PDA

View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Balancing Races



redwizard007
2015-04-16, 12:03 AM
OK folks. Working on a pretty serious homebrew including a few humanoid PC options and I figured "Why not balance the races while I'm at it..." So after hours of beating my head against that wall I figured I'd ask for some constructive criticism of my rough draft. FYI, there is some Pathfinder theft going on in addition to straight 3.5 but I believe it has all been translated sufficiently for our purposes at this stage. This is not designed for power gamers but I'm still looking for possible exploitation, perennial favorites, theme consistency, lack of appeal, and over all balance.

HUMAN RACIAL TRAITS
 +2 to One Ability Score: Human characters get a +2 bonus to one ability score of their choice at creation to represent their varied nature.
 Medium: Humans are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
 Normal Speed: Humans have a base speed of 30 feet.
 Bonus Feat: Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.
 Skilled: Humans gain an additional skill rank at 1st level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.
 Languages: Humans begin play speaking Common. Humans with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
 Favored Class: Any. A multiclass human's highest class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).


DWARF RACIAL TRAITS
 +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma: Dwarves are both tough and wise, but also a it gruff.
 Medium: Dwarves are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Slow and Steady: Dwarves have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor
or encumbrance.
 Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and hobgoblin's can function just fine with no light at all.
 Defensive Training: Dwarves get a +4 dodge bonus to AC against monsters of the giant subtype.
 Greed: Dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus on Appraise skill checks made to determine the price
of goods that contain metals, gemstones or stone.
 Hardy: Dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, spells, and
spell-like abilities.
 Stability: Dwarves receive a +4 racial bonus when resisting a bull rush or trip attempt while standing on the ground.
 Stone cunning: Dwarves receive a +2 bonus on Perception checks to potentially notice unusual
stonework, such as traps and hidden doors located in stone walls or floors. They receive a
check to notice such features whenever they pass within 10 feet of them, whether or not they are
actively looking.
 Languages: Dwarves begin play speaking Common and Dwarven. Dwarves with high Intelligence
scores can choose from the following: Elvish, Goblin, Ogre, Orc, Celestial, Draconic and Terran.
 Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass dwarf's fighter class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).


Dwarves do NOT gain a bonus to attacks against specific foes.

Removed bonus vs. orcs/goblins.


HOBGOBLIN RACIAL TRAITS
 +2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity
 Goblin: Hobgoblins are creatures with the goblin type.
 Hobgoblin base land speed is 30 feet.
 Darkvision: Hobgoblins can see in the dark out to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and hobgoblin's can function just fine with no light at all.
 Stealthy: +4 racial bonus to Move Silently.
 Automatic Languages: Common and Goblin. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Ogre, Elf, Orc, and Infernal.
 Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass hobgoblin’s fighter class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).



Reduced LA by 1.


HALFLING RACIAL TRAITS
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, –2 Strength: Halflings are nimble and strong-willed, but their small stature makes them weaker than other races.
 Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters
Slow Speed: Halflings have a base speed of 20 feet.
Fearless: Halflings receive a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against fear. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by halfling luck.
Halfling Luck: Halflings receive a +1 racial bonus on all saving throws.
Keen Senses: Halflings receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception (Listen, Search, Spot) skill checks.
Sure-Footed: Halflings receive a +2 racial bonus on Balance and Climb skill checks.
Weapon Familiarity: Halflings gain a +1 bonus to attacks with thrown weapons.
Languages: Halflings have no language of their own and begin play speaking Common. Halflings with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
 Favored Class: Rogue. A multiclass halfling's rogue class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).


ELF RACIAL TRAITS
 +2 Charisma, –2 Constitution: Elves have a frail form but strong personalities.
 Medium: Elves are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
 Normal Speed: Elves have a base speed of 30 feet.
 Low-Light Vision: Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
 Elven Immunities: Elves commonly deal with fey and developed a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects.
 Keen Senses: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception (Listen, Search, Spot) skill checks.
 Languages: Elves begin play speaking Common and Elven. Elves with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Dwarven, Goblin, Orc, and Celestial.

High Elves have the following additional abilities...
 +2 Intelligence: Elven lords are renowned for their knowledge.
 Elven Magic: High Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance.
In addition, high elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft skill checks made to identify the properties of magic items.
 Knowledge of Ages: The elven nobles are deep wells of knowledge. High Elves gain a +2 racial bonus to all Knowledge skills. Likewise, all Knowledge skills are considered class skills.
 Bonus Languages: High elves with high Intelligence scores can add Celestial and Draconic to their list of bonus languages
 Favored Class: Wizard. A multiclass high elf's wizard class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).

Wood Elves have the following additional abilities...
 +2 Dexterity: Elves of the forest dance through the woods as soon as they can walk.
 Like a Deer: Wood elves treat naturally difficult woodland terrain as normal terrain.
 Familiar Glade: Wood elves gain a +2 racial bonus to Survival and an additional +2 when in woodlands.
 Bonus Languages: Wood elves with high Intelligence scores can add Druidic and Sylvan to their list of bonus languages.
 Favored Class: Ranger. A multiclass wood elf's ranger class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).


Elves are NOT immune to sleep. They sleep just like everyone else. They have no specific talent with any weapons (bows or otherwise.)

All elves are either High or Wood.


Dropped immunity to sleep.

Dropped weapon proficiencies.

Added Survival bonus.

Added Knowledge bonus.

Move through difficult terrain easily.

Broke into 2 castes.


HALF-ELF RACIAL TRAITS
+2 to One Ability Score: Half-elf characters get a +2 bonus to one ability score of their choice at creation to represent their varied nature.
Medium: Half-elves are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Half-elves have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Half-elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Keen Senses: Half-elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception (Listen, Search, Spot) skill checks.
Languages: Half-elves begin play speaking Common and Elven. Half-elves with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
 Favored Class: Any. A multiclass half-elf’s highest class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).



ORC RACIAL TRAITS
 +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma : Orcs are strong and tough but also dimwitted, slow and crude.
 Orc: Orcs are creatures with the orc subtype.
 Orc base land speed is 40 feet.
 Darkvision: Orcs can see in the dark out to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and orcs can function just fine with no light at all.
 Light Sensitivity: Orcs are dazzled (–1 penalty on attack rolls, Search checks, and Spot checks) in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Weapon Familiarity: Orcs gain a +1 bonus to attacks with any weapon wielded with two hands.
Savage Visage: Orcs have a +4 racial bonus to Intimidate checks and may use either their Strength or Charisma to make such a check. Orcs always receive Intimidate as a class skill.
 Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Ogre, Dwarven, Goblin Elven, and Abyssal.
 Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass orc’s barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).




Added con bonus.

Increased speed.

Added weapon familiarity.

Added intimidate bonus, linked to strength and made class skill.


HALF-ORC RACIAL TRAITS
 +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma : Half-orcs are strong and tough but coarse.
 Orc: Half-orcs are creatures with the orc subtype.
 Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs gain a +1 bonus to attacks with any weapon wielded with two hands.
 Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet.
 Darkvision: Half-orcs can see in the dark out to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and orcs can function just fine with no light at all.
 Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Ogre, Dwarven, Goblin Elven, Infernal and Abyssal.
 Favored Class: Any. A multiclass half-orc’s highest class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).




Added con bonus.

Dropped Int penalty.

Added weapon familiarity.

changed favored class.


GOBLIN RACIAL TRAITS
 -2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, –2 Charisma : Goblins are small and quick but easily dominated.
 Goblin: Goblins are creatures with the goblin subtype.
 Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
 Goblin base land speed is 30 feet.
 Darkvision: Goblins can see in the dark out to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and goblins can function just fine with no light at all.
 Goblins have a +4 racial bonus on Handle Animal, Hide, Move Silently and Ride checks.
 Immunities: Goblins are immune to all non-magical diseases and a +4 racial bonus to saves against poison.
 Automatic Languages: Common and Goblin. Bonus Languages: Ogre, Dwarven, Orc, Elven, Infernal and Abyssal.
 Favored Class: Rogue. A multiclass goblin’s rogue class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).




Increased Dex modifier.

Added several racial skills.

Added disease immunity.

Added bonus vs. poisons.


HALF-GOBLIN RACIAL TRAITS
 +2 Dexterity: Half-goblins are stronger than their goblin ancestors while retaining their agility. They are also far more confident.
 Goblin: Half-goblins are creatures with the goblin subtype.
 Goblin Blood: Half-goblins count as both humans and goblins for any effect related to race.
 Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
 Half-goblin base land speed is 30 feet.
 Darkvision: Half-goblins can see in the dark out to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-goblins can function just fine with no light at all.
 Healthy: Half-goblins have a +4 racial bonus to resist diseases and poisons.
 Automatic Languages: Common and Goblin. Bonus Languages: Ogre, Dwarven, Orc, Elven, Infernal and Abyssal.
 Favored Class: Any. A multiclass half-goblin’s highest class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).





Small creature with no strength penalty.

Goblin with no charisma penalty.

Added bonus vs. poison and disease.

Any favored class.


HALF-OGRE RACIAL TRAITS
 Half-ogres have a +1 Level Adjustment (+0 LA for Bard, Psion, Sorcerer and Wizard.)
 Giant: Half-ogres are treated as having the humanoid type and giant subtype (in spite of the lack of a giant subtype.)
 Ogre Blood: Half-ogres count as both humans and ogres for any effect related to race.
 +6 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma : Half-ogres are big, brawny creatures without a great deal of intelligence or couth.
 Large: As a Large creature, a half-ogre takes a -1 size penalty to Armor Class, a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, and a -4 size penalty on Hide checks, but he gains a +4 size bonus to grapple checks, he uses larger weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are double those of a Medium character. Large creatures fill a 10' block rather than 5' and have a 10' reach.
 Half-ogre base land speed is 30 feet.
 Darkvision: Half-ogres can see in the dark out to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-ogres can function just fine with no light at all.
 Natural Armor: Half-ogres have +2 natural armor due to their tough, thick skin.
 Automatic Languages: Common and Ogre. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Goblin, Orc, Infernal and Abyssal.
 Favored Class: Any. A multiclass half-ogre’s highest class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).



Reduced LA by 1, conditionally by 2.

Reduced natural armor.

Changed favored class.


OGRE RACIAL TRAITS
 Ogres have a +1 Level Adjustment (+0 LA for Bard, Cleric, Druid, Psion, Sorcerer and Wizard.)
 Racial Hit Dice: An ogre begins with four levels of giant, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1.
 Racial Skills: An ogre’s giant levels give it skill points equal to 7 × (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). It's class skills are Climb, Listen, and Spot.
 Racial Feats: An ogre’s giant levels give it two feats.
 Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An ogre is automatically proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields.
 Giant: Half-ogres are creatures with the giant type.
 +10 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, –4 Intelligence, –4 Wisdom, –4 Charisma : Ogres are big and tough but also dimwitted and unpleasant.
 Large: As a Large creature, an ogre takes a -1 size penalty to Armor Class, a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, and a -4 size penalty on Hide checks, but he gains a +4 size bonus to grapple checks, he uses larger weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are double those of a Medium character. Large creatures fill a 10' block rather than 5' and have a 10' reach.
 Ogre base land speed is 40 feet.
 Darkvision: Ogres can see in the dark out to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and ogres can function just fine with no light at all.
 Natural Armor: Ogres have +5 natural armor due to their tough, thick skin.
 Automatic Languages: Common and Ogre. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Goblin, Orc, Infernal and Abyssal.
 Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass ogre’s barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see XP for Multiclass Characters, Core Rulebook I, page 60).



Ogres are not designed to be a PC race. They are fleshed out as a background for half-ogres. HOWEVER, if played as a PC they should be started as level 4 giants + any class levels +1 Level Adjustment, (meaning a level 1 Ogre fighter is a level 6 character.)

redwizard007
2015-04-16, 12:12 AM
4/16/15 - added missing Favored Classes.

eleazzaar
2015-04-16, 06:33 AM
In my opinion the 3.5 races are pretty badly balanced, so a decent effort should produce something better.

You sometime mention a favored class, and sometimes not. Personally, I think the mechanic adds nothing good to the game, and can be removed, this might help balance out human superiority that comes with an extra feat and easier multi-classing.

redwizard007
2015-04-16, 11:20 AM
You sometime mention a favored class, and sometimes not...

Nice catch. Edited appropriately.

While I do see some merit to your second point, I do not intend to drop the favored class concept. At least not initially. It adds flavor, points new players down a natural path, and can be a very powerful tool to help balance races that I may play with further down the line (For example, in pathfinder half-elves get 2 favored classes and can pick both, that adds a sick amount of customizability.) If I feel that all the races come up to about the same par then I will happily reconsider.

MojoBojangles
2015-04-16, 02:02 PM
A valiant effort to change a quite unbalanced system for races. I agree with you, I've always felt there was an unbalance, and then when Pathfinder came out with their Race Points, it just became too glaringly obvious. I like what you've done so far. This is something that I've tried to embark upon too. Have a slew of google docs I'll have to share sometime. You've got all the basic races it seems, do you plan on doing any other ones?

andreichekov
2015-04-16, 02:11 PM
How about you give a small bonus for favoured class, rather making a penalty for not following it?

Like, having that class allows you to take racial substitution levels even if you aren't that race
so, a dwarf with favoured class of fighter could take the half elf fighter substitution levels.

MojoBojangles
2015-04-16, 02:15 PM
How about you give a small bonus for favoured class, rather making a penalty for not following it?

Like, having that class allows you to take racial substitution levels even if you aren't that race
so, a dwarf with favoured class of fighter could take the half elf fighter substitution levels.
Something along that line might work out. I've never been a fan of penalizing a player for choosing a class outside their "racial norm". So I much enjoy the way Pathfinder has done it. No penalties, only bonuses for picking a class. If you really want to keep the favored class, some sort of plus like then.

eleazzaar
2015-04-16, 03:25 PM
Something along that line might work out. I've never been a fan of penalizing a player for choosing a class outside their "racial norm".

As i see it, the PC is an extraordinary member of their race, not an average one.

redwizard007
2015-04-16, 04:39 PM
Have a slew of google docs I'll have to share sometime. You've got all the basic races it seems, do you plan on doing any other ones?

I'd love to see what you were working on.

Since this is world specific, I hadn't planned on expanding my list much. However, If we continue to get decent collaboration I am happy to add other races, or alternate builds of the same races, added to the mix as long as power level remains relatively constant.


How about you give a small bonus for favoured class, rather making a penalty for not following it?


Something along that line might work out. I've never been a fan of penalizing a player for choosing a class outside their "racial norm". So I much enjoy the way Pathfinder has done it. No penalties, only bonuses for picking a class. If you really want to keep the favored class, some sort of plus like then.

So rather than favored class we consider what? Racial bonuses to favored class skills (or expanded skill lists), additional feats, ability modifiers, substitution levels... Brainstorm with me...


Like, having that class allows you to take racial substitution levels even if you aren't that race
so, a dwarf with favoured class of fighter could take the half elf fighter substitution levels.

That is a little further outside the box than I am comfortable going, but I like the idea of racial substitution levels being a bigger factor.


I think I'm leaning towards a small tree of racial substitution levels, expanding options to multiple classes that fit culturally but not mixing between different races...



As i see it, the PC is an extraordinary member of their race, not an average one.

Well yeah, thats why they use better base stat arrays or roll better than an unmodified 3d6, or are you suggesting we give benefits for playing against racial stereotypes? That could be wild but its not really the direction I want to take this.

redwizard007
2015-04-18, 06:03 PM
Wish I has found this site earlier. While not perfect for my purposes, this is darn close to what I'm going for.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races

Thank you Paizo.

Andion Isurand
2015-04-18, 06:49 PM
I would increase the orc's range of Darkvision to at least 90 feet, given they are more sensitive to light than other races with Darkvision out to 60 feet.

I think your half-elves could use more features... a while back I dabbled with the races in a manner similar to what you have here, and perhaps you could borrow from it.

Race Revisions and Additions (http://magerune.blogspot.com/2011/10/race-revisions-and-additions.html)

I admit my half-orcs and orcs are still missing something.

MojoBojangles
2015-04-18, 08:20 PM
As i see it, the PC is an extraordinary member of their race, not an average one.
Absolutely. And the favored class kind of goes back to the mindset of a the racial norm. So it rewards you for choosing a predefined option, rather than something you really want/that fits the character.


I'd love to see what you were working on.

And thanks, I'll get things organized. It was meant for being campaign specific. But if you look at the Pathfinder Race Creations Guidelines (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/creating-new-races), they have for Race Points of Standard 1-10, Advanced 11-20, and Monstrous 20+. I designed them at 15. Every race at 15. Which is on average 6 more RP than most races. The more I think about it, the more I'm gonna get on making a post. Would be nice to collaborate on this sort of thing.

MojoBojangles
2015-04-19, 11:55 AM
If you're interested in seeing them, I just made a new post about them. I'll be updating it soon.

Gnorman
2015-04-20, 02:58 PM
Gap between High Elves and Half Orcs is still significant. High Elves get Spell Penetration and a flat +2 bonus to 10 skills, some of which are the most useful in the game, in addition to the normal (if somewhat toned-down) elf bonuses. Half Orcs get: +1 to attacks with greatswords.