True Polymorph Retirement

[Ardantis]

A party of 20th level adventurers decide to retire by True Polymorphing into high CR creatures. What do they Polymorph into?

Wizard- Ancient Brass Dragon
Paladin- Planetar
Warlock- Balor
Rogue- Elder Air Elemental

What would the rest become?

[Giant2005]

I'm not sure I get it...
If I were going to retire I wouldn't turn myself into a monster first - if I plan on living a lifestyle where I don't need the extra strength of being a monster, I may as well be me.

[Ardantis]

I'm looking at it as 'moving on to a new stage of life.'

I was inspired by the comment in the True Polymorph thread that said 'what if all dragons are just polymorphed wizards?'

[jkat718]

I'm not sure I get it...
If I were going to retire I wouldn't turn myself into a monster first - if I plan on living a lifestyle where I don't need the extra strength of being a monster, I may as well be me.

The idea stems from the True Polymorph Into An Ancient Brass Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409186-True-Polymorph-Into-An-Ancient-Brass-Dragon) thread, where it was asked why a level 20 spellcaster wouldn't transform into an Ancient Brass Dragon, which is CR 20, using True Polymorph, because it can use Change Shape to become humanoid again. The thread devolved into petty arguing over the semantics of the MM appendix with NPCs in it, but the main point that was brought up was whether or not a spellcaster retains its abilities in various forms. This led to the idea, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409186-True-Polymorph-Into-An-Ancient-Brass-Dragon/page2&p=19099736#post19099736), that True Polymorph (Creature into Creature) into Ancient Brass Dragon form was the epitome of epic retirement methods for wizards. The Solar idea was brought up here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19103734&postcount=84).

[Shining Wrath]

I think it's pretty clear a Draconic Sorcerer becomes the ancestral dragon. In fact, even if they don't have enough levels to match the CR (e.g., Gold), I'd be tempted to handwave that away as a DM on the grounds that they are already partially the creature into which they are being polymorphed, and a 20th level Draconic Sorcerer is a very dragonish thing to be. Especially if this is a walk-off moment.

Wild Mage Sorcerer would be some powerful Fey, have to port something from 3.5.

A Druid could become a Paragon of whatever their favorite creature is, a Paragon being the ultimate form of that creature - e.g., if the druid likes butterflies, they become Mothra-sized. Again, we'd have to pull this across from 3.5.

A barbarian becomes Rage Personified. He becomes the Tarrasque. Reduce the HP until you get down to ~ CR 20, but the Tarrasque now has the intelligence of the barbarian which ought to make up for a few lost HP - in fact, that's a pretty scary thing to contemplate, a Tarrasque skilled in the use of martial weapons including ranged ones.

PC: "We try to kite the Tarrasque!"
DM: "The Tarrasque removes a crossbow from its belt and fires a bolt ... which hits ... take 8D8 damage and you are immobilized until someone lifts the telephone pole off of you".

[jkat718]

PC: "We try to kite the Tarrasque!"
DM: "The Tarrasque removes a crossbow from its belt and fires a bolt ... which hits ... take 8D8 damage and you are immobilized until someone lifts the telephone pole off of you".

Permission to sig? :smallbiggrin:

This whole topic makes me want to make arch-versions of each class, using the creature creation methods. Basically, take the stereotypical level 20 character for each class, calculate its CR, and create a statblock for it. Possibly scale it down to CR 20, to make it a viable option for True Polymorph.

[Shining Wrath]

Permission to sig? :smallbiggrin:

This whole topic makes me want to make arch-versions of each class, using the creature creation methods. Basically, take the stereotypical level 20 character for each class, calculate its CR, and create a statblock for it. Possibly scale it down to CR 20, to make it a viable option for True Polymorph.

You may sig at will.

I'd be very interested in that project, but I'd say you'll create "a" stereotypical level 20 character rather than "the". For example, Fighters - 3 archetypes, each of which can choose several fighting styles. There's a combinatorial explosion headed your way, and those can really hurt.

[charcoalninja]

The Bard decides that being a full caster wasn't enough of a power boost and retires as an Aboleth, becoming impossible to permanently kill and able to swim the planes entrancing the universe to his abberant whale song.

[Shining Wrath]

The Bard decides that being a full caster wasn't enough of a power boost and retires as an Aboleth, becoming impossible to permanently kill and able to swim the planes entrancing the universe to his abberant whale song.

I was wondering about that ... an aboleth reforms on the elemental plane of water. What if you travel to the elemental plane of water and kill an aboleth there? Presumably the aboleth forms way out on the plane where things are pretty watery, but none the less, a sufficiently high level party should be able to track it down and kill it.

[Shining Wrath]

Fighters - Titans.

Rangers - some sort of Fey, again we need to port from 3.5 until they give us more than the 5 or so currently in the MM. Maybe some sort of super-sprite.

Cleric - demigod of his or her pantheon.

Monk - becomes Bruce Lee :smallbiggrin: Djinni?

[Xetheral]

I think it's pretty clear a Draconic Sorcerer becomes the ancestral dragon. In fact, even if they don't have enough levels to match the CR (e.g., Gold), I'd be tempted to handwave that away as a DM on the grounds that they are already partially the creature into which they are being polymorphed, and a 20th level Draconic Sorcerer is a very dragonish thing to be. Especially if this is a walk-off moment.

Wild Mage Sorcerer would be some powerful Fey, have to port something from 3.5.

A Druid could become a Paragon of whatever their favorite creature is, a Paragon being the ultimate form of that creature - e.g., if the druid likes butterflies, they become Mothra-sized. Again, we'd have to pull this across from 3.5.

A barbarian becomes Rage Personified. He becomes the Tarrasque. Reduce the HP until you get down to ~ CR 20, but the Tarrasque now has the intelligence of the barbarian which ought to make up for a few lost HP - in fact, that's a pretty scary thing to contemplate, a Tarrasque skilled in the use of martial weapons including ranged ones.

PC: "We try to kite the Tarrasque!"
DM: "The Tarrasque removes a crossbow from its belt and fires a bolt ... which hits ... take 8D8 damage and you are immobilized until someone lifts the telephone pole off of you".

Now I want to play a Tarrasque craftsman who makes belts and crossbows for his brethren.

[Shining Wrath]

Now I want to play a Tarrasque craftsman who makes belts and crossbows for his brethren.

Given the Tarrasque's monstrous proficiency is +9 (IIRC), you'd be the finest craftsman in the land given tool proficiency and reasonable INT. I now imagine a Tarrasque with a jeweler's loupe, crafting tiny (to a Tarrasque) heavy crossbows for human use.

[Easy_Lee]

True Polymorph yourself into a sentient magic weapon. Wait until a hapless adventurer breaks you by accident to spring out unharmed and claim that he's the chosen one.

[Naanomi]

Sadly the level 20 warlock just turns into a Lemure or equivalent when his contract ends

[Ralanr]

Shouldn't a paladin be a Solar?

What about making a Barbarian into a Empyrean? I'd say storm giant but they're only CR 13.

[hawklost]

Shouldn't a paladin be a Solar?

What about making a Barbarian into a Empyrean? I'd say storm giant but they're only CR 13.

Solar is CR 21
Empyrean is CR 23

Now it is possible for a paladin to get to CR 21 (from lvl 20) but I am not sure they would like the way.

As for CR 23, they would have to have 3 more class levels over 20 to do that sadly.

[MadBear]

True Polymorph yourself into a sentient magic weapon. Wait until a hapless adventurer breaks you by accident to spring out unharmed and claim that he's the chosen one.

Or have this be your intended plan, only to go utterly insane from spending thousands of years trapped in an object.

[jkat718]

You may sig at will.
Thanks!


I'd be very interested in that project, but I'd say you'll create "a" stereotypical level 20 character rather than "the". For example, Fighters - 3 archetypes, each of which can choose several fighting styles. There's a combinatorial explosion headed your way, and those can really hurt.
What I meant was using a Champion Fighter, Thief Rogue, College of Lore Bard, Open Hand Monk, etc. Take the most generic form of the class, the first thing that most people think of when they think of that class. In addition to those archetypes from above, I would probably use Berserker Barbarian, Life Domain Cleric, Oath of Devotion Paladin, and Hunter Ranger. I'd probably go with Moon Druid and Wild Magic Sorcerer, but I'm not sure for either of those. Probably either Fiend/Chain or GOO/Tome for Warlock, and literally no idea for Wizard. I'd probably end up using a base Wizard, and have each school as a different variant.


The Bard decides that being a full caster wasn't enough of a power boost and retires as an Aboleth, becoming impossible to permanently kill and able to swim the planes entrancing the universe to his abberant whale song.
I can just picture an Aboleth pulling the strings to make the plot as cliche as possible (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0912.html).


Now I want to play a Tarrasque craftsman who makes belts and crossbows for his brethren.
I always thought of the Tarrasque as being a singleton, rather than one of a race of beings, but that's just me.


Now it is possible for a paladin to get to CR 21 (from lvl 20) but I am not sure they would like the way.
What do you mean? How would they do that?

[Safety Sword]

Or have this be your intended plan, only to go utterly insane from spending thousands of years trapped in an object.

Sounds like a campaign villain idea to me.

[MadBear]

Sounds like a campaign villain idea to me.

that would be the ultimate troll villain. The bad guy who is a bad guy because of a terrible prank gone awry.

[Shining Wrath]

that would be the ultimate troll villain. The bad guy who is a bad guy because of a terrible prank gone awry.

Wizard got drunk, cast Meld Into Stone so no one would murder him as he slept, and fell asleep. While he slept the long-prophesied but never believed Doom came to the city, and when he woke up the stone was deep underground, and he could not exit the stone, and did not have Teleport prepared.

So there he remained, trapped inside a largish hunk of rubble, for thousands of years, until the long-prophesied but never believed Archeologist came to the rubble and excavated him.

[Ardantis]

Indiana Jones?

[Shining Wrath]

Indiana Jones?

And no one ever believed Indy, least of all his own father.

Sean Connery was almost unbelievably cute in that role :smallsmile:

But yeah, I can see Indiana Jones exposing an ancient slab of stone, and the primordial wizard steps out and commences cackling madly, not being particularly sane after 3,000 years of staring into the blackness hearing nothing.

[SharkForce]

What do you mean? How would they do that?

step 1: get true polymorphed into a demilich
step 2: eat a soul. turn into a full lich. you are now CR 21.
step 3: use your lich spellcasting powers (you may need to research true polymorph, i can't recall their prepared spells list) to turn yourself into a CR 21 solar.

it may or may not be necessary (or at least beneficial) to build a lair somewhere in between step 2 and step 3, i can't properly recall.

on a side note, it is important to recall that you lose all of your own proficiencies and gain the proficiencies (and attributes, including mental attributes) of the kind of creature you're turning into, retaining only your own personality and alignment. or at least, that's officially what happens. for obvious reasons, if your paladin turns into a demilich and eats someone's soul, you are unlikely to retain any good alignment you may have formerly had).

so, for example, you probably won't be turning into a weaponsmith tarrasque any time soon, at least, not without houserules (that said, if your DM is letting you turn into the tarrasque, it's not like a tarrasque that makes weapons is more broken or anything, so really, it's not exactly a huge barrier).

[Tvtyrant]

What I like most about it is that you basically are becoming Borys from Dark Sun.

[Malifice]

The good thing is you could then go around again, taking a level in a class and advancing back to 20th.

Even looks like the first level is free thanks to it taking zero xp to advance to 1st level.

So polymorph into a Brass dragon, take your free level in wizard (0 XP needed) then keep adventuring till you hit 20th again.

[Inevitability]

I always thought of the Tarrasque as being a singleton, rather than one of a race of beings, but that's just me.

Spelljammer has a planet of Tarrasques.

Then again, it's Spelljammer.

[Ralanr]

Spelljammer has a planet of Tarrasques.

Then again, it's Spelljammer.

I need to play this setting. I'd call that the planet of NOPE.

[jkat718]

The good thing is you could then go around again, taking a level in a class and advancing back to 20th.

Even looks like the first level is free thanks to it taking zero xp to advance to 1st level.

So polymorph into a Brass dragon, take your free level in wizard (0 XP needed) then keep adventuring till you hit 20th again.
Y'know, technically, the books never say you can't take more class levels past 20. :smallwink: They just don't have any information on what you get, besides the increased ability score cap and the ability to gain Epic Boons, as well as saying that you get those options every 30k XP past level 20. Why not just keep leveling up? Major fluff issues aside, you could theoretically be a Barbarian 20/Bard 20/Cleric 20/Druid 20/Fighter 20/Monk 20/Paladin 20/Ranger 20/Rogue 20/Sorcerer 20/Warlock 20/Wizard 20, you just need... (355k + (30k * 20)) = 955k XP. Gotcha. Just solo 6 Tarrasques and a mule. :smallbiggrin: Now all we need is a CR 240 creature...


Spelljammer has a planet of Tarrasques.

Then again, it's Spelljammer.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Spelljammer. Dammit, now I have to forget it again! :smalltongue:

EDIT:
I need to play this setting. I'd call that the planet of NOPE.

Actually, it's called Falx (http://spelljammer.wikia.com/wiki/SJR4_Practical_Planetology#Contents). Wikipedia claims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrasque_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29#Origin) that "several hundred Tarrasques live there," but the Spelljammer wiki entry for the book doesn't mention this in its description of Falx.

[Shining Wrath]

Spelljammer has a planet of Tarrasques.

Then again, it's Spelljammer.

Wait until they gain space flight.

"That's not a moon. That's a ship full of Tarrasques"
"And none of them are sissies!"
Sing Tarrasques Tarrasques Tarrasques Tarrasques Tarrasques Tarrasques Tarrasques Tarrasques

[Spojaz]

Is there a limit that it has to be animate?
I could see a Druid polymorphing to something like yggdrasil. Giant tree, lasts centuries, presiding over it's forest. Just growing. Sounds relaxing.

[mister__joshua]

I haven't seen it mentioned, but I planned a True Polymorph retirement for my Bard based on Clone. It seems like the best way to experiment and get around the permanency issues.
Build clone > polymorph into new and interesting creature > fly around for a month > kill self > try something new :-D