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DiscipleofBob
2015-04-14, 11:00 AM
Barbarian Primal Path
Totem of the Drake

Flavor: Not every ecosystem has the bear, the wolf, or the eagle as staples. In certain Dragonborn populated areas, Drakes are the most common form of wildlife. Whether it's the pigeon-like Spiretop Drakes, the domesticated Guard Drakes, or the savage Rage Drakes, these draconic creatures are an important part of Dragonborn culture, replacing most other forms of livestock, pets, or beasts of burden with their draconic equivalents. For Dragonborn Barbarians, choosing a Drake as a spirit guide and totem is often far more appropriate than a mammal or bird.

At 3rd level, if you select Drake as your Totem Spirit, choose one dragon color as per the Draconic Ancestry table in the Dragonborn Traits section of the Player's Handbook. For your Totem Spirit and any future class features you choose Drake for, use the same Draconic Ancestry for its Breath Weapon and Damage Type as noted. If you select a different Totem Spirit and at a later level choose to take a feature of the Drake totem, then you make the choice for Draconic Ancestry at that level. If you are Dragonborn or gain the Draconic Ancestry trait from a different source, the Draconic Ancestry of your totem can be different from the Draconic Ancestry you already have.

3rd Level: Totem Spirit - Drake: While you are raging, you are wreathed in an aura of elemental energy based on the Draconic Ancestry of your totem. When an attacker hits you with a melee attack, the attacker takes 2 damage of the element of your Damage Type. At 6th level, this increases to 3 damage. At 14th level, this increases to 4 damage. At the DM's discretion, the aura may also affect anything that comes into contact with you. For example, an aura of fire or acid could burn through ropes if you're tied up.

In addition, once per rage, while you are raging, you can use your action to exhale destructive energy, as per the Dragonborn Breath Weapon. The Draconic Ancestry of your totem determines the size, shape, and damage type of the exhalation. When you use your breath weapon, each creature in the area of the exhalation must make a saving throw, the type of which is determined by your totem's Draconic Ancestry. The DC for this saving throw equals 8 + your Constitution modifer + your proficiency bonus. A creature takes 2d6 damage on a failed save, and half as much damage on a successful one. The damage increases to 3d6 at 6th level and 4d6 at 14th level.

6th Level: Aspect of the Beast - Drake: You inspire fear as if your opponents faced a true dragon. You gain advantage on Intimidate checks, and you are immune to being frightened and fear effects.

14th Level: Totemic Attunement - Drake: You grow patches of draconic scales over your body. Your Unarmored Defense becomes 12 + your Dexterity modifer + your Constitution modifer. You gain resistance to the Damage Type associated with your totem's Draconic Ancestry. While raging, you gain immunity to the Damage Type associated with your totem's Draconic Ancestry.

Ralanr
2015-04-14, 11:22 AM
Isn't the final ability the same as the third berserker ability?

DiscipleofBob
2015-04-14, 11:28 AM
Isn't the final ability the same as the third berserker ability?

Mostly, yes. It's a little better than the berserker version since it can be used as a Bonus Action. I used that as the basis. I figure since that's a different subclass the overlap isn't as big of a deal.

Ralanr
2015-04-14, 12:21 PM
Mostly, yes. It's a little better than the berserker version since it can be used as a Bonus Action. I used that as the basis. I figure since that's a different subclass the overlap isn't as big of a deal.

Fair enough. Not sure if it is on the same level of power/utility as the other 14th level totems. Also the 3rd level rage seems pointless for a dragonborn since they already have a breath attack. While that is pretty situational at best, I think it would be better to avoid making a class ability useless due to a race feature (Though you can take this with a grain of salt).

I like the 6th level ability, but it mostly applies to in combat scenarios while the others are all utility (more lift, farther sight range, tracking). If that's not too bothersome then it's not a problem.

DiscipleofBob
2015-04-14, 12:38 PM
Fair enough. Not sure if it is on the same level of power/utility as the other 14th level totems. Also the 3rd level rage seems pointless for a dragonborn since they already have a breath attack. While that is pretty situational at best, I think it would be better to avoid making a class ability useless due to a race feature (Though you can take this with a grain of salt).

I like the 6th level ability, but it mostly applies to in combat scenarios while the others are all utility (more lift, farther sight range, tracking). If that's not too bothersome then it's not a problem.

The Breath Weapon gives non-draconic races some of that same flavor, but Dragonborn still get the advantage since they get another Breath Weapon from their race. They basically get more ammunition. A Dragonborn could even get multiple kinds of breath weapons this way. I'd be open on limitations to not make it completely overshadow the racial trait if you think that'd be better.

I agree that the 14th level probably isn't on the same level as the other abilities of the same level. I guess on some level it could be argued that the earlier abilities make up for it, but I was having trouble coming up with something appropriate while raging. The dragon fear presence seemed like a good base flavor wise.

Ralanr
2015-04-14, 12:58 PM
The Breath Weapon gives non-draconic races some of that same flavor, but Dragonborn still get the advantage since they get another Breath Weapon from their race. They basically get more ammunition. A Dragonborn could even get multiple kinds of breath weapons this way. I'd be open on limitations to not make it completely overshadow the racial trait if you think that'd be better.

I agree that the 14th level probably isn't on the same level as the other abilities of the same level. I guess on some level it could be argued that the earlier abilities make up for it, but I was having trouble coming up with something appropriate while raging. The dragon fear presence seemed like a good base flavor wise.

I can relate. I tried coming up with one for my hyena totem homebrew. Did not like it.

If that's how you interpret the dragon breath then it works fine.

PotatoGolem
2015-04-14, 11:26 PM
I'd change the level 6 ability. None of the other level 6 options offer in-combat boosts- this is too good for combat-focused barbarians (ie most barbarians). Maybe have it be the 14th level feature?

DiscipleofBob
2015-04-15, 08:28 AM
I'd change the level 6 ability. None of the other level 6 options offer in-combat boosts- this is too good for combat-focused barbarians (ie most barbarians). Maybe have it be the 14th level feature?

Hm... I'm torn.

On second look I agree the level 6 is much better than the other totem abilities of the same level by virtue of being more combat oriented. I'm not sure what to use instead, as level 3 and 14 give bonuses while raging and level 6 is a passive. Something like growing dragon scales sounds more like a passive than something that just activated while raging, and I'm unsure of what I could put in its place for 6 or 14.

Any suggestions?

DanyBallon
2015-04-15, 09:32 AM
Hm... I'm torn.

On second look I agree the level 6 is much better than the other totem abilities of the same level by virtue of being more combat oriented. I'm not sure what to use instead, as level 3 and 14 give bonuses while raging and level 6 is a passive. Something like growing dragon scales sounds more like a passive than something that just activated while raging, and I'm unsure of what I could put in its place for 6 or 14.

Any suggestions?

What if at 6th level you grew scale and better senses that would give you something similar to the Ranger's Natural Explorer ability + you get a bonus or advantage to stealth check? This ability would work only in the related drake favored terrain i.e. green dragon=forest, red dragon=montain, white=snow, blue=desert, black =swamp, etc.

DiscipleofBob
2015-04-15, 10:15 AM
What if I made the level 6 ability the level 14 ability, unchanged (although it could be argued that it overshadows the other totems' 14 abilities due to being always on instead of just while raging), and change the level 6 to the 'Fear Presence' style ability, but just make it advantage on Intimidate checks?

Does that make more sense?

DanyBallon
2015-04-15, 10:59 AM
I just reread the other Path of the Totem animals, and my idea for 6th level ability is too much. Also I think that your 3rd level ability should be only the first part (you deal additionnal damage based on your associated element) otherwise, it's much more appealing thant the other totems.

6th level could prevent you to be frightened. After all a dragon fears nothing or nobody.

and what if 14th level ability while you're raging you can make a breath weapon (4d6 or 5d6) attack (as a bonus action?) This would end your rage and leave you with one level of exhaustion?

DiscipleofBob
2015-04-15, 12:51 PM
I just reread the other Path of the Totem animals, and my idea for 6th level ability is too much. Also I think that your 3rd level ability should be only the first part (you deal additionnal damage based on your associated element) otherwise, it's much more appealing thant the other totems.

6th level could prevent you to be frightened. After all a dragon fears nothing or nobody.

and what if 14th level ability while you're raging you can make a breath weapon (4d6 or 5d6) attack (as a bonus action?) This would end your rage and leave you with one level of exhaustion?

I'm personally satisfied with the 3rd-level ability being on par with the other totems. It was originally going to just be the dragon breath, but a once-per-rage ability seemed to be shortchanged compared to the always active passives like "resistance to all non-psychic damage." The dragon breath is the main part of the flavor, hence why it's at 3rd-level, and the other ability is to give the totem something besides the one-use ability. Also, ending the rage prematurely and adding a level of exhaustion both seem like overkill.

I like the idea of giving fear immunity at 6th level. Maybe also giving advantage on Intimidate checks.

DanyBallon
2015-04-15, 01:27 PM
I agree that the Bear resistance is quite strong, but Eagle gives disadvantage on opportunity attacks against you + dash as a bonus action and Wolf gives your friends advantage on melee attack rolls on any creatures within 5 feet of you. What you propose for Drake is scalable breath + elemental damage to enemies makes a melee attack against you. This is way overboard. I'd say the later part would be comparable to the other abilities. Breath alone would be on par, if not slightly better, with Bear and definately better than Eagle and Wolf

Don't forget that Path of the totem let you choose between each animal each time you get new ability. You're Drake 3rd level ability would definitely be a must have for Barbarian who wants to deal a lot of damage.

That's why I moved it to 14th level, maybe the End rage + exhaustion is a bit harsh, but if you check other 14th level abilities they are not that strong either.

I'm with you with adding advantage on Intimidation check at 6th would be in line with other abilities.

DiscipleofBob
2015-04-15, 01:58 PM
I agree that the Bear resistance is quite strong, but Eagle gives disadvantage on opportunity attacks against you + dash as a bonus action and Wolf gives your friends advantage on melee attack rolls on any creatures within 5 feet of you. What you propose for Drake is scalable breath + elemental damage to enemies makes a melee attack against you. This is way overboard. I'd say the later part would be comparable to the other abilities. Breath alone would be on par, if not slightly better, with Bear and definately better than Eagle and Wolf

Don't forget that Path of the totem let you choose between each animal each time you get new ability. You're Drake 3rd level ability would definitely be a must have for Barbarian who wants to deal a lot of damage.

That's why I moved it to 14th level, maybe the End rage + exhaustion is a bit harsh, but if you check other 14th level abilities they are not that strong either.

I'm with you with adding advantage on Intimidation check at 6th would be in line with other abilities.

I'd be fine with lowering the damage on both aspects of the 3rd level ability. Maybe removing the scale on the breath weapon and changing the elemental damage to static damage instead of ability mod. The scale was to make it viable at higher levels, but admittedly I don't have experience with higher level play to know what's appropriate yet.

DanyBallon
2015-04-15, 02:19 PM
I'd be fine with lowering the damage on both aspects of the 3rd level ability. Maybe removing the scale on the breath weapon and changing the elemental damage to static damage instead of ability mod. The scale was to make it viable at higher levels, but admittedly I don't have experience with higher level play to know what's appropriate yet.

Scaling damage will definately let you keep up at higher level, it's just that it's too strong for the 3rd level ability. Especially if you keep some form of damage against anyone who attacks you in melee. All by itself the last part is really strong, because as a Barbarian you'll spend much time in melee and will get attacked alot. It's even better than resistance to almost everything the Bear totem have. Limiting the damage to successful hits on you in melee, will bring it on par with the Bear ability.

Otherwise if you really wants the breath at 3rd, keep the scaling effect and get add an exhaustion level at the end of rage. It will still be strong, but at least the penalty will offset this (as for the Berserker Frenzy)

DiscipleofBob
2015-04-15, 02:32 PM
Scaling damage will definately let you keep up at higher level, it's just that it's too strong for the 3rd level ability. Especially if you keep some form of damage against anyone who attacks you in melee. All by itself the last part is really strong, because as a Barbarian you'll spend much time in melee and will get attacked alot. It's even better than resistance to almost everything the Bear totem have. Limiting the damage to successful hits on you in melee, will bring it on par with the Bear ability.

Otherwise if you really wants the breath at 3rd, keep the scaling effect and get add an exhaustion level at the end of rage. It will still be strong, but at least the penalty will offset this (as for the Berserker Frenzy)

You bring up a good point in limiting it to successful hits. I think limiting the damage to a static number would be more balanced than an ability mod as well. Say, 2 elemental damage at 3rd level, 3 at 6th, and 4 at 14th?

DanyBallon
2015-04-15, 02:43 PM
You bring up a good point in limiting it to successful hits. I think limiting the damage to a static number would be more balanced than an ability mod as well. Say, 2 elemental damage at 3rd level, 3 at 6th, and 4 at 14th?

Having the damage tied to your ability score is fine by me, as long as this ability is stand alone :smallsmile:

DiscipleofBob
2015-04-15, 06:40 PM
Having the damage tied to your ability score is fine by me, as long as this ability is stand alone :smallsmile:

Well, I still think having some kind of Dragon Breath at 3rd level is important for the flavor. Waiting until 14th level for what the subclass was originally designed around isn't fun for anyone. It's worth noting that the Dragon Breath is behind the Dragonborn racial trait in terms of damage scale.

Made some edits as discussed.

DanyBallon
2015-04-15, 07:18 PM
Well, I still think having some kind of Dragon Breath at 3rd level is important for the flavor. Waiting until 14th level for what the subclass was originally designed around isn't fun for anyone. It's worth noting that the Dragon Breath is behind the Dragonborn racial trait in terms of damage scale.

Made some edits as discussed.

I agree with you, your dragon breath is weaker than the one from Dragonborn, but the distinction here is that your ability should compare to other totem ability. The Dragonborn breath is balance within the race, with its others abilities and compare to others races and their respective abilities.
Like I said, you can have the breath weapon at 3rd level, with scaling damage and all, just put some limitation on it. The additional damage that the breath gives you is somewhat comparable to the Frenzy of the Path of the Berserker, which is also a 3rd level ability, it then makes sense to have similar drawback. You could also go with the following progression; 6th level: 3d6, 10th level: 4d6, and 14th level: 4d6 & no more exhaustion.

Then you could move the defensive elemental damage to 14th level, it would compare well to other totem abilities of that level.