Group buffing help

[Sewercop]

Looking for level 1-2(maybe 3) spells that buff other players instead of the caster. For some reason the other players dislike the idea of a spellcaster buffing
himself and doing average in combat. So to keep the peace in the group i`m looking for buff spells that is non-personal to help out the player.
If spells are personal but can be made non-personal with two feats he is willing to consider it.

No interest in 4th level or higher spells at all. Both arcane and divine spells are ok. But only spells that buff other characters or the group as whole.

All arcane and divine spells are fair game. Paladin,ranger,trapsmith,wizard,bard etc
F.ex Lvl 1 haste from trapsmith

[sideswipe]

not exactly what you are looking for but the war weaver prestige class from heroes of battle is a 4/5 casting progression prestige class for an arcane caster that allows you to buff your entire party with a single spell and single action, even allowing you to cast spells as move actions in combat (if you have prepared them prior)
this potentially allows you (without extra action shenanigans) to cast 3 spells on the first turn of combat. and those 3 spells can effect your whole party, not just the normal target.

[Petrocorus]

Looking for level 1-2(maybe 3) spells that buff other players instead of the caster. For some reason the other players dislike the idea of a spellcaster buffing himself and doing average in combat. So to keep the peace in the group i`m looking for buff spells that is non-personal to help out the player.

Because he's outshining them.
Making a buffer caster is indeed a good way to make the caster party-friendly.
As Treantmonk puts it: "This will make the BSF and the GC win the combat with little damage to themselves - and they will feel like "they" won. That's the point - you're God after all, let the mortals have their victory."



No interest in 4th level or higher spells at all. Both arcane and divine spells are ok. But only spells that buff other characters or the group as whole.

All arcane and divine spells are fair game. Paladin,ranger,trapsmith,wizard,bard etc
F.ex Lvl 1 haste from trapsmith
How can arcane and divine be both OK?

Haste is the first one every one would think about. If he can have it at 1st level, that's the best buff possible.
Enlarge person can be cool on the main warrior.
The Animal's Ability line is obvious.
Spider Climb can be useful on a rogue.
In SpC, you have Heroics, to help the warrior combine feats.
I also always like Heroism, when i don't ban Enchantment.

[WhamBamSam]

How can arcane and divine be both OK?If I had to guess, he's a Chameleon rather than an actual full-caster.

[Sewercop]

not exactly what you are looking for but the war weaver prestige class from heroes of battle is a 4/5 casting progression prestige class for an arcane caster that allows you to buff your entire party with a single spell and single action, even allowing you to cast spells as move actions in combat (if you have prepared them prior)
this potentially allows you (without extra action shenanigans) to cast 3 spells on the first turn of combat. and those 3 spells can effect your whole party, not just the normal target.

It`s a really neat class indeed, looked into it before. It fits well for a buffer and this character would benefit greatly from it with bloodlines being in play.
But the campaign would probably end before it became an option for the player. But yes its a valid option later on. Thanks thou


Because he's outshining them.
Making a buffer caster is indeed a good way to make the caster party-friendly.
As Treantmonk puts it: "This will make the BSF and the GC win the combat with little damage to themselves - and they will feel like "they" won. That's the point - you're God after all, let the mortals have their victory."


Yes he is outshining them to a degree. The most overlooked part of the Tier system JaronK put forward are that it assumes equal understanding of the game.
The party is very caster friendly indeed and it might surprise a few that the groups biggest issue are a what many would assume is the least powerful character in theory. The group consists of a nice blend of characters.

-Druid summoner with a nasty animal companion. You would be surprised to know its possible for a player to feel sucky about that for a player.
-Dragonfire inspiration bard, who think its OP when someone else have an attack that deals 3d6 damage.
-Cloisterd Cleric,crusdader , ruby knight vindicator - This guy has no problem with the buffer at all.Divine metamagic persist(and yeah,, Feral,lesser planetouched as well)

Lets just put it this way, the druid forgets his spells, forgets to buy armor, forgets to use wildshape, forgets to use his animal companion. Complains the gm dont let him buy equipment.
The Bard forgets to inspire,forgets to dragon inspire, takes exotic weapon prof repeating crossbow, forgets to buy gear, only active when its combat.



How can arcane and divine be both OK?


A chameleon build.



Haste is the first one every one would think about. If he can have it at 1st level, that's the best buff possible.
Enlarge person can be cool on the main warrior.
The Animal's Ability line is obvious.
Spider Climb can be useful on a rogue.
In SpC, you have Heroics, to help the warrior combine feats.
I also always like Heroism, when i don't ban Enchantment.

-Haste is perfect, except when you use it on yourself and share it with your familiar. In this group it is all about perceptions of power. He is not the most powerful, but understands the game better. Hence haste on the druids animal companion instead.. wich is wasted since he forgets to direct it.
-Enlarge is a debuff in our group. No one got the strength to carry all that gear.
-Animals ability line ive never even heard of google seems to give me nada? did i forget to say no pathfinder.. darn
-Spider climb is not needed when you fly
-Heroics is awesome for the chameleon, not the others. Way to visible to not make people annoyed if he can deal damage aswell
-Heroism is nice, but dont stack with the bard. (if he ever sings I mean), the saves are nice thou

Care to explain the animal line ? and thanks for the answer.


If I had to guess, he's a Chameleon rather than an actual full-caster.
Bang on . It is a neat little class that works well with a mad array of base classes jotted together.
Fun for the player


So far it seems Reach , Occular and Chain spell makes the good buffs available for the other players aswell.

Haste lvl 1, Fist of stone , Cloud of knives, Divine favor, balor nimbus, hunters eye, things similar to that. And that druid one that gives +2 to spot to all aliies.

Thanks for the help folks

[Khedrac]

-Haste is perfect, except when you use it on yourself and share it with your familiar. In this group it is all about perceptions of power. He is not the most powerful, but understands the game better. Hence haste on the druids animal companion instead.. wich is wasted since he forgets to direct it.
That reads like you are using 3.0 Haste which is single target and a lot more powerful (extra standard action). 3.5 Haste is one target per level and extra attack on full attack (plus to hit, AC and move boosts).

As for the druid forgetting to direct his ac, just say "Haste up on all including <insert name of AC>, send it in now" and the druid has no excuse.
There's very little one can do when other players choose really bad choices for their actions...

[Sewercop]

Actually not.. I am looking at 3.5 haste. except for a decade or so we have played with it as a single target for some reason. Probably due to other games wherein haste is single target.

Thank you, learned some new to today

[atemu1234]

Actually not.. I am looking at 3.5 haste. except for a decade or so we have played with it as a single target for some reason. Probably due to other games wherein haste is single target.

Thank you, learned some new to today

Maybe you played 3e and mixed the two in your mind?

[Sewercop]

Maybe you played 3e and mixed the two in your mind?

Nope, that would be nice thou. I do miss the extra action.
It is just a plain oversight, happens from time to time.

[Hiro Quester]

Care to explain the animal line ? and thanks for the answer.


This is referring to Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace, etc.

War Weaver Handbooks have a good list of useful buff spells to check out. Like this one (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5881), for example.

Spells that have mass effect (like Haste) are indeed good options.
Consider Rage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rage.htm) for instance. 1 creature/3 levels gets to rage like a barbarian, but without the fatigue.
Or Good Hope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/goodHope.htm) 1 creature/level gets +2 morale bonus on all on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls.

[Petrocorus]

Yes he is outshining them to a degree. The most overlooked part of the Tier system JaronK put forward are that it assumes equal understanding of the game.

Not overlooked. It's an explicit assumption.



Lets just put it this way, the druid forgets his spells, forgets to buy armor, forgets to use wildshape, forgets to use his animal companion. Complains the gm dont let him buy equipment.
The Bard forgets to inspire,forgets to dragon inspire, takes exotic weapon prof repeating crossbow, forgets to buy gear, only active when its combat.

I see the problem. I assumed there were some warriors guy. So, they are outshined because they don't use their potential. You can talk to them, but if they don't start using their strength, it's not the fault of the Chameleon who should be on the same level of power than the Bard. And certainly less powerful than the Druid In Combat.

Direct them to the Handbook Index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0) and maybe to the Noob Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9479.0)



Haste lvl 1, Fist of stone , Cloud of knives, Divine favor, balor nimbus, hunters eye, things similar to that. And that druid one that gives +2 to spot to all aliies.

Except Haste, all those spells are single target IIRC.


Actually not.. I am looking at 3.5 haste. except for a decade or so we have played with it as a single target for some reason. Probably due to other games wherein haste is single target.

Haste is so powahful because it allows a large number of target. That's why it's considered a bigger damage dealer than Fireball and the like.


This is referring to Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace, etc.

Indeed.



War Weaver Handbooks have a good list of useful buff spells to check out. Like this one (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5881), for example.


Thank you so much for this HB.

[Theodred theOld]

For buffing you really can't go wrong with bull's strength for a quick +4 to strength, but why stop there? Let's have a little fun with the big stabby guy who defends our squishy innards from harm. Throw him a girallons blessing because who doesn't want two more usable arms. He'll give you some funny looks until you cast fuse arms. +4 to strength for each set of arms fused. Thats a nifty +12 to strength. Takes a few rounds to get going but points for style.