Amusing clashes between video game logic and reality.

[Traab]

This came up on another unrelated thread, and I was curious to see what other gamers could come up with. Basically, its times when the way the game works doesnt make sense from a realistic standpoint. As an example, copied from the other topic.


I am playing an old game called legend of legia, in it you save this entire kingdom basically right off the bat. Turn them all back into humans again and save the king, etc etc etc. Do they reward you? Uh, sorta? I think they give you a key to get past a dam that lets you keep moving on. You get no troops, no gear, no backup. Just a "Thanks for the help, feel free to stimulate our economy on your way out." Seriously, there are only two people at this point working on saving the world, would it have killed you to deck them out in your top of the line gear as a way of saying thanks and to help them continue to push the mist back even further?

I mean, can you imagine it? Just imagine for a moment that some catastrophe broke down the united states, like a disease or something. The survivors are huddled in little encampments spread all over the place, the victims are basically zombies. And then you, and ONLY you, figure out a way to instantly save the day. You free up all of, lets say california. With the stated goal to carry on curing the rest of the nation as well in a way that again, only you can. Of course they cheer for you, but they dont offer you any food or supplies to help you on your journey, just tell you where all the stores are so you can buy your own and go back to saving the world. Does that sound reasonable to you? I would at least expect the governor or whoever is in charge to spring for a backpack full of MREs for your trip, maybe some ammo for your gun. Maybe even offer you some backup to protect you on your trip. But no. "Thanks for saving us all, goodbye!"

[LibraryOgre]

In Skyrim, you learn chemistry by eating bees.

(Though, I suppose Oblivion is worse, since you learn chemistry by eating bread. It is theoretically possible to become a master alchemist by eating regular food)

[Cespenar]

In Skyrim, you learn chemistry by eating bees.

(Though, I suppose Oblivion is worse, since you learn chemistry by eating bread. It is theoretically possible to become a master alchemist by eating regular food)

That makes sense if you don't stretch it to its extreme, though.

All skills go up when you perform them. Alchemy is increased by doing alchemy. But if it goes up, say, 5 points by making a potion, it goes up 1 point by eating an ingredient, because, yeah, old time empiricism. Perhaps you can taste the ingredient's sourness and deduce its acidity from that? Or other properties. It's quite cool if you think about it like that.

It's better than running goblins through and suddenly learning new spells after a specific amount, after all.

[Douglas]

Another one from Skyrim: "Why yes, I know all about how to forge ridiculously high quality Deadric/Dragonbone/[insert ultimate material here] weapons and armor, the thousand plain iron daggers I made taught me everything."

[Xefas]

In Super Mario Brothers, I feel like the distance of Mario's vertical jump is unrealistic for a person of his height and weight. I mean, he can leap like three times his own height from a complete resting position.

Also, the thing where everything to his left just kinda ceases to be. I can confirm this does not happen IRL.

[factotum]

I only really notice stuff like this when it's especially egregious. For instance, in Hotline Miami 2 guards will quite happily continue on their regular patrols while walking over the dismembered corpses of half-a-dozen of their colleagues, which completely destroys any sense of immersion I get. Being able to become Arch-Mage of the Mage's Guild in Oblivion while being unable to cast even the simplest cantrip is something else that always irked me--at least in Skyrim you have to cast a couple of spells during that questline.

[Cespenar]

I only really notice stuff like this when it's especially egregious. For instance, in Hotline Miami 2 guards will quite happily continue on their regular patrols while walking over the dismembered corpses of half-a-dozen of their colleagues, which completely destroys any sense of immersion I get. Being able to become Arch-Mage of the Mage's Guild in Oblivion while being unable to cast even the simplest cantrip is something else that always irked me--at least in Skyrim you have to cast a couple of spells during that questline.

In Morrowind the titles had skill requirements as well as quest requirements. Then again, Morrowind had many things. Like jumping. :smalltongue:

[Alent]

Stick with the basics:

Animals do not drop weapons, armor, or gold coins when slain.

Evil Overlords are in charge of everything and to date they haven't summoned C'thulu or ended the world, but are instead more interested in selling you the things you never knew actually wanted.

The world's problems cannot be solved by finding the right longhaired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.

[GloatingSwine]

In every Legend of Zelda game, Link can obtain an item which allows him to lift multi-ton boulders and throw them like they are pots.

At no time does this ever increase the amount of damage he can do.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The world's problems cannot be solved by finding the right longhaired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.

Ah, but that didn't work in Chrono Trigger! :smalltongue:

[Lethologica]

Ah, but that didn't work in Chrono Trigger! :smalltongue:
That bastion of realism. :smallamused:

My nominee: in Crazy Taxi, shifting into reverse and then immediately back into drive while driving at top speed makes you go faster instead of spewing engine bits and body parts all over the road.

[Artanis]

First off, are we talking about a disconnect between how characters react to events vs. how rational people would react, or are we talking about game mechanics having no relation to real-world physics? Because I assumed that the OP was talking about the former, whereas practically every game has some example of the latter.



If it's the former...

I'll go with Wing Commander actually bothering with non-carrier capital ships. I mean seriously, battleships and destroyers and such have life expectancies exactly as long as the time it takes for a guy to fly a bomber there and push the "fire torpedo" button. If either side had quit making dreadnoughts and put all those resources into well-stocked carriers, the war would've lasted weeks instead of decades.

[GloatingSwine]

Ah, but that didn't work in Chrono Trigger! :smalltongue:

It did cause an abatement of the immediate problems though. As far as the people of 600AD are concerned, this method is infallible.

[Divayth Fyr]

(Though, I suppose Oblivion is worse, since you learn chemistry by eating bread. It is theoretically possible to become a master alchemist by eating regular food)
"Brewing" (http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=010410) potions also was interesting sometimes ;)

Though I guess it is better than Morrowind in one regard - you won't be eating scrap metal and raw glass in Oblivion... Or huge chunks of adamantium ore...

[stcfg]

There is very high number of video games where random townspeople are totally fine with someone going into their house and taking their stuff.

[Douglas]

There is very high number of video games where random townspeople are totally fine with someone going into their house and taking their stuff.
And the classic Skyrim "bucket over shopkeeper's head" to avoid getting caught stealing.

[LibraryOgre]

"Brewing" (http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=010410) potions also was interesting sometimes ;)

Though I guess it is better than Morrowind in one regard - you won't be eating scrap metal and raw glass in Oblivion... Or huge chunks of adamantium ore...

Dammit, I needed space in my pack! :smallbiggrin:

[Cyber Punk]

A real-life translation of what I do in Skyrim: walk into a shop. Pick up a potion and move to where the shopkeeper can't see you, then put the potion in your inventory. (I'm talking about the function that allows you to move objects without picking them up).

While we're on Skyrim, shopkeepers somehow knowing that an item is stolen and refusing to buy them. There's an Awkward Zombie comic about it, too.

"That dagger is stolen! This other incredibly identical dagger isn't stolen, but that one is!"

[Flickerdart]

Another one from Skyrim: "Why yes, I know all about how to forge ridiculously high quality Deadric/Dragonbone/[insert ultimate material here] weapons and armor, the thousand plain iron daggers I made taught me everything."
"I do not fear the man who has practiced one thousand kicks once. I fear the man who has practiced one kick one thousand times." -Bruce Lee, probably.



And the classic Skyrim "bucket over shopkeeper's head" to avoid getting caught stealing.
Unfortunately (?) they patched that out.

[BannedInSchool]

I only really notice stuff like this when it's especially egregious. For instance, in Hotline Miami 2 guards will quite happily continue on their regular patrols while walking over the dismembered corpses of half-a-dozen of their colleagues, which completely destroys any sense of immersion I get.
Related to this, when you can be standing atop a pile of corpses of their comrades you've slaughtered just now in front of them and the mobs keep charging you it really seems like they should think this is a bad idea on their parts. Although related to the "Difficulty" thread, if individual mobs did run away it would in effect just be making the game easier for the human, which runs counter to a better AI making it harder. :smallsmile:

[Wraith]

Refuse to detonate a Atomic Bomb; Gain an infinite supply of pet dogs.

(ie; Finishing a quest in Fallout 3, leveling up and taking the "Puppies!" perk that makes your canine companion respawn if he dies.)

Crack a 12ft tall, fire-breathing dragon in the face with a rock and shackle it inside a tiny, windowless prison; it becomes your loyal servant, willing to fight to the death for you immediately.

(A reasonable description of the Pokèmon franchise)

Carry seven different pistols, half a dozen high-powered rifles and a case full of dynamite in your belt and slung across your back while drinking whiskey in a crowded saloon, no one bats an eye; make a fist in a public street and three unrelated people gun you down in an instant.

(Red Dead Redemption's morality system was occasionally.... odd.)

Blown up by fireballs, struck by lightning, speared by enormous icicles and savagely mauled by three dozen house-sized monsters? Here's a bottle of magical goo, you'll be back to perfect health before it hits your stomach lining.
Stabbed once by an ordinary sword through a none-vital organ? Sorry, nothing we can do about that!

(Final Fantasy VII. You know who.) :smallbiggrin:


"I do not fear the man who has practiced one thousand kicks once. I fear the man who has practiced one kick one thousand times." -Bruce Lee, probably.

I'm not entirely sure that's how practice works. I mean, I spent dozens upon dozens of hours learning how to drive and now own a license, but my next logical step is not to immediately become a championship Formula 1 driver.

There are other steps in between the two, is what I'm getting at. :smallwink:

[Avilan the Grey]

Relevant. From 2011, but relevant. (http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_204_if-real-life-worked-like-role-playing-game/)

[GloatingSwine]

Refuse to detonate a Atomic Bomb; Gain an infinite supply of pet dogs.

(ie; Finishing a quest in Fallout 3, leveling up and taking the "Puppies!" perk that makes your canine companion respawn if he dies.)
:

Those things are only circumstantially linked though, it's not like doing that quest always gives you that perk.

I'd also question the logic of waiting until level 22 to resolve the megaton bomb quest rather than doing it and scoring the free house five minutes after leaving the vault, to be honest.

That quest is probably more of an example of what this thread intended to talk about as well. "Hello random wide eyed stranger I have never met and who is clearly unused to life out of doors, I have this old atom bomb, do you think you could make it not work any more?"

[russdm]

While we're on Skyrim, shopkeepers somehow knowing that an item is stolen and refusing to buy them. There's an Awkward Zombie comic about it, too.

"That dagger is stolen! This other incredibly identical dagger isn't stolen, but that one is!"

This is shows up in Oblivion and Morrowind where the guards would come running over to arrest you despite having no idea that you even committed a crime. It's like they all had superman levels of awareness regarding crime. At least Oblivion added in having to be witnessed doing some crimes to summon the guards.

Also, how are the shopkeepers supposed to know that the item has been stolen anyway? Do stolen items suddenly have a sticker that says: "I am stolen" on them?

In Morrowind, you can successfully steal something only to sometimes have the guard run up to you and start the arrest conversation with you. OR maybe you got seen made them do that, I haven't played Morrowind in a while.

[Wraith]

That quest is probably more of an example of what this thread intended to talk about as well. "Hello random wide eyed stranger I have never met and who is clearly unused to life out of doors, I have this old atom bomb, do you think you could make it not work any more?"

Mmm, fair enough.

But still, the Fallout level-up system in general is weird with regards the thread.
Shoot a man in the head, and immediately become a better haggler. Convince some guy not to kill a hostage, immediately learn how to rebuild Plasma Rifles. At least in Skyrim, you get better at Smithing things by.... Smithing things.

Anyways, can I remember a few more....

Triple Triad. "Oh, no! The stars have aligned, Ry'leh has risen and Cthulhu has awoken and will consume all living thin- what? A quick game of Magic the Gathering? Sure!"

Games without a morale system to make opponents run away from massively overleveled protagonists.
"Hey! That guy is wearing state-of-the-art power armour and just disintegrated that truck-sized Creature From The Beyond with a single shot! Imma run up and hit him with this lead pipe, that'll finish him off for sure!"

Amazingly trivial speed bumps that the protagonist is forced to abide by.
Pokemone does this a lot. If you reach certain points in the game without going to fight the nearest boss, quite often some guy will suddenly step in front of you and says something like "Hey, you look like a Pokemon trainer! You should check out the gym in (Town name)", refusing to let you by until his psychic knowledge informs you that you've been there already.
You can't walk around him. You can't tell him that you'll come back later. You can't punch him in the nose and run for it. You can't sic your fire-breathing God Monster on him and teach him a lesson about personal space.
Nope, just nod your head and obey the random stranger that you have never met before, has no means of forcing you to do what he says, and is only physically blocking about a quarter of the public highway.
FOREVER.

[Grif]

Every C&C game ever where you're literally forced to build an army on the spot, using magic technology funded by ore/tiberium/supplies instead of it being shipped in en masse. :smalltongue:

[Douglas]

Games without a morale system to make opponents run away from massively overleveled protagonists.
"Hey! That guy is wearing state-of-the-art power armour and just disintegrated that truck-sized Creature From The Beyond with a single shot! Imma run up and hit him with this lead pipe, that'll finish him off for sure!"
Reminds me of the "suicide by Hawke" jokes about the street gangs in Dragon Age 2.

Also certain scenes in Neverwinter Nights 2 in one of my playthroughs. The game goes into cutscene mode, some regular thugs start threatening and extorting me, and I'm just sitting there thinking "do you really not see or care about the two dozen extremely obvious visual spell effects on me right now?" I don't know about you, but if I was in a world where D&D-style magic was real and I had trouble making someone out through the extremely dense array of symbols, patterns, translucent spheres, and other markings glowing in the air around him and his unsheathed sword, I'd seriously reconsider any plans I might have had to mug him.

[Rodin]

Reminds me of the "suicide by Hawke" jokes about the street gangs in Dragon Age 2.



Better quote is from a dude named Kylon from Origins:

"And people actually voluntarily attack you? Are they just stupid?"

[Cespenar]

There's also the classic:

"You may be heading to the fight that would save the universe (and me, by consequence), so here are some new high-end weapons for you... for 100k gold apiece."

[factotum]

Also, how are the shopkeepers supposed to know that the item has been stolen anyway? Do stolen items suddenly have a sticker that says: "I am stolen" on them?


Effectively, yes--the "stolen" marker is a single flag added to the item which then affects all future interactions with it. This can lead to some really weird effects: for instance, in Morrowind I stole something from a shop. I got rid of it somehow (I forget how), then picked up an identical item somewhere else. When I tried to sell that item (which had no relation to the original one) to that shopkeeper, she said it was stolen from her and had her guards attack me!

[Wraith]

Skyrim continues to confound due to shop keepers being unable to see more than one item at a time.

I've lost count of the number of times that I have tried to sell a stack of, say, 10 potions, only to get to #4 (which is stolen) and being unable to sell the rest until I've used or discarded it.
Fine! Don't take that one then, but at least consider looking at the others instead of making me close down the menu, reopen it and find that potion again go through my bag all over again!

There's probably an easier way of getting around it, but it's still easier still if the menu just doesn't show me stuff that the merchant in question won't buy. Why on Earth would I dump out my entire sack of stuff on the counter and rummage through two dozen CLEARLY STOLEN items in front of a complete stranger until finding the one legit thing that they might be interested in?

[GloatingSwine]

There's also the classic:

"You may be heading to the fight that would save the universe (and me, by consequence), so here are some new high-end weapons for you... for 100k gold apiece."

That's just the local merchantry having absolute confidence in your future success.

[Cespenar]

That's just the local merchantry having absolute confidence in your future success.

I don't think overcutting prices is conducive of one's health when the physical prowess of the world-saving heroes are only matched by their chaotic and homicidal tendencies, but that's just me, I guess. :smalltongue:

[dramatic flare]

"hmm, I must have been seeing things," -every guard from every stealth game ever, right after chasing the protagonist around the map for a short while until the protagonist found a new place to hide.

Random mook attacks outside of bioware games are a thing too. They still happen in Bioware games, but at least they make a point of allies or the player character occasionally threatening/negotiating enemies into surrender beforehand. Always hated the random muggings in Arcanum from the late game.

Orc: GIVE ME MONEY NOW
PC:.......I have four allies, one of which is an ogre, and another of which is currently carrying the biggest gun you've ever seen.
ORC: GIVE ME MONEY!
PC: There's ONE OF YOU.
-what I wish I could say in some RPGs.

[GloatingSwine]

I don't think overcutting prices is conducive of one's health when the physical prowess of the world-saving heroes are only matched by their chaotic and homicidal tendencies, but that's just me, I guess. :smalltongue:

Remember in most games they are invincible.

They know this.

Other NPCs know it too. Especially in Bethesda games. The ones who are the most infuriating and smug? Always invincible. Mayor MacReady, Maven Blackbriar, etc. All invincible because they are "plot critical", all written so that you want to kill them as hard as possible.

[LibraryOgre]

"hmm, I must have been seeing things," -every guard from every stealth game ever, right after chasing the protagonist around the map for a short while until the protagonist found a new place to hide.

Random mook attacks outside of bioware games are a thing too. They still happen in Bioware games, but at least they make a point of allies or the player character occasionally threatening/negotiating enemies into surrender beforehand. Always hated the random muggings in Arcanum from the late game.

Orc: GIVE ME MONEY NOW
PC:.......I have four allies, one of which is an ogre, and another of which is currently carrying the biggest gun you've ever seen.
ORC: GIVE ME MONEY!
PC: There's ONE OF YOU.
-what I wish I could say in some RPGs.

Early in Mass Effect, you run into some warehouse workers who are a desperate, last line of defense for a mob boss. You have the option, standing there with a turian C-Sec officer and the mass of weapons and pain that is Urdnot Wrex, to have them decide "You know what, I don't like this guy anyway, I think I'll walk away now."

[zabbarot]

In Skyrim, you learn chemistry by eating bees.

(Though, I suppose Oblivion is worse, since you learn chemistry by eating bread. It is theoretically possible to become a master alchemist by eating regular food)

It gets silly when you add survival mods that track hunger and require you to eat to live. Eventually you're a master alchemist by necessity. :smalltongue:

[factotum]

It gets silly when you add survival mods that track hunger and require you to eat to live. Eventually you're a master alchemist by necessity. :smalltongue:

And given the way level scaling worked in Oblivion, that means you have little hope of progressing very far in the game, because gaining levels in alchemy still makes the enemies tougher even though throwing herbs at them tends not to work very well. :smallsmile:

[DaedalusMkV]

That's just the local merchantry having absolute confidence in your future success.

I remember in Final Fantasy X, where you have an opportunity to point out to a merchant that if you fail, the airship you're on will be destroyed and he will certainly die. His response basically amounts to "I'm absolutely confident in your ability to get the job done, so I see no reason to modify my prices."

The fact that it was right before probably the hardest boss in the entire game, and thus one the average player would take several tries to get through, was just icing on the cake.

[Traab]

Remember in most games they are invincible.

They know this.

Other NPCs know it too. Especially in Bethesda games. The ones who are the most infuriating and smug? Always invincible. Mayor MacReady, Maven Blackbriar, etc. All invincible because they are "plot critical", all written so that you want to kill them as hard as possible.

I played Everquest way back in the day. I have no clue how often my bard was murdered by merchants because I forgot to turn off his pbaoe damage chant. Because as a bard, I LOVE to sing songs that hurt the people im selling stuff to. And in that game you can attack every npc. Just.... all of them. Merchants, guards, bankers, small rats wandering the streets, it doesnt matter if they are your faction, an enemy faction or a neutral faction. You can attack them all.... and die. Ration merchants are hardcore badasses. Or eventually be high level enough to murder them all till you are hated by every faction in the game. Thats awesome fun. When you are high level enough to literally dance your way through a town full of guards that want to kill you and you mass murder your way through then then use shenanigans to sell to merchants there, its hilarious. You are leaving this trail of dead merchants and guards behind you everywhere you go. And yet somehow there arent wanted posters pinned to every tree and multi faction armies of npcs forming up to hunt you down.

[NEO|Phyte]

Early in Mass Effect, you run into some warehouse workers who are a desperate, last line of defense for a mob boss. You have the option, standing there with a turian C-Sec officer and the mass of weapons and pain that is Urdnot Wrex, to have them decide "You know what, I don't like this guy anyway, I think I'll walk away now."

Sadly, you only get that option if you remember to not barge through the door you just opened, IIRC.

[dramatic flare]

Early in Mass Effect, you run into some warehouse workers who are a desperate, last line of defense for a mob boss. You have the option, standing there with a turian C-Sec officer and the mass of weapons and pain that is Urdnot Wrex, to have them decide "You know what, I don't like this guy anyway, I think I'll walk away now."

Prime example of what I mean. Not all enemies are stupid enough to keep attacking foes heavily outgunning and outmatching them in Bioware games.

[Douglas]

Another one: plot that waits on the protagonist. The Evil Overlord has completed his artifact ritual OF DOOM, raised his Army of Evil, and is about to overrun everything and take over the world. Then he stops and waits so that... his primary enemy can rescue someone's cat? Go on a month-long voyage to dig up legendary buried treasure? Track down the thief who stole a local's gem collection? Complete dozens upon dozens of other inconsequential side quests? Really, the hero should have come back from the buried treasure trip to find the war's already over and the bad guy won.

Averting this is part of why I like Star Control 2 (and its open source port, The Ur-Quan Masters) so much. Some things happen based on time passing, without you being directly involved, and that does a lot to make the setting feel real.

[BannedInSchool]

Video games can fairly easily make sure rivers run at least not uphill, but I'm not sure they get the volumes of water quite right considering where the water is coming from or going to.

But in more thinking-type logic, in LOTRO Tom Bombadil asks you to follow the Witch King into the Great Barrow for a quest, to which I say, "Are you f@#$ing mental?!?". But in I go because I figure the game isn't going to be directing me into absolutely certain death. :smalltongue:

[Traab]

Another one: plot that waits on the protagonist. The Evil Overlord has completed his artifact ritual OF DOOM, raised his Army of Evil, and is about to overrun everything and take over the world. Then he stops and waits so that... his primary enemy can rescue someone's cat? Go on a month-long voyage to dig up legendary buried treasure? Track down the thief who stole a local's gem collection? Complete dozens upon dozens of other inconsequential side quests? Really, the hero should have come back from the buried treasure trip to find the war's already over and the bad guy won.

Averting this is part of why I like Star Control 2 (and its open source port, The Ur-Quan Masters) so much. Some things happen based on time passing, without you being directly involved, and that does a lot to make the setting feel real.

Yeah, I loved thinking about that one.

"Ok guys, our team is fully reunited, we know where kefka is located, and have an airship to get there! Lets spend a few weeks killing dinosaurs in this tiny forest till we are all as badass as we can get! Maybe run down to that dragon arena for awhile fighting specific opponents to get specific items!"

[Rodin]

Yeah, I loved thinking about that one.

"Ok guys, our team is fully reunited, we know where kefka is located, and have an airship to get there! Lets spend a few weeks killing dinosaurs in this tiny forest till we are all as badass as we can get! Maybe run down to that dragon arena for awhile fighting specific opponents to get specific items!"

That does at least make a modicum of sense. Kefka is basically bumming around at the top of his tower and only blows stuff up when he gets bored. You're the only group that can possibly stop him, and you only get one shot at taking on a guy with god-like power. Since he isn't about to blow up the world, it's better to make sure you're equipped with the absolute best equipment before going in. It may cost some lives from Kefka's rule, but a lot more will be lost if you try and fail.

On the other hand, there's games like Dragon Age: Inquisition where the bad guy proves he's capable of annihilating you, and you barely escape to an isolated fortress. Buuuut...you're not safe because nobody knows where you are, as the game makes it abundantly clear that word quickly spreads. So, does the bad guy immediately follow up his attack with his army? No, he sods off and does something else while you build an army out of literally nothing to stop him with.

[Landis963]

Back to Dragon Age: Origins, "If you give me elfroot for the big bad*ss army you're facing to fight the darkspawn, I'll give you some tips on how to get to a new level in your combat abilities. I see no issue with the fact that we are in a forest that's practically overgrown with the stuff, we are in a caravan of the people that inspired the name of the stuff, and that I am about to teach the master class in combat in return for you selling me my own goods."

Cheesiest cheese that ever cheesed, but that did not involve the terms "Specialization," "Warrior," or "Arcane."

[Kesnit]

And given the way level scaling worked in Oblivion, that means you have little hope of progressing very far in the game, because gaining levels in alchemy still makes the enemies tougher even though throwing herbs at them tends not to work very well. :smallsmile:

Not if you don't make Alchemy one of your major skills.

[Corlindale]

I understand the game design logic of impassable barriers, but in-game they very often make no sense at all. I am the chosen hero with amazing strength and devastating magical powers, but somehow I can't climb past a 2-foot fence? Or bash through this locked, obviously wooden, door, despite being able to wield a mace bigger than I am in one hand? And I somehow never learned to swim, so any water instantly kills me?

Zelda has been brought up already. I also like the fact that empty bottles are among the most valuable and rare items in many of those games.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I remember in Final Fantasy X, where you have an opportunity to point out to a merchant that if you fail, the airship you're on will be destroyed and he will certainly die. His response basically amounts to "I'm absolutely confident in your ability to get the job done, so I see no reason to modify my prices."

The fact that it was right before probably the hardest boss in the entire game, and thus one the average player would take several tries to get through, was just icing on the cake.

That was the boss that I never beat. The one that got away. Nowadays I could probably do it but as a little kid...

[Grif]

I understand the game design logic of impassable barriers, but in-game they very often make no sense at all. I am the chosen hero with amazing strength and devastating magical powers, but somehow I can't climb past a 2-foot fence? Or bash through this locked, obviously wooden, door, despite being able to wield a mace bigger than I am in one hand? And I somehow never learned to swim, so any water instantly kills me?


Pic related:
http://i.stack.imgur.com/uv3Wa.jpg

[Alent]

Pic related:
http://i.stack.imgur.com/uv3Wa.jpg

That picture is everything this thread is about. Why is a hexagonal wire mesh glass window:
A) Broken in a way that the wires are cleanly cut?
B) On the same door as that lock
C) On a door that is most clearly not a fire safety door?

[GloatingSwine]

That picture is everything this thread is about. Why is a hexagonal wire mesh glass window:
A) Broken in a way that the wires are cleanly cut?
B) On the same door as that lock
C) On a door that is most clearly not a fire safety door?

Whilst those are clearly valid points, the real issue is that that door represents an impediment to progress which most characters can't overcome until they are quite high level (Very Hard locks requires a lockpick skill of 100), and half of it is not even there.

(Also it is made of wood and the character probably has several nuclear devices in their pockets).

[russdm]

Whilst those are clearly valid points, the real issue is that that door represents an impediment to progress which most characters can't overcome until they are quite high level (Very Hard locks requires a lockpick skill of 100), and half of it is not even there.

(Also it is made of wood and the character probably has several nuclear devices in their pockets).

What? You can't reach your arm around and unlock the door from the inside? What happened to basic logic skills? Did the designers forget about that? Also with power armor on, can't you just smash through the door? Isn't it only made of wood?

[Hiro Protagonest]

What? You can't reach your arm around and unlock the door from the inside? What happened to basic logic skills? Did the designers forget about that? Also with power armor on, can't you just smash through the door? Isn't it only made of wood?

We need a list of "laws of RPGs". One of them being "no matter what the aesthetic of a door or chest is, the difficulty to open it is proportionate to the level of the enemies or loot behind it".

[BannedInSchool]

What? You can't reach your arm around and unlock the door from the inside? What happened to basic logic skills? Did the designers forget about that? Also with power armor on, can't you just smash through the door? Isn't it only made of wood?
It's entirely logical from in-game. The door is locked. You can't open a locked door. You may attempt to pick the lock of a locked door. You can only pass through an opened door. Attacking a door does not unlock or open it. :smallsmile: That's regardless of how the art department decided to decorate the door.

[Cyber Punk]

I remember one that the Goblins comic parodied, the arc with the 'Poorly-Locked Chest'. Complains asks why they can't lock it better, and he gets an answer that amounts to "It's tradition."

I'll mention an example from Assassins Creed 2 as well. "Oh, look at that standard and weak mook. Oh, now he's seen you and none of your weapons will work on him until you get to a specific point." >.>


It's entirely logical from in-game. The door is locked. You can't open a locked door. You may attempt to pick the lock of a locked door. You can only pass through an opened door. Attacking a door does not unlock or open it. That's regardless of how the art department decided to decorate the door.

Yes. Attacking a door with a RPG does not do anything to the door.

:smalltongue:

[Rodin]

I've always found it fairly inexplicable that so few games have a Bash mechanic. If Lockpicking is literally the only way to open a door or chest (other than finding a key, of course), then that skill becomes FAR more important than any other skill in the game. Many Bioware games suffer from this problem - I feel compelled to bring a Rogue along for their Lockpicking ability, which severely constrains how I build out my party. Lockpicking should be an optional thing that gives a way to resolve a problem, not a core game mechanic.

[Douglas]

I've always found it fairly inexplicable that so few games have a Bash mechanic. If Lockpicking is literally the only way to open a door or chest (other than finding a key, of course), then that skill becomes FAR more important than any other skill in the game. Many Bioware games suffer from this problem - I feel compelled to bring a Rogue along for their Lockpicking ability, which severely constrains how I build out my party. Lockpicking should be an optional thing that gives a way to resolve a problem, not a core game mechanic.
Neverwinter Nights 1 went a little too far in the opposite direction. There was rarely a reason to invest in lockpicking skill because every locked chest could just be bashed open by any random weapon to get exactly the same loot. NWN2 did a compromise that makes a lot more sense - you could bash locked chests open, but doing so had a chance of smashing some of the contents.

[Alent]

What? You can't reach your arm around and unlock the door from the inside? What happened to basic logic skills? Did the designers forget about that? Also with power armor on, can't you just smash through the door? Isn't it only made of wood?

That style of keyhole lock is typically the same on both sides, actually. The lock not being unlockable by reach-around is actually the least wrong part of that door.

As to bashing the door in? Based on the visually rotting wood and the way the door is twisted in the frame, it should just... fall from the hinges when you poke it gently with one finger.

Not every game can be nethack. "I hate this door!" *cast polymorph on the door*

[Inarius]

Neverwinter Nights 1 went a little too far in the opposite direction. There was rarely a reason to invest in lockpicking skill because every locked chest could just be bashed open by any random weapon to get exactly the same loot. NWN2 did a compromise that makes a lot more sense - you could bash locked chests open, but doing so had a chance of smashing some of the contents.

Honestly I'm not really sure the compromise in NWN 2 made any sense either. Having a chance to break a weapon or armor just by simply bashing a lock on the chest its in is a bit silly. If the weapon or armor was that fragile how would it even stand up in combat conditions. Potions I could see breaking, but thats about it really.

[Cyber Punk]

Just like Wasteland 2, but a bit better done: The contents only get destroyed if you try and blow the chest up with a strong explosive.

[BladeofObliviom]

In Skyrim, you learn chemistry by eating bees.

(Though, I suppose Oblivion is worse, since you learn chemistry by eating bread. It is theoretically possible to become a master alchemist by eating regular food)


That makes sense if you don't stretch it to its extreme, though.

All skills go up when you perform them. Alchemy is increased by doing alchemy. But if it goes up, say, 5 points by making a potion, it goes up 1 point by eating an ingredient, because, yeah, old time empiricism. Perhaps you can taste the ingredient's sourness and deduce its acidity from that? Or other properties. It's quite cool if you think about it like that.

Believe it or not, Oblivion actually rationalizes this one. Grinding alchemical materials against the teeth is "Wortcraft", a form of amateur alchemy that can release a tiny bit of a material's "essence".

[dramatic flare]

Neverwinter Nights 1 went a little too far in the opposite direction. There was rarely a reason to invest in lockpicking skill because every locked chest could just be bashed open by any random weapon to get exactly the same loot. NWN2 did a compromise that makes a lot more sense - you could bash locked chests open, but doing so had a chance of smashing some of the contents.

This seems like a common pattern between Bioware and Obsidian. In SW: Knights of the old republic you had to bring a rogue along to pick everything. Then Obsidian took over for KotOR 2 and included a bash mechanic.... which would likely break many contents. Then again By the end of that game you can be drowning in components and just make whatever equipment you wanted anyway....

Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magic Obscura allowed you bash things open, but only axes and hammers could do so without taking damage. Which makes sense, because swords are only good if their edge isn't destroyed but a hammer is still a hammer if it's taken a small chip.

[Flickerdart]

We need a list of "laws of RPGs". One of them being "no matter what the aesthetic of a door or chest is, the difficulty to open it is proportionate to the level of the enemies or loot behind it".
Except in Skyrim, where breaking half your lockpicks against a Master-level chest often gives you just a handful of gold and a gem or two.

[GloatingSwine]

Yes. Attacking a door with a nuclear RPG does not do anything to the door.

:smalltongue:

Fixed it for you.

I think in Deus Ex (the proper one) you could break open many doors as well, but it was loud and they had a hardness rating which determined what weapons would work on them. Some did require actual RPGs or other explosives to open if you werent the master of unlocking. (You were, lockpicking, hacking, and electronics were the skills to spend points on).

Of course, this was very noisy and tended to make a lot of people angry at you so you tried not to do it.

[Landis963]

Fixed it for you.

I think in Deus Ex (the proper one) you could break open many doors as well, but it was loud and they had a hardness rating which determined what weapons would work on them. Some did require actual RPGs or other explosives to open if you werent the master of unlocking. (You were, lockpicking, hacking, and electronics were the skills to spend points on).

Of course, this was very noisy and tended to make a lot of people angry at you so you tried not to do it.

Human Revolution recycled that mechanic as well, but a few were designated "indestructible" (so you needed to hack or trick them open somehow. (They even extended the mechanic to the smashable walls) Thankfully, those that were designated Indestructible actually look indestructible (thick sliding doors with a small window of reinforced glass).

[Rodin]

I remember I built my stealthy, pacifist Jensen to be able to break down walls. Why sneak in through the door when you can make your own?

This worked well apart from the very first time you can try it, since there's a guy stood on the other side. Instead of busting through the wall and knocking the guy out, however, Jensen reaches through the wall and break's the poor dude's neck. THAT was a hasty reload...

[Landis963]

I remember I built my stealthy, pacifist Jensen to be able to break down walls. Why sneak in through the door when you can make your own?

This worked well apart from the very first time you can try it, since there's a guy stood on the other side. Instead of busting through the wall and knocking the guy out, however, Jensen reaches through the wall and break's the poor dude's neck. THAT was a hasty reload...

I remember getting so mad when I scanned a wall with the aug that lets you see enemies through walls, and noticing that there was a guy on the other side of the breakable wall. Since I remembered that trick from the trailers, and the wall was at the other end of a lengthy (for the game) vent section, I had to wonder why there wasn't signage mentioning that pacifist players need not apply.

[endoperez]

In Divinity: Original Sin, the crafting is all sorts of weird.

To make dough, you need flour and water. The amount of water doesn't matter. You need one bag of flour, and one water-filled thing. It can be a mug, or a bucket, it makes no difference.

If you have a water barrel, you get infinite amounts of water from it by using a cup, a mug, a bucket or a bottle on it. However, only characters with Crafting know how to fill a mug with water.

You can't use rainwater (although it makes you wet), and standing under a waterfall or a river doesn't work either (and that doesn't make you wet). Only water barrels.

Oh, and don't drink the water - if you do that, the mug disappears FOREVER, which might leave you unable to bake any more, since you need water in a cup or a bucket, instead of water in a barrel.

[factotum]

Crafting often works in weird ways, though. I've played games (can't name them off the top of my head) where you craft potions by just combining herbs. Somehow these herbs not only come together to make the potion, they also form the glass bottle the potion sits in--which then also disappears when you drink it? You kind of wonder why they didn't just do the more sensible thing and have the herbs combine into some sort of edible pill!

[Alent]

Crafting often works in weird ways, though. I've played games (can't name them off the top of my head) where you craft potions by just combining herbs. Somehow these herbs not only come together to make the potion, they also form the glass bottle the potion sits in--which then also disappears when you drink it? You kind of wonder why they didn't just do the more sensible thing and have the herbs combine into some sort of edible pill!

Nothing will ever top Star Ocean 2's "WTF?" level of crafting system. I remember trying to create either a Mithril or an Orihalcon weapon with Blacksmithing and the result being Rotten Sashimi. :smallbiggrin: It's like, the ultimate in Vegan seafood? :smallconfused:

[Divayth Fyr]

Crafting often works in weird ways, though. I've played games (can't name them off the top of my head) where you craft potions by just combining herbs. Somehow these herbs not only come together to make the potion, they also form the glass bottle the potion sits in--which then also disappears when you drink it? You kind of wonder why they didn't just do the more sensible thing and have the herbs combine into some sort of edible pill!
Similiarly, why are (usually) potion bottles consumed when we drink their contents, even in games which have empty bottles and vials as clutter?

[snowblizz]

Similiarly, why are (usually) potion bottles consumed when we drink their contents, even in games which have empty bottles and vials as clutter?

Where'd ya think all those empty bottles come from..? The bottle is placed in the correct bin at the exit of the dungeon or just thrown on the ground rolling away not some hidden crevice, depending on your ecological alignment. That make a fairly funny comic for this one above. After-dungeon raiding activities... recycling scrolls and potion bottles at the recycling station.

[Traab]

Just like Wasteland 2, but a bit better done: The contents only get destroyed if you try and blow the chest up with a strong explosive.

World of warcraft used to have locked chests in the dungeons you needed a rogue, a blacksmith with skeleton keys, or an engineer with a seaforium charge to blow the lock up. :p

[GloatingSwine]

Similiarly, why are (usually) potion bottles consumed when we drink their contents, even in games which have empty bottles and vials as clutter?

Because only Link understands the true value of an empty bottle. All those other dungeon explorers casually eating them along with the potion has left the world chronically bereft meaning that they are among the most valuable items in Hyrule.

[Landis963]

Similiarly, why are (usually) potion bottles consumed when we drink their contents, even in games which have empty bottles and vials as clutter?

No easy way of cleaning out the residue (esp. with regard to single-use poisons) mid-dungeon means you can't use the bottle again, plus the innate kleptomania of most player characters means that several empty bottles get discarded in favor of that shiny new piece of enchanted armor.

[LibraryOgre]

Worth noting that, in New Vegas, an empty bottle was a component of a lot of Survival recipes.

[Gnoman]

In Fallout 3, one of the craftable weapons was the Nuka Grenade, a tin can filled with radioactive soda, turpentine, and cleanser. The biggest obstacle in making it wasn't the radioactive soda, but the tin can, because most of the tin cans were a different object - the dented tin can.

[Douglas]

In Fallout 3, one of the craftable weapons was the Nuka Grenade, a tin can filled with radioactive soda, turpentine, and cleanser. The biggest obstacle in making it wasn't the radioactive soda, but the tin can, because most of the tin cans were a different object - the dented tin can.
And of course the same concoction couldn't possibly work with a dent in its outer casing. ... Where's an eye-roll smiley when you need one?

[Avilan the Grey]

SPeaking of Crafting... Sometimes i can't figure out why I like or dislike it in games.
I like it in Skyrim, but in Dragon Age 2 it irritates me to no end. Maybe it's because in Skyrim I don't feel stressed by it, I don't feel I am missing out on something because I am not doing it this very minute while in DA2 I felt like "Damn! MUST DO NOW". I guess it might have to do with the gameplay, really. An open world sandbox is just less stressful in general?

[Cespenar]

SPeaking of Crafting... Sometimes i can't figure out why I like or dislike it in games.
I like it in Skyrim, but in Dragon Age 2 it irritates me to no end. Maybe it's because in Skyrim I don't feel stressed by it, I don't feel I am missing out on something because I am not doing it this very minute while in DA2 I felt like "Damn! MUST DO NOW". I guess it might have to do with the gameplay, really. An open world sandbox is just less stressful in general?

If I'd summarize my feelings, in Skyrim it's simple enough and well integrated with the game. In DA2 it gives off the feeling of having been designed just to say they have a crafting system. Like checking a box or something.

[factotum]

To my mind, given that crafting inherently involves more time and busywork than buying stuff from a vendor or opening a chest in a dungeon, you should be able to produce better stuff with it than the aforementioned vendor or chest approach--yet this rarely seems to be the case. It is in Skyrim because you can't really get dragonbone armour any other way, and you can also use the crafting skills to improve stuff that you *do* find lying around in chests, so it's actually worth devoting some time and effort to improving those skills.

[Traab]

Nothing will ever top Star Ocean 2's "WTF?" level of crafting system. I remember trying to create either a Mithril or an Orihalcon weapon with Blacksmithing and the result being Rotten Sashimi. :smallbiggrin: It's like, the ultimate in Vegan seafood? :smallconfused:

Oh god I loved the star ocean 2 game so much. There was just so much awesome in it, including this stuff. It was like 75% semi hidden stuff and interesting skill systems. The other 25% was majorly hidden stuff. :smallbiggrin: Its been awhile, but if I remember correctly, to get the absolute best armor in the game, your main character had to start with specific skills that are randomly assigned, learn the pickpocket skill which takes learning several other specific skills AND buying a fairly random item from a town that has no real major benefit obvious to it, and then you have to (hopefully successfully) pickpocket this insanely awesome gear from one time only events where you get to interact with the people involved. There is just so much stuff that you couldnt possibly randomly stumble over all of it to make the stars align properly to make it happen. Especially since like, 99% of everything you DO pickpocket, is generally low value junk. Oh yeah, and some of the events only happen based on who is in your party at the time iirc. I still have that game. I wish it worked, it was a lot of fun. Its one of the few rpgs I have ever actually beaten without a lot of cheating.

[Alent]

Oh god I loved the star ocean 2 game so much. There was just so much awesome in it, including this stuff. It was like 75% semi hidden stuff and interesting skill systems. The other 25% was majorly hidden stuff. :smallbiggrin: Its been awhile, but if I remember correctly, to get the absolute best armor in the game, your main character had to start with specific skills that are randomly assigned, learn the pickpocket skill which takes learning several other specific skills AND buying a fairly random item from a town that has no real major benefit obvious to it, and then you have to (hopefully successfully) pickpocket this insanely awesome gear from one time only events where you get to interact with the people involved. There is just so much stuff that you couldnt possibly randomly stumble over all of it to make the stars align properly to make it happen. Especially since like, 99% of everything you DO pickpocket, is generally low value junk. Oh yeah, and some of the events only happen based on who is in your party at the time iirc. I still have that game. I wish it worked, it was a lot of fun. Its one of the few rpgs I have ever actually beaten without a lot of cheating.

I think you're mixing up stealing the Mischief and Fortune items with stealing Battle Suits from the Calnus bridge crew and Ernest. (You can actually unlock the Nimble Fingers talent midway through the first disc. I've never done Clod's side of the game, but I'm pretty sure you can unlock it by then.) You're right in that SO2 had an absurd amount of hidden stuff. I was always fond of blackmailing innkeepers into selling me their establishment. I also rather liked how there were areas of the overworld that were basically pointless unless you needed certain crafting materials.

I never really cared for Battle Suits all that much. I favored the special effects on Reflect Mail to the raw stats of Battle Suits. There were some absolutely beautiful things you could do with the right party setup and reflect mail. I was one of those weird people who ran a party of Dias, Bowman, Rena, and Noel. My record for Indalecio Unlimited was something like 9 minutes and my fastest Iselia Queen kill is roughly 6~7 seconds.

Actually, the Iselia Queen kill was another really fun RL vs Star Ocean 2 logic disconnect... It was possible to block people to death, since when you attacked someone and they blocked you, it'd send out a spray of stars. If you get hit by ten of them, you automatically die.

[Wraith]

Grid-based inventories.

Deus Ex did it better, but before that was Baldur's Gate (among others) in which a character had a backpack which could carry either 16 full suits of magical Full Plate armour (including vambraces, greaves, undershirt and gorget) OR.... 16 different rings.

[factotum]

Grid-based inventories.

It doesn't necessarily make it any more logical to not have the inventory be grid-based. In Might and Magic 6, 7 and 8 you had a large rectangular area that was your inventory, and different objects had different sizes. That still meant that each character in your party was perfectly OK carrying about 3 or 4 full suits of armour and a bunch of other gear!

[Wraith]

That kinda makes a little bit more sense depending on whether or not you also have a separate encumbrance value. Maybe they have a big sack, and if they fill it with steel bars then they can barely walk or, in some games I've played, be completely unable to move at all.

In Baldur's Gate, you could carry 16 stacks of items (different items had different sized stacks, so arrows went up to 40 whereas scrolls went up to 5, and so on) and you were also limited to a maximum weight of items that you could carry, which only applied to how fast you could move about.

Which made for a very surreal scenario of one character carrying a suit of platemail in her bag and being unable to walk properly.... and then cramming in another 15 on top and still being able to stroll slowly down the street while fifteen times over their carry weight, at the same speed as just a few ounces.
Also, despite carrying hundreds of kilos of equipment, it has no effect on anything like Dexterity values or Reflex saves.... These guys couldn't walk above a tortoise-like crawl, but they can literally dodge an arrow in flight and dance nimbly through tripwire traps. :smalltongue:

[BannedInSchool]

And you can switch which set of boots you're wearing while you're running. :smallbiggrin:

[RagingKrikkit]

Crack a 12ft tall, fire-breathing dragon in the face with a rock and shackle it inside a tiny, windowless prison; it becomes your loyal servant, willing to fight to the death for you immediately.

(A reasonable description of the Pokèmon franchise)

Charizard is 5'7", about the size of my little brother.

[KillianHawkeye]

Because only Link understands the true value of an empty bottle. All those other dungeon explorers casually eating them along with the potion has left the world chronically bereft meaning that they are among the most valuable items in Hyrule.

Which is funny when you consider his insane lack of respect for pottery. :smallbiggrin:

[Destro_Yersul]

That kinda makes a little bit more sense depending on whether or not you also have a separate encumbrance value. Maybe they have a big sack, and if they fill it with steel bars then they can barely walk or, in some games I've played, be completely unable to move at all.

In Baldur's Gate, you could carry 16 stacks of items (different items had different sized stacks, so arrows went up to 40 whereas scrolls went up to 5, and so on) and you were also limited to a maximum weight of items that you could carry, which only applied to how fast you could move about.

Which made for a very surreal scenario of one character carrying a suit of platemail in her bag and being unable to walk properly.... and then cramming in another 15 on top and still being able to stroll slowly down the street while fifteen times over their carry weight, at the same speed as just a few ounces.
Also, despite carrying hundreds of kilos of equipment, it has no effect on anything like Dexterity values or Reflex saves.... These guys couldn't walk above a tortoise-like crawl, but they can literally dodge an arrow in flight and dance nimbly through tripwire traps. :smalltongue:

I did something similar in Fallout 3. Raven Rock was full of suits of power armour and plasma guns. This was very heavy, but your carrying capacity is basically a toggle switch. Are you over it, yes/no. It doesn't matter HOW much you're over it...

naturally, I left Raven Rock carrying about 2000lbs of stuff. Plodded slowly over to somewhere with a container I could stash things in. Fast-travelled back and forth from there to my house until all of my shiny loot was safely esconced in a single tiny storage locker.

[Traab]

When it comes to bags, I just LOVE world of warcraft. Not because they can hold a specific amount of items no matter what size they are, but because the higher level you go, the more slots they have, and I cant help but picture my mage dragging 6 sleeping bag sized backpacks behind him, full of potentially thousands of pounds of random items. Everything from food and water, to armor, weapons, chunks of leather, piles of ore, to the head of onyxia or nefarion, giant dragons it takes (or took) a raid force to bring down. Soon my bags will be the size of school buses and I will be able to transport entire WORLDS WORTH OF LOOT! :smallbiggrin:

At least everquest was closer to realistic. Gear had weight to it. You could only carry so much stuff before you started to slow down. Too much weight and you could barely move. There was a famous player who was basically a merchant for high end tradeable items. He was so rich, people used to kill him by casting levitate on him. Because ten minutes later (or however long it took) the spell would fade, he would drop about a foot, and he would die from falling damage due to his scrooge mcduck money vault level of cash he had on him.

[Douglas]

At least everquest was closer to realistic. Gear had weight to it. You could only carry so much stuff before you started to slow down. Too much weight and you could barely move. There was a famous player who was basically a merchant for high end tradeable items. He was so rich, people used to kill him by casting levitate on him. Because ten minutes later (or however long it took) the spell would fade, he would drop about a foot, and he would die from falling damage due to his scrooge mcduck money vault level of cash he had on him.
I assume his customers came to him and he had a well known fixed location he hung out at. Or maybe some kind of slow circuit he walked.

[Cespenar]

I think probably the original X-Com had one of the better inventory solutions, with both weight and volume. Your guys also had these slots on their belt and flak vests for easier access, IIRC.

[Jlerpy]

I think probably the original X-Com had one of the better inventory solutions, with both weight and volume. Your guys also had these slots on their belt and flak vests for easier access, IIRC.

Yes, I loved that system. I just wish it were clearer how weight worked and how much things weighed.

[Alent]

I think probably the original X-Com had one of the better inventory solutions, with both weight and volume. Your guys also had these slots on their belt and flak vests for easier access, IIRC.

I was always fond of Castle of the Winds' inventory system in terms of realism vs packrat.

It was rather weak as roguelikes go, but it managed to have an icon based inventory w/o slots, instead using clearly marked weight and volume. The only jarring disconnect it had was that worn backpacks reduced the weight of everything carried by 10%. It was rather nice having effectively infinite storage, as nothing on the ground ever despawned. (Take that, Diablo 2.)

[Cespenar]

I was always fond of Castle of the Winds' inventory system in terms of realism vs packrat.

It was rather weak as roguelikes go, but it managed to have an icon based inventory w/o slots, instead using clearly marked weight and volume. The only jarring disconnect it had was that worn backpacks reduced the weight of everything carried by 10%. It was rather nice having effectively infinite storage, as nothing on the ground ever despawned. (Take that, Diablo 2.)

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead has a clear weight-volume thing going on as well. And they do it right with the packs adding volume space alone.

[Alent]

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead has a clear weight-volume thing going on as well. And they do it right with the packs adding volume space alone.

I meant, everything carried IN the pack! :mitd: But that is nice, I wish more games would use that system.

[Wraith]

Charizard is 5'7", about the size of my little brother.

Honestly, I was thinking of Rayquaza. Feel free to include such oversized Mon as Groudon, Snorlax and Wailord, if it makes you any happier.


I did something similar in Fallout 3. Raven Rock was full of suits of power armour and plasma guns. This was very heavy, but your carrying capacity is basically a toggle switch. Are you over it, yes/no. It doesn't matter HOW much you're over it...

naturally, I left Raven Rock carrying about 2000lbs of stuff. Plodded slowly over to somewhere with a container I could stash things in. Fast-travelled back and forth from there to my house until all of my shiny loot was safely ensconced in a single tiny storage locker.

Everyone has their own TARDIS-box somewhere in New Vegas - mine was always an 18" wide suitcase in the caravan at the 188 Trading Post, which usually contained half a dozen miniguns, gatling lasers, Fatboy launchers and suits of power armour along with whatever other junk I'd collected along the way..... :smallbiggrin:

Did you ever do the corpse-carrier trick? Find some guy. Doesn't matter who, so long as they're expendable. Now kill them in a gruesome and violent fashion so that they are partially dismembered. Now find one of those pieces - an eyeball or hand will do - and Loot it. Move everything from your inventory, into that of the corpse. Then pick up the piece with your Mouse Look/Manipulate button.

You now have infinite carrying capacity, as there is no upper limit to how much stuff you can cram into that little gobbet of person and because you're not putting it into *your* backpack it remains entirely weightless until you drop it. Logic!

[GloatingSwine]

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead has a clear weight-volume thing going on as well. And they do it right with the packs adding volume space alone.


I'm not sure why people are confused about backpacks reducing the apparent weight of items.

By distributing the load of items between several points on the body, and carrying the mass on the trunk of the body, backpacks do reduce the apparent weight of an item.

You could carry far more in a backpack than you could in your hands.

[Cespenar]

Eh. Maybe I skipped my core and just did arms every day. :smalltongue:

Joking aside, maybe if the weight reduction would apply only to the items in the backpack, it'd be better. Oh, and non-cumulatively, of course.

[Traab]

I assume his customers came to him and he had a well known fixed location he hung out at. Or maybe some kind of slow circuit he walked.

Yep, the East Commons tunnel. Basically, when the game was fairly young, the players got together and designated this one spot, due to its low level, lack of guards that might hate you, and general out of the way location, to form an impromptu bazaar. Everyone who wanted to sell or trade stuff went there and did zone wide messages letting everyone know what they had, and it ran the gamut, from low level jewelry to buying the right to tag along on a end game raid and loot a specific item from the boss. Eventually the devs decided to add in their own bazaar to the game and that changed how things worked, but for those early years, you had people who would log in for hours and hours doing nothing but buying selling and trading gear trying to make a profit. Even I did it for awhile. I never got to high end gear, but I was making a solid profit off low to mid level stuff that pretty much everyone buys for their new character.

It was amusing you see, because you could actually equip your level 1 warrior in say, level 60 gear, and maybe not get the FULL benefit right away, but enough of it to stomp your way through the low to mid levels of the game solo. Which was a big deal, because everquest really pushed grouping. Not every class could solo effectively. So being able to roam around killing stuff by yourself was an awesome novelty while waiting three hours for a spot in a group to open up.

Another fun thing was high level buffs on low level characters. Imagine a wandering druid jogs past, and on a whim casts three spells on you. Suddenly your hp and armor are tripled, and you have a damage shield that hits the enemy for more damage per shot than you can do. Oh, and now you can run really fast as well. For the next ten minutes or half hour, or however long the ds lasted, you were a whirling dervish of death and destruction on things your level, and even after the damage shield dropped, the other buffs stayed on much longer, so you were a tank, even if you were playing the squishiest caster that ever lived.

[erikun]

Which is funny when you consider his insane lack of respect for pottery. :smallbiggrin:
Perhaps Link is the son of a glassblower, who has a deep respect for glassworks but a secret bias against pottery?


And of course the same concoction couldn't possibly work with a dent in its outer casing. ... Where's an eye-roll smiley when you need one?
Let's be fair: if you are making some highly dangerous and likely radioactive explosives, are you going to be putting it inside a faulty container which might rupture unpredictably?

[Gnoman]

Let's be fair: if you are making some highly dangerous and likely radioactive explosives, are you going to be putting it inside a faulty container which might rupture unpredictably?

When you're using a centuries-old bit of garbage that you found in a bombed-out office building, the dent isn't really going to make a rupture more likely.

[Traab]

Perhaps Link is the son of a glassblower, who has a deep respect for glassworks but a secret bias against pottery?


Let's be fair: if you are making some highly dangerous and likely radioactive explosives, are you going to be putting it inside a faulty container which might rupture unpredictably?

BAH! Pottery is nothing but dried MUD! Glass is a work of art that takes true craftsmanship to create!

[Cyber Punk]

I don't know if this has been mentioned (and won't believe it if it hasn't), but... adventure game puzzles.

Some adventure game puzzles are just totally irrational. An example that is usually given is a game where you have to make a disguise. Instead of doing the sensible thing, instead you have to make a moustache out of cat hairs and sello-tape. :smallmad:

As Yahtzee put it:


First think of a problem that the player has to get around like, say, helping a cat get down from a tree,
Then think of how a normal sensible person would solve the issue with the objects that would be close to hand,
Then seal your head inside a half-full vat of boiling chlorine for about twenty minutes
Then write down another way to solve the problem that at that moment makes perfect sense to your probably fatally poisoned mind.
Repeat this process until you've discovered the most circuitous possible solution, maybe hiding a spider under the sunshade of Old Man Witherstein's car so that he crashes into the treetrunk, dislodging the cat and allowing you to catch it in a bucket of rose petals you found on the moon.


He's right on the money on this one.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I don't know if this has been mentioned (and won't believe it if it hasn't), but... adventure game puzzles.

Some adventure game puzzles are just totally irrational. An example that is usually given is a game where you have to make a disguise. Instead of doing the sensible thing, instead you have to make a moustache out of cat hairs and sello-tape. :smallmad:

If there's one thing I've learned from Mostly Walking (a webshow where three guys play adventure games), it's that adventure game logic has nothing to do with real world logic, and an entire level of an adventure game represents a Rube Goldberg invention more than anything else.

[Landis963]

I don't know if this has been mentioned (and won't believe it if it hasn't), but... adventure game puzzles.

Some adventure game puzzles are just totally irrational. An example that is usually given is a game where you have to make a disguise. Instead of doing the sensible thing, instead you have to make a moustache out of cat hairs and sello-tape. :smallmad:


The Myst series wasn't too bad about really, really off-the-wall tactics, but someone needed to take Atrus aside and have a nice long chat with him about his penchant for hiding secret rooms in fireplaces. Also, his complexity addiction in general. (His dad was bad about this too - How many steps does it take to power your linking chambers again, Gehn?)

[Traab]

AH! I got a good one. Resident Evil 1. In Resident Evil, you have a hidden research facility underneath a mansion. Obviously you need good security right? Instead of fingerprint or retina scanners, locked doors only a guard on the other side can open for you, etc. They have medallions broken into three parts hidden in specific parts of the mansion you have to assemble and bring back to the locked door. The only numeric code locked security door in the place, has the code hidden on the pool table by placing specific balls in a specific order. They have weaponry located in the place, but its trapped. The shotgun sets off an indiana jones style booby trap, requiring you to bring a BROKEN shotgun that you can place on the switch so the trap isnt triggered like its raiders of the lost ark. I kept waiting for the damn boulder to drop and roll after me.

It makes you wonder, when they were not over run by zombies, did they have an intern reset all these traps and puzzles every time someone came into work? Was it his job to crank the ceiling back into place after security had to grab a spare weapon for an alarm going off? Did he have to arrange the pool table for the weekly reset pass number?

How about Resident Evil 2? Iirc, most of that takes place in a POLICE STATION! And yet to unlock the doors and find all the stuff requires placing medallions on statues, lighting fires so you can free jewels which have to be placed on yet more statues, cranks and cog wheels, multiple keys, multiple key CARDS, special stones, the list goes on. Now, im not a cop, but aside from the keycards, that seems a trifle odd.

[Gnoman]

AH! I got a good one. Resident Evil 1. In Resident Evil, you have a hidden research facility underneath a mansion. Obviously you need good security right? Instead of fingerprint or retina scanners, locked doors only a guard on the other side can open for you, etc. They have medallions broken into three parts hidden in specific parts of the mansion you have to assemble and bring back to the locked door. The only numeric code locked security door in the place, has the code hidden on the pool table by placing specific balls in a specific order. They have weaponry located in the place, but its trapped. The shotgun sets off an indiana jones style booby trap, requiring you to bring a BROKEN shotgun that you can place on the switch so the trap isnt triggered like its raiders of the lost ark. I kept waiting for the damn boulder to drop and roll after me.

It makes you wonder, when they were not over run by zombies, did they have an intern reset all these traps and puzzles every time someone came into work? Was it his job to crank the ceiling back into place after security had to grab a spare weapon for an alarm going off? Did he have to arrange the pool table for the weekly reset pass number?

How about Resident Evil 2? Iirc, most of that takes place in a POLICE STATION! And yet to unlock the doors and find all the stuff requires placing medallions on statues, lighting fires so you can free jewels which have to be placed on yet more statues, cranks and cog wheels, multiple keys, multiple key CARDS, special stones, the list goes on. Now, im not a cop, but aside from the keycards, that seems a trifle odd.

First, there were boulders chasing you. Twice.

Second, I think it was implied that all those medallions and such were left in-place under normal operations.

Third, it's pointed out in RE3 that the designer of the mansion (and IIRC, the police station (formerly city hall) and other important local buildings was quite literally insane.

[Leon]

A real-life translation of what I do in Skyrim: walk into a shop. Pick up a potion and move to where the shopkeeper can't see you, then put the potion in your inventory. (I'm talking about the function that allows you to move objects without picking them up).

While we're on Skyrim, shopkeepers somehow knowing that an item is stolen and refusing to buy them. There's an Awkward Zombie comic about it, too.

"That dagger is stolen! This other incredibly identical dagger isn't stolen, but that one is!"


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f278/katietiedrich/comic274.png

[snowblizz]

I was always fond of Castle of the Winds' inventory system in terms of realism vs packrat.

It was rather weak as roguelikes go, but it managed to have an icon based inventory w/o slots, instead using clearly marked weight and volume. The only jarring disconnect it had was that worn backpacks reduced the weight of everything carried by 10%. It was rather nice having effectively infinite storage, as nothing on the ground ever despawned. (Take that, Diablo 2.)

Someone else who has played that classic!

Man did my friend and I try to game the inventory limits. There were some tricksy things you could do with chests and enchanted backpacks (IIRC they had fixed weight and volume) and more then once one would teleport up with both hands carrying a chest filled with backpacks...:smallbiggrin:
Although it couldn't be abused *too* far.