Multiple Rerolls

[torrasque666]

What different methods are there to get multiple rerolls of the dice, whether for yourself or your allies?

Like rerolls on saves, attacks, initiatives, etc?

[(Un)Inspired]

Try rolling when no one at the table is watching. If nobody witnesses you make a bad roll, pick up the dice and roll again.

The technique work better for your own rolls. It's harder to use it on you allies rolls.

[torrasque666]

Try rolling when no one at the table is watching. If nobody witnesses you make a bad roll, pick up the dice and roll again.

The technique work better for your own rolls. It's harder to use it on you allies rolls.

Thank you for that FANTASTIC advice. But I play online, and all rolls are posted, so your method is of no help.

[danzibr]

Try rolling when no one at the table is watching. If nobody witnesses you make a bad roll, pick up the dice and roll again.

The technique work better for your own rolls. It's harder to use it on you allies rolls.
This is the best way to do it. No feat or gear investment.

There are also luck feats and some items which let you reroll, or roll twice and take the better.

EDIT: Since you play online, you can make your post, copy everything, if it's a bad roll then delete your post and try again.

[atemu1234]

What different methods are there to get multiple rerolls of the dice, whether for yourself or your allies?

Like rerolls on saves, attacks, initiatives, etc?

Luck rerolls from Complete Scoundrel.

[torrasque666]

Luck rerolls from Complete Scoundrel.

Finally, some good advice. Thank you.

EDIT: Is there any class other than Fortune's Friend that gives bonus Luck feats?

[(Un)Inspired]

Thank you for that FANTASTIC advice. But I play online, and all rolls are posted, so your method is of no help.

If there are limitations on what resources are available to you it would probably behoove you to list them. How could I have divined that you only play online?

[Siosilvar]

If there are limitations on what resources are available to you it would probably behoove you to list them. How could I have divined that you only play online?

Cheating on your rolls is generally not the first solution people want, online or no.

[(Un)Inspired]

Cheating on your rolls is generally not the first solution people want, online or no.

Generally? I didn't read any such restriction in his post. As far as I can reason, the simplest way to reroll is to simply reroll.

[nedz]

There's a whole series of Luck feats in Complete Scoundrel, take a look at them. Most of them give you a Luck re-roll as well as some other trick.

Advantageous Avoidance
Better Lucky than Good
Dumb Luck
Fortuitous Strike
Good Karma
Healer's Luck
Lucky Break
Lucky Catch
Lucky Fingers
Lucky Start
Magical Fortune
Make Your Own Luck
Miser's Fortune
Psychic Luck
Sly Fortune
Survivor's Luck
Tempting Fate
Third Time's the Charm
Unbelievable Luck
Victor's Luck

[Afgncaap5]

Finally, some good advice. Thank you.

EDIT: Is there any class other than Fortune's Friend that gives bonus Luck feats?

The Luck domain of a Cleric gives you a free reroll that, while not a "Luck Reroll" technically, amounts to the same thing (and is, in fact, required for the Third Time's The Charm luck feat.)

Also, the Luckstealer class (Races of the Wild?) grants you Luck Rerolls, I think. I believe it's something like... every three "luck points" you have in your pool can be used as the equivalent of a reroll? Something like that.

I also forget exactly how the Fatespinner prestige class works. I don't think it gives any rerolls ever, but it *does* give a kind of luck mechanic called Spin. I think it's in Complete Arcane?

-Edit-

Most of which I only know because a week or two ago I was idly musing on how to make the luckiest character ever.

[Douglas]

Generally? I didn't read any such restriction in his post. As far as I can reason, the simplest way to reroll is to simply reroll.
Such a restriction is generally assumed as a base for all requests, unless no non-cheating way exists. Cheating is near-universally frowned upon, and should only be assumed a valid answer when there is strong reason to expect it specifically. There are a great many ways to reroll dice without cheating in D&D, so of course the OP was asking for those.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The greater versions of the save improving armor crystals (MIC) generally grant a reroll.
The MIC also has the Amulet of Fortune Prevailing and Mantle of Second Chances
PGtF has the Doomwarding weapon enhancement
The Luck Blade (DMG) grants a reroll 1/day
Ghostwalk has Phaant's Luckstone which is a single-use reroll on anything for 1000gp
DMG2 has the Slippery Mind armor enhancement

[(Un)Inspired]

Such a restriction is generally assumed as a base for all requests, unless no non-cheating way exists. Cheating is near-universally frowned upon, and should only be assumed a valid answer when there is strong reason to expect it specifically. There are a great many ways to reroll dice without cheating in D&D, so of course the OP was asking for those.

Again, "generally"? How could one know that this wasn't an instance in which it would be acceptable? Even if there had never before been an acceptable time for cheating to be used, how can I be certain that it wouldn't be acceptable this time?

How can one determine when something should or should not be assumed to be valid?

[atemu1234]

Again, "generally"? How could one know that this wasn't an instance in which it would be acceptable? Even if there had never before been an acceptable time for cheating to be used, how can I be certain that it wouldn't be acceptable this time?

How can one determine when something should or should not be assumed to be valid?

Not the time and not the place to argue. If you want to ask when it's alright to cheat, start your own thread. In the mean time, we will answer this thread's reasonable question with reasonable and rules-legal answers.

[Douglas]

Again, "generally"? How could one know that this wasn't an instance in which it would be acceptable? Even if there had never before been an acceptable time for cheating to be used, how can I be certain that it wouldn't be acceptable this time?

How can one determine when something should or should not be assumed to be valid?
How can you be absolutely 100% certain? You can't, without an explicit statement. How can you be 99% confident? Easy, it's the standard default in the society you happen to be part of (at least on these forums, I don't know specifically about wherever you live in real life).

Simply put, assume cheating is unacceptable until and unless you have actual reason, not just speculation and possibility, to believe otherwise. Sure, you might miss the 1 in 300* or so instances where this principle is wrong, but that's a lot better than the hostility you'd get by ignoring it from the other 299 where it's right.

*Estimate based on informal personal experience, not actual statistical study.

[danzibr]

How can you be absolutely 100% certain? You can't, without an explicit statement. How can you be 99% confident? Easy, it's the standard default in the society you happen to be part of (at least on these forums, I don't know specifically about wherever you live in real life).

Simply put, assume cheating is unacceptable until and unless you have actual reason, not just speculation and possibility, to believe otherwise.
I swear I'm not trying to be snarky here, but in Statistics, the default assumption (that is, if it's nothing is specified) is a 95% level of confidence. This came about on a math test (I teach high school, go to math relays) my students were asking me about a margin of error but it didn't say the confidence level.

Okay, back on topic. As much as I love snarkiness, it would be like answering the question ``How do I increase my stats?'' with ``Use an eraser and then pencil in higher stats.''

[Crake]

The pride domain lets you re-roll natural 1s on saves, reducing the chance of auto failure from 1/20 to 1/400. Unlike luck re-rolls, this ability isn't limited in the number of uses per day, it always happens on the roll of a 1 on a save (though you need to keep the second roll, so can't just keep re-rolling 1s forever on the same roll).

[(Un)Inspired]

How can you be absolutely 100% certain? You can't, without an explicit statement. How can you be 99% confident? Easy, it's the standard default in the society you happen to be part of (at least on these forums, I don't know specifically about wherever you live in real life).

Simply put, assume cheating is unacceptable until and unless you have actual reason, not just speculation and possibility, to believe otherwise. Sure, you might miss the 1 in 300* or so instances where this principle is wrong, but that's a lot better than the hostility you'd get by ignoring it from the other 299 where it's right.

*Estimate based on informal personal experience, not actual statistical study.

There was nothing in the initial post to indicate that the game was going to take place on these forums. There was no mention of the game taking place within this forum-culture.

If the game IS taking place on these forums where cheating is an unacceptable activity we still can't automatically assume that the sort of behavior I suggested is a form of cheating. It may seem intuitive that altering die rolls is a form of cheating but there was (relatively) recently a tremendously long thread dedicated to what constitutes cheating within D&D. I don't believe a definitive consensus was even reached so it would seem that while cheating may be unacceptable on these forums we don't know what cheating actually is.

[KingSmitty]

personally i can't see how anyone could continue to advocate cheating as often as you have, but to continue to debate the effectiveness of cheating when the OP has already dismissed your advice as cheating (rightly so!) is nonsensical. it would be wise to stop there.

Torra, there's a skill trick somewhere i believe that allows specific rolls to be re-rolled but i am AFB currently, also I know of a maneuver called Shadow Blade Technique that lets you roll two dice and take the better (or worse for an extra die of energy damage). Also Indomitable soul lets you roll 2d20 for will saves.

Perhaps abilities like that (roll two take the better) would be useful? I'm not aware of more than what I referenced, but I'd say that would be as close to rerolling as possible if you cannot make the ones listed so far work.

Does anyone know of any others like that?

[Douglas]

There was nothing in the initial post to indicate that the game was going to take place on these forums. There was no mention of the game taking place within this forum-culture.

If the game IS taking place on these forums where cheating is an unacceptable activity we still can't automatically assume that the sort of behavior I suggested is a form of cheating. It may seem intuitive that altering die rolls is a form of cheating but there was (relatively) recently a tremendously long thread dedicated to what constitutes cheating within D&D. I don't believe a definitive consensus was even reached so it would seem that while cheating may be unacceptable on these forums we don't know what cheating actually is.
Whether the game in question takes place here is irrelevant. The fact that the discussion itself is here is quite sufficient to bring this forum's standards into play; further, this particular standard is far FAR broader than just this forum, extending to the vast majority of the entire world. There is a reason that "X person cheated" is almost always considered a scandal if it gets in the news.

As for what constitutes cheating, I'm sure there are many things where there is substantial debate over whether they qualify. I would be extremely surprised if the blatant "reroll when the other players aren't looking" you suggested is one of them.

[AmberVael]

There are a couple of Seer powers that allow for rerolls: Second Chance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/secondChance.htm) and Fate of One. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fateofOne.htm) There is also a superior version of Fate of One that can be acquired from the Fate mantle in complete psionic that gives you an additional reroll.

The spell Alter Fortune (from the PHB II) grants a reroll to one creature within close range.

[torrasque666]

I'm basically trying to cram as many ways to allow me to make rerolls (preferably taking the better result, but I know there are some that specify taking the second result no matter what) as possible into a coherent build.

[Douglas]

It's rather specific and high level, being a 9th level domain-only spell, but the spell Choose Destiny from Races of Destiny lets you roll almost every d20 twice and take the better result. Typically lasts for one encounter normally, but can in theory be Persisted with your choice of metamagic cost replacement for all day use.

[DrMartin]

in Hyperconscious there is a Psion/Wilder power called Probability Mantle that gives one reroll per round and 20% miss chance. Not done by the Wizards that live close to the sea though (the author of this book is the same author of the Expanded Psionic Handbook though, so that ought to give a +2 circumstance bonus to convincing your DM to allow it).

[(Un)Inspired]

personally i can't see how anyone could continue to advocate cheating as often as you have, but to continue to debate the effectiveness of cheating when the OP has already dismissed your advice as cheating (rightly so!) is nonsensical. it would be wise to stop there.

I'm not advocating cheating. I'm advocating that certain behavior, that may or may not be cheating, fits within the criteria for what the OP was requesting. He may not have been interested in the advice I offered but I believe that is due to a failing with the level specificity he used in his post. I'm not sure where this place is that you believe it is wise to stop at or why it would be wise to stop there.


Whether the game in question takes place here is irrelevant. The fact that the discussion itself is here is quite sufficient to bring this forum's standards into play; further, this particular standard is far FAR broader than just this forum, extending to the vast majority of the entire world. There is a reason that "X person cheated" is almost always considered a scandal if it gets in the news.


I believe that the location of the game he is seeking advice for is not irrelevant in this discussion. Different gaming tables have different standards. While certain behavior might be bad form here it might be held as an example of viable play elsewhere. While the discussion is happening here the standards of the gaming table the OP is at might differ.

The fact that news of people cheating is broadcast through our media means that there are people out there cheating. There seem to be people for whom cheating is a viable option. How could I know that the OO was not one of them?


As for what constitutes cheating, I'm sure there are many things where there is substantial debate over whether they qualify. I would be extremely surprised if the blatant "reroll when the other players aren't looking" you suggested is one of them.

Perhaps you are right. I don't know. I would venture that we each hold this word "cheating" as part of our Wittgensteinian privatsprache. I cannot tell how much of the definition we share.

[Douglas]

I'm not advocating cheating. I'm advocating that certain behavior, that may or may not be cheating, fits within the criteria for what the OP was requesting. He may not have been interested in the advice I offered but I believe that is due to a failing with the level specificity he used in his post. I'm not sure where this place is that you believe it is wise to stop at or why it would be wise to stop there.
You are advocating something that every single person who has responded to you (ok, except the one guy who suggested another method of cheating) has labeled unambiguously and with complete certainty as cheating. There's a point beyond which maintaining the assertion of "may or may not be cheating" is absurd. You have passed it. Definitions are created by consensus for the purpose of communication, the fact that your personal definition is manifestly so strongly out of line with the consensus should tell you that you need to accept that fact and change your definition to match, as the alternative is an ongoing failure to communicate correctly.

[Afgncaap5]

The topic at hand has reminded me of another way to get a reroll in D&D.

The Cheat spell (Spell Compendium pg. 46) can, when a DM rolls a die to determine the outcome of a game of chance (Three Dragon Ante, Poker, a dice game, roulette, etc.), allow a person under its effect to demand that the DM reroll.

And, curiously enough, this might also cause some in-world dice to be rerolled, though in a weird kind of pre-emptive, spur of the moment sense. I'll avoid the metaphysical question of getting a different result than you would have on a die counts as a *re*roll or not.

This may not count as per the OP, though, as it's the DM rerolling something, not the player. (Then again, there aren't many ways to influence a DM mechanically in D&D, so it's at least worth mentioning as an alternate or special category or something.)

-Edit: Maybe it's because it's so late where I am, but my brain just broke trying to figure out the implications of casting an Empowered or Maximized cheat spell. ("It's weird, all your cards have card-backs on them on both the front and the back. Except for another card that's telling you the rules to a game you've never heard of called Double Fannucci. That one makes your head hurt.")

[Riculf]

You are advocating something that every single person who has responded to you (ok, except the one guy who suggested another method of cheating) has labeled unambiguously and with complete certainty as cheating. There's a point beyond which maintaining the assertion of "may or may not be cheating" is absurd. You have passed it. Definitions are created by consensus for the purpose of communication, the fact that your personal definition is manifestly so strongly out of line with the consensus should tell you that you need to accept that fact and change your definition to match, as the alternative is an ongoing failure to communicate correctly.

...and it is through this process that the term "literally" no longer means "literally". The original question was asked and then answered. The first answer was not "appreciated", however other answers came along that answered the question as interpreted rather than the question as asked. And then the thread seemed to devolve into berating someone about how they interpreted the question. Quite entertaining, really. :smallbiggrin: