Pathfinder ninja optimization

[Shadowscale]

I was thinking of building a ninja for the next campaign in playing in if I were to take these sort of tricks how would I go about building and optimizing also what would be good feats and rogue talents?
Acrobatic master
Fast stealth
Feather fall
High jumper
Vanishing trick

Evasion
Unbound steps
Kawarimi
Shadow split
Ghost step

These are the 10 I came up with if any seem like they don't have synergy I'm open to suggestions I just don't know how I'd build this well any and all help would be appreciated for synergizibg feats, gear, advice, etc

[Kurald Galain]

Well...

Vanishing Trick is the main reason to play a ninja, so I suggest taking that as soon as possible.
Acro master is only situationally useful, just carry a potion of Expeditious Retreat instead.
Fast stealth is nice but some races can do that for free and it really depends on the party whether you'll see any use for it.
Feather fall is an emergency measure that can save your life.
High jumper sucks.

I don't recommend taking 10+ levels in ninja (and most campaigns don't get to level 10 anyway) so I don't see much of a point to think about master tricks. That said, kawarimi sucks because it's 1/day only, unbound steps sucks because you can have actual flight several levels earlier, shadow split is hilarious but would only be useful if you get it about eight levels earlier, evasion is good but easily obtained with a dip somewhere, and ghost step is actually very nice.

Decent dips for a ninja include cleric (using a channel focus item to turn your channel energy into ki points), monk/brawler (flurry + sneak attack = win), and wizard (so you can go arcane trickster). Also, any ninja should look into taking a bunch of monk vows in order to get more ki points.

HTH!

[Shadowscale]

Well...

Vanishing Trick is the main reason to play a ninja, so I suggest taking that as soon as possible.
Acro master is only situationally useful, just carry a potion of Expeditious Retreat instead.
Fast stealth is nice but some races can do that for free and it really depends on the party whether you'll see any use for it.
Feather fall is an emergency measure that can save your life.
High jumper sucks.

I don't recommend taking 10+ levels in ninja (and most campaigns don't get to level 10 anyway) so I don't see much of a point to think about master tricks. That said, kawarimi sucks because it's 1/day only, unbound steps sucks because you can have actual flight several levels earlier, shadow split is hilarious but would only be useful if you get it about eight levels earlier, evasion is good but easily obtained with a dip somewhere, and ghost step is actually very nice.

Decent dips for a ninja include cleric (using a channel focus item to turn your channel energy into ki points), monk/brawler (flurry + sneak attack = win), and wizard (so you can go arcane trickster). Also, any ninja should look into taking a bunch of monk vows in order to get more ki points.

HTH!

My games all go to 20th level mythic tier 10... This particular game I think is 17th level... Tier 5

[Hunter Noventa]

My games all go to 20th level mythic tier 10... This particular game I think is 17th level... Tier 5

Get yourself a Legendary item with Undetectable. Whenever you vanish, NOTHING can find you. I did this while playing a Sylph with the two feats that let you fly naturally, it caused our DM no end of grief when I'd just vanish, float up to something, and murder it completely while it couldn't find me.

[Shadowscale]

Get yourself a Legendary item with Undetectable. Whenever you vanish, NOTHING can find you. I did this while playing a Sylph with the two feats that let you fly naturally, it caused our DM no end of grief when I'd just vanish, float up to something, and murder it completely while it couldn't find me.

That sounds like a good idea, anyone else have ideas to optimize the ninja? Like if my tricks are bad let me know, if I should be taking certain rogue talents let me know same with what feats I should be taking.

[Psyren]

I suggest a Double-Chained Kama. It's a double-weapon with reach, but unlike most double weapons it is treated as light/light when you TWF with it, allowing for finesse. You can also switch from melee to ranged and back again as free actions with Quick Draw - drop one kama, swift action Flurry of Stars, throw shuriken full-attack +2 with free hand, yank chain to recover kama, end turn. Consider also grabbing the Scout Archetype which will let you sneak attack just by charging.

Feather Fall is helpful for low levels but once you can fly, you should retrain it to something better. If you can't retrain, consider skipping it - most of the time you can just use Acrobatics and maybe a healing potion to make falls safer.

Acrobatic Master is very useful at all levels, and helps you with falls (see above.) Drop High Jumper - Acrobatic Master can help you with that anyway.

Other good tricks are Forgotten Trick (to grab the odd, situational ninja trick), Shadow Clone (helps you stay in melee safely to flank foes and rack up big damage), and Flurry of Stars (potentially 5 attacks at 1st level and it only goes up from there.)

Vanishing Trick is good but you shouldn't underestimate mundane stealth as well - when optimized it is harder to defeat than invisibility. For this you will want to pick up Dampen Presence (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dampen-presence) (PF Darkstalker) and Hellcat Stealth (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/hellcat-stealth) for HiPS anywhere.

Finally, if there are traps, see if your GM will let you take the Trap Finder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/mummy-s-mask/trap-finder) trait.

An easy source of "greater invisibility" for sneak attack damage early on is smoke/fog. Ifrits (which have great ninja stats) have a racial that lets them see through smoke, allowing you to attack foes flat-footed because you can see them but they can't see you. Other races can pick up a Goz Mask or Fogcutting Lenses.



I don't recommend taking 10+ levels in ninja (and most campaigns don't get to level 10 anyway) so I don't see much of a point to think about master tricks.

Wait, why not? Ninja is great 1-20, a solid T3. Good in combat, good outside of it.

[Kurald Galain]

Wait, why not? Ninja is great 1-20, a solid T3. Good in combat, good outside of it.

Really? I haven't seen any ninja at high level, but most tier discussions appear to place it as a low T4 or sometimes T5. Isn't one of the main points of the new Unchained book that rogues, ninjas, and monks are too weak and need help?

Anyway, I wouldn't personally play a ninja/20 because the class just gains too much from a dip or two. I'd be interested in swashbuckler (for riposte), or barbarian (for rage), or cleric (for more ki points and some domain features), or even magus (so I can supplement vanishing trick with vanish spells, and gain TWF more-or-less for free). Once you've picked the best ninja tricks (and there aren't too many of those) there's not much reason not to multiclass.

[Psyren]

Really? I haven't seen any ninja at high level, but most tier discussions appear to place it as a low T4 or sometimes T5. Isn't one of the main points of the new Unchained book that rogues, ninjas, and monks are too weak and need help?

No, you're confusing rogue and ninja. Rogue is weak, but Ninja's tricks/ki powers make them much more potent both in combat and out of it. For example, sneaking around is a lot easier if you can turn invisible (and better still, do so silently, since it is Su.) And when you can get +20 to Acrobatics, tumbling to a flanking position is child's play, and mirror image/greater invis helps you stay there without getting creamed. In other words, you can get in melee and stay there, racking up big SA numbers. Or you can hang back and throw shuriken while unseen, racking up big SA numbers.


Anyway, I wouldn't personally play a ninja/20 because the class just gains too much from a dip or two. I'd be interested in swashbuckler (for riposte), or barbarian (for rage), or cleric (for more ki points and some domain features), or even magus (so I can supplement vanishing trick with vanish spells, and gain TWF more-or-less for free). Once you've picked the best ninja tricks (and there aren't too many of those) there's not much reason not to multiclass.

The Master Tricks are definitely worth sticking around for. Invisible Blade, any bonus feat, Ghost Step, any Advanced Talent (Skill Mastery is good here), Blinding Bomb (fort save vs. blind to all creatures within 15ft of your target, and the DC scales) and Evasion. That should cover all of your slots, plus you can grab any regular trick you don't have yet too.

[(Un)Inspired]

I'd like to second Psyren's Forgotten Trick suggestion. Versatility is the name of the game when it comes to having a character that can meaningfully contribute to a party.