Help Interrogating a Captive

[ArcanistSupreme]

Recently, our party was tasked with intercepting a high-ranking mage to prevent him from delivering a message to another part of the city. After quite the struggle, we succeeded in taking him alive, and we discovered the following note on his person:

Plans don't survive first contact with the enemy eh. especially not surprise enemies from the other side of the continent. Bull will be mobilizing Morn Ethir intelligence in Western Erynie and Hufara to better track movements, Until further details from them or current elements already in place, continue implementing your plans.

If the desert clergy have no further surprise attacks from halfway across the world in the immediate future then it will play further into our hands, Northam will have to at least mobilize an Irnil to support the shambled navy. Your work with our Irnil's is much appreciated

Working with the children continues to bear fruit. the gnomes in Navisson are acting as the children pronounced. Pirouette continues to deliver as promised, regardless, his more ambitious plans still require scrutiny. Though his Children's plan to deliver another assassination is interesting, we shall have to proceed and plan with circumspect caution, despite their obvious expertise in this area.

Gary's "oak tree" counter proposal is interesting, but will have to be shelved until situations are normalized. He is a possible alternative pointman to the children than Pirouette, with his familial connections. His brashness is something to observe, regardless.
I am proceeding to use Gary's connection +knowledge concerning the Star Affair, he seemed motivated to deliver results.

What are your thoughts on our actions moving forward? We will continue to coordinate closely with Mr. Mild Mannered, act through his liaison.

Yours truly,
Mr. Pain

Here's what we've got so far:

The first paragraph refers to an enemy nation hitting the docks of the capitol city. We don't know who Bull is, but the rest just says that they are stepping up intelligence. Very straightforward.
The second paragraph again refers to the same enemy nation, and reveals that the capitol's navy is severely weakened. Again straightforward.
The third paragraph is where we run into trouble. Navisson is the gnomish nation, but we can't figure out who Pirouette or the Children are. There's an assassin's guild down there, so we suspect them to be the head of the guild and the guild respectively, but we can't be sure.
We think that Gary is the son of the assassin's guild leader, but we don't know what the "'oak tree' counter" is.
The Star Affair refers to some trouble stirred up by the ninja of our party, a former assassin's guild member who is the rival of Gary (if our guess is correct).
Finally, we don't know the identity of Mr. Pain or Mr. Mild-Mannered. Mr. Pain could be the one we captured, or it could be someone up the food chain.


The issue is that we don't know for sure what a lot of the things the note refers to are. We are preparing to interrogate the mage, but we don't want to necessarily tip him off to how ignorant we are. Does anyone have any tips for how to proceed?

[FocusWolf413]

What's your level? You could simply mindrape him if you're of a high level.

If you aren't, try pounding him with enchantment magic until he falls under your control. Domination, charm, or anything else would work. After he is thoroughly enchanted, ask away. Cast detect thoughts, zone of truth, or one of the other spells that have a similar function if you feel your DM is going to be troublesome. Worst case, try torturing the info out of him. If he dies, cast speak with dead.

[Sith_Happens]

If you aren't, try pounding him with enchantment magic until he falls under your control. Domination, charm, or anything else would work. After he is thoroughly enchanted, ask away. Cast detect thoughts, zone of truth, or one of the other spells that have a similar function if you feel your DM is going to be troublesome.

This. Charm and Dominate are both easy, flawless interrogations in convenient spell form. Once you've learned everything you need or want to, use whatever means you wish of ensuring that his knowing you had to ask all those things doesn't become a problem later.

[atemu1234]

This. Charm and Dominate are both easy, flawless interrogations in convenient spell form. Once you've learned everything you need or want to, use whatever means you wish of ensuring that his knowing you had to ask all those things doesn't become a problem later.

But Mindrape is more fun...

[ArcanistSupreme]

We're level 4, so mindrape and dominate are right out. We might be able to scrounge up a scroll of charm person, but our wizard doesn't know it and magic is tightly controled by the elvish government. We can try the black market, but there is no guarantee we can get one. So what if we're forced to do it the old fashioned way?

[Hypername]

Use Intimidate to threaten him and Bluff to make him feel safe. Essentialy play good cop-bad cop with him.

[FocusWolf413]

We're level 4, so mindrape and dominate are right out. We might be able to scrounge up a scroll of charm person, but our wizard doesn't know it and magic is tightly controled by the elvish government. We can try the black market, but there is no guarantee we can get one. So what if we're forced to do it the old fashioned way?

What about detect thoughts?

After you rough him up a bit, heal him. KeEp doing this for a few days. After that, have your person with the highest intimidate score work with him. Have him describe, in vivid detail, all of the horrible tortures that you'll inflict on him. Some good ones include throwing him into a cell with rapists and a stick of butter, flaying him, breaking his teeth, gouging out his eyes, ripping the cartilage in his knees and making him walk, slicing his genitals down the length of his urethra and peeling off the skin, or pretty much anything else that's creative and nasty. Freak out your dm.

Don't forget to actually do those things to him.

[Necroticplague]

Try a guilty conscious test. Use detect thoughts to see his surface thoughts. Then, bring up what you know. This should end up with him thinking about what they are, if only through the 'don't think of pink elephants' problem. Thus, even if he says nothing, you should be able to get some info.

[ArcanistSupreme]

We don't have detect thoughts either. Our wizard player is a little on the lazy side when it comes to picking up new spells.

[Hypername]

We don't have detect thoughts either. Our wizard player is a little on the lazy side when it comes to picking up new spells.

I told you, try good cop-bad cop approach.

[ArcanistSupreme]

I told you, try good cop-bad cop approach.

Sorry, yeah, that's a good idea. I guess I was looking for something a little more specific in hopes of getting a circumstance bonus. Something like the torture thing that was suggested (which is excellent, but evil in a semi-good party).

As a side note, we have a wand of cure light wounds, but I don't know how easily we could replace it at this point. So if we torture this guy, we'll probably have to rely on heal checks to keep him stable and alive. There's a little bit of a time crunch, so we might have a few days, but sending him into negatives and waiting for him to heal is an iffy strategy.

[OttoVonBigby]

Considering your constraints, and the fact that this guy is "high-ranking," I'd consider the carrot approach.

"Look, you got bested--by *US*--and that's gonna reflect poorly on you in the eyes of your dark masters. You tell us what we want to know and we'll help you get across the border" or whatever. Don't even hint at rough stuff.

Then hold up your end of the bargain, just in case he holds something back out of mistrust.

[Seclora]

What about detect thoughts?

After you rough him up a bit, heal him. KeEp doing this for a few days. After that, have your person with the highest intimidate score work with him. Have him describe, in vivid detail, all of the horrible tortures that you'll inflict on him. Some good ones include throwing him into a cell with rapists and a stick of butter, flaying him, breaking his teeth, gouging out his eyes, ripping the cartilage in his knees and making him walk, slicing his genitals down the length of his urethra and peeling off the skin, or pretty much anything else that's creative and nasty. Freak out your dm.

Don't forget to actually do those things to him.

Have someone run detect thoughts while you read him the letter. Do so daily for a week, record his thoughts.

Don't torture him, waste of time. 99% of the time they just tell you what they think you want to hear so you'll stop. Threatening is fine, there are rules for Intimidating someone friendly, although you're still better off with Diplomacy.

Suggestion: If you were to explain this letter, we would have no further reason to keep you here. If you cooperate, we would let you go. Is likely to go over well, since it is a fairly reasonable suggestion.

[FocusWolf413]

Something like the torture thing that was suggested (which is excellent, but evil in a semi-good party).
...... There's a little bit of a time crunch, so we might have a few days, but sending him into negatives and waiting for him to heal is an iffy strategy.

Use cure minor wounds. It's a cantrip.

Also, without spells, most of the different kinds of information extraction are evil. Just remember that your actions are done for your opinion of the greater good, and your alignment shouldn't change. If it does, save orphans or something.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Have someone run detect thoughts while you read him the letter. Do so daily for a week, record his thoughts.

Don't torture him, waste of time. 99% of the time they just tell you what they think you want to hear so you'll stop. Threatening is fine, there are rules for Intimidating someone friendly, although you're still better off with Diplomacy.

Suggestion: If you were to explain this letter, we would have no further reason to keep you here. If you cooperate, we would let you go. Is likely to go over well, since it is a fairly reasonable suggestion.


We don't have detect thoughts either. Our wizard player is a little on the lazy side when it comes to picking up new spells.

:smallfrown:


Considering your constraints, and the fact that this guy is "high-ranking," I'd consider the carrot approach.

"Look, you got bested--by *US*--and that's gonna reflect poorly on you in the eyes of your dark masters. You tell us what we want to know and we'll help you get across the border" or whatever. Don't even hint at rough stuff.

Then hold up your end of the bargain, just in case he holds something back out of mistrust.

This I like. We're not sure how high-ranking this guy is, but we might point out that if we let him go, he's damaged goods. Why should anyone trust him if he's been missing for days and all of a sudden shows up completely unharmed? So we offer to set him up somewhere else at the low, low cost of an explanation.


Use cure minor wounds. It's a cantrip.

Also, without spells, most of the different kinds of information extraction are evil. Just remember that your actions are done for your opinion of the greater good, and your alignment shouldn't change. If it does, save orphans or something.


As a side note, we have a wand of cure light wounds, but I don't know how easily we could replace it at this point. So if we torture this guy, we'll probably have to rely on heal checks to keep him stable and alive. There's a little bit of a time crunch, so we might have a few days, but sending him into negatives and waiting for him to heal is an iffy strategy.

This is all we have for healing magic. Also, this is a Pathfinder campaign, so cure minor wounds isn't a thing (sorry it's not in the OP, I didn't think it was that relevant).

As for the greater good argument, my character at least would find torture as brutal as that hard to justify if the fate of the world was on the line, let alone a situation where we don't even know what's on the line.

[Ferronach]

Tell him that if he does not answer your questions, you will get one of the praty to walk through town with him.
Make sure the party member is obvious about trying not to be noticed (sneaking poorly with really bad disquises etc.) and is known to the bad guys as one of the good guys.

This way you are not doing anything unlawful or evil.
The bad guys will think that the wizard dude is a mole and is helping you out.
The wizard will know that he is as good a s dead/ruined if this happens so he will most likely cooperate.

On a side note: I think Pain is the guy that this dude works for. He is carruing the note to the meeting to hand it to "Mr. Nast temper" (or something along those lines).

Just had another thought!
You say this guy is a mage, does he have a spell book? if he is a wizardy type he would have one on hand that your wizard could use.
Burning the guys spell book in front of him would be a huuuge blow to him XD

[Sith_Happens]

Use Intimidate to threaten him and Bluff to make him feel safe. Essentialy play good cop-bad cop with him.

Don't forget Diplomacy.

[Shining Wrath]

I doubt the captured mage is Mr. Pain, as there's little point to delivering your own secret message.

More flies are caught with honey than with vinegar. You could attempt seduction if you have a party member of an appropriate race and other characteristics.

[FocusWolf413]

:

This is all we have for healing magic. Also, this is a Pathfinder campaign, so cure minor wounds isn't a thing (sorry it's not in the OP, I didn't think it was that relevant).

Ask your DM if you can use that spell. It shouldn't be that much of a problem.

What is on your wizard's spell list? Who is in the party? Who focuses on what skills?



You say this guy is a mage, does he have a spell book? if he is a wizardy type he would have one on hand that your wizard could use.
Burning the guys spell book in front of him would be a huuuge blow to him XD

Hopefully, the enemy wizard wasn't a dunce when it came to spell selection.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Tell him that if he does not answer your questions, you will get one of the praty to walk through town with him.
Make sure the party member is obvious about trying not to be noticed (sneaking poorly with really bad disquises etc.) and is known to the bad guys as one of the good guys.

This way you are not doing anything unlawful or evil.
The bad guys will think that the wizard dude is a mole and is helping you out.
The wizard will know that he is as good a s dead/ruined if this happens so he will most likely cooperate.

On a side note: I think Pain is the guy that this dude works for. He is carruing the note to the meeting to hand it to "Mr. Nast temper" (or something along those lines).

Yeah, that's kind of along the lines of what I was thinking. Threaten character assassination instead of/in addition to bodily harm.


Just had another thought!
You say this guy is a mage, does he have a spell book? if he is a wizardy type he would have one on hand that your wizard could use.
Burning the guys spell book in front of him would be a huuuge blow to him XD

That was one of the first things we checked for (we are adventurers after all). He left it at home that day, which is reasonable since he was expecting to be back home soon instead of in our bag of holding.


Don't forget Diplomacy.

Conveniently, we have a house rule that social skill are all one skill. So we plan to! But our DM is going to ask us how we are going about it and what we're asking. I want to make sure we have all of the bases covered and that we are limiting unforeseen consequences.


I doubt the captured mage is Mr. Pain, as there's little point to delivering your own secret message.

More flies are caught with honey than with vinegar. You could attempt seduction if you have a party member of an appropriate race and other characteristics.

The first part is a good point. The second part... well, we could try honey. But saying, "Hey, I know we kidnapped you and killed your companions and all, but how about some nice sex?" seems like it wouldn't go over very well.


Ask your DM if you can use that spell. It shouldn't be that much of a problem.

What is on your wizard's spell list? Who is in the party? Who focuses on what skills?

We don't have a caster who could use it even if we did. We have a warder (me) with ranks in Social (Diplomacy, Bluff, etc), a Ranger who can use the wand of cure light wounds but probably has little else to offer in this situation, a ninja who is a wanted criminal and has ranks in Intimidate (he will make an excellent bad cop to my good cop), and the wizard who's spell list is mainly combat focused with few/no utility spells.

1st Level
Sleep, Burning Disarm, Shield, Grease, Expeditious Retreat, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person, Burning Hands, Magic Missile

2nd Level
Web, Bull's Strength, Glitterdust, Animal Aspect, Hideous Laughter



Hopefully, the enemy wizard wasn't a dunce when it came to spell selection.

Now, to be fair, our wizard has a pretty solid list for combat situations. The player is just lazy, so he doesn't bother to round out his spell list at all (I'm pretty sure that he's found a spellbook and scrolls before, and he just hasn't bothered learning the spells). Unfortunately, the captured wizard left his book at home so the point is moot.

[Ferronach]

Unfortunately, the captured wizard left his book at home so the point is moot.

I call Shenanigans on your DM!

No Wizard worth his salt ever goes anywhere without his spell book!
They even take it to the crapper for some "light reading..."
http://media.tumblr.com/400119a33d767c7e09af12d1980c2caf/tumblr_inline_nehi30Q7ys1qcpylx.gif

[FocusWolf413]

I call Shenanigans on your DM!

No Wizard worth his salt ever goes anywhere without his spell book!


I concur. Even if he didn't have his main grimoire (which is logical), he would have a backup spellbook for emergencies on his person at all times. Being prepared is what wizards do. The fact that he had no spell book means you have one of two things: a trap or a spiteful DM. Watch out for scry-n-dies.

He will crack eventually. Although they won't give you much by RAW, a logical DM would give a +2 circumstance bonus to bluff and intimidate per status effect such as exhausted or sickened. They're more emotionally fragile when they are deprived of sleep, starving, dehydrated, or sick. Make sure you season your torture with some diplomacy.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Ooo, I like no sleep. Effective but not totally inhumane.

[JeenLeen]

In a recent game, we captured someone. We threatened torture (a bluff, but we think he failed to read it as a bluff), but he replied how torture doesn't often work and eventually he'll say whatever just to make us stop, so we couldn't tell when he was lying or not; and if we planned on killing him regardless, he would rather die without betraying his boss. A good point. So we moved to "Well, tell us what we want, or you lose a hand. You still live, but that'll make it rough for you later on."

We eventually got around it by (essentially) mind-reading powers and a geas (this was Exalted, and I was Eclipse caste), but it seemed a good tactic.

I'm not sure how it would carry over to HP damage. If you used hot knife, it would (I reckon) cauterize the wound quickly, so you might get the DM to let you just rp the 'cut off a finger' instead of rolling damage and such. If the DM makes you roll, I guess it could be a low (knife is 1d4, right?) auto-crit at the worst. Maybe if you can find something with a lower damage die, use that.
Sorry to hear about the lack of magical healing. Losing a hand is a big deal to a spellcaster dependent on somatic components.
Also, unless your DM prefers it, I recommend not going into detail on the torture. Maybe ask OOC if that would be positive (help you get a circumstance bonus; considered good rp) or not.

Also, check him for multiple spell component pouches and gag him/tie up his hands when not actively interrogating. No reason to let him possibly use somatic- or vocal-only spells.

[Sith_Happens]

Ooo, I like no sleep. Effective but not totally inhumane.

No sleep could easily turn him into an incoherent wreck incapable of telling you anything useful even if he wanted to. Go with little and/or constantly interrupted sleep instead.

Also make sure not to feed him very much, and make a point of eating your own meals right in front of him.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Also, check him for multiple spell component pouches and gag him/tie up his hands when not actively interrogating. No reason to let him possibly use somatic- or vocal-only spells.

Do people *not* do that with captured spell casters? :smalltongue:


No sleep could easily turn him into an incoherent wreck incapable of telling you anything useful even if he wanted to. Go with little and/or constantly interrupted sleep instead.

Also make sure not to feed him very much, and make a point of eating your own meals right in front of him.

Aw, you're no fun. But yeah, we'll let him sleep a little. As to eating the meals, my character has a magic item of abstemiousness, so I'll have to get the others to help out. I'm sure the sadistic ninja/assassin will be all too happy.

[FocusWolf413]

You should cut off his legs so he can't run away. Just keep that wand handy. You might want to do the thing the other guy suggested and cut off his hands, rendering him incapable of casting spells without a feat.

[Lerondiel]

For something a little less CE, see if poisons/contagions can damage his wisdom...then a Charm Person has more of a chance.