"Your 'Order' is meaningless..."

[tadkins]

"This world was forged from Chaos and by Chaos it shall one day end!"

What kind of character concept comes to mind when you hear these words? What kind of class build do you think would work for a character like this, who adheres to pure Chaos as a philosophy and wishes to wield Chaos as a weapon?

[Troacctid]

Cleric with the Chaos domain.

CN Incarnate would also work. Incarnates are often preachy about their alignment.

As far as prestige classes, Entropic Adept, Anarchic Initiate, and Chaotician would be good fits.

[Max Caysey]

"This world was forged from Chaos and by Chaos it shall one day end!"

What kind of character concept comes to mind when you hear these words? What kind of class build do you think would work for a character like this, who adheres to pure Chaos as a philosophy and wishes to wield Chaos as a weapon?

It might not fit... but I thought of warhammer. Warrors of chaos to be precise. Or some form of cleric from those ranks.

[Karl Aegis]

Illithid Savant. They know how the world ends. They were there.

[Seclora]

Doomlord Prestige Class from Planar Handbook, chaotic Pyrokineticists, Slaad Orator(must exist somewhere, right?), Wild Mages, Anarchists, or really charismatic chaotic stupid PCs.

All I'm really certain of is that I would derive great pleasure from stopping his plans, maiming his minions, and building highly elaborate, geometrically precise monuments to his defeat. His world will be integrated into My Order!

[daremetoidareyo]

I would love for this character concept to be a truenamer. A nihilist pothead truenamer. All those knowledge skills are pointless, he just doesn't give a damn about that, he likes learning things. This guy would view all knowledge, even individual words, as little bits of temporary order that we force into the universe, which would then eventually dissipate as the world returns to its primal state of chaos attempting to understand itself.

[Molosse]

An individual who has a very flimsy grasp on physical law.

[Janthkin]

Alienist. Nothing like insights into Azathoth to break down respect for silly, mutable things like customs, mores, and so-called natural laws.

[tadkins]

All I'm really certain of is that I would derive great pleasure from stopping his plans, maiming his minions, and building highly elaborate, geometrically precise monuments to his defeat. His world will be integrated into My Order!

"Strike me down then, if you can! Better to die free than live as a slave."

[Hiro Quester]

This guy as the personality. Chaotic Neutral. The build is incidental.

http://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/joker.jpg

[Seclora]

"Strike me down then, if you can! Better to die free than live as a slave."
Oh good, I was worried there might be some sort of misunderstanding as to how this was going to end. :smalltongue:

[Metahuman1]

An individual who has a very flimsy grasp on physical law.

Just an aside, is that avatar of yours a pixie riding a dragonfly?

[tadkins]

Oh good, I was worried there might be some sort of misunderstanding as to how this was going to end. :smalltongue:

hah xD

I'm thinking more along the lines of a character that would work as a PC. Nothing chaotic stupid, or someone with these grand plans to end the world or anything. Just someone who believes that Chaos is the triumphant philosophy. That Law only wins when those enforcing it have the strength to do so, and that it fails once that strength falters even a little bit. A character that fights with a bit of randomness and if they're a magic user, blasts people with chaotic shimmering rainbows. He or she would rein in their impulses just enough to work with a party and not be a detriment. Basically, PC material.

[Janthkin]

hah xD

I'm thinking more along the lines of a character that would work as a PC. Nothing chaotic stupid, or someone with these grand plans to end the world or anything. Just someone who believes that Chaos is the triumphant philosophy. That Law only wins when those enforcing it have the strength to do so, and that it fails once that strength falters even a little bit. A character that fights with a bit of randomness and if they're a magic user, blasts people with chaotic shimmering rainbows. He or she would rein in their impulses just enough to work with a party and not be a detriment. Basically, PC material.Sadly, you lost Alienist at "shimmery rainbows."

Beguiler/Shadowcraft Mage? It's hard to believe in order, when you can so easily counterfeit it with the stuff of nightmares. Or else just break out the Wild Mage, and enjoy the ride.

[Eloel]

Am I the only one who thinks of a very strict Lawful character when I hear the sentence? If the world'll end in chaos, why'd he try to be chaos or bring it in?

[tadkins]

Sadly, you lost Alienist at "shimmery rainbows."



I do love the Alienist class, though I figured Alienist was less about chaos and more about purple eagle printeraj34k34930raj90ja3r.

[Seclora]

hah xD

I'm thinking more along the lines of a character that would work as a PC. Nothing chaotic stupid, or someone with these grand plans to end the world or anything. Just someone who believes that Chaos is the triumphant philosophy. That Law only wins when those enforcing it have the strength to do so, and that it fails once that strength falters even a little bit. A character that fights with a bit of randomness and if they're a magic user, blasts people with chaotic shimmering rainbows. He or she would rein in their impulses just enough to work with a party and not be a detriment. Basically, PC material.

It's funny you should say that, because you've just described the campaign I'm in. I'm the Lawful sometimes-good party member and spend half my time trying to keep the rogue from killing the prisoners, the sorcerer from making a pact with Hell, and the Fighter from causing a political incident. I've done pretty well overall. Then, a couple weeks back, I had some budget left over while designing one of a weapon for one of the party members and thought 'Prismatic burst would be a good way to round things out'. Now Hades is on its way to being overrun by Supernatural Zombie Kythons with a variant of the Evolved Undead template.

Law slips up once and everything collapses. Chaos slips up and giggles at the pretty colors.

[Hypername]

Havik from mortal kombat. A cleric with the chaos domain. Could be a neutral evil or chaotic evil Oracle

[tadkins]

It's funny you should say that, because you've just described the campaign I'm in. I'm the Lawful sometimes-good party member and spend half my time trying to keep the rogue from killing the prisoners, the sorcerer from making a pact with Hell, and the Fighter from causing a political incident. I've done pretty well overall. Then, a couple weeks back, I had some budget left over while designing one of a weapon for one of the party members and thought 'Prismatic burst would be a good way to round things out'. Now Hades is on its way to being overrun by Supernatural Zombie Kythons with a variant of the Evolved Undead template.

Law slips up once and everything collapses. Chaos slips up and giggles at the pretty colors.

Good ol' Prismatic Spray! I'm thinking the character should just be an Iot7V. xD

But yep, Chaos can be fun without being annoying and/or stupid. There are also such things as the laws of Entropy that would make Chaos as natural as anything else.

[Hiro Quester]

Pure chaos is not evil. It is Chaotic Neutral. Evil has objectives and plans. Chaos is disruptive to good and evil plans.

Consider the Joker's Monologue in the Dark Knight:


Do I really look like a guy with a plan, Harvey?

I don’t have a plan …

The mob has plans. The cops have plans.

You know what I am, Harvey? I am a dog chasing cars… I wouldn’t know what to do with one if I caught it.

I just do things. I am just the wrench in the gears. I hate plans.

Yours, theirs, everyone’s. Maroni has plans. Gordon has plans.

Schemers trying to control their worlds.

I am not a schemer. I show the schemer how pathetic their attempts to control things really are.

So when I say that you and your girlfriend was nothing personal, you know I am telling the truth.

I just did what I do best. I took your plan and turned it on itself.

Look what I have done to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets.

Nobody panics when the expected people gets killed. Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying.

If I tell the press that tomorrow a gangbanger will get shot or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics. – because it’s all part of the plan.

But when I say that one little old mayor will die, everybody lose their minds.

Introduce a little anarchy, you upset the established order and everything becomes chaos.

I am agent of chaos.

And you know the thing about chaos Harvey?

“IT is FAIR.”

[KillingAScarab]

An individual who has a very flimsy grasp on physical law.
Carry the infinity... Aww, man. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2010/03/09/episode-1223-make-the-truth/)

[atemu1234]

Slaad lords. I once made a Slaad Wizard Demon Lord. It'd fit.

[Sith_Happens]

Then, a couple weeks back, I had some budget left over while designing one of a weapon for one of the party members and thought 'Prismatic burst would be a good way to round things out'. Now Hades is on its way to being overrun by Supernatural Zombie Kythons with a variant of the Evolved Undead template.

You're going to have to explain how that first sentence lead to the second.:smallconfused:

[Lerondiel]

Pure chaos is not evil. It is Chaotic Neutral. Evil has objectives and plans. Chaos is disruptive to good and evil plans.

Consider the Joker's Monologue in the Dark Knight:

Yup, that's CN. Brilliant Monologue...can still hear his voice :)

[Seclora]

You're going to have to explain how that first sentence lead to the second.:smallconfused:

Prismatic Spray, which Prismatic Burst causes on a crit, has the possible effect of sending things to a random plane. We were fighting the forementioned crazy monsters and got that result without also causing enough damage to kill the beastie. A good knowledge: the planes check and a little greater Scry revealed that he has not, in fact, been destroyed by the blood war, but has actually obtained enough XP to level multiple times since his arrival. He even killed a Planetar. It's bad.

[tadkins]

Prismatic Spray, which Prismatic Burst causes on a crit, has the possible effect of sending things to a random plane. We were fighting the forementioned crazy monsters and got that result without also causing enough damage to kill the beastie. A good knowledge: the planes check and a little greater Scry revealed that he has not, in fact, been destroyed by the blood war, but has actually obtained enough XP to level multiple times since his arrival. He even killed a Planetar. It's bad.

That's an awesome twist. A monster you'd normally have expected to kill already suddenly getting stronger and coming back for you.

[HolyDraconus]

This guy as the personality. Chaotic Neutral. The build is incidental.

http://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/joker.jpg
There's a monster that weaponizes The Deck of Many Things. Shame the Joker is known for Green and Purple, and not Red.

[Seclora]

That's an awesome twist. A monster you'd normally have expected to kill already suddenly getting stronger and coming back for you.

Nope. Can't leave Hades, doesn't want to, that's the total lack of joy that is Hades. It is however likely to totally shift the balance of power between Hell and the Abyss by nature of overrunning their current preferred battlefield in the blood war. I really doubt that'll happen in our mortal lifespan, but it adds this real impending doom element to the campaign to know that eventually that one stupid bullet is likely to destroy the planes.

[tadkins]

Nope. Can't leave Hades, doesn't want to, that's the total lack of joy that is Hades. It is however likely to totally shift the balance of power between Hell and the Abyss by nature of overrunning their current preferred battlefield in the blood war. I really doubt that'll happen in our mortal lifespan, but it adds this real impending doom element to the campaign to know that eventually that one stupid bullet is likely to destroy the planes.

Is it really a shift of power if it slaughtered both devils and demons though?

[OttoVonBigby]

No mention of Xaositect? If I remember the flavor of that PrC correctly, it's kind of right-on.

[Zaydos]

My mind goes straight to Doomguard. I'd grab some homebrew for it (doomsayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368342-Doomsayer-%283-5-Base-Class%29) for that doom prophet feel) or failing that go Warlock or Truenamer.

[tadkins]

Truenamer.

The flavor works so perfectly, but the class itself...ugh. Such a damn pity.

[Zaydos]

The flavor works so perfectly, but the class itself...ugh. Such a damn pity.

Someday I'm going to try and make my own truenamer fix... someday. Probably use (weaker) Invocations with the ability to increase their power with truename checks or some such.

[tadkins]

Someday I'm going to try and make my own truenamer fix... someday. Probably use (weaker) Invocations with the ability to increase their power with truename checks or some such.

That'd be pretty cool. Sort of a Warlock with more emphasis on skills.

[Seclora]

Is it really a shift of power if it slaughtered both devils and demons though?

Given the numerical advantage that Demons are considered to have, yes. The Devils cannot afford to lose their front line the way the Demons can. Replacing those numbers will require them to step up 'recruitment' figures considerably. That's good for mortal villains looking to acquire power, since it's now a sellers market, but bad for anyone trying to shift the balance of the material plane towards good, which we are.

[Sith_Happens]

Given the numerical advantage that Demons are considered to have, yes. The Devils cannot afford to lose their front line the way the Demons can. Replacing those numbers will require them to step up 'recruitment' figures considerably. That's good for mortal villains looking to acquire power, since it's now a sellers market, but bad for anyone trying to shift the balance of the material plane towards good, which we are.

The obvious solution is to introduce a monster of some kind to Hades that can and will kill the kython. If that monster then becomes a problem, simply repeat the process as necessary.:smalltongue:

[bekeleven]

Am I the only one who thinks of a very strict Lawful character when I hear the sentence? If the world'll end in chaos, why'd he try to be chaos or bring it in?

Nothing wrong with a fusion. One of my favorite character designs is of a character who logically decided to embrace chaos. I have the writeup somewhere.

Edit: Found the character sheet, here's an excerpt.
Some view chaos as the result of entropy getting sloshed and knocking up madness. Not so. To those that truly embrace it, chaos is the most predictable thing in the world.

Beings of law are beings of process. Beings of chaos are beings of results. Don't sweat the small stuff when you meet Nidawi: She's goal-oriented. That's it! That's the secret everyone wanted to know. Isn't life so much simpler?

Nidawi never got along very well with the other fey at court. Certainly she had no qualms about toying with mortals, least of all moral ones. But where's the gain?

Her friends at the palace tried to explain about the fun of it, which is how Nidawi decided to structure her process. She liked fun just as they did. If people overpowered and enslaved her people or herself, or otherwise overrode her agency, she would be unable to have fun. Therefore, gaining more power is the long-term route to amusement.

Nidawi is long-term. She's big-picture. But she's not lawful. If she were, she probably wouldn't have found herself assaulting evil wizards in pursuit of ultimate safety. But then, the safety was also just a stepping stone. Maybe the assault will be fun, too.

[Seclora]

Nothing wrong with a fusion. One of my favorite character designs is of a character who logically decided to embrace chaos. I have the writeup somewhere.

Edit: Found the character sheet, here's an excerpt.
Some view chaos as the result of entropy getting sloshed and knocking up madness. Not so. To those that truly embrace it, chaos is the most predictable thing in the world.

Beings of law are beings of process. Beings of chaos are beings of results. Don't sweat the small stuff when you meet Nidawi: She's goal-oriented. That's it! That's the secret everyone wanted to know. Isn't life so much simpler?

Nidawi never got along very well with the other fey at court. Certainly she had no qualms about toying with mortals, least of all moral ones. But where's the gain?

Her friends at the palace tried to explain about the fun of it, which is how Nidawi decided to structure her process. She liked fun just as they did. If people overpowered and enslaved her people or herself, or otherwise overrode her agency, she would be unable to have fun. Therefore, gaining more power is the long-term route to amusement.

Nidawi is long-term. She's big-picture. But she's not lawful. If she were, she probably wouldn't have found herself assaulting evil wizards in pursuit of ultimate safety. But then, the safety was also just a stepping stone. Maybe the assault will be fun, too.
Nothing is more terrifying than a truly chaotic individual with a goal. All you know is that they intend to reach point B, but even they don't know what they'll do to get there.