War Caster vs Resilient

[xroads]

Which do you think is better for my bard, Resilient (Con) or War Caster? I'm considering these two in order to decrease his odds of failing a concentration check.

Notes:

He is of the College of Valor.
His constitution score is 13. So a +1 is enough to increase his constitution modifier.
He has a 14 dexterity & strength. So he can wield weapons effectively enough to melee (and often does).

[Shining Wrath]

War Caster is designed for those who cast spells right in people's faces, which it seems your bard does do.

I vote for WC.

[SharkForce]

for college of valor, i'd take warcaster. not just for the advantage on concentration checks, but because you will likely literally have your hands full fairly often.

[Easy_Lee]

for college of valor, i'd take warcaster. not just for the advantage on concentration checks, but because you will likely literally have your hands full fairly often.

This is the deciding factor for me. If your hands are full, or if you use a two handed weapon and your DM will not let you take a hand off of it to cast a spell, then war caster is more useful. If you have a free hand and an odd CON score, common with warlocks, then resilient CON may be better.

Notably, the ability to cast a spell in place of an opportunity attack is quite useful, particularly at later levels.

[xroads]

Cool. Thanks all! :smallbiggrin:

[RulesJD]

Thematically - War Caster

Mechanically - Resiliency, by FAR**

** - This depends on what level your campaign is expected to reach and how often you will face concentration saves. If you are expecting level 9+, you should absolutely pick Res (Con) every time. By that point you will have +6 to Con saves, which means you'll be very likely to pass anything with 20 or less damage. If you have a Paladin within 10ft of you, you will auto-pass those saves. If you take Bless as one of your stolen spells (which you should because it is the best spell in the game), it gets even more likely to auto-pass the saves. War Caster leaves significant chance for failed concentration saves especially with only a +1 bonus.

The even more important reason is that Res (Con) helps with ALL Constitution saves, NOT just concentration. At higher levels, failing a con save can be devastating to your character. Having an extra +4/+5 to your save is huge, not to mention the extra 10hp or so you will get from the +2 constitution rather than +1.

[SharkForce]

Thematically - War Caster

Mechanically - Resiliency, by FAR**

** - This depends on what level your campaign is expected to reach and how often you will face concentration saves. If you are expecting level 9+, you should absolutely pick Res (Con) every time. By that point you will have +6 to Con saves, which means you'll be very likely to pass anything with 20 or less damage. If you have a Paladin within 10ft of you, you will auto-pass those saves. If you take Bless as one of your stolen spells (which you should because it is the best spell in the game), it gets even more likely to auto-pass the saves. War Caster leaves significant chance for failed concentration saves especially with only a +1 bonus.

The even more important reason is that Res (Con) helps with ALL Constitution saves, NOT just concentration. At higher levels, failing a con save can be devastating to your character. Having an extra +4/+5 to your save is huge, not to mention the extra 10hp or so you will get from the +2 constitution rather than +1.

yes, but warcaster brings other things to the equation. for a lore bard that's gonna sit in back and just throw spells? yeah, resilient is better. you're not gonna get many opportunity attacks, you're probably not going to use a shield, and warcaster would only be covering concentration checks and does nothing for you if you get poisoned (other than possibly help you make the concentration check from the poison damage). for a valour bard on the front lines? you want warcaster (ideally, you'd want both, but sometimes that just isn't in the cards).

[JAL_1138]

Ditto to the post above.

Vhuman, Warcaster, maybe pass up an ASI to pick up Resilient.
Half-elf, tougher choice. Probably still (pass up an ASI to) grab Warcaster for VB.

Lore bard, half-elf or Vhuman--resilient, end of discussion. You're not going to be in melee enough to need the spell AoOs or the ability to cast with your hands full.

[RulesJD]

yes, but warcaster brings other things to the equation. for a lore bard that's gonna sit in back and just throw spells? yeah, resilient is better. you're not gonna get many opportunity attacks, you're probably not going to use a shield, and warcaster would only be covering concentration checks and does nothing for you if you get poisoned (other than possibly help you make the concentration check from the poison damage). for a valour bard on the front lines? you want warcaster (ideally, you'd want both, but sometimes that just isn't in the cards).

1. I've experienced a lot of DMs now, and none of ever denied the ability of a person to cast spells just because they are holding a weapon and a shield. That limitation is largely fluff, but your mileage may vary if you have an oddly strict DM. If they are that strict, however, I have some fun spells for you to take that will break the game by RAW and shut the DM down.

2. Getting OA is rare in a game where the DM controls monsters. I see maybe 1-2 OA across the whole party in a gaming session. An effect that triggers, at best, MAYBE once a session versus how many Con saves you'll be making at level 9+? Not even a competition.

However, at lower levels War Caster blows Res(Con) out of the water by a large margin due to the lack of Con saves and the ability to make Concentration saves at a much more reliable rate.

[diplomancer]

resilient, by itself, is better, but there is one more thing to consider. Bards save proficiencies suck. it's the only dex proficiency class that does not get evasion. It might be worth it to get warcaster for con saves and saving resilience for wis saves (since you can't, by RAW, get resilience twice... if your DM lets you, ignore this advice).

[xroads]

1. I've experienced a lot of DMs now, and none of ever denied the ability of a person to cast spells just because they are holding a weapon and a shield. That limitation is largely fluff, but your mileage may vary if you have an oddly strict DM. If they are that strict, however, I have some fun spells for you to take that will break the game by RAW and shut the DM down.

2. Getting OA is rare in a game where the DM controls monsters. I see maybe 1-2 OA across the whole party in a gaming session. An effect that triggers, at best, MAYBE once a session versus how many Con saves you'll be making at level 9+? Not even a competition.

Good points. None of my 5e DMs seem to remember or are aware of the rule (neither was I until recently). Though I wouldn't put it past them to "remember" two levels from now at a very inconvenient moment. :smalleek:

And DMs & players both do tend to play monsters very tactically, regardless of what would probably really happen in the heat of combat (can't cast stones here, my bard has an 8 for intelligence yet I play D&D like I play chess).




It might be worth it to get warcaster for con saves and saving resilience for wis saves (since you can't, by RAW, get resilience twice... if your DM lets you, ignore this advice).



I could of swore I read somewhere that you could pick the Resilient feat once for each stat. But I couldn't find it in the PHB when I looked it up.