CR for a newbie DM

[ZenBear]

So at a glance over the CR table in the DMG it appears that a party of 5 level 1 characters can only take on 3 goblins before reaching the Hard and above difficulty levels. This seems absolutely absurd to me, especially after playing Mines of Phandelver where the first quest is clearing out a den of about a dozen gobos, a few wolves and a bugbear. I'm planning my first ever attempt at DMing and I find encounter building to be the most daunting task (I hate math). What can I expect to be able to throw at my players without risk of meaningless deaths?

[Safety Sword]

So at a glance over the CR table in the DMG it appears that a party of 5 level 1 characters can only take on 3 goblins before reaching the Hard and above difficulty levels. This seems absolutely absurd to me, especially after playing Mines of Phandelver where the first quest is clearing out a den of about a dozen gobos, a few wolves and a bugbear. I'm planning my first ever attempt at DMing and I find encounter building to be the most daunting task (I hate math). What can I expect to be able to throw at my players without risk of meaningless deaths?

Level 1 is a bit of a crap shoot because most enemies have damage ranges that can get most players to zero hit points in about 2 hits.

I hate Level 1 for this reason. At Level 2 the games starts being a bit more reasonable to DM because players can actually take a hit and decide to heal or not.

You'll find that the randomness of the dice governs Level 1 game play. Honestly, for a Level 1 party, 3 goblins could be a hard fight, or it could be all over before the goblins get their turn in the initiative order...

[ZenBear]

What if I use the average damage they put in parentheses next to the die value? To Hit is still random, but does predictable damage even things out some?

[aspekt]

All I could think was: Why are they trying to determine xp for killing their DM?

[JAL_1138]

All I could think was: Why are they trying to determine xp for killing their DM?

Head over to the "Bad DM Trends" or "Worst DMs Ever" threads on the general Roleplaying board and it starts to seem like a good question... [/kidding]

[Shining Wrath]

All I could think was: Why are they trying to determine xp for killing their DM?

Don't tell me you've never thought about it.

[Safety Sword]

What if I use the average damage they put in parentheses next to the die value? To Hit is still random, but does predictable damage even things out some?

It does smooth the damage spikes out, but the issues largely still remains. Characters are just too fragile to take on multiple enemies at Level 1. You're better off with fewer enemies so the characters have more actions than the bad guys (action economy advantage... don't say advantage, that's a game thing now... ).

I still find that I have to use my DM Superpowers to get characters to survive real encounters at Level 1. Of course, no one would ever know.

[JAL_1138]

I still find that I have to use my DM Superpowers to get characters to survive real encounters at Level 1. Of course, no one would ever know.

Back in my day, dagnabbit, if we died in one round to a housecat,or a barnyard goat, or a sufficient number of squirrels, we just died! And we died like flies! And we THAC0'd and we liked it! If we wanted to live through an encounter, it was fifteen miles, in the snow, uphill both ways! Dadgum whippersnappers...git off my lawn!

[MadBear]

snip

just stopped by to point out that you're like my opposite. Since I'm Mad though, I guess that makes me the evil twin. :smallbiggrin:

[Safety Sword]

Back in my day, dagnabbit, if we died in one round to a housecat,or a barnyard goat, or a sufficient number of squirrels, we just died! And we died like flies! And we THAC0'd and we liked it! If we wanted to live through an encounter, it was fifteen miles, in the snow, uphill both ways! Dadgum whippersnappers...git off my lawn!

Hey man, I played when a Wizard had 1d4 hit points and you died at zero. That was real D&D! Not this fandangled 3 failed death save rubbish.

And you can save vs Rod, Staff and Wand if you don't like it or I'll Bend Bars/Lift Gates you with my 18/97 Strength Score

[INDYSTAR188]

Is using the multiplier for multiple enemies essential for fair encounters? It also seems that you need to try and use enemies of lower CR if you want to challenge your PCs with more than one (as in a single Centaur is an appropriate challenge for four level 2 PCs), is this correct?

[JAL_1138]

Hey man, I played when a Wizard had 1d4 hit points and you died at zero. That was real D&D! Not this fandangled 3 failed death save rubbish.

And you can save vs Rod, Staff and Wand if you don't like it or I'll Bend Bars/Lift Gates you with my 18/97 Strength Score

And not only did they have 1d4, but we rolled at first level, and only the Warrior group could get the full benefit of a high CON roll! You could easily end up with 1HP! And wizards took longer to level up than anybody else! And we got one spell per day, and there were no cantrips but the first level spell called "cantrip"...!

[Safety Sword]

And not only did they have 1d4, but we rolled at first level, and only the Warrior group could get the full benefit of a high CON roll! You could easily end up with 1HP! And wizards took longer to level up than anybody else! And we got one spell per day, and there were no cantrips but the first level spell called "cantrip"...!

Ahhhh... The days where having an AC of -2 was a good thing.

And none of this dwarf wizard rubbish, everyone knows that only humans, elves and half-elves should be wizards. Oh, except gnomes, they can be illusionists, but that's a separate class to wizard, of course.

We should go to a tavern and talk about the good old days. But everyone know that taverns are where adventures start, and I don't think I have enough hit points.

[Shining Wrath]

Is using the multiplier for multiple enemies essential for fair encounters? It also seems that you need to try and use enemies of lower CR if you want to challenge your PCs with more than one (as in a single Centaur is an appropriate challenge for four level 2 PCs), is this correct?

You absolutely must consider the multiplier given in the encounter builder tables. Multiple small creatures can be deadly.

The Internet is your friend, though; many fellow nerds exist, and some of them have written encounter difficulty calculators. Go forth and search, and may the algorithm be upon you.

[Safety Sword]

You absolutely must consider the multiplier given in the encounter builder tables. Multiple small creatures can be deadly.

The Internet is your friend, though; many fellow nerds exist, and some of them have written encounter difficulty calculators. Go forth and search, and may the algorithm be upon you.

It's not perfect, but it's close enough ;)

[goto124]

Head over to the "Bad DM Trends" or "Worst DMs Ever" threads on the general Roleplaying board and it starts to seem like a good question... [/kidding]

Talakeal's DM?

[JAL_1138]

Talakeal's DM?

Wasn't referring to any one in particular, and I'm terrible with names so I don't know which one that is.

[jkat718]

You absolutely must consider the multiplier given in the encounter builder tables. Multiple small creatures can be deadly.

The Internet is your friend, though; many fellow nerds exist, and some of them have written encounter difficulty calculators. Go forth and search, and may the algorithm be upon you.

If I may plug my own calculator (https://www.desmos.com/calculator/51rtsg9hes)... :smallbiggrin: Just pop open the "Party" and "Creatures" folders, drag the sliders, and watch the graph change. Raw XP is plotted on the X-axis, adjusted XP on the Y-axis. The thresholds are color coded.

The Kobold Club (http://kobold.club/fight/#/encounter-builder) app has a fantastic interface and also offers round-by-round battle management.

The ever-impressive donjon (http://donjon.bin.sh/5e/calc/enc_size.html) also offers a calculator which tells you how many creatures of a certain CR would present a given difficulty to a given party.