Is there a demand for pre made adventures?

[Ramshack]

Hey playgrounders,

I'm debating putting together a possible business plan involving building pre-made adventures designed to be played using DnD 5e (and other versions) core books. Of course assuming I'm legal and not releasing any Copyrighted information in the book, so I can't include any published rules, monster stat blocks or lore or campaign settings. I'm discussing this with a lawyer now.

But all that aside, would there be a demand for relatively high quality single use campaign adventure arcs, dungeons and side quests. Adventures would be highly detailed, come with custom monster stat blocks and include maps of the adventure areas as well as adventure hooks and DM advice on how to run the adventure in a .pdf format. Adventures would be short enough to generally be completed in 4-6 hours for a standard 4 party group (with advice on how to alter the encounter for larger groups) Adventures would be stand alone modules that could easily be placed into existing campaigns. Most adventures would be for recommended party level of 1 - 10 to start.

I'd be selling these premade adventures online and probably release a new one every few weeks to start. The website I'd build would allow users to rate each adventure as well as have a forum to discuss their experiences playing them as well as tactics, complaints or wish lists for future adventure arcs.


So my question for you DMs out there is: Is this product something you'd be interested in? What kind of price point would you find acceptable, what information would you expect to be included with your purchase.

[SharkForce]

my understanding from what i've heard others say is that paizo makes more money from adventure paths than from rulebooks in pathfinder.

[Falcon X]

What Sharkforce said, good adventures can do surprisingly well. If you look at history, WotC is doing exactly what they need to be doing by focusing on adventures.

As a DM: Personally, I'm probably not going to shell out money for new adventures unless they official, or are 5e updates of old, established adventures. For example, right now I'm about to run Die Vecna Die, Ravenloft, Vecna Lives, and Rary the Traitor for 5e, but I have to do all the conversions myself which is hard. I would pay somebody to do it well.

Besides that, I really like unique things I can drag and drop into my games. Like Boss Battle manuals such as the fan-made, kickstarted, Worldbreakers from 4th edition: http://www.epicwords.com/attachments/3874.
Or a bunch of fully fleshed out dungeons. If I don't have to design my 5-layer descent into the core of a volcano for my lvl 15 party, I'd love it. (Oooh, variable level monster sets to customize to party level)

For Marketing: If it's third party, I'm going to want a sample to look at. Maybe give for free section 1 of a 8-section adventure. If I can tell the quality from that one section, I'll know the rest is worth about as much as a WotC adventure.

[Ramshack]

What Sharkforce said, good adventures can do surprisingly well. If you look at history, WotC is doing exactly what they need to be doing by focusing on adventures.

As a DM: Personally, I'm probably not going to shell out money for new adventures unless they official, or are 5e updates of old, established adventures. For example, right now I'm about to run Die Vecna Die, Ravenloft, Vecna Lives, and Rary the Traitor for 5e, but I have to do all the conversions myself which is hard. I would pay somebody to do it well.

Besides that, I really like unique things I can drag and drop into my games. Like Boss Battle manuals such as the fan-made, kickstarted, Worldbreakers from 4th edition: http://www.epicwords.com/attachments/3874.
Or a bunch of fully fleshed out dungeons. If I don't have to design my 5-layer descent into the core of a volcano for my lvl 15 party, I'd love it. (Oooh, variable level monster sets to customize to party level)

For Marketing: If it's third party, I'm going to want a sample to look at. Maybe give for free section 1 of a 8-section adventure. If I can tell the quality from that one section, I'll know the rest is worth about as much as a WotC adventure.

The epic worlds is comparable with the quality of .pdf I'd plan on producing. I was thinking 5 or 6 dollars to pull out a premade adventure. Need a lost tomb? Haunted Mansion? Fey Forrest, Lost dwarven mine, werewolf in the sewers etc etc.

[EvanescentHero]

I've never run a premade adventure or module (though I bought Princes of the Apocalypse and intend to run that sometime), but if the quality is high and the price is right, I have no doubt you could make a killing on dungeons and little modules like that. I don't think I've ever heard of someone doing small sections like that, so it's a very clever idea and I could see it doing well. Maybe you could take commissions or ideas as well!

[Alikat]

My groups DM refuses to use them. The main complaint I think was each one he's read were too railroady.

[DonEsteban]

Princes of the Apocalypse (D&D Accessory) Hardcover – April 7, 2015
[...]
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #434 in Books

I'd say yes, there certainly is, under the right circumstances! But the competition is stiff. Have a look at the Paizo site to see how to do many things right and then find something to improve on.


If I can tell the quality from that one section, I'll know the rest is worth about as much as a WotC adventure.
Funny. WotC wouldn't be my first choice for examples of well-written adventures. Not my second either. There have been but a handful of adventures from them in the last 15 years that I would consider worth buying.

[ruy343]

I recall looking on the Wizards forums a while back and discovering that, more than anything, they were most interested in one-shot submissions for their magazines. I was tempted to take up one-shot writing (which I'm actually rather good at) for cash, but I just never got around to it (I was DM-ing at the time, and I need all of my mental energy to run a campaign because I always make it up as I go).

However, I think that it would be a great idea to write miniature episodes that characters could walk through when the DM doesn't have time for preparation on a given day. Heaven knows that I could use something like that. I think the best strategy for that would be to create a bunch of appropriate one-shots for level 1-3 characters, and then make one for levels 4-5, etc. to reduce the need for scaling monsters.

If anything, it might catalyze the DM's creative juices to help them generate good full adventures with the one-shot as a start.

[Ramshack]

My groups DM refuses to use them. The main complaint I think was each one he's read were too railroady.

Well this wouldn't be a complete adventure module meant to lead the characters through an expanding plot. But instead small dungeon or side quest which can be woven into a DMs existing campaign and played over a session or two.

I know from my own experience DMing sometimes you lose track of time, or things happen and suddenly you don't have time to design an adventure for your group that night. So you'd be able to search for modules for your groups level and see if any of the side quests can be woven into your campaign world and for a small fee all your work is done for the evening. Just design the adventure hook to get your players to the starting point and your set.

I know I'd pay a few dollars instead of spending half a day designing the adventure for the night.

[WilsonUndead]

I think well made adventure modules could be something I'd buy, if they werent too much. One thing i would be interested in however, would be a lvl 1-20 campaign. Obviously more work but I had a hard time even finding any through google searches (are there any?). So now I'm writing my own. I might be the only one looking for that but maybe not?

[ad_hoc]

Well this wouldn't be a complete adventure module meant to lead the characters through an expanding plot. But instead small dungeon or side quest which can be woven into a DMs existing campaign and played over a session or two.

I know from my own experience DMing sometimes you lose track of time, or things happen and suddenly you don't have time to design an adventure for your group that night. So you'd be able to search for modules for your groups level and see if any of the side quests can be woven into your campaign world and for a small fee all your work is done for the evening. Just design the adventure hook to get your players to the starting point and your set.

I know I'd pay a few dollars instead of spending half a day designing the adventure for the night.

I am on board with the single or double session adventures.

I like that they included a bunch in PotA.

They have to be well made. Not just having accurate maps, encounter difficulty, and story consistency. They need to be more than just a map and a monster. There have to be interesting challenges. There have to be different levels of success and different outcomes to maintain player agency.

I have read too many of these mini adventures that are just a map and a monster.

*edit*

The second question about what needs to be included? The first one needs to be free. If I download the first one and like it I will buy the next one.

Beyond that a short synopsis of what the plot is, the appropriate levels, the themes and pacing. That sort of thing.

[JAL_1138]

I tend to buy them for the maps and the prebuilt encounters if I use them for nothing else, because I'm lazy that way, and it bugs me (and my near-terminal laziness) when I have to look up anything else from the monster stat block given in the adventure (paizo is bad about not giving things like attack damage in theirs, in contrast to the old TSR modules that had virtually the same statblock as the MM but with everything abbreviated to make it compact). Saves a ton of prep time, and they can be yoinked from the module and stuck elsewhere, or given entirely different reasons to be where they are, etc. So I probably wouldn't be in the market for these, sadly, without the stat blocks. Still, good maps and story seeds are always handy, regardless.

[Ramshack]

I tend to buy them for the maps and the prebuilt encounters if I use them for nothing else, because I'm lazy that way, and it bugs me (and my near-terminal laziness) when I have to look up anything else from the monster stat block given in the adventure (paizo is bad about not giving things like attack damage in theirs, in contrast to the old TSR modules that had virtually the same statblock as the MM but with everything abbreviated to make it compact). Saves a ton of prep time, and they can be yoinked from the module and stuck elsewhere, or given entirely different reasons to be where they are, etc. So I probably wouldn't be in the market for these, sadly, without the stat blocks. Still, good maps and story seeds are always handy, regardless.

Well to be compliant with copyright laws I couldn't reproduce stat blocks from previously released material. So generally I would be recreating monsters with slightly different stats. For instance that isn't a wolf but a blightwood wolf and then print new stats for it. But I understand your point and I can't imagine a situation where I wouldn't list complete stat blocks.

[Ramshack]

I am on board with the single or double session adventures.

I like that they included a bunch in PotA.

They have to be well made. Not just having accurate maps, encounter difficulty, and story consistency. They need to be more than just a map and a monster. There have to be interesting challenges. There have to be different levels of success and different outcomes to maintain player agency.

I have read too many of these mini adventures that are just a map and a monster.

*edit*

The second question about what needs to be included? The first one needs to be free. If I download the first one and like it I will buy the next one.

Beyond that a short synopsis of what the plot is, the appropriate levels, the themes and pacing. That sort of thing.

Great input thank you. I think the first module free would be a good idea.

[JAL_1138]

Well to be compliant with copyright laws I couldn't reproduce stat blocks from previously released material. So generally I would be recreating monsters with slightly different stats. For instance that isn't a wolf but a blightwood wolf and then print new stats for it. But I understand your point and I can't imagine a situation where I wouldn't list complete stat blocks.

New monsters with tweaked stats should probably get you around the lawyers. I tend not to touch IP law with a 10ft pole in my practice but from the extremely little I know of it that should work fine.

[critter3of4]

I second the notion of converting old adventures to 5e.

I won't be DMing anytime soon, but I plan on making a 200 mile trip to my brother's house just scavenge through my bro's old "DnD box."

[SharkForce]

I second the notion of converting old adventures to 5e.

I won't be DMing anytime soon, but I plan on making a 200 mile trip to my brother's house just scavenge through my bro's old "DnD box."

those old adventures are someone else's IP. can't just convert them unless you own them, so that's pretty much out, unless (s)he owns them somehow.

[critter3of4]

Oh well. Looks like I will have some homework to do.

[Person_Man]

Yes, but.

Yes, there are many people who want pre-made adventures and are willing to pay for them. This is particularly true if you have an popular setting that people want to play in.

But you personally are unlikely to sell very many of them, because the competition is very stiff, Hasbro owns most of the popular settings, and you personally don't have any established brand loyalty, and there isn't an OGL for this edition.

Yes, once in a while a company like Dreamscarred Press or Evil Hat strikes gold with a well timed product, or a writer with an established fan base leaves one of the major companies and succeeds on their own, and they can do quite well.

But in most cases, you end up spending hundreds of hours writing a product that sells only modestly, which means that you basically make less then minimum wage and would have been better off just getting a job as a technical writer (or editor, or in marketing, or whatever) and just doing your passion project on the side.

[MrStabby]

I think the solution may be to build up components. Build a setting and some encounters for the setting.

Pick an area or a plane or some theme - build a bigger story arc but first maybe a few locations, encounters, monsters etc. that fit into this. This then lets DMs incorporate these small components into their existing adventures or assemble the pieces into the plot their players chose to follow. By building all the bits of an environment rather than an "adventure" your work can be used without a railroading criticism.

The overall plot then still gives the theme, it still gives the reason why the antagonists are doing what they are doing and gives a framework that holds everything together.

I am not saying to not produce dungeons, but maybe keep them generic. So there is a map (beautiful and professional of course) but no set encounters but instead the rooms for which you recommend an encounter might have a code that is used. Say if the code was two part then the first part might relate to difficulty of encounter, the second part to the style - monstrous, intelligent, unique villain/character etc.. Then you can accompany this with something like encounter cards that give some varied options for different difficulty levels, different factions etc. and with that all in one place so the DM does not need to rummage around in other materials. This would mean that if the DM bought an encounter location but the players decided not to go there then it wouldn't be wasted - it would be able to be reused simply at a higher level.

The aim would be that you do a lot of the hard work and time consuming parts but leave the DM to tie it together and respond to the players wishes.

If you do build a setting I wouldn't skimp on material though. Follow the example of of elemental evil but try and make sure there is something a little bit fresh for everyone. A new weapon manoeuvre, a new caster feat, maybe a couple of new spells, a new weapon type, new race, maybe even a new class.

Anyway, just my idea of what would be likely to work better commercially; the views may also be a little personal so please don't go by mine alone. How you would market it would be another challenge.

This will be a lot of hard work (which is just as well as if it were easy everyone would do it and there would be no market for it).

Finally if you can I would suggest making the adventure available to be run on a tablet as well. Even coding it as a webpage with hyperlinks can save a lot of time (looking up stats, rules, monsters etc.) as well as providing an easy way to show pictures of what the players are facing.

[Jaqrabbit]

There was somebody on the forums recently who did this through Kickstarter.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?404386-Try-my-1st-level-adventure-dungeon-Bandit-s-Nest

I don't know how many hours you expect to dump into this or whether the return he got on the project (and will continue to earn through future sales) would be sufficient compensation for that effort, but it's certainly an approach you could try.

[Ramshack]

There was somebody on the forums recently who did this through Kickstarter.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?404386-Try-my-1st-level-adventure-dungeon-Bandit-s-Nest

I don't know how many hours you expect to dump into this or whether the return he got on the project (and will continue to earn through future sales) would be sufficient compensation for that effort, but it's certainly an approach you could try.

I had not thought about using Kick Starter to fund my project. Clearly their are start up costs and this could be a good way to recoup some of those costs initially.

However, that being said his campaign is for virtually the same business concept I had. Except I'd sell my products on my own page instead of through a third party like he used. However same singluar dungeon/adventure module concept, detailed maps, adventure hooks, custom creatures and magic items presented in a professional looking .pdf format.

I would imagine 15-25 hours worth of work per module would seem reasonable, selling each module for 5 dollars will result in something like 40-50 purchases per module to make minimum wage.

I don't believe this idea will ever make me rich, but hopefully assist me in generating some extra cash for doing something I genuinely enjoy already. And maybe bring some excitement to a few tables.