvers instead of two, you may apply the effect to all attack rolls made as part of that strike, instead of just to one. You may spend a swift or a move action to gain one charge for this feat.

Reach Strike (Metamartial)
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, initiator level 3rd, knowledge of 3 supernatural strikes that can be used with ranged attacks
When initiating a strike that normally requires a melee attack, you may expend an additional maneuver at least one level higher than the initiated strike. The strike becomes supernatural if it wasn't already, and may be used with ranged attacks within the first range increment.

Retain Metamartial Charge
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, any 2 Metamartial feats
Charges for your metamartial feats no longer last for a maximum of 1 minute, and no longer dissipate at the start of an encounter; they now last until used or until you fall unconscious (including sleeping for the night). You can still never have more than 1 charge outside of an encounter, so any charges in excess of that limit still dissipate at the end of an encounter.

Improved Metamartial Charging
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate maneuvers, any 1 Metamartial feat
Whenever you would gain a charge to a Metapsionic feat during an encounter, you may gain one additional charge. This feat can provide at most a single charge per action you spend, even if another ability would allow you to gain multiple charges at once or to charge multiple feats with a single action, and cannot be used if you did not spend an action to gain the triggering charge.

[Kymera]

Changelog:

2015-04-13: Initial Post

2015-04-16:
* Added Critical Strike feat to list. Thanks, Thealtruistorc
* Added placeholders for prerequisites to hopefully make it more clear that these aren't intended not to have any prerequisites, I just haven't figured out yet what they should be.

2015-04-18
* Gave each feat a prerequisite. I feel pretty good about the types of prerequisites here, but the magnitudes are rather more difficult to work out, so the current numbers are more or less wild guesses. Can someone please help figure out what those should be?

2015-11-29
* Limited Opportunity Strike to 1/rd. While working on a Zone-of-Nope specialized Warder build, I realized that this feat, without this limitation, was far too strong on such a build.
* Added Reach Strike feat
* Cleaned up some wording

2015-12-17
* Removed reference to a beta test element that didn't make it into the final product

2016-02-24
* Major overhaul, in response to feedback from one of PoW's original devs: added the charges mechanic

2016-02-27
* Fixed several formatting issues and a typo
* changed"Retain Charge" to "Retain Metamartial Charge" to improve clarity and reduce the chance of future naming conflicts
* clarified interactions with characters with multiple maneuver progressions

[Bhu]

I looked at this and saw meta marital feats. This is what i get for peeking at homebrew after 3 am..

[DurionArcanis]

I looked at this and saw meta marital feats. This is what i get for peeking at homebrew after 3 am..

Dear lord... Meta-Marital feats need to be a thing now. Feats for polygamists. The more wives you have the more powerful you become.

[Thealtruistorc]

On some builds, I could definitely see this working. However, I am somewhat hesitant about how powerful the quickens could become. The only class that can pull off more than one standard-action maneuver in a round is the stalker, so I doubt DSP intended for rapid-fire strikes becoming commonplace.

Maybe you could add one that functions as a guarunteed critical threat with the expenditure of 3 or 4 additional maneuvers. I could see plenty of use for that without breaking the game too much.

Also, don't specify maneuver level sacrifices (some level 1s are still viable at high levels). Just specify a prerequisite initiator level if you want to limit early entry.

[Kymera]

On some builds, I could definitely see this working. However, I am somewhat hesitant about how powerful the quickens could become. The only class that can pull off more than one standard-action maneuver in a round is the stalker, so I doubt DSP intended for rapid-fire strikes becoming commonplace.

Awakened Blade can also do a second Standard action maneuver per round, and as an immediate action, to boot. Also, this is mostly expected to be used less than every round. A vancian or a psionicist Quickening their stuff can usually throw out 2 powers every round til they're out of juice, but they also have very little other use for swifts, and their whole day's worth of slots "refreshed" at once.
An initiator using Quicken Maneuver to use 2 strikes per round is burning through 4 readied maneuvers per round, and recovering zero. The mystic is the only one who can recover anything without spending an action, and at no point do they do so sustaining 4/round; most of the time, they can't even sustain 2/round (strike and boost/counter).
What frequency should it be usable at? If the current rate is too rapid-fire, that's adjustable easily enough by changing the number of additional expended maneuvers or making other adjustments, but I'd rather not throw out the concept entirely.


Maybe you could add one that functions as a guarunteed critical threat with the expenditure of 3 or 4 additional maneuvers. I could see plenty of use for that without breaking the game too much.

I like that idea. Will add it in a bit. Good to have some ideas for ones not directly cribbed from existing metafoo feats.


Also, don't specify maneuver level sacrifices (some level 1s are still viable at high levels). Just specify a prerequisite initiator level if you want to limit early entry.

The restrictions on sacrifice maneuver levels isn't intended to be a general level gate for the feat; that's the job of the still-to-be-determined prerequisites. I'm well aware that some of the level 1 maneuvers stay relevant at high levels (indeed, the whole point of my heighten maneuver feat is to further enable such).
Rather, such limits are intended to be another balancing factor. This does discourage such creative high level use of low level abilities, and I would be interested in considering alternatives that don't do so, but this also has the advantage of making these harder to apply on the user's highest level maneuvers than on the lower ones, because at most levels, an initiator will be unable to know as many maneuvers of their highest level as they can ready, so some will have to be of lower level. This avoids evasion of this existing limitation by letting people just spend those lower level ones on more hits from the higher level maneuvers.
These limits do also act as a specific level gate for particular maneuvers in some cases: just as a Wizard can't Quicken his highest level spells, and to Quicken anything, must take a hit to how often he can use those higher level spells, the requirement for one of Quicken Maneuver's sacrifices to be 2 levels higher both ensures that an initiator can't Quicken his highest-level maneuvers, and causes his decision to Quicken a lower-level maneuver to cut into his usage of the higher ones. This also achieves such limitation in a way that meshes well with the maneuver-level-access mechanics the core-class archetypes use, which would be very difficult and clunky to establish using initiator level limits.

[MojoBojangles]

These look really promising. Keep up the good work. Would definitely look into using these personally.

[Thealtruistorc]

Here's how I would balance quickened maneuvers:

Specify BAB +6 as a prerequisite. This is the point where numerous attacks per round are okay on a class.

Have the initiator take a -2 penalty on attack rolls when using a quickened maneuver. I can easily see stalker builds nova-ing these every turn while regaining maneuvers.

Finally, I would nix the improved version. Time Stands Still was considered to be one of the most powerful maneuvers in Tome of Battle, for good reason. The ability to use it regularly and from lower levels is outright terrifying.

[Kymera]

Here's how I would balance quickened maneuvers:

Specify BAB +6 as a prerequisite. This is the point where numerous attacks per round are okay on a class.

How do you feel about Initiator level 7+ instead of BAB +6 for the prerequisite to Quicken Maneuver? (7 instead of 6 to account for BAB being slightly harder to accelerate than initiator level) I've been planning to give it an initiator level prerequisite anyway, just couldn't determine how high to make it. This accomplishes a similar objective of gating it to a level where multiple attacks per round are commonplace (they're "okay" even sooner; even the monk gets multiple attacks as a class ability from level one, and they're not exactly seen as overpowered for it), without forcing the character to care as much about BAB. Currently, there are a few strikes that use an iterative attack sequence, but most martials aren't using iteratives at all, which means that while they care about a high total attack bonus, it doesn't really matter much how much of that bonus came from BAB. This is good for PoW's multiclass-friendliness and for keeping the widest possible range of character options open, and is a good thing.



Have the initiator take a -2 penalty on attack rolls when using a quickened maneuver. I can easily see stalker builds nova-ing these every turn while regaining maneuvers.

I can't easily see such a thing. I can't see such a thing at all. How, exactly, is this stalker recovering any maneuvers while doing this? Do you mean using his regular action to recover maneuvers while still taking a strike with Quicken Maneuver? If so, congratulations to him, he's given up any counter/boost/etc he might have done this round, and his move-equivalent action, on top of the standard a strike would have taken normally, just to get in one strike per round that can't be his strongest one. That's hardly nova'ing. It does allow a stalker with high enough Wisdom to both strike and recover in the same round, but all that does is bring him about halfway to being in line with what Warlord or Harbinger can do out of the box, and it takes an 18 Wisdom just to end the round with 1 more maneuver readied than going in (+4 bonus, enough to recover 4 maneuvers, 3 of which he spent on making that Quickened strike).

If you mean that he is using Quickened Maneuver every round to get a second strike, in addition to the one he can get by spending his standard action normally, then no, he is not regaining maneuvers at the same time. Mystic has been discussed above, and Lightning Recovery is one maneuver, one time, per day. Currently, these two are the only methods in the game for any character to recover maneuvers without spending either a swift action or a standard (honorable mention goes to Harbinger's recovery on Claimed death, which allows the action to be spent several rounds in advance, but even then, no action spent, no maneuver recovered). Spending either a swift or a standard means that, Quicken Maneuver or no, you're only getting 1 strike that round.



Finally, I would nix the improved version. Time Stands Still was considered to be one of the most powerful maneuvers in Tome of Battle, for good reason. The ability to use it regularly and from lower levels is outright terrifying.

I don't have access to the old Book of 9 Swords, so I'm basing this just on the new Path of War material. Can you please explain what, exactly, Time Stands Still does, and how, exactly, it relates to Improved Quicken Strikes? Also, which part of Improved Quicken Strikes is so terrifying, the ability to apply Quicken Maneuver to the rare few PoW maneuvers that normally require a full round, or the ability to apply them to maneuvers one level higher than could be done with just the base Quicken Maneuver?

Edit: Found someone I know with Book of 9 Swords, and found out what Time Stands Still does: two back-to-back full attacks as a standard action. I still don't see how Improved Quicken Maneuver allows this at low levels. Did you perhaps misread it as applying Quicken Maneuver to any full-round action? The action in question does still have to be a maneuver. The only maneuvers I've found so far that let you make a full attack are all at least 8th level, so while Improved Quicken Strike does just barely let you Quicken them, it doesn't do so until you have 9th level maneuvers to sacrifice, which isn't exactly "from lower levels", and as for the other part of IQS (full-round maneuvers) enabling it, most of those strikes are standards already. The only one I've found so far that's full round is level 9, and thus can't be Quickened at all, since even with IQS, it would require at least one of the sacrifices to be a level 10 or high maneuver, which don't exist.

[Thealtruistorc]

Here's what I find kind of messed up about improved quicken maneuver, and how I can find the stalker exploiting the heck out of it:

Stalker with improved quicken maneuver will simply regain his maneuvers every turn by meditating. He will not only be able to move every turn with a constant bonus to AC and hit with deadly strike every attack, but can effectively make full attacks as a swift action (dragon assault is the lowest-level maneuver that enables a full attack with bonus damage, and that's 4th level). Throw on the phantom reach stalker art and you have effectively split the action economy in half as you are dealing absurd amounts of damage while continuing to move away from opponents. It is effectively a crazier version of 3.0 haste, and I think any ability near that powerful would be dangerous to implement.

[Kymera]

Here's what I find kind of messed up about improved quicken maneuver, and how I can find the stalker exploiting the heck out of it:

Stalker with improved quicken maneuver will simply regain his maneuvers every turn by meditating. He will not only be able to move every turn with a constant bonus to AC and hit with deadly strike every attack, but can effectively make full attacks as a swift action (dragon assault is the lowest-level maneuver that enables a full attack with bonus damage, and that's 4th level). Throw on the phantom reach stalker art and you have effectively split the action economy in half as you are dealing absurd amounts of damage while continuing to move away from opponents. It is effectively a crazier version of 3.0 haste, and I think any ability near that powerful would be dangerous to implement.

Uh, no. What you are describing is not a crazier version of 3.0 haste. 3.0 haste used to get full attacks plus movement wasn't really all that bad to begin with, that's pretty much what it was designed for. 3.0 haste became a problem because it was used to cast two (three with quicken) 3.0 tier-1 spells in one round.

What you're getting is just a full attack every round with +4 to AC and Deadly Strikes damage. You can get +4 AC easily enough from a boost, and it's not that earth-shattering anyway by the time you hit level 9 (when this could have been used sans prerequisites that I hadn't set yet), and you can already get Deadly Strikes on pretty much any hit by spending ki, so all you really gain is a minor numerical defensive bonus, and conserving ki, in exchange for your swift, which is kinda a precious thing to an initiator.

And no, you are not combining this with Phantom Reach (not that that would make it overpowered if you could), because that eats a swift action, and you're all out of those after using the only one you had to Quicken a maneuver. You can't even trade out some other action type for an extra swift via Ready shenanigans or the like, because you've used a full-round for maneuver recovery. You have nothing but free actions left, and Phantom Reach is not a free action.

[AGrinningCat]

Twin maneuver is really close to the stalker's capstone Dual Strike ability
Opportunity Maneuver is really close to the Harbinger's 18th level ability.
Initiator Key scores probably don't need to be there -- In most games, this will be the highest or second highest stat and would easily meet these pre-reqs.

[Kymera]

Twin maneuver is really close to the stalker's capstone Dual Strike ability

Somewhat, but not really all that close; Quicken Maneuver is actually closer, as it and Dual Strike both provide ways to potentially use two different strikes in the same round, while Twin Strike is about using the same strike twice back to back. Also, Dual Strike isn't a capstone, stalker gets it at level 10.

Is the similarity to Dual Strike a problem for either of these feats, though? All three abilities do still allow a character to do something that they could not do with either of the others: Dual Strike is the only one of the three that can be used with the character's highest-level strikes, and is 1/day instead of expending additional maneuvers; Quicken lets the second thing you do be any use of a standard or full-round action, not just another strike; and Twin Strike lets you use the same strike twice in the same round, and is the only one of the three compatible with boosts. At the moment, I don't really see this being similar enough to cause trouble, but I will make note to watch for this when I get a chance to test these out in game, and would appreciate if anyone else who gets a chance to do likewise would report on their findings.


Opportunity Maneuver is really close to the Harbinger's 18th level ability.

This one really is very close, and is a bit more worrisome. The actual benefit is essentially the same, and available at a much earlier level. It is also more expensive to use than the Harbinger ability, and again, cannot be used with the character's highest-level maneuvers, both of which should be balancing out the earlier entry. Looking back at it, though, I'm thinking maybe its cost to use it needs an adjustment. What specific changes would you recommend?

Being similar to a class ability also raises the concern of stepping on toes, but I don't think that's really very applicable here: it's a nice thing that Harbingers get to do at high levels, but it's really not that central a part of being a Harbinger, nor does the ability itself tie into Harbinger's fluff closely enough for its existence elsewhere to dilute Harbinger in that sense. Also, I'd frankly like to see an AoO strike ability that I'll get the chance to actually see, and I'm not alone in nearly always playing well below level 18. Poll after poll have shown that only a small sliver of the gamer population has ever seen such high levels in a real game, let alone reaches them with any frequency.


Initiator Key scores probably don't need to be there -- In most games, this will be the highest or second highest stat and would easily meet these pre-reqs.

It's good to get a second opinion on this, and I'd be interested to see what others' experiences have been in the matter. My own experience and analysis have been that this is usually true of full-9 martials, since they usually have other class abilities that also key off of the same ability score as their KIM, and especially so for anyone who makes heavy use of maneuvers that call for saving throws. However, KIM for martial initiating is a lot less important than KAMs for vancians or psionicists, because, as far as I can tell, saving throw DCs are the only thing affected by them that is baked into the system. They otherwise only matter for maneuvers that explicitly reference them (and there are a few of these, but not many), and for whatever other abilities happen to use the same ability (multiple-maneuver recovery mechanics being the big one).

For this reason, most partial-initiator classes, multiclass characters with some initiating thrown in, and other characters who have some initiating but aren't as focused on it, have much less reason to invest heavily in their KIM, much more reason not to (in the form of MADness), and will usually not have much investment here unless it happens to line up with the needs of whatever else their focus is split to. I myself have a zealot currently in planning who is not expected to ever have a Cha above 11.

The thinking behind putting those in the prerequisites was to favor the use of these feats by the former group rather than by the latter, but still avoid banning the latter group outright, so that they can still get them if they want them badly enough to make the investment.

However, as mentioned before, I am not at all confident about the prerequisites as I have them, and am open to being convinced to change them. I would be particularly interested in hearing whether you are still in favor of dropping those, in light of this explanation, and to hear your analysis of my thought process in assigning them.


Thanks.

[Kymera]

Added a new feat, Reach Strike.

[Kymera]

Major overhaul, added charges mechanic.