Incantatrix/Wizard help?

[Jarmen4u]

Hey all,

The title may give a bad impression, so I apologize for being a munchkin or whatever.

Anyway, hey giantitp. I am playing a Wizard/Incantatrix in a new campaign I'm playing, but I've never played an arcane caster in 3.5 before.

I'm having a hard time choosing specific MM feats, or even the best spells in general. I'm going for a mostly buff/control/debuff wiz, in that order. I started with a Domain Wizard, but the DM (for some reason) bans familiars, so he decided to just give me a second domain instead. So I have both Trans and Conj domains. We just hit level 6, so I took my first level in Incantatrix.

As of now, my feats are: Extend Spell, Maximize Spell, Arcane Thesis, Sculpt Spell, and Easy Metamagic. At 9th level, I'm planning to take Miser with Magic, but beyond that, I'm pretty lost.
Also, could someone recommend me some relevant 3rd or 4th level spells for me to look into when I level up? I have a few good ones (I hope), but I often find myself overlooking the true gems.

Thanks a lot!

[atemu1234]

Persist Spell?

[Ellowryn]

If you haven't looked through it already i would suggest checking out Logic Ninja's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?104002-3-5e-The-Logic-Ninja-s-Guide-to-Wizards-Being-Batman) guide as you do seem to be leaning towards a batman wizard role. Even if it is not exactly your thing it has a good breakdown of the best spells a wizard can get along with tips and tricks for feats, PrC's, equipment, etc.

On another note though, clerics and bards make slightly better buffers than wizards but its small enough that it shouldn't really matter outside of heavy optimization.

[Jarmen4u]

Persist Spell?

Well at the moment, I don't have access to 6th/7th level spell slots for me to be able to apply that to any spells I have.

And no, I unfortunately don't have access to MM rods yet. :smallfrown:

[atemu1234]

Well at the moment, I don't have access to 6th/7th level spell slots for me to be able to apply that to any spells I have.

And no, I unfortunately don't have access to MM rods yet. :smallfrown:

But you have an incantatrix.

[Jarmen4u]

But you have an incantatrix.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. Like I said, I AM still learning about this class, and casting in general.

When I say I don't have access, I mean there is no reasonable place in the current point of our adventure where I can procure one.

[Ellowryn]

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. Like I said, I AM still learning about this class, and casting in general.

When I say I don't have access, I mean there is no reasonable place in the current point of our adventure where I can procure one.

Hrm, well then try this Incantrix Hanbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?223438-3-5-Incantatrix-Handbook-%28WIP%29), looks decent, should have what you need.

For a short description, Incantrix is a (mostly) broken caster class that allows you to add metamagic effects to existing spells with a Spellcraft Check. As you seem to have guessed it is best used for buffing yourself and your allies at the beginning of the day with persistant spell and reach/chain spell. The reason this is so broken is that its entry requirements are stupidly easy, you do not lose any caster levels, and skills are dirt cheap to buff with custom magic items.

[Hiro Quester]

If one of your roles is buffing, you might consider a few levels of War Weaver in your build. It enables you to precast a few buff spells into your weave, and release them as a move action in your first round. In the first round, your whole party is suddenly flying, invisible, hasted and stoneskinned.

But yeah, Persist spell. Especially once you get the class feature an incantatrix gets (at third level?) that lets you add metamagic with a spellcraft check instead of increasing the spell level? this Incantatrix guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?223438-3-5-Incantatrix-Handbook-(WIP)) will be useful to you

[Jarmen4u]

If one of your roles is buffing, you might consider a few levels of War Weaver in your build. It enables you to precast a few buff spells into your weave, and release them as a move action in your first round. In the first round, your whole party is suddenly flying, invisible, hasted and stoneskinned.

But yeah, Persist spell. Especially once you get the class feature an incantatrix gets (at third level?) that lets you add metamagic with a spellcraft check instead of increasing the spell level? this Incantatrix guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?223438-3-5-Incantatrix-Handbook-(WIP)) will be useful to you

War Weaver, hm? I'll definitely check that out. Sounds a lot like something I was actually looking for. I appreciate it!

Also, as an aside/derail, what are some of the best ways to boost my Spellcraft check? As of right now, I have a +17 (+6 Int, 9 ranks, and +2 bonus), but it seems like I'd need a lot more than that to apply MM of more than +2 or +3.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You can use Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic to add metamagic feats to your spells without taking a higher level spell slot. It takes a Spellcraft check to succeed, you can take ten on the check, and there are plenty of ways to boost a skill check. You can use Cooperative Metamagic on your own spells outside of combat since the action economy system only exists during initiative. With a high enough Spellcraft skill you can add Persistent Spell to the highest level spells you can cast.

Just be sure you're using the 3.5 version of Incantatrix from Player's Guide to Faerun, not the 3.0 version from Magic of Faerun that's available on the Wizards website.

[Hiro Quester]

War Weaver, hm? I'll definitely check that out. Sounds a lot like something I was actually looking for. I appreciate it!

Also, as an aside/derail, what are some of the best ways to boost my Spellcraft check? As of right now, I have a +17 (+6 Int, 9 ranks, and +2 bonus), but it seems like I'd need a lot more than that to apply MM of more than +2 or +3.

You're welcome.

For the Spellcraft boosters check out the incantatrix guides. there are many items, feats, and other tricks to boost it really high.

A common (but slightly cheesy) way to increase spellcraft is an item familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm). They have many useful features, but the relevant one is "invest skill ranks": for every three skill ranks you invest (you still use them like normal, but they reside in your item familiar), you get +1 to a skill of your choice. This makes it possible to have more than your max ranks in a skill (up to double).

The downside is that if you lose the item you lose the skill points invested in it. The cheese is that this is supposed to be a vulnerability that balances out the extra skill points. But you basically make it so your DM would be totally screwing over your character to remove it from you. So the vulnerability is one rarely exercised.

[Lerondiel]

War Weaver, hm? I'll definitely check that out. Sounds a lot like something I was actually looking for. I appreciate it!

Also, as an aside/derail, what are some of the best ways to boost my Spellcraft check? As of right now, I have a +17 (+6 Int, 9 ranks, and +2 bonus), but it seems like I'd need a lot more than that to apply MM of more than +2 or +3.

Did you get a regional feat at character creation? Spellwise feat would give your Spellcraft another +2

[Sith_Happens]

I started with a Domain Wizard, but the DM (for some reason) bans familiars, so he decided to just give me a second domain instead. So I have both Trans and Conj domains.

Do you actually have a second set of domain slots from that, or is it like on a cleric where you have to choose which domain spell to prepare? Because the former is so much better than a familiar (the latter at least to me is a toss-up).


As of now, my feats are: Extend Spell, Maximize Spell, Arcane Thesis, Sculpt Spell, and Easy Metamagic. At 9th level, I'm planning to take Miser with Magic, but beyond that, I'm pretty lost.

Pretty good so far. What's your Arcane Thesis spell?


War Weaver, hm? I'll definitely check that out. Sounds a lot like something I was actually looking for. I appreciate it!

The one thing that's a pain about War Weaver is that everyone in your weave has to be in range of the spell at the time you cast it and almost all of the best buffs are touch range (until you hit the last level of War Weaver). Back when I played one the DM ruled that Deliver Touch Spells is compatible with Eldritch Tapestry such that I could hit as many people as my familiar could reach in a double move, but since you don't have a familiar that's off the table. Your best bet instead is to get in the habit of casting Spectral Hand whenever you think there's going to be combat soon; preferably you want a wand of it which you can hopefully convince the rest of the party to help pay for.


Also, as an aside/derail, what are some of the best ways to boost my Spellcraft check? As of right now, I have a +17 (+6 Int, 9 ranks, and +2 bonus), but it seems like I'd need a lot more than that to apply MM of more than +2 or +3.

WARNING: Check with your group and DM before taking Persist Spell with the intent to use it with Metamagic Effect. It's easily one of the most powerful things you can do in the game, especially if you get carried away and start casting ALL the buffs.

As for some advice in an as-yet-not-touched-on area, if your DM allows retraining you absolutely want to exchange your 5th level bonus feat for the Spontaneous Divination feature from Complete Champion, which does exactly what it sounds like (that being, it lets you spontaneously convert a prepared spell into any divination spell in your spellbook of the same level or lower).

[Douglas]

WARNING: Check with your group and DM before taking Persist Spell with the intent to use it with Metamagic Effect. It's easily one of the most powerful things you can do in the game, especially if you get carried away and start casting ALL the buffs.
For the curious, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?188138-Team-Solars-%28Archiving%29) is what casting (and persisting) "ALL the buffs" looks like.

[Jarmen4u]

Do you actually have a second set of domain slots from that, or is it like on a cleric where you have to choose which domain spell to prepare? Because the former is so much better than a familiar (the latter at least to me is a toss-up).

Second set of slots. Yeah, I'm surprised he bought it.


Pretty good so far. What's your Arcane Thesis spell?

As of right now, it's Kelgore's Fire Bolt as that is my only offensive spell and the DM has me on my own for many occasions. I will most likely get it retrained once I hit a point that I can use it properly. As a sidenote, I'm planning to take Miser with Magic 9th level.


The one thing that's a pain about War Weaver is that everyone in your weave has to be in range of the spell at the time you cast it and almost all of the best buffs are touch range (until you hit the last level of War Weaver). Back when I played one the DM ruled that Deliver Touch Spells is compatible with Eldritch Tapestry such that I could hit as many people as my familiar could reach in a double move, but since you don't have a familiar that's off the table. Your best bet instead is to get in the habit of casting Spectral Hand whenever you think there's going to be combat soon; preferably you want a wand of it which you can hopefully convince the rest of the party to help pay for.

Makes sense. Also as another sidenote (my mind wanders like crazy), as part of making the Craft (weaving) required for War Weaver more useful, I made it so my character will also have the ability to give Magical Tattoos. Depending on how high my ranks go, I may try to convince my DM to give me advanced homebrew tattoos with insane buffs.


WARNING: Check with your group and DM before taking Persist Spell with the intent to use it with Metamagic Effect. It's easily one of the most powerful things you can do in the game, especially if you get carried away and start casting ALL the buffs.
I honestly doubt he'd have any idea what I was talking about if I tried. I don't think he would think it was overpowered unless I asked him if he thought it was overpowered. Best to just let him find out firsthand :smallbiggrin:


As for some advice in an as-yet-not-touched-on area, if your DM allows retraining you absolutely want to exchange your 5th level bonus feat for the Spontaneous Divination feature from Complete Champion, which does exactly what it sounds like (that being, it lets you spontaneously convert a prepared spell into any divination spell in your spellbook of the same level or lower).
Are there any specific Divination spells that would prove invaluable? Just curious if you had something particular in mind, as I'm not too familiar with the Div spell list.

[Jarmen4u]

Did you get a regional feat at character creation? Spellwise feat would give your Spellcraft another +2

No, and I would have considered it if Flaws were allowed. But, as it is, I had to take the Otyugh Hole route to get a free Iron Will for my Incantatrix so I didn't waste a feat slot.