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Ranis
2007-04-15, 07:25 AM
I'm making a lich for my game, and I need a really, really, really good place to hide her phycaltery so that the PCs don't focus on trying to find it and instead focus on, y'know, saving the world. So, I'm not going to BS anything and say that they can't find it, or that it isn't there, because that's silly and I'm not that kind of DM.

Ideas I've had so far;
-The homebrew world that is my setting is a cylinder with seven suns floating through it. Hide it inside one of the suns. A long, long stretch, I know, but this lich has powerful allies from other dimensions. It can happen.

-One of the PCs picks it up inadvertently and they have no idea they have it. It would be appropriately magically masked, of course, and would be the headpeice for say a staff of some kind, or a jewel in a Helm of Brilliance. Because, y'know, magic items are never more than they seem, right?

-One of the other villains has it, and he doesn't know. The lich would trust him to keep it safe, because she knows that he is more powerful than she, and also haughty and arrogant.


Anyone else have some better ideas? I'd like something foolproof and concrete, anyone who could help with this will get a cookie! :D

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-15, 07:31 AM
At the bottom of the sea.

PnP Fan
2007-04-15, 07:36 AM
On another plane of existence (elemental non-damaging would be best, so air, water or earth) Preferably somwhere that the Lich can't even find it.

Unless of course the story is supposed to shift towards killing the Lich later on. Then I'd put it on another continent, not impossible to get to, but very inconvenient.

Ranis
2007-04-15, 07:41 AM
See, that can't happen, 'cause there are no other planes of existence on this world. At least, not that anyone knows of. It's extremely complicated.

And, the story shouldn't shift to killing her later on, and if it does, then I'll move it to a more PC-applicable area.

Eshu
2007-04-15, 07:50 AM
Make it a mundane item the characters would not normally care much about. I'd say a journal or the like, kept by the lich during their life, but that's something that some more scholarly types might pick up (or the just-plain-weird ones). Really, any sort of keepsake like that would work I think -- a painting of her in childhood with friends, a stuffed & mounted pet (would probably work great for making the PCs think she's nuckin' futs, keeping Fluffy around in a magically preserved state for several hundred years, talking to and petting the animal like it's still alive).

For added hilarity, you could always put a nicely enchanted item like a necklace of fireballs on the lich's person to be found and mistaken for the phylactery. Nothing says "try again" quite like triggering multiple 5-8d6 fireballs at point-blank range. :)

Talya
2007-04-15, 08:04 AM
In the spider golem guarding your matron-mother's temple!

Maryring
2007-04-15, 08:10 AM
If you've got timetravel, then in the future. If not... a coin in a pocket on one of her clothing items. I doubt that your PC's would shuffle through her wardrobe too much.

martyboy74
2007-04-15, 08:13 AM
Enchant it so it produces a continuous Force Box effect. Then, teleport it to the bottom of the game world's equivalent of the Marianas Trench. With weights attached.

LCR
2007-04-15, 08:13 AM
Can you use people as a phylactery?
If so, kidnap a child and make it yours. No hero will ever slay a child.

JellyPooga
2007-04-15, 08:18 AM
Give it to a skeleton minion. Also give it a spade. Tell it to dig. Forever.

With any luck, it should be several miles down and counting by the time the heroes come looking for you. When they do, fill the hole with Boneyard (creature from Libris Mortis) and Black Sand (from Sandstorm).

(oh, make sure you're not on a plane of existance that has a core composition like our Earth (i.e. magma under the crust), otherwise you're screwed)

Ranis
2007-04-15, 08:26 AM
Can you use people as a phylactery?
If so, kidnap a child and make it yours. No hero will ever slay a child.

Now, THAT is clever.

JellyPooga- However sinisterly fun that is, It wouldn't work with my world. Ambient chaotic energy circles this giant cylinder, and the phycaltery would be ripped apart by the time it gets to the outside of the world.

JellyPooga
2007-04-15, 08:36 AM
JellyPooga- However sinisterly fun that is, It wouldn't work with my world. Ambient chaotic energy circles this giant cylinder, and the phycaltery would be ripped apart by the time it gets to the outside of the world.

shucks:smallwink:

martyboy74
2007-04-15, 08:39 AM
Now, THAT is clever.

JellyPooga- However sinisterly fun that is, It wouldn't work with my world. Ambient chaotic energy circles this giant cylinder, and the phycaltery would be ripped apart by the time it gets to the outside of the world.
Can anything protect you from this currents? Force effects? Protection from elements? Temporal Stasis?

Maxymiuk
2007-04-15, 08:39 AM
Put it in a safe deposit box in a bank.

I mean, the PC's will expect it to be in some exotic, unreachable, guarded location. No one will think to check the local bank.

Ranis
2007-04-15, 08:41 AM
Can anything protect you from this currents? Force effects? Protection from elements? Temporal Stasis?

The campaign setting is a forgotten, unfinished version of the Material plane, long forgotten by everyone.

So, the energies circling the plane are those of the raw force of Creation itself. So, no. Unfortunately.

Larrin
2007-04-15, 09:15 AM
Have your phylactery made in an immovable rod, stuck in the middle of the air a mile above the ocean/desert/forest. Then make it invisible. It would be pretty impossilble to find or notice, even with a dedicate search.

Ranis
2007-04-15, 09:19 AM
Have your phylactery made in an immovable rod, stuck in the middle of the air a mile above the ocean/desert/forest. Then make it invisible. It would be pretty impossilble to find or notice, even with a dedicate search.

Hah! A funny thought went through my mind:

PC's are flying (thanks to the wizard) to their next destination. They see a bird smack into something then plummet to the ground.

PC's: "Hmm."

Maxymiuk
2007-04-15, 10:16 AM
Hah! A funny thought went through my mind:

PC's are flying (thanks to the wizard) to their next destination. They see a dragon smack into something then plummet to the ground.

PC's: "Hmm."

Fixed it for you. :smallamused:

Ranis
2007-04-15, 10:20 AM
Heh, thanks. 'Cept, dragons don't exist in my world. :)

Illiterate Scribe
2007-04-15, 10:27 AM
Go into an antimagic field with a bag of holding. Put the phylactery into the bag. Walk out of the field. The phylactery will only be reachable while in the field, and while in it, won't detect as a magic item. You still can regenerate, however, as the phylactery is in the pocket plane generated by the bag, and so is removed from the field.

Hario
2007-04-15, 10:30 AM
actually there is nothing evil if you put it in a human and the heros stun or sleep the captive and have the cleric go inside the human and perform surgery with heal checks every round, of course if you ment WAS the human than well :/ there are spells that switch bodies for people and a LG character might switch bodies and then have his friends slay him

Ranis
2007-04-15, 10:30 AM
Go into an antimagic field with a bag of holding. Put the phylactery into the bag. Walk out of the field. The phylactery will only be reachable while in the field, and while in it, won't detect as a magic item. You still can regenerate, however, as the phylactery is in the pocket plane generated by the bag, and so is removed from the field.

WOW.

I think this is the best example of telling the laws of physics and matter to sit down and shut up I've ever seen.

Cyborg Pirate
2007-04-15, 10:37 AM
How about hiding it in the body of the lich himself? Unless the players vaporise the lich somehow, I'd think that they'd ignore the corpse after killing him, leaving the phycaltery essentially in the last place they'd look.

PinkysBrain
2007-04-15, 10:40 AM
If the phylactery was in the extra dimensional space created by the bag of holding then you could simply reach in and get it outside of the AMF. It's simply in the bag, being covered up by the bags opening which is an entrance into an extradimensional space, just cutting the bag open would allow you to retrieve the phylactery even without the AMF.

Fredderf
2007-04-15, 10:40 AM
I gotta love the bank idea. No PC would just check at the bank. Ever. Plus there are no awkward situations like the lich reforming a mile above the ground and falling to the ground. Thats gotta hurt.
The easiest solutions are the best. The bank is great, you could just make it a gem, but in the PC's possession I think it might not get to regenerate before it is killed and the gem is destroyed.
Other villans usually work pretty well, especially untouchable villians, i.e. the noble that owns half the city. The inside of a hollow tree in the middle of a forest will be near impossible to find as well for PCs.

Earthstar_Fungus
2007-04-15, 10:40 AM
You could hide it as a modern art painting and put it in a gallery. Say the lich is an art connoisseur or something.

Cyborg Pirate
2007-04-15, 10:42 AM
You could hide it in as a modern art painting and put it in a gallery.

And have it summarily burnt to a crisp by the first adventurer with a sense of taste? No way :smalltongue:

Rahdjan
2007-04-15, 10:52 AM
Combine two great ideas. Inside an immovable rod at the bottom of the ocean.

Imrix.
2007-04-15, 10:54 AM
Now me, I go in for a slightly less exotic method. You put the Phylactery in a Golem, which you then place in a random spot in a desert somewhere, or other equally bleak, large area of space, then you cast Imprison on the golem. The golem is now several leagues under the surface of the planet, requiring a high-level spell to be cast nearby the spot exactly above it. Needle in a haystack.

Failing that, put it in your safe deposit box and THEN Imprison it, so even if, on the off-chance, the PC's search it, they won't find it. Just remember to fill said box with some other valuables to cover the scent.

Ranis
2007-04-15, 10:57 AM
How about hiding it in the body of the lich himself? Unless the players vaporise the lich somehow, I'd think that they'd ignore the corpse after killing him, leaving the phycaltery essentially in the last place they'd look.

This won't work, for a couple of reasons:

1: My players strip everything they kill clean for anything that might be magical or a potential thrown weapon. My fighter has a ream of "acquired" longswords he uses as his ranged weapon. Even if the lich hid it on her person, they would tear her apart trying to find ANYTHING she was hiding.

Even if she hid it you-know-where.

2. My world is undead heavy. Liches are more common than in most other settings, common enough that people who are relatively high-ranked in cities and your average adventuring party know what phycalteries are. So, they would know to look for them.

Cyborg Pirate
2007-04-15, 11:02 AM
This won't work, for a couple of reasons:

1: My players strip everything they kill clean for anything that might be magical or a potential thrown weapon. My fighter has a ream of "acquired" longswords he uses as his ranged weapon. Even if the lich hid it on her person, they would tear her apart trying to find ANYTHING she was hiding.

Even if she hid it you-know-where.

Let me be the first to say: EWW! :smalleek:

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 11:08 AM
Hide it in a box of handwavium.

Seriously... if you dont want them to find it unless it matters later... just had wave it away.

Caledonian
2007-04-15, 11:08 AM
You'd have to put the soul-hidey place into the bag of holding before taking it into the antimagic zone.

But yes, that would work.

Maxymiuk
2007-04-15, 11:12 AM
Hide it in a box of handwavium.

Seriously... if you dont want them to find it unless it matters later... just had wave it away.

Except that the OP specifically stated that he wants to have a legitimate reason for why the players can't find it.

It's the difference between saying "You can't find the phylactery because I'm the GM and I don't want you to, nyer, nyer" and saying "The lich has taken meticulous care to hide her phylactery somewhere where it has an infitesimally small chance of ever being found."

ZeroNumerous
2007-04-15, 11:24 AM
The ultimate answer to hiding a phycaltery? Two things can be done.

One: Make one of the PCs the phycaltery. This is especially viable if you have a sorceror or other sponatenous non-INT based caster in the party. If you really wanna be evil about it, hide it in a Cleric and say that the cleric's divine power was 'borrowed' from the phycaltery. It works very well if you don't ever want them to find it, because what PC would ever think that they themselves might be the phycaltery?

Two: Make it a normal colored, normal sized pebble. Find a gravel road. Permanent Magical Aura shift to Non-magical on the phycaltery. Throw.

jjpickar
2007-04-15, 11:26 AM
Maybe the Lich uses the cylinder as a Phylactery. That way they have to destroy the world to destroy the Lich.

Or it could be something just lying around like a handkerchief or a lamp.

Often the best place to hides something is out in the open. So you could just put it on a big pedestal that has a sign that says "phylactery" on it. It would just seem too obvious.

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 11:27 AM
It's the difference between saying "You can't find the phylactery because I'm the GM and I don't want you to, nyer, nyer" and saying "The lich has taken meticulous care to hide her phylactery somewhere where it has an infitesimally small chance of ever being found."
So... just saying the second one is bad because... ?
If they look for it, put it in an out of the way dungeon guarded by lots of undead/constructs, with a permanent Non-Detection on it.

Enzario
2007-04-15, 11:33 AM
Hide it as a copper piece (appropriately magically masked, etc.) then allow the PCs to spend it. If they ever try to look for it, think of all the ways that one could change hands.

PCs: hey, you know that copper piece we gave you a couple weeks ago?
store owner: no. here's your change. *hands them the copper piece/phylactery again*

Ranis
2007-04-15, 11:51 AM
Hide it as a copper piece (appropriately magically masked, etc.) then allow the PCs to spend it. If they ever try to look for it, think of all the ways that one could change hands.

PCs: hey, you know that copper piece we gave you a couple weeks ago?
store owner: no. here's your change. *hands them the copper piece/phylactery again*

That made me crack up. I mean crack up. Genius.

Assassinfox
2007-04-15, 11:55 AM
Stick it inside an iron colossus. And then paint the colossus to look like a redwood tree. :smalltongue:

Darkxarth
2007-04-15, 12:15 PM
I believe this is from a published adventure somehwere...

Have the Lich make his Phylactery a grain of sand, magically mask it from detection/scrying, and drop it in the biggest desert in the world. WAY worse than searching for a needle in a haystack.

Alternatively, make the Phylactery out of a single drop of water and let it fall in the ocean. By the time the PCs try to look for it, they'll never find it. Of course, if you decide to let them have a chance later on, it could always rain a little. :)

Finally, if you want them to actually have a chance of finding the phylactery they're looking for, make it a block of the Lich's castle/tower, or the throne it sits upon, or perhaps the knob/ring on the door. Anything can be the phylactery, it doesn't have to be cool and unfindable. A couple of permanent spells make it nearly unfindable, and the Lich regenerates inside his own home.

Maryring
2007-04-15, 12:18 PM
Put it inside a locket containing the picture of the Lich and her mother when she was still alive, then use the bankbox idea. Even if they somehow find out that the Lich used the Angelic Savings AS Bank, hiding such an important memory in such a place is quite logical behaviour, and no sane Lich would hide her phylactery in such a place right? Just remember to permanently alter the magical aura and you're set to go.

I don't think the Phylactery can be a liquid. In fact, I think even a pebble is a bit too small. Besides, a little water will ruin a grain of sand phylactery by either mixing it with other grains of sand, or melting it away to a liquid.

JellyPooga
2007-04-15, 12:23 PM
Who said it had to be small? Make it a mountain. Build a city on it (heck, you've got time). Or maybe a monastery.

Enzario
2007-04-15, 12:47 PM
Just FYI, y'all: a phylactery is a Tiny, solid, corporeal magic item. Sorry, those of you who want liquid phylacteries... :'-(

PnP Fan
2007-04-15, 12:50 PM
Lots of good suggestions. . . just a thought though. .
if you don't want the players to go search for it, don't give them any clues. I think their are enough suggestions for nearly undetectable/unfindable locations that any lich would come up with them. Furthermore, the lich would be smart enough to not leave any clues as to the whereabouts of this super secret location. In fact, with another point of intelligence, and a touch of paranoia (which seems to be standard fare for high level wizards), he'd probably leave clues indicating where false phylacteries are located, with appropriate guardians and traps (including a trapped false phylactery) that tracking one of these things down would be nearly impossible.

In short, give your players lots of clues as to where the phylactery might be located, give them a couple of short, deadly adventures along the way, with nothing but false phylacteries, and eventually they'll realize that tracking this thing down isn't really worth their time, not when there's a big cylinder in a ball of chaos to save.

btw, neat idea for a campaign setting. I don't get the cylinder thing, especially when you get near the edge, but the whole "forgotten world in a ball of chaotic creation" thing I dig.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-04-15, 01:03 PM
Enchant the Phylactery with a Permanent Obscure Object (Prevents divinations to locate the item) or Undetectable Alignment. Enchant Fake Phylacteries with a Reversed Permanent Obscure Object or Detectable Alignment to scry as the Phylacerty.

Enclose the Phylactery in a lead lined box (Proof against magic in most campaigns) and hide it away buried 10 - 20 feet or more underneath a modest treasure with a Fake Phylactery buried several feet underground (Generally PCs stop digging when they find a treasure and even the most persistent rarely dig more than a few more feet) near a identifiable landmark of some sort for the lich.

Enchant an item with Magic Mouth to notify the Lich when the first treasure is disturbed.

You could also bury it underneath a Permanent Magic Circle versus good which should prevent good wishes etc from retrieving it from it's hiding place.

More complicated and feat intensive consider using the Nomad "Personal Space" feat seems perfect your purpose. Consider spending a feat or two and take the Nomad "Personal Space" feat/ability perhaps as a Variant Hidden Psi Talent or a second feat in conjunction with Hidden Talent.

Darkxarth
2007-04-15, 01:06 PM
Just FYI, y'all: a phylactery is a Tiny, solid, corporeal magic item. Sorry, those of you who want liquid phylacteries... :'-(

Where is this found at? I've never seen it before, and I might have a bone to pick with a DM of mine...

Bagera
2007-04-15, 01:10 PM
Hide the phycaltery in a prismatic sphere that's just inside a Private sanctum, both permed.

DM: You see a dark fuzzy swirling mass in the center of the room.
PC: I enter it.
DM: Rolls a few dice You died

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 01:11 PM
Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftWondrousItem) feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#hardness) 20, and a break DC of 40.
Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm

Dan_Hemmens
2007-04-15, 01:21 PM
I think you might be making a mistake here. If you don't want the players to waste time looking for the Phylactery, make it easy to find. Otherwise they *will* keep looking for it if the idea gets into their heads. And they'll get frustrated.

kellandros
2007-04-15, 01:41 PM
Um, isn't the other reason for a phylactery that if the lich's body is destroyed, they are reformed near it?

So, wouldn't putting it in the bottom of the ocean, inside an AMF sort of self defeating? And hiding it on the PCs would keep it more secret, until the lich they just blew up reforms right next to them when they get back to the inn? Then again, if it happened in the middle of the night, a nasty suprise round ensues.

How about instead of hiding it, just find a way to make it nearly impossible to destroy or actually reach? Like, say if a lich uses a card from the Deck of Many Things for a phylactery? Force them to have to draw the right one first...

Caledonian
2007-04-15, 01:46 PM
Is it actually possible to make the Magic Aura spell permanent?

Roderick_BR
2007-04-15, 02:21 PM
Make it into a very powerful weapon, so the players won't know that they've been holding it the whole story, and will have problems to destroy it... XD
With a proper contingency to transport it alway from them, of course :p

Justwar.
2007-04-15, 02:38 PM
-One of the PCs picks it up inadvertently and they have no idea they have it. It would be appropriately magically masked, of course, and would be the headpeice for say a staff of some kind, or a jewel in a Helm of Brilliance. Because, y'know, magic items are never more than they seem, right?



I think your second idea is best. The PC's are very unlikely to look for the phycaltery on themselves. It is also probally very safe with a group of PC's. If your players are anything like ones I have played with magic items are valued and well used/protected. It might also lead to some other interesting situations in the future.

Shalist
2007-04-15, 03:18 PM
How about instead of hiding it, just find a way to make it nearly impossible to destroy or actually reach? Like, say if a lich uses a card from the Deck of Many Things for a phylactery? Force them to have to draw the right one first...

But what if the lich drew the wrong card while doing this? *poof* no more magic items...Heck, if I were a player, I'd find some way to get the lich to draw that card right before the fight regardless :P

The problem with protecting via obscurity is that you're not protecting it from players, but from everyone--especially other bad guys and liches, but even things like the elements and wear/tear/random stuff. Ideally the gem can stay where it is for 100's of years without significant upkeep.

But I definitely prefer the the 'cant destroy it even if you find it route,' where there's complications or quests involved that are simply impossible until they get a bit stronger.

-The gem has a 'geas' trap of some sort on it, where the first person who touches it simply must protect it. Kinda makes for a bad day for that well known lich-hunting npc palladin, who's probably the head of some anti-undead holy order, and has the gem set into his famous ancestrial undead-slaying sword by now.

-As has been mentioned, placing it inside a PC with a few hopefully subtle 'extras', like making the character nondetect or 'protection from evil'. Make it so that, even if they find it (did that sword just 'ding' off your spleen?), they can't remove it without kiling the player in some unresurrectable way.

- Powerful holy artifact. It'd require some elaborate means of destruction ('stars must be in alignment, self-sacrifice coupled with high level destructive magic, whatever), even if they could get ahold of it, and destroying it would would piss off all sortsa of the wrong sort of people (Oh, look at our church's pride and joy, the Hangnail of Austinius, donated by a mysterious stranger nearly 200 years ago!)

-Stick it in the belly of a Tarrasque? I wouldn't want to know how the lich got it in there, or what the players would need to do to get it out, of course.

----

Well, you get the idea. Finding it would be hard in a riddle-ish sort of way, but they can't just walk in and smash it when they do. And making the gem's acquisition or destruction take a while gives the lich plenty of time to do something about it when they do locate it later on.

jaqueses
2007-04-15, 03:20 PM
Why hide the phylactery? Instead why not just put it in a small dungeon with some guards. Then find some other small corporeal objects and make them also show up as the phylactery. So if the PC's try to divine its location they get multiple locations and this gives you a chance to tailor their xp, treasure and other stuff.

Hazkali
2007-04-15, 03:51 PM
Okay, so a Lich has to be minimum of caster 11. If he's CL 13, he can cast permanent Wall of Force six times (XP cost 15,000) to form a cube around the phylactery. Make it just small enough to hold the phylactery- preferably no greater than one five-foot cube- so that no-one can dimension-door or teleport into it.

Then, do the same again, but this time as large as possible- preferably 100ft in radius at all points (you'd probably need 24 permanent walls of force to do this (4 per face) so that's 60000xp).

In this larger force box, fill with concrete, (optionally) leaving one 5ft by 5ft by 10ft void (evacuated of air or filled with acid) adjacent to the phylactery's force box so you can inspect the phylactery if needs be. Paint the walls of this void pink.

Use six wall of stone spells around the larger force box to give the impression of a regular room.

Build your tower on top of this as you are arrogant.

The advantages are thus:

1) The PCs know where it is, but until they reach high levels (high, high levels) can't do anything about it.

2) Dimension door will require the PCs to know exactly the position of the void to enter. If you leave no void, the spell will not work and if the larger force box is more than 100ft in diameter then they will suffer d6 points of damage per attempt

3) If you leave a void, no one will expect it to be painted pink inside. This should make any PC trying Teleport fail for having a false idea of the void.

4) If anyone does get lucky, the void is either a vaccum (so they suffocate) or filled with acid (which your DR 15 will make a mockery of).

thehothead
2007-04-15, 04:56 PM
Inside a cesspit. NOBODY is going to look in a cesspit.

Enzario
2007-04-15, 05:03 PM
If you're not planning on dying (again) anytime soon, make it acid-resistant and feed it to a Tarrasque.

lsfreak
2007-04-15, 05:03 PM
I'm going to go with something so common no one would think of it. I'd say the best three would be a coin (very easily vanishes into obscurity, but depending on setting might have a chance of being melted down or some such, plus the lich will have no idea where he will end up), an object hidden inside the walls/bottom of one of tens of thousands of beer mugs (will stay in about the same place more than likely, so the lich knows about where he will end up as he's the one who added the beer mug to the tavern's collection), or a small, mundane-looking trinket given to a child (not likely to be found, very little chance of anyone realizing what it is even though it's more unique than a coin/mug, high chances of getting lost while the child is playing around so that no one actually knows where it is but the lich will still know the general area where he will reform).

Dervag
2007-04-15, 05:11 PM
Can you use people as a phylactery?
If so, kidnap a child and make it yours. No hero will ever slay a child.Bad idea.

First of all, there's always the possibility that a villain will want to kill you. Or that an 'ends justify means' semi-hero will want to kill you. Moreover, there are all sorts of completely random things that could kill the child. And there is the extremely nonrandom thing (death by old age) that is guaranteed to kill the child eventually.

If you're a lich, then you want your phylactery to be physically secure, This requires a) that it not be in a place where it could be destroyed by an accident, and b) that it be somewhere where someone or something can keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't get destroyed on purpose.

Using a random coin in your pocket is a bad idea, because if you get targeted by a fireball there's a good chance that the coin will be damaged or destroyed. Using a living creature is a bad idea, because just about anything could kill that creature unless it happens to be extremely powerful. For that matter, the creature will probably die of old age eventually, and you want to live forever.

Putting it at the bottom of the Marianas Trench or in the center of the sun is a good first step- assuming that you can protect it from the physical forces around it that would destroy it (water pressure or stellar heat). The problem is then that you have no way to watch it and make sure it doesn't get damaged.


Go into an antimagic field with a bag of holding. Put the phylactery into the bag. Walk out of the field. The phylactery will only be reachable while in the field, and while in it, won't detect as a magic item. You still can regenerate, however, as the phylactery is in the pocket plane generated by the bag, and so is removed from the field.Now that's much better. You can keep the bag somewhere secure (buried in a very small stone chamber 30 feet underground by your undead minions), where you can keep an eye on it (somewhere near your Fortress of Dread). It is unlikely to be destroyed by random events, since it is physically inaccessible unless a specific condition is met that is extremely unlikely to happen by chance. And it is unlikely to be destroyed by nonrandom events, since the only entities that know where you put it are yourself and a bunch of mindless zombies.

MisterSaturnine
2007-04-15, 05:22 PM
Inside a needle, which is in an egg, which is in a duck, which is in a hare, which is in an iron chest, which is buried under a green oak tree, which is on an island in the ocean.

Koschei the Deathless. But yeah...kind of hard to fit a phylactery into a needle. You can stick with the duck. ;)

Black Mage
2007-04-15, 05:23 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm

Um, that only says that the most common version is tiny, not that it has to be tiny.

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 05:25 PM
Um, that only says that the most common version is tiny, not that it has to be tiny.
It also says that other forms can exits such as rings, amulets, or other similar items. I dont see hwo a mountain, child, city, etc. are similar to those.

Black Mage
2007-04-15, 05:27 PM
It also says that other forms can exits such as rings, amulets, or other similar items. I dont see hwo a mountain, child, city, etc. are similar to those.

But it doesn't say that it has to be a tiny object. Show me where it says it absolutely has to be a tiny object, and nothing else.

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 05:32 PM
...
It says similar to a ring, or amulet, or tiny box. It doesnt have to be Tiny, but it has to be similar to those listed things. Show me how a mountain or city is similar to a ring or amulet.

Black Mage
2007-04-15, 05:35 PM
It just has to be magical. True, a mountain and city aren't magical, usually, but in the off chance that there is one of them lurking around in the campaign world, then it is a viable phylar..thingy....soul hidey place.

The only requirement is that it is magical beforehand.

martyboy74
2007-04-15, 05:41 PM
It just has to be magical. True, a mountain and city aren't magical, usually, but in the off chance that there is one of them lurking around in the campaign world, then it is a viable phylar..thingy....soul hidey place.

The only requirement is that it is magical beforehand.

It doesn't say that it has to be magical beforehand. Are all rings in your world magical? All the amulets? Then it doesn't have to be magical.

Maerok
2007-04-15, 05:43 PM
In an epic Ulgurstasta (from Fiend Folio). It should have all the skeletons you need; the phylactery needs some protection from the necromantic acids. But the whole process of getting out might be a bit... awkward.

Black Mage
2007-04-15, 05:44 PM
It doesn't say that it has to be magical beforehand. Are all rings in your world magical? All the amulets? Then it doesn't have to be magical.

O_o I double checked...and now I have no idea where I got that from...


You still have to craft it though...what's the DC on crafting a mountain?

martyboy74
2007-04-15, 05:48 PM
O_o I double checked...and now I have no idea where I got that from...


You still have to craft it though...what's the DC on crafting a mountain?

Does True Creation count as crafting? Or would you then need to use Fabricate?

Rockphed
2007-04-15, 05:50 PM
I believe that the appropriate response is that it is commonly a tiny box, ring, or amulet, but that nothing says it has to be. Tiny might be a good minimum size, but nothing keeps it from being much bigger. That statue of your non-undead self is probably just as much a candidate for being a phylactery as that silly box. I doubt an artifact could be turned into a phylactery, but I am fuzzy on the rules.

I do not, however, see how putting the phylactery in a hard to reach place will stop the PCs from hunting it down. If your campaign calls for a lich to show up later, and undead are really as common as you say, just have a different lich later. Use one of the "Hide in plain sight" options, and if the PCs find it, there are more lichs in the world. If they don't find it, gently remind them that they can kill the lich off later as there is a time limit until the world goes "boom!"

Edit: In the Item Creation Rules, it says that you don't need to make the item yourself, but can have somebody else make it. It does say that all magic items must be masterwork, so if you can get a masterwork mountain, you can make a mountain your phylactery. Only question is, "What level is earthquake?"

Enzario
2007-04-15, 05:52 PM
Not sure, but I think there are more specific rules on phylacteries/undead in general in libris mortis.

Destro_Yersul
2007-04-15, 06:13 PM
Here's what I do. Take a standard glovebox. Give it a lead lined false bottom. Insert phylactery (ring, amulet, whatever) into false bottom. Replace false bottom. Insert pair of gloves. Make sure the glovebox is not valuable looking in any way and stick it in back of some closet somewhere, underneath random garments.

the_tick_rules
2007-04-15, 06:29 PM
my idea, dig an opening into the top ledge of the door and hide it there. you check the door for traps, open it then examine the room, maybe the door frame if your good. but does anyone check the door itself?

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 06:31 PM
It just has to be magical. True, a mountain and city aren't magical, usually, but in the off chance that there is one of them lurking around in the campaign world, then it is a viable phylar..thingy....soul hidey place.

The only requirement is that it is magical beforehand.
Answer my question please:

How are a mountain and a ring similar?

Shalist
2007-04-15, 06:45 PM
As far as 'what can be a phyalwhatsist,' some minor obstacle of a lich in a FR triology tucked his soul away in the heart of a dead god, which was basically a huge boulder that oozed condensed magic all over the place and couldn't be destroyed due to all the different dieties and other bigwigs that wanted to control it.

I know books don't always follow the rules perfectly, but I've always been under the impression that liches had plenty of options as far as what to make their 'home away from home' out of. If nothing else, you can always just reduce it in size later on if you want to go the 'obscurity' route.

Edo
2007-04-15, 06:57 PM
Go into an antimagic field with a bag of holding. Put the phylactery into the bag. Walk out of the field. The phylactery will only be reachable while in the field, and while in it, won't detect as a magic item. You still can regenerate, however, as the phylactery is in the pocket plane generated by the bag, and so is removed from the field.Actually, the way it's really done would be thusly...

Take the bag of holding with the phylactery in it, make it immune from fire somehow, and fire it into a brick. Cast antimagic field on the brick. Make the brick into the cornerstone of the Tomb of Horrors.

Then engineer a spell (or just hire a Cliomancer) to make it common knowledge that your phylactery is the block of jade floating in the boiling tank of mercury at the other end of the Tomb of Horrors, cursed so that anybody who touches it will turn into jade.

Silkenfist
2007-04-15, 07:05 PM
I've seen a few nice ones. Here's my suggestion:

- on the inside of a barrel. Make your phylactery a standard small box, make sure that it is watertight. Then break in at a random cooper and install it on the inside of a barrel that is just being created. Monitor the place long enough to ensure the barrel is actually brought to a brewery or distillery.
The PC's, even if they know that they have to search for a barrel, will have quite some trouble to check out the cellar of every Inn in the area. Especially since most innkeepers will likely question their excuse to check the cellar for phylacteries.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-04-15, 07:05 PM
Argh, It's not Phycaltery- It's a Phylactery! "Fie-lac-tor-ee"

Also, Rigel2, I find your arrogance annoying. I don't care how you run YOUR games, but if someone wants to make a Lich's phylactery the entire multiverse in theirs, that's their perogative.
Plus you're being vague yet insistant with your arguments. Define "Similiar" to a ring, amulet, and the like. Does it have to be small? does it have to be gold or other precious metal? Does it have to have a loop in it? I mean honestly. Please clearly define your position before criticizing someone else's views.

That being said, there's lot of leeway for Phylacteries- Please keep in mind with DM Fiat, many things can be done not-strictly-according-to-the-book. (For example, you could give a Lich Multiple phylacteries if it takes the time to craft them. Or have oddly sized/living Phylacteries.)
, which can range from sheer DM cheese (Sure you can make Pelor your Phylactery) to loose interpretations of the rules. (It doesn't HAVE to be "tiny", though I'd like it to remain something wearable.)

However, in my personal opinion, I think most Liches make their phyalcteries small to make them less noticeable/easier to hide, though I suppose it can't be a more expensive item than 120,000 GP (Unless the Lich wants to foot the extra cost, I suppose.) And probably counts as a "+5" valued enchantment, so you couldn't work it into an item that is magical in other ways.


Of course, a suitably powerful necromancer could do this-

The Phylactery is hidden in The Elder brain's Pool-basin thing in the center of an Illithid colony. (Which the Illithids are unaware of, all though they do appreciate the necromander raisng all the dead, de-brained Mind Flayers into the service of the Elder Brain for the sake of the illithid empire.) The phylacter itself is contained, imprisoned in a Magic Jar that is actually a jar in a shrunken Magical Strongbox (Which can only be opened by a VERY precise series off key insertions and turnings and is heavily trapped with mostly nasty "Save or die" spells, undead summonings, disentegrates, enervates, etc. All contained in the other "faces" of the box)... With the phylactery being further hidden in a Sequestered bag of holding in the box, and in the bag is a pair of those fancy "Gauntlets of item Recall" or whatever they're called. So figure out the command word from there and the Phylactery (medium sized "Massive moldy old tome" black book filled with blood-written writing) is yours. Easy, right?

Err, not really- you see the Magic Jar held the motivating spirit of a Flesh Collossus, which was buried under the illithid lair and immediately bursts itself up once it's soul returns to it.

so basically the PC's have to kill all the illithids, then jump through all the necromantic death-hoops... While dealing with a colossus.



But that's not very elegant, plus the Phylactery has to be somewhere the Necromancer can safely reform in AND escape from.

I think the most elegant place would be in ancestral graveyard of a clan notably famed for Paladin and Clerics in the name of good. Not only is it the last place the PC's would expect to look, it would also be heavily warded against scrying/entry (to prevent Necromancers from coming in), AND be a great place to acquire corpses (however hallowed) ready for instant reanimating. :) (Just make your Phylactery, say, the suit of armor that the first Chaplain of the order was buried in, or someting.)


Though the Immovable Rod/underground Void/Coin in a bank ideas are also quite fascinating. Bravo on those ones. :)

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 07:14 PM
Also, Rigel2, I find your arrogance annoying. I don't care how you run YOUR games, but if someone wants to make a Lich's phylactery the entire multiverse in theirs, that's their perogative.
Plus you're being vague yet insistant with your arguments. Define "Similiar" to a ring, amulet, and the like. Does it have to be small? does it have to be gold or other precious metal? Does it have to have a loop in it? I mean honestly. Please clearly define your position before criticizing someone else's views.
I find your annoyance annoying. I dont care how you nor I run our games. I debate the RAW. The RAW say it must be similar to a ring, amulet, etc. Do whatever the hell you want in your game, I literally dont care. However, arguing on the internet based on your house rules is stupid, and people have gone over this before.

thehothead
2007-04-15, 07:19 PM
It doesn't say it HAS to be similar. I beleive it said something along the lines of "other examples are..."

Destro_Yersul
2007-04-15, 07:23 PM
What it says is actually "Other types of phylacteries can exist, such as a ring, amulet, or similar item"

Black Mage
2007-04-15, 07:24 PM
It doesn't say it HAS to be similar. I beleive it said something along the lines of "other examples are..."


The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40.

Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items.


Nowhere does it say that it has to be one of these though.



Bloody ninjas <_<

DaMullet
2007-04-15, 07:40 PM
Tut tut, children, stop all this arguing. It's annoying.

My favorite method is this:
1) Fake your own death by killing a commoner and using some illusions on the body.
2) make the coffin he's buried in your phylactery (make it beforehand).
3) inside the coffin, get a copy of your spellbook (if you're a jerk wizard) and a few minor magical items to make life easier. Dimension Door above ground, and begin anew.

Another good method is to make your phylactery a brick. Make sure the brick is used in constructing the foundation of the new orphanage (that you might finance). Then the PCs need to destroy an orphanage to get to you. Make sure no less than 4 bricks detect as magic, just in case.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-04-15, 07:46 PM
I find your annoyance annoying. I dont care how you nor I run our games. I debate the RAW. The RAW say it must be similar to a ring, amulet, etc. Do whatever the hell you want in your game, I literally dont care. However, arguing on the internet based on your house rules is stupid, and people have gone over this before.

Okay, I'll accept you debate the RAW, fine. Now, could you please tell us what exactly your position is? From my view of things, I'm not so much debating a house rule as I'm debating an interpretation of the rules. I'm just dying to know your interpretation though- Clearly if anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid, you're 100% right on the subject, right? What are your requirements of an item becoming a Phylactery? What sort of things aren't allowed to become one? Does it cost 120k GP regardless of what the item actually is, or does it actually not matter so long as it's a certain size? Is that size relative to the Necromancer's size, or is it the same regardless of wether it's a Kobold Lich or a Dracolich? Can it be enchanted other than the Phylactery enchantment? If so to what extent? Does it have to be practical, or can it say, be a tiny voodoo doll or Tambourine or erotic wallscroll or clockwork horse set to wander underground? Does it have to be applyable to the neck or finger slot?

Plus, to throw out an old internet cliche, "Why are you commentingon/criticizing others about something you don't care about?"


Nowhere does it say that it has to be one of these though.

I don't see it either- though this wouldn't be the first time the SRD has been vague. :P I believe there's quite a room for interpretation in that statement, thus my stand of "So long as it's wearable or Carryable, and also masterwork, it's alright to be a phylactery". I don't see anything wrong with say, a Lich that also has levels in Warrior making his Phylactery his trusty burial sword or something.

Raum
2007-04-15, 07:47 PM
Or make it the keystone in the arch of a bridge. An expensive, well traveled bridge might even have legitimate reason for other magics in the keystone to mask that of the phylactery.

Jamie Fameflame
2007-04-15, 07:52 PM
My idea:

Make the Phylactery a Ring of Protection +1... If the adventurers find it, odds are that they will sell it, or even better (if you make it a higher bonus ring) use it. If it just lies there with the loot, there's no chance they'll suspect it.

Otherwise, you could make it a brick. In the wall of the Lich's mansion/castle.

Or, do your world have realms with kings, etc.? Make it a gem in the ruler's crown, gifted to him a looooong time ago...

martyboy74
2007-04-15, 07:53 PM
Or make it the keystone in the arch of a bridge. An expensive, well traveled bridge might even have legitimate reason for other magics in the keystone to mask that of the phylactery.
We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-15, 07:54 PM
make your phylactraty a gem, use said gem with the genesis spel...the demi-plane is now your soul hidey place...good luck PC's

Eldritch_Ent
2007-04-15, 07:54 PM
Tut tut, children, stop all this arguing. It's annoying.

My favorite method is this:
.


Sorry DaMullet, you're right, it's not worth it to clutter up a thread with that sort of arguing about pointless topics like this. I'll stop. :smalleek:

However, generally speaking, I'd expect PC's to not be satisfied wtih a Dead Lich (since they're already dead) and would probably destroy the remains anyway just in case... Possibly event hrowing a greater dispel on it or two just to make sure the Lich won't spring up while they're preparing to eliminate the pile o' magical bones as a form of trap/surprise round.

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 07:56 PM
Okay, I'll accept you debate the RAW, fine. Now, could you please tell us what exactly your position is?
That the item has to be similar to rings, amulets, etc.

Clearly if anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid, you're 100% right on the subject, right?
Quote me where I said that. I never have. If you cant find a place where I have said that, I demand an apology.

What are your requirements of an item becoming a Phylactery? What sort of things aren't allowed to become one? Does it cost 120k GP regardless of what the item actually is, or does it actually not matter so long as it's a certain size?
It costs 120k just to enchant it. Buying the item in the first place costs more.


Is that size relative to the Necromancer's size, or is it the same regardless of wether it's a Kobold Lich or a Dracolich? Can it be enchanted other than the Phylactery enchantment? If so to what extent? Does it have to be practical, or can it say, be a tiny voodoo doll or Tambourine or erotic wallscroll or clockwork horse set to wander underground? Does it have to be applyable to the neck or finger slot?
The RAW is silent on wether or not it can be previously enchanted (unless I missed something). All the examples youve given would probably work.


Plus, to throw out an old internet cliche, "Why are you commentingon/criticizing others about something you don't care about?"
I never said I dont care about it. I said that your houserules and mine dont matter.


I don't see it either- though this wouldn't be the first time the SRD has been vague. :P I believe there's quite a room for interpretation in that statement, thus my stand of "So long as it's wearable or Carryable, and also masterwork, it's alright to be a phylactery". I don't see anything wrong with say, a Lich that also has levels in Warrior making his Phylactery his trusty burial sword or something.
Theres a long reach from that, to someone trying to make one from a Mountain or city.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-15, 07:58 PM
house rules do sort of matter...since they are normally better then the RAW on things like this, or at least more creative.

J_Muller
2007-04-15, 08:12 PM
Paint it pink, put it in an obvious location, and then make sure the PCs know it's someone else's problem. Have the continuing existence of the phylactery not affect them, and hope they won't care.

martyboy74
2007-04-15, 08:21 PM
Paint it pink, put it in an obvious location, and then make sure the PCs know it's someone else's problem. Have the continuing existence of the phylactery not affect them, and hope they won't care.
And then put an S.E.P. field on it?

DaMullet
2007-04-15, 08:25 PM
That's a bit redundant, since he already did that by painting it pink and ignoring it.

SolkaTruesilver
2007-04-15, 08:39 PM
The best way for characters to never find a phycaltery is to make them not looking out for it.

The best way to make them not looking out for it is making them beleive they destroyed it.

The best way to make them believe they destroyed it is if they actually destroy it.

The best way to make them actually destroy it and still having a phycaltery is simple:

2 Phycaltery. It's allowed by RAW. (Take THAT, Harry Potter!). So they find the 1st Phycaltery, destroy it, and don't bother wondering if there are others. They'll never find it.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-04-15, 08:44 PM
Often the best place to hides something is out in the open. So you could just put it on a big pedestal that has a sign that says "phylactery" on it. It would just seem too obvious.
"You enter the room. In the centre of it lies a large pedestal bearing the legend 'Phylactery. Please do not destroy'. On top of it lies a small amulet."
Twist. Make the pedestal your phylactery.


Another good method is to make your phylactery a brick. Make sure the brick is used in constructing the foundation of the new orphanage (that you might finance). Then the PCs need to destroy an orphanage to get to you. Make sure no less than 4 bricks detect as magic, just in case.
You stole my idea :smallfrown:

But I have another one! Make your phylactery....the Sphere of Annihilation.
"You locate the phylactery. It is a large globe made of dark energy."
"I smash it!"
fwash.
"Congratulations. You're Annihilated."

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 08:46 PM
2 Phycaltery. It's allowed by RAW. (Take THAT, Harry Potter!). So they find the 1st Phycaltery, destroy it, and don't bother wondering if there are others. They'll never find it.
Correction... its not disallowed by the RAW. The intent seems to be only one, based on the "its" and "his" in the paragraph tho.

The_Werebear
2007-04-15, 08:52 PM
The best place to hide on of these is in a place you know you can escape from. I would be worried about the bag of holding one, as I am not sure how that would interact with teleport.

Personally, would make a pile of little boxes that look exactly the same and are enchanted with a Magic Aura of necromancy. I would also have my crow radiate that aura, my throne do the same, random bricks do it as well, and finally, wear seven or eight objects that may be it.

My actual phylactery would be located in my backup lab, which is in a Daern's instant fortress in the possession of an ally, who has the instructions to deploy the fortress in the mountains with no one around if he gets the Contingency Sending that I had set up for my death.

Darkxarth
2007-04-15, 08:58 PM
Personally, would make a pile of little boxes that look exactly the same and are enchanted with a Magic Aura of necromancy. I would also have my crow radiate that aura, my throne do the same, random bricks do it as well, and finally, wear seven or eight objects that may be it.

My actual phylactery would be located in my backup lab, which is in a Daern's instant fortress in the possession of an ally, who has the instructions to deploy the fortress in the mountains with no one around if he gets the Contingency Sending that I had set up for my death.

Brilliant and perfectly legal.

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 09:03 PM
Yup.

123456

Eldritch_Ent
2007-04-15, 09:05 PM
However, arguing on the internet based on your house rules is stupid, and people have gone over this before.


Do whatever the hell you want in your game, I literally dont care.

I guess I took these comments a little too personally and got defensive, and while I won't apologize for the "Clearly you have all the answers" comment, (I still feel you were being a little mean with your arguments) but I will apologize in general. I shouldn't have returned fire like that and am sorry. (though I'm not conceding any of my points, I STILL feel that "must be like a ring/amulet" is still too vague, but let's move on.)

I will agree, however, that making an entire City/Mountain as a phylactery is ridiculous, though if the Lich is Epic Levelled and went to all the trouble of making a Masterwork mountain or city, then I don't think that should be held against said lich. (And it'd be very flavorful- Have the Lich, when dead, act as a Genius Loci for the area he Genesis'ed or whatever until he reforms, or the area is destroyed. Which won't be that hard for a group of Epic PC's able to kill a lich that powerful in the first place.)

In short, I think it's a guideline for a "Minimal effort" phylactery made by a minimum requirement lich, and that higher level liches probably can and do make better ones. (For example, a Egyption/Pharoa style lich might have his phylactery be an inscribed prayer for eternal life on a solid, medium-sized Adamantium tablet in a pyramid in a seperate plane, or the like.)



Also, where is everyone getting the "Phycaltery" spelling? :smallconfused: I could have sworn it was "Phylactery". Is there an alternate spelling in a book that I missed, or is everyone just switching the c and l?

Darkxarth
2007-04-15, 09:22 PM
Also, where is everyone getting the "Phycaltery" spelling? :smallconfused: I could have sworn it was "Phylactery". Is there an alternate spelling in a book that I missed, or is everyone just switching the c and l?

The title is incorrect, presumably everyone glanced up at it to check their spelling, thus they messed it up as well.

Whamme
2007-04-15, 09:23 PM
If you want the PCs to not waste time looking for it, let them find it. Making it incredibly hard to find means they will spend _more_ time looking, not less.

If you don't want them trying to permanently off the lich... perhaps you could consider not using the Lich as an enemy.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-04-15, 09:27 PM
Here's one way to keep your Phylactery safe- encase it in a tiny force-bubble, and encase THAT in a sphere of Iridium enchanted with +1 returning ghost touch bloodseeker... Then give it to a tauric red dragon with levels in War Hulk and Hulking Hurler, and order him to shotput it at anyone who comes looking for it. I think that'd do it. :D

Edit: While placing a fake Phylacter on a pedestal in the center of the room behind the guardian... They most certainly wouldn't look inside the huge and ridiculously cumbersome weapon, and it'd probably be too heavy for them to take out of the dungeon with them, but you never know if they might sell it for scrap or not...

Ranis
2007-04-15, 10:17 PM
Hey guys, thanks for all the replies! I was at work (t3h suck) and couldn't look at this thread due to the caring for fruits and veggies for 8 hours. Anyway.

The BBEG is an entity from the original Prime Material Plane in my world that is essentially a dumbed-down demigod. He would well have the power to move a soul from one object to another (I'm using the Souls as Power variant), and I discovered the spell Heart of Stone spell in CA, and I'm going to have some fun with it.

There is a town that deals with a constant onslaught of undead day in and day out, and this town is led by an epic-level Half-Orc paladin. Whom is the mentor and essentially father of one of the PCs, along with being one of the most influential beings in the world.

Guess who the BBEG got his hands on? Yep! The Half-Orc's heart has just been replaced with a stone.

Which also just so happens to be the drow lichess's new phycaltery.

And, the BBEG has the Half-Orc's heart in personal storage, who is being forced to do things at the detriment to the party for the cost of his life. Good times, eh?

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-04-15, 10:37 PM
I had a great idea for a lich that involved making finding his phylactery unbelievably confusing. Basically, the lich goes on to build a fortress full of traps, a powerful golem, an island full of monsters, a lost ghost ship crewed by the undead, and a treasury hidden in a volcano. Despite the lich telling various people that his phylactery exists in one or the other, it's actually in none of them- it's inside of a magic sword he keeps with him. Nothing too special, just a +1 longsword of defending- the sort of thing the adventurers powerful enough to kill him will take back to sell to an unsuspecting shop keeper for a good bit of gold, but not keep themselves.

Yvian
2007-04-15, 11:11 PM
In a well gaurded castle, staffed with well paid loyal and effective troops. Clear helmets, no ventaltion shafts, etc.

See http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

Daneel the Sane
2007-04-15, 11:33 PM
I had a player lich himself once... He made his phylactery a gemstone, which I said, "That is kind of cliche, isn't it?" He grinned and said, "Yup." Then he started casting "trap the soul" a lot. He spent many hundreds of thousands of gp on gemstones (epic game) and stored them all in one place.
I asked him what the heck he was doing.
He said, "C'mon, dude. Think about it. A large pile of gems, all of which are necromantic magic and all of which have a soul in it. One of them is my phylactery. The other several dozen contain demons and other nasties. How many can they survive before finally guessing the right one?"

I liked it very much.

jlousivy
2007-04-16, 12:22 AM
omg, that's amazing daneel.

and all i could think of was in a permanate ropetrick/mansion/etc or in a grave of some really really important figure that has gaurds.

Dervag
2007-04-16, 02:16 AM
-As has been mentioned, placing it inside a PC with a few hopefully subtle 'extras', like making the character nondetect or 'protection from evil'. Make it so that, even if they find it (did that sword just 'ding' off your spleen?), they can't remove it without kiling the player in some unresurrectable way.But then the lich reforms right next to the PC. Not good.


-Stick it in the belly of a Tarrasque? I wouldn't want to know how the lich got it in there, or what the players would need to do to get it out, of course.Getting things into the belly of a Tarrasque is easy. The problem is, again, that the lich needs the phylactery to be in a place they can safely reform in. Places where survival is impossible, such as the center of the sun, aren't acceptable options.


If you want the PCs to not waste time looking for it, let them find it. Making it incredibly hard to find means they will spend _more_ time looking, not less.If they set out to look for it, they rapidly discover that nobody knows where it is, that divination spells won't tell them where it is, and that they have no leads whatsoever. Hopefully, they'll get bored pretty fast.

Daneel's is good, too.

J_Muller
2007-04-16, 02:18 AM
I had a player lich himself once... He made his phylactery a gemstone, which I said, "That is kind of cliche, isn't it?" He grinned and said, "Yup." Then he started casting "trap the soul" a lot. He spent many hundreds of thousands of gp on gemstones (epic game) and stored them all in one place.
I asked him what the heck he was doing.
He said, "C'mon, dude. Think about it. A large pile of gems, all of which are necromantic magic and all of which have a soul in it. One of them is my phylactery. The other several dozen contain demons and other nasties. How many can they survive before finally guessing the right one?"

I liked it very much.

Very nice. Like playing Russian Roulette with only one empty barrel.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-16, 02:42 AM
Okay, so a Lich has to be minimum of caster 11. If he's CL 13, he can cast permanent Wall of Force six times (XP cost 15,000) to form a cube around the phylactery. Make it just small enough to hold the phylactery- preferably no greater than one five-foot cube- so that no-one can dimension-door or teleport into it.

Then, do the same again, but this time as large as possible- preferably 100ft in radius at all points (you'd probably need 24 permanent walls of force to do this (4 per face) so that's 60000xp).

In this larger force box, fill with concrete, (optionally) leaving one 5ft by 5ft by 10ft void (evacuated of air or filled with acid) adjacent to the phylactery's force box so you can inspect the phylactery if needs be. Paint the walls of this void pink.

Use six wall of stone spells around the larger force box to give the impression of a regular room.

Build your tower on top of this as you are arrogant.

The advantages are thus:

1) The PCs know where it is, but until they reach high levels (high, high levels) can't do anything about it.

2) Dimension door will require the PCs to know exactly the position of the void to enter. If you leave no void, the spell will not work and if the larger force box is more than 100ft in diameter then they will suffer d6 points of damage per attempt

3) If you leave a void, no one will expect it to be painted pink inside. This should make any PC trying Teleport fail for having a false idea of the void.

4) If anyone does get lucky, the void is either a vaccum (so they suffocate) or filled with acid (which your DR 15 will make a mockery of).

Haha, awesome!

Lolzords
2007-04-16, 04:16 AM
Make the Lich's Phylactery a gold piece. The PC's will grab it and mindlessly spend it. Hey ho, the Lich is alive and well again in a few days.

Well, not alive, but you get what I mean.

martyboy74
2007-04-16, 06:43 AM
Very nice. Like playing Russian Roulette with only one empty barrel.
And an awfully big chamber. Or multiple pistols, with only one having the one empty barrel.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-16, 07:01 AM
And an awfully big chamber. Or multiple pistols, with only one having the one empty barrel.

Or a playing it with a glock. Outside of a misfire or jam, there's going to be blood. Lots and lots of it.

Maxymiuk
2007-04-16, 07:09 AM
And an awfully big chamber. Or multiple pistols, with only one having the one empty barrel.

I'd say a comparison to tapdancing in a minefield is more apt.

SolkaTruesilver
2007-04-16, 09:10 AM
And an awfully big chamber. Or multiple pistols, with only one having the one empty barrel.

Bah.. just use the Force, Luke, and you'll find da proper gemstone pretty easily..

ops. I meant a powerful Divination spell. Like a Wish "I wish [Put Lich's name] phylactery or phylacteries if there are more than 1 was teleported in front of me"

Or Miracle, that works even better, and no side-effect

Lapak
2007-04-16, 10:38 AM
Well, you start by saving the world. (Wait, is that in character for a Lich? Well, no one said it had to be someone else who put the world in peril to begin with.) Create a dangerous rift in reality, or set up a city-destroying volcanic eruption, open a Permanent Gate to the lower planes, or find the Tomb of the Undying God-King and leave the door open a crack.

Then use your phylactery as part of the magical seal that holds absolute destruction at bay. Bonus points for doing this in a moderately remote location from your lair, but relatively close to a peaceful and happy place. Anyone who wants to destroy your phylactery is going to have to:

- Determine where you've hidden it
- Get to it
and
- Either give up and go home, or deal with something infinitely more dangerous than you are, or immediate death, or the inevitable death of many innocents.

All before you reform - or before you teleport in, if they've disturbed it while you are away and triggered whatever warning spells you've set up.

Ranis
2007-04-16, 10:44 AM
Well, you start by saving the world. (Wait, is that in character for a Lich? Well, no one said it had to be someone else who put the world in peril to begin with.) Create a dangerous rift in reality, or set up a city-destroying volcanic eruption, open a Permanent Gate to the lower planes, or find the Tomb of the Undying God-King and leave the door open a crack.

Then use your phylactery as part of the magical seal that holds absolute destruction at bay. Bonus points for doing this in a moderately remote location from your lair, but relatively close to a peaceful and happy place. Anyone who wants to destroy your phylactery is going to have to:

- Determine where you've hidden it
- Get to it
and
- Either give up and go home, or deal with something infinitely more dangerous than you are, or immediate death, or the inevitable death of many innocents.

All before you reform - or before you teleport in, if they've disturbed it while you are away and triggered whatever warning spells you've set up.

That....just.....oh dear. Oh my. That fits SO perfectly with what I'm doing in my campaign. You are a genius.

My PC's are going to hate me SO much.

Lapak
2007-04-16, 11:08 AM
That....just.....oh dear. Oh my. That fits SO perfectly with what I'm doing in my campaign. You are a genius.

My PC's are going to hate me SO much.I'm glad you like it. :smallsmile:

factotum
2007-04-16, 11:20 AM
Use the old trick: if you need to hide a tree, where's the best place? In a forest! Similarly, make the phylactery something like a grain of sand (I don't think there's a limit to how big they have to be, right?) and then hide it in the middle of a desert...

Vyker
2007-04-16, 11:31 AM
Hey Ranis, for even more fun, combine this idea...


Well, you start by saving the world. (Wait, is that in character for a Lich? Well, no one said it had to be someone else who put the world in peril to begin with.) Create a dangerous rift in reality, or set up a city-destroying volcanic eruption, open a Permanent Gate to the lower planes, or find the Tomb of the Undying God-King and leave the door open a crack.

Then use your phylactery as part of the magical seal that holds absolute destruction at bay. Bonus points for doing this in a moderately remote location from your lair, but relatively close to a peaceful and happy place. Anyone who wants to destroy your phylactery is going to have to:

- Determine where you've hidden it
- Get to it
and
- Either give up and go home, or deal with something infinitely more dangerous than you are, or immediate death, or the inevitable death of many innocents.

All before you reform - or before you teleport in, if they've disturbed it while you are away and triggered whatever warning spells you've set up.

...with this idea...



-The gem has a 'geas' trap of some sort on it, where the first person who touches it simply must protect it. Kinda makes for a bad day for that well known lich-hunting npc palladin, who's probably the head of some anti-undead holy order, and has the gem set into his famous ancestrial undead-slaying sword by now.

Now there's the additional problem of that Key Item (which also happens to be the phylactery) they're thinking of destroying also having a legion of well-meaning defenders! Even more DM-cursing!

blacksabre
2007-04-16, 12:07 PM
in my world...

Zackerat, was a Necromancer who was evil as he was cunning. He was one of the founding Warlords of the evil Markian Empire.
Upon the free states Lungold, did he unleash his hordes of undead.
The high temple of Geron, (Lawful Good) uncovered a plot in which Zackerat was planning to unleash upon the world a great evil, and was making preparations for his summoning in is dark abode.
They sent the great paladin Brenton the Virtuous to stop him. Deep in the evil ritualistic chamber did they do battle. And Brenton smite Zackerat down, but at the cost of his own life. Zackerat and Brenton’s remains were nothing but ashes.

Brenton’s great sacrifice today is still heralded as example of true heroism to all Knights of Geron, and Brenton is considered a Saint to this day.
His Sword, and Armor are considered great artifacts and are held in high place a reverence in the High temple of Geron


If you haven’t seen it coming, Brenton’s Sword is the Phycaltery, which is protected as a holy artifact by those who would see Zackerat destroyed.

And even if the players suspect it, the permanet Aura spells don't show anything other then whats expected, and lets see how far they get when they tell the Church they want to destory the artifact..

Inyssius Tor
2007-04-16, 12:10 PM
^^ ... wow. I love it.

One thing, though: isn't a phylactery kind of like the lich's spawn-point? It might be a little problematic to respawn, in a severely underpowered state, right next to Randall Jence: Holy Paragon of the Order of the Ultimate Radiance of Pelor...

^ ... awesome. Still a bit of a problem.

Vyker
2007-04-16, 12:19 PM
Maybe some variety of contingency spell to teleport the phylactery to a backup fortress in the event of the lich's death?

Darkxarth
2007-04-16, 12:28 PM
One thing, though: isn't a phylactery kind of like the lich's spawn-point? It might be a little problematic to respawn, in a severely underpowered state, right next to Randall Jence: Holy Paragon of the Order of the Ultimate Radiance of Pelor...

As far as I can tell, the Lich is reborn in a state of perfect health, er, for a dead guy. Now, whether he would have spells prepared (if he was a Wizard or Cleric) is another matter. A Sorcerer Lich, however, is perfectly capable of immediately unleashing death upon his rebirth. Of course, if you're surrounded by holy guardians, priests, and holy magic, you're already at a disadvantage.

blacksabre
2007-04-16, 12:38 PM
^^ ... wow. I love it.

One thing, though: isn't a phylactery kind of like the lich's spawn-point? It might be a little problematic to respawn, in a severely underpowered state, right next to Randall Jence: Holy Paragon of the Order of the Ultimate Radiance of Pelor...

^ ... awesome. Still a bit of a problem.
Per the The Lich Template Class
If he/she dies or is destroyed, she reappears 1d10 days after her old body's death. She gains her new physical form by grafting her undead spirit to a humanoid corpse, mindless undead, or some weak-minded creature within a few miles of her phylactery. The new body has all the abilities and powers of her old one, though any items she used to carry are lost (probably taken by those who slew her old body). Likewise, any spells or effects bound to her old body with permanency do not spontaneously appear on her new one.

Zackerat has yet to be killed, as he uses contingency&teleport w/o error at low hps effectively..

But if/when he does need to get a new form, he'll most likely for evils sake, take the corpse of the last High cleric who died and is buried in the church cemetary :)

Vyker
2007-04-16, 12:43 PM
Oh, that's beautiful!

Oooo! Make him take the body of a saint! Or even better, stone to flesh a statue of their god! Can the paladins and clerics attack what appears to be the corporeal form of their beloved patron diety?

Inyssius Tor
2007-04-16, 01:37 PM
I am so totally stealing that.

(I'm getting some serious shades of Diablo II off the lich's name, by the way; it's evoking images of even more evil things that can be done to that church...)

blacksabre
2007-04-16, 01:43 PM
Hmm, now I'm thinking...evil little plot coming about..

Sorry just realized I hijacked the thread a little..but....

Story line idea..
re-curring theme..:) Since he orchestrated his demise to go from human to undead..He's going to orchestrate his new physical form

From behind the scenes and through intermidaries Zackerat influences his master plan...

Mini small adventures leading to undead hordes..
High leaders of the Church are being assasinated..
The high level ranks get thinned out

Zackerat is "defeated" in his lair, at least he puts up a convincing fight, maybe killing a player or two.... but his horde marches on the city
The party learns through Zackerat's journals that his deceased arch enemy (supposedly) Theus is the only one who can stop his horde and knows where his Phycaltery is
They must resurrect a hero of the Church Theus
To resurrect Theus, they must retrieve item (time Waster)
Zackerat reforms into Theus corpse
Zackerat regains spells to cast contingency illusions upon self to take the from of a Living Theus
The party retreives item and returns to resurrect Theus
They peform the "resurrection" beleiveing it works as the living form of "Theus" thanks to the contingencies becomes alive
Zackerat/Theus commands his own undead hordes at the walls of the city to flee/ vanquished
Zackerat/Theus then leads the party to the fake Phycaltery and destroys it
Zackerat/Theus is a hero
Zackerat/Theus assumes leadership of the Church

Zackerat/Theus calls the party into his private chambers and reveals himself in his evil glory :)..

Of course in the presence of his eminience they would be unarmed..

Olethros
2007-04-16, 02:00 PM
(sory if this is a repeat)
Encase the valuable gem that is the liches phylactery in simple hard stone. Granite or the like. The lich swallows it allong with assundry other items, including some very expensive gems. Alternativly throw the normal looking rock into a gravel pit, preferably the gravel pit will be in a naturally unsavory place.

The J Pizzel
2007-04-16, 02:09 PM
One of my DM's put the phylactery in the hollowed out horn of his Minotaur Lich King. We were all pissed when we found out.

blacksabre
2007-04-16, 02:20 PM
Actually that wouldn't piss me off to much..
I actually feel that the Phylactery should be "obtainable"...releative of course..hard, and maybe have the players think outside the box..but possible....for nothing more then story line intrigue..

Sure, i could have the phylactery be a seashell and drop it over board in the middle of the ocean...

But every good story line needs have closure..

martyboy74
2007-04-16, 02:20 PM
One of my DM's put the phylactery in the hollowed out horn of his Minotaur Lich King. We were all pissed when we found out.
Weren't you using some form of destructive magic (Disintegrate, fireball, lightning bolt etc.)? Or did the horn have amazing 'invulnerable unless directly attacked' powers.

Olethros
2007-04-16, 02:27 PM
Weren't you using some form of destructive magic (Disintegrate, fireball, lightning bolt etc.)? Or did the horn have amazing 'invulnerable unless directly attacked' powers.

There is something to be said for the difference between "the lich is behaving with full rational logic intelegence" and the telling of a good story. Also, the extream paranoia/overconfidence of the lich must also be considered.

Iudex Fatarum
2007-04-16, 03:33 PM
Well I like the ideas persented here, the only problem I see is the arguments of RAW are anoying, the main dificulty according to the SRD for a phylactery is that it must be created by the lich, it even says that the character must create it himself using Craft Wondrous Item. So that is going to be your main detriment in any of this. I like the immovable rod idea, just rule the creature is created from his arm down, and said arm is grabing immoveable rod. also throw a few rings of freather fall on the rod, invisible rings. Then jump. The lich could also do a few other things, including put in a cold place or a place full of electric fields. I don't see anywhere that it says you need a dead body or an undead body near by to res into but the rules are notoriously ambiguous there.

DaMullet
2007-04-16, 03:38 PM
Per the The Lich Template Class
If he/she dies or is destroyed, she reappears 1d10 days after her old body's death. She gains her new physical form by grafting her undead spirit to a humanoid corpse, mindless undead, or some weak-minded creature within a few miles of her phylactery.
Fascinating. In which supplement does is that stipulation made? The Monster Manual is rather vague with regard to reformation.

thorgrim29
2007-04-16, 03:50 PM
What I'd do:
1:Become a lich
2: Use undead minions to dig a tunnel in a solid granite cliff
3: seal off most of the tunnel so that it does'nt seem like a sealed off tunnel (create rock, I dont know), exept a small chamber.
4: Scribe a copy of your spellbook if applicable and hide it in the chamber, along with your phylactery, a few corpses, and a few usefull trinkets.
5: protect the chamber from magical detection
6: teleport out

This can work with a clone spell.

blacksabre
2007-04-16, 03:51 PM
the main dificulty according to the SRD for a phylactery is that it must be created by the lich, it even says that the character must create it himself using Craft Wondrous Item. So that is going to be your main detriment in any of this. .

What the RAW doesn't state is the components required..it just gives the the cost..in the Lich case its 120,000gp.

I rule that the component parts required are the equivelent magic items in value..basically disenchanting these items to harvest the raw magic source needed to create the Phylactery

in my Liches case, the paladins sword was one of the components, nice of the pally to donate it if you ask me..

the replacating the Aura and the sword was easy enough

When players wish to become a lich, similar requirements need to be met...including the evil act...like sacrificeing virgins or those of pure heart ( like a high level pally :))

blacksabre
2007-04-16, 03:56 PM
Fascinating. In which supplement does is that stipulation made? The Monster Manual is rather vague with regard to reformation.


Its not a supplement, but a Web based Article..may not be strictly RAW, but it fits my house rules

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a

DaMullet
2007-04-16, 04:00 PM
I see.

In that case, I feel no reason to adopt it in my campaign. Thank you for the information.

NullAshton
2007-04-16, 04:06 PM
Best place to hide one? Inside your stomach. How many adventurers will cut up a liches corpse to see if he's hiding anything inside of him?

Second best place: Pay a great wyrm dragon to hold it in their horde. The dragon gets money and an expensive amulet, what's not to like?

Ranis
2007-04-16, 04:26 PM
[QUOTE=NullAshton;2413104]Best place to hide one? Inside your stomach. How many adventurers will cut up a liches corpse to see if he's hiding anything inside of him?QUOTE]

Mine would.

Plus, I already decided what I was going to do a page ago; if anyone has opinions about that, I'd be more than happy to have them :)

Habzial
2007-04-16, 05:14 PM
I know you've already decided, but I got the impression you didn't want the phylactery to be significant to the backstory of the game. As such, I'll throw out my suggestion anyways. I'm not terribly familiar with the rules of D&D, so you may need to fill in the blanks.

Put it into any tiny object you want, then put that object in a concealed compartment which itself is beneath a pressure plate. (Who searches under a pressure plate for treasure?) The pressure plate will be inside a small room with only one door and no windows. Stepping on it triggers some deadly area-effect spell which the lich is immune to. The lich reforms on top of the pressure plate, so if anyone was around to see her reform, they would likely be vaporized/wounded/whatever and lose any chance at a surprise attack on the lich.

The pressure plate trap should be guarding something of value, so it doesn't seem out of place. I'd suggest the room be treated as a supply closet and have a free-standing cabinet of necromancy supplies, small magical items, and/or potions in it. Just to make more effective, the room is so shallow at the entrance that when the door is opened, it obstructs passage further into the room. There's not enough space to get past it into the area with the pressure plate unless you close the door (at least a little) first. Make the hallway regularly-patrolled, and it makes sense that someone would duck inside and close the door.

The end result is you have a room the necromancer could reform in safely. It's not suspicious because, as a supply closet, it makes sense to see her popping in and out it of at irregular intervals. Since it's built into a trap/treasure system, she can tell how much traffic the room is getting by the state it's in when she reforms. If she needs to move her phylactery she can get at it easily. Best of all, if you set it up so the easiest way to defeat the trap is putting a board over it (or something), the odds anyone would try tearing it out of the ground are nil.

Rama_Lei
2007-04-16, 05:27 PM
A moose. That's right, a moose. He'll enjoy Hardness 20 and a Break Dc of 40. And it's freakin moose!

The Pink Ninja
2007-04-16, 05:28 PM
Do a Voldemort and have several.

If your world is Liche heavy there must be at elast one Uber Liche who can do that.

Mysticaloctopus
2007-04-16, 06:50 PM
Here's an idea based on a really bad pun. Craft a really nice wardrobe with some kind of magical compartment inside, maybe the mirror in the door leads to an extradimensional space, but only in the dark. Place phylactery and a suitable skeletal minion in said space, ordering skeleton to remain in the space. Now when you die, some family has a skeleton in the closet :smallbiggrin:. Puns aside, this would be great for going in a young royal child's bedroom. There's a skeleton in the wardrobe... I saw it once at night looking at me! Or better yet, child claims he can hide in the door of the wardrobe, quite correctly, but adults open the door and touch the mirror... it's solid, because the portal only works in the darkness. For better effects, make the wardrobe deeper darkness its own interior when doors are closed with the mirror working only in absolute darkness. Sell the wardrobe as having effective magical locks (which are really there) to give a reason for its aura.

Another good one would be to bury it in a graveyard. At six feet under, it'd be harder to detect. Perhaps bury it in a lead-lined coffin. Perhaps bury it with a few magic items or some wealth to keep you going when you're slain?
The key things to avoid when placing a phylactery are heroes and danger. Yes, casting nailed to the sky would keep it safe, but how would you like to respawn in the upper atmosphere? Yes, you can surprise the heroes but you'll appear unarmed and without spells prepared and reveal to them that your phylactery is in their inventory. Liches are greedy bags of bones, so they'll want to respawn within their own lair if possible.

Mewtarthio
2007-04-16, 08:09 PM
Do a Voldemort and have several.

If your world is Liche heavy there must be at elast one Uber Liche who can do that.

I think there's an epic spell for that. It's only around DC 30, but it's still epic.


Here's an idea based on a really bad pun. Craft a really nice wardrobe with some kind of magical compartment inside, maybe the mirror in the door leads to an extradimensional space, but only in the dark. Place phylactery and a suitable skeletal minion in said space, ordering skeleton to remain in the space. Now when you die, some family has a skeleton in the closet :smallbiggrin:. Puns aside, this would be great for going in a young royal child's bedroom. There's a skeleton in the wardrobe... I saw it once at night looking at me! Or better yet, child claims he can hide in the door of the wardrobe, quite correctly, but adults open the door and touch the mirror... it's solid, because the portal only works in the darkness. For better effects, make the wardrobe deeper darkness its own interior when doors are closed with the mirror working only in absolute darkness. Sell the wardrobe as having effective magical locks (which are really there) to give a reason for its aura.

Creepy. Not sure how it'll work out, exactly (you'll have to Greater Teleport yourself out, I imagine), but a Lich scaring kids is pretty... well, actually, it reminds me of this (http://www.superdickery.com/oneshot/61.html), but still, you're a Lich. You've got to have some fun occasionally. You know what would be really great? If you used your Lichy powers to create Enchantments and Illusions that just creeped the kid out some more. Convince him the bogeyman's out to get him, or just make him a little edgy...

DaMullet
2007-04-16, 08:38 PM
The key things to avoid when placing a phylactery are heroes and danger. Yes, casting nailed to the sky would keep it safe, but how would you like to respawn in the upper atmosphere? Yes, you can surprise the heroes but you'll appear unarmed and without spells prepared and reveal to them that your phylactery is in their inventory. Liches are greedy bags of bones, so they'll want to respawn within their own lair if possible.

Now, the thing to remember is, the Monster Manual is surprisingly silent on the issue of regeneration.

In my campaigns, Liches respawn where they died, or at the closest point not occupied by something. Others may have them respawn at or near the phylactery, and in those campaigns, instead of nailing my phylactery to the sky, I would nail an Adamantine Box to the sky, with my phylactery in it.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-04-19, 03:30 AM
Another inexpensive magic method is proofing the gem with a permanent Nystul's Magic Aura or Obscure Object spell (In case the first transdimensional hiding space is found).

Inside a Transdimensional Space with a Contingency spell to do move it to another safe place like a small container (with a Contingency to move that container if discovered) when the Phlactery is taken out of the transdimensional space (Very Likely it would go Unnoticed if Mixed in with a Bunch of Miscellaneous Master Work Items just Enchanted to radiate magic with a Mass Nystul's Magic Aura via a contingency). Have a few more contingency leap frogs in place and that should more than provide the maximum needed 10 days to rejuvenate.

Hiding the gem inside the transdimensional space with a Permanent Unseen Servant to raise and lower the rope based on hand signals from the lich wearing a specific outfit because No Spells can cross the barrier. IMO Lich Rejuvenation via the phylactery is a Supernatural ability like a Ghost's Rejuvenation.

(Creatures (and Objects) in the extra-dimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (text specifically states including, divinations) with an Intelligent Rope Drawn Up by.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-04-19, 05:31 AM
Just to clarify what the RAW says about Phylacteries, since there has been some disagreement:

A typical phylactery is a tiny box with magical writing inside, but other forms are allowed such as rings, amulets, or similar items.


The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40. Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items.

What this means is further clarified in Libris Mortis (page 151):

- "... it must either contain or bear an arcane description."

- It must be tiny

- It cannot be part of an magical item or have magical properties built in.


Libris Mortis also provide a list of other examples.

Lapak
2007-04-19, 09:07 AM
What this means is further clarified in Libris Mortis (page 151):

- "... it must either contain or bear an arcane description."

- It must be tiny

- I cannot be part of an magical item or have magical properties built in.
That part could be trouble for some of the other ideas, but you could just put the phylactery from my idea just behind or within the seal rather than make it part OF the seal.

DaMullet
2007-04-19, 02:32 PM
Libris Mortis is not Core. thus, if one only owns the three Core books, it can be exceptionally large, unmarked, and magical.

Mewtarthio
2007-04-19, 02:41 PM
That part could be trouble for some of the other ideas, but you could just put the phylactery from my idea just behind or within the seal rather than make it part OF the seal.

Or he could just say "Screw the rule, I have DM fiat!" So long as the OP doesn't intend to allow his PCs to become liches, it really doesn't matter. If it's a good plot point, he should just go right ahead and ignore that restriction. If phylacteries in his campaign setting can be made out of magical Seals That Must Never Be Broken, then so be it.

BardicDuelist
2007-04-19, 02:50 PM
I've generally found that the best place to put a phycaltery is in somwhere completely mundane. A safe deposit box is a good idea, but I think putting it in a completely different room in the lich's lair, within a wall (most characters know better than to significantly damage the structural integrity of the room they are standing in). Make sure that there is no reason for the characters to use distingrate in that room and just leave it to be. The lich is even close to home when it comes back.

If you are paranoid about it, make a small room which is comletely inaccessable (the walls were built around it). Put walls of force around the inside, etc. When the lich comes back, he can just teleport out of the room. If the walls are destroyed, the dungeon collapses, either killing the PCs, or at least completely obscurring the phycaltery. It is also a good place to put his "Uber Spellbook," so that he doesn't need to worry about not having spells when he comes back, and the PCs can't get any really good or custom spells that you don't want them to.

Top it all off with a contigency spell (or 10).

Dervag
2007-04-19, 03:19 PM
Now there's the additional problem of that Key Item (which also happens to be the phylactery) they're thinking of destroying also having a legion of well-meaning defenders! Even more DM-cursing!You can apply this with the 'build the phylactery into the seal holding the End of the World at bay' strategy too.

For instance, if your phylactery is part of the seal on the gate that keeps the dreaded Snarl from devouring the world, then the Guardians of the Gate will probably have a lot to say to any random adventurers who come along and try to break it. And they will have very good and compelling reasons to do so.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-04-19, 03:23 PM
Libris Mortis is not Core. thus, if one only owns the three Core books, it can be exceptionally large, unmarked, and magical.


Or he could just say "Screw the rule, I have DM fiat!"

The RAW was provided free of charge and with no restrictions attached.
You can always choose to ignore the rules and make up your own house rules.
If that enhances your game experience WotC even encourages it.

Maxwell
2007-04-19, 08:50 PM
In addition to any of the other ideas you should put in a decoy phylactery. The decoy could be anywhere, but at least semi findable. The PCs will think it's over, but its not. The lich will have the advantage of suprise. Nothing says HA! as the archenemy coming back from the dead...I mean undead.

Ranis
2007-04-19, 09:23 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Silvanos. I would have posted it myself, being an owner of Libris Mortis, but I already figured out what I'm going to do-I'm making it a ruby with unholy symbols all around it encapsulated by a stone, that happens to be in the chest cavity where the heart should be of the most influential, good NPC in the world.

The Heart of Stone spell is sooo great. Teehee.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-04-19, 09:55 PM
How about a Variant "Soul Locked" Template Lich from Heroes of Horror who doesn't require a Phylactery and just keeps coming back again and again in 4D20 Days or 8D20 days if his body is completely destroyed until he Fails a DC16 HD + 1D20 check.

Laesin
2007-04-19, 10:10 PM
What I'd do:
1:Become a lich
2: Use undead minions to dig a tunnel in a solid granite cliff
3: seal off most of the tunnel so that it does'nt seem like a sealed off tunnel (create rock, I dont know), exept a small chamber.
4: Scribe a copy of your spellbook if applicable and hide it in the chamber, along with your phylactery, a few corpses, and a few usefull trinkets.
5: protect the chamber from magical detection
6: teleport out

This can work with a clone spell.

Or Climb halfway up a mountain Cast Passwall Repeat until you are far enough in Cast disintegrate for a ten foot cube chamber Place a copy of your spellbook and your phylactery in the centre of the chamber Cast a permanent prismatic sphere on the chamber Leave, dismissing the passwall spells Cast earthquake, the sphere will protect your phylactery and anyone other than you porting in will automatically be in contact with the sphere

Archpaladin Zousha
2007-04-21, 10:47 PM
Unsure as to whether this has been suggested or not, but if the lich builds her own tomb/fortress/what-have-you, I'd recommend having the phylactery built into the foundation of the building. Simply leave a space in the foundation to house the phylactery and then build the domicile over it. Of course, this assumes you have methods of dealing with Earthquake spells, Transmute Rock to Mud Spells, and careful application of Exploding Runes that PCs have prepared that morning. :smallbiggrin:

Not a Paladin
2007-04-22, 12:04 AM
Step 1: Set up a house rule that Portable Holes create a hole in the ground when placed upon it instead of opening up into a nondimensional space.

Step 2: Make the lich's lair have a floor made of diamond with a layer of paint on top.

Step 3: Place a Portable Hole onto the floor (make sure it is thick enough that the hole has an actual bottom).

Step 4: Drop the phylactery into the Portable Hole.

Step 5: Remove the Portable Hole.

Step 6: The heroes will now never be able to destroy the phylactery without destroying the floor they are standing upon.

Armads
2007-04-22, 01:28 AM
make the phylactery a single copper piece.
Cast trap the soul on other copper pieces, making sure you spend enough money to be able to trap them if they touch it (secretly inscribe the name of the PCs on the back in an inconspicuous way (find the name via divinations)).
Put all the copper pieces except your phylactery in a bank vault
Put loads of cryptic clues leading to that exact bank vault. Make sure it's tough enough for the PCs to make an effort to find it.
Cast sequester on your phylactery and put it between one of your roof tiles. enchant roof tiles with trap the soul.

Sotha_Cid
2007-04-22, 02:17 AM
If you want to stop them from searching at all, why don't you just put your phylactery in some random minor secured place...

And put another lich's phylactery in your dungeon? Just cack one off, steal his doober, and put it in your Big Bad Sanctum. Just be sure to kill the guy whenever he shows up, which shouldn't be too difficult to do to a naked spellcaster.

End result? The good guys get to croak a lich permanently. It's just not your guy.

Mewtarthio
2007-04-22, 10:01 AM
Cast trap the soul on other copper pieces, making sure you spend enough money to be able to trap them if they touch it (secretly inscribe the name of the PCs on the back in an inconspicuous way (find the name via divinations)).

Okay... now you've spent a whole lot of money to render yourself protected from a highly specific group of people. When said people die, you've wasted your money. Plus nothing prevents them from simply disjoining/dispelling/melting all the copper coins (I'm a little unsure of the former two, actually--Can you dispel the trigger item of a Trap the Soul spell?--but the last can be accomplished via a simple Fireball).

Laurellien
2007-04-22, 10:39 AM
And now I present Laurellien's fool-proof way of making your phylactery invulnerable FOREVER!!!

For this you will need.

1) Access to the Material plane
2) A phylactery
3) A zombie
4) A small coil of rope

METHOD

1) Cast rope trick
2) bring the zombie inside the rope trick and feed it the phylactery
3) Cast Imprisonment on the zombie
4) Exit the Rope Trick
5) Dismiss the Rope Trick

You now have a phylactery which is completely invulnerable to anything except a manifestation of DM Fiat or Pun-Pun. The imprisonment imprisons the zombie (and with it the phylactery) far beneath the earth. It cannot be accessed, and even if it somehow is, then the temporal stasis which it is in (and the vast quantities of magma around it) make it invulnerable to all attempts at freedom. Remember also that Imprisonment states that Freedom must be cast within the locale of the original casting of Imprisonment. This is impossible as the locale was an extradimensional space which has been dismissed and thus no-longer exists. Even the lich couldn;t retrieve her own phylactery. The stomach of the zombie wouldn't damage the phylactery as it is in temporal stasis and the phylactery has hardness 20. The lich doesn't have a problem regenerating as nowhere does it say that she has to regenerate next to her phylactery. And there is no way by RAW that anybody could get at the phylactery/destroy the phylactery without dismissing the material plane.

kellandros
2007-04-24, 12:42 AM
Create the BBeG defense co-op?

Get 20 liches to agree to help each other in mutual defense. Sure they don't want to cooperate, and wouldn't mind seeing their competition die, but if it means no one to back you up when the heroes come for your phylactery they probably wouldn't take that risk. If you assume such a group has been around for a century or two, probably the stupid backstabers have been weeded out.

"Congratulations, the lich falls down after that last epic hit. After searching his lair, you find the (heavily trapped) entrance to his treasure chamber. As you step inside, you see on the balcony above you see many skeletal figures pointing wands downward..."

How likely are the PCs to stop and rest/heal/recharge when they just know that the lich will reform soon?

Tokiko Mima
2007-04-24, 01:34 AM
Since you can craft a Phylactery as any Wonderous Item, take it a step further and make it a Sphere of Annihilation. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#SphereOfAnnihilation) Sure it can be destroyed with a Gate spell, but there's a 15% chance it takes the caster with it.

If you want some fun, have a couple Umbral Blots (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm) guarding it. Hide those someplace with an Antimagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm), just to make things really tough.

Or you could make it a simple gem that activates on breaking or being dispelled. The triggered spell would be Apocalypse from the Sky (10d6 to all creatures and objects in a 10 mile radius, no save). Maybe with the Explosive Spell metamagic feat applied?

Ninja Chocobo
2007-04-24, 04:33 AM
Since you can craft a Phylactery as any Wonderous Item, take it a step further and make it a Sphere of Annihilation. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#SphereOfAnnihilation) Sure it can be destroyed with a Gate spell, but there's a 15% chance it takes the caster with it.

*ahem*

But I have another one! Make your phylactery....the Sphere of Annihilation.
"You locate the phylactery. It is a large globe made of dark energy."
"I smash it!"
fwash.
"Congratulations. You're Annihilated."

My idea.

Archpaladin Zousha
2007-04-24, 07:43 AM
If I'm correct, Libris Mortis explicitly states that a phylactery cannot be made from another magic item and vice-versa, therefore, it would be impossible to make a Sphere of Annihilation into a phylactery.

Mewtarthio
2007-04-24, 09:20 AM
And besides, even if you waive that, the MM clearly states that you have to make the phylactery yourself. The Sphere of Annihilation is an Artifact: You cannot make it. You might as well make the Staff of the Magi your phylactery ("Destroy this, heroes!"). Besides, it's not even a real object: It's a discontinuity in the multiverse (the ultimate form of nothing). Even if you somehow managed to get your soul to go into it, there's a reason anything that touches it has a 50% chance of being utterly destroyed forever.

And where do you get this "takes the caster with it" clause?

Should a gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm) spell be cast upon a sphere of annihilation, there is a 50% chance (01-50 on d%) that the spell destroys it, a 35% chance (51-85) that the spell does nothing, and a 15% chance (86-100) that a gap is torn in the spatial fabric, catapulting everything within a 180-foot radius into another plane.

A) "Catapulted to another plane" means "mildly inconvenienced" for anyone capable of casting gate.

B) Gate is a Medium-range spell. At CL 17, you can cast it up to 270 feet away.

Tokiko Mima
2007-04-24, 09:37 AM
And besides, even if you waive that, the MM clearly states that you have to make the phylactery yourself. The Sphere of Annihilation is an Artifact: You cannot make it. You might as well make the Staff of the Magi your phylactery ("Destroy this, heroes!"). Besides, it's not even a real object: It's a discontinuity in the multiverse (the ultimate form of nothing). Even if you somehow managed to get your soul to go into it, there's a reason anything that touches it has a 50% chance of being utterly destroyed forever.

And where do you get this "takes the caster with it" clause?


A) "Catapulted to another plane" means "mildly inconvenienced" for anyone capable of casting gate.

B) Gate is a Medium-range spell. At CL 17, you can cast it up to 270 feet away.

Because the DM said that leaving this specific universe destroys people and objects, and that's why he doesn't just put the phylactery on another plane or something easier. So being catapulting to another plane in this universe is a death sentence in this case and would destroy the phylactery and the caster.

You do have a point with the Medium range. For some reason I thought Gate was Close range.

This isn't a Player Character we're talking about, this is a BBEG and sometimes they don't have to play by all the item creation rules. I wanted to suggest something that made it very very very difficult to destroy the phylactery, but not totally impossible.

Roderick_BR
2007-04-24, 09:50 AM
Or he could just say "Screw the rule, I have DM fiat!" So long as the OP doesn't intend to allow his PCs to become liches, it really doesn't matter. If it's a good plot point, he should just go right ahead and ignore that restriction. If phylacteries in his campaign setting can be made out of magical Seals That Must Never Be Broken, then so be it.
Then you can do like the Lich from 8-Bit Theater, and use a nearly indestructible and vital to the world artifact :smalltongue:

Dan_Hemmens
2007-04-24, 10:49 AM
I still don't understand why making this guy's Phylactery completely impossible to find is a good thing if you don't want the players to spend ages looking for it.

Flying Elephant
2007-04-24, 11:13 AM
Oh, that's beautiful!

Oooo! Make him take the body of a saint! Or even better, stone to flesh a statue of their god! Can the paladins and clerics attack what appears to be the corporeal form of their beloved patron diety?

The "corporal form of their beloved deity" would be rotting, however. :smalltongue:

LotharBot
2007-04-24, 02:38 PM
my idea, dig an opening into the top ledge of the door and hide it there. you check the door for traps, open it then examine the room, maybe the door frame if your good. but does anyone check the door itself?

My party's "master key" is a maul of the titans. Charge + Power Attack + Leap Attack + triple damage to inanimate objects = what door?

-----

What sort of divinations does your party have available? If the Lich's phylactery is inside one of your PC's father, they should be able to locate it using suitably high-enough level magic. If it's a brick in an ancient temple, same deal.

Two ways to make the phylactery hard to destroy:
- actually make it hard to destroy -- say, if you destroy it, many bad things will happen. (Part of an ancient seal, etc.)
- make the PCs think they've already destroyed it -- because you stoled the phylactery of some far lesser lich and parked it in your place of residence. (What's the lesser lich going to do about it? If he threatens the greater lich, disintegrate his phylactery and find a different lesser lich.)

Though, I still don't understand your particular motivation. Basically, you want the PC's to NOT focus on the phylactery because they're busy with some other task? In that case, it seems like the easy thing to do would be to just let them finish off the phylactery right away ("hey look, it's right there in the room!") Unless of course you want to make sure the lich comes back, in which case, just make the other task so much more compelling than they won't keep chasing after the lich. Or you can integrate the phylactery into something later in the story line, so if they decide to pursue it, they'll have to focus on saving the world anyway.

Jothki
2007-04-24, 02:47 PM
If you really don't want adventurers killing you, at some point wouldn't it be safer and more cost-efficient to just be (or at least act) Good?

Driderman
2007-04-24, 02:56 PM
Phew! Just read through all these excellent suggestions, and even though the Original Poster problem already has implemented whatever ideas he/she saw fit, I believe the best solution to not having the PCs running around after the Phylactery while retaining a live lich (well sort of) would be the fake phylactery solution.
Simply let them kill off the lich and destroy what they believe to be her phylactery so they can trot off to do other heroic deeds while the villain recuperates in the comfort of her secondary hiding place built for this exact purpose

PlatinumJester
2007-04-24, 03:00 PM
At the end of a dungeon, sneak off and try and find an underground lake or deep river where nobody will find it for at least several hundred years. That way they will not want to bother back tracking alll the way back to an old location and even if they do they will not find it.
Remember: change its location every hundred years

Laurellien
2007-04-24, 03:00 PM
I still think my idea is the best.

PlatinumJester
2007-04-24, 03:06 PM
Better yet bury it in some random commoners grave. Nobody would bother to dig it up and the cmmoner probably won't have to much to say on the matter.
Two important things though: steal commoners wedding ring and make sure nobody sees you.

PlatinumJester
2007-04-24, 03:10 PM
However if you can find the tarresque attach it under the edge of its carapace.

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-24, 08:30 PM
A few thoughts on phylacteries.

Any of the "hide it in plain sight" solutions would work very well in a "real" world, but PCs know (at least from a metagame standpoint) that a lich is going to have one of these things hidden away somewhere. If all the obvious places fail, they WILL turn your stronghold upside down looking.

So, you must have a decoy phylactery, and it must be very convincing. Which means you need a secondary and effective plan for protecting the fake. The PCs will twig if the traps and guardians are too easy.

This is why I really like the "built into world-critical magic defense" plan best. The phylactery doesn't have to be an essential piece (as it can't have other magical properties) but it can be vital structuraly. For instance it could be a key gear in the elaborate mechanism that keeps the sigil stones precisely aligned. Or, you know, whatever works for your world.

One final thing: where is it explicitly stated where and how the lich reforms? Is there an official source on this? There was some reference earlier in the thread to a lich template class, which reforms somewhere within a few MILES of the phylactery. If that's the case, it significantly broadens what can be done do protect it.

Jorkens
2007-04-24, 10:13 PM
There's one thing that worries me a bit. You've said that liches aren't that uncommon in your world. Presumably they're all fairly smart and all interested in good ways to hide their phylacteries. From the point of view of verisimilitude, if one of them has come up with a near foolproof way of doing so, I'd expect quite a few of them to have done so too. Whether you choose to protect the phylactery by moderate cheese, by houseruling or by cleverness, you're going to need some explanation of why there aren't large numbers of unkillable liches roaming around the place.

Actually the idea I've liked the most so far was making it from a ring or gem and making it part of the crown jewels. Maybe the signet ring that symbolically confers legitimacy on the ruler - even if your players figure out what it is (and good luck getting close enough to something that important to start detecting magic on it without being swiftly ejected from the vicinity), telling the ruler that you need to destroy said signet is most likely to get you accused of treason and thrown in the dungeons - and rulers can be quite good at refusing to believe things they don't want to hear, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Ranis
2007-04-24, 10:23 PM
I still don't understand why making this guy's Phylactery completely impossible to find is a good thing if you don't want the players to spend ages looking for it.

I want it to be there, but mildly difficult to find should they choose to go after it, but after they take care of her, my lich will be fluff compared to my BBEG. I want them to pursue the plot, and to make it clear that it would be much more worthwhile to them to, you know, save the world.

I also decided what I was going to do with my OP; the rest of the suggestions after that are just for fun :)

Ranis
2007-04-24, 10:31 PM
Actually the idea I've liked the most so far was making it from a ring or gem and making it part of the crown jewels. Maybe the signet ring that symbolically confers legitimacy on the ruler - even if your players figure out what it is (and good luck getting close enough to something that important to start detecting magic on it without being swiftly ejected from the vicinity), telling the ruler that you need to destroy said signet is most likely to get you accused of treason and thrown in the dungeons - and rulers can be quite good at refusing to believe things they don't want to hear, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

All of the societies in my world are led by councils; even though the large "monarchy" has a king, he is just a part of the council that controls the city, and the entire process is extremely democratic in all of the societies of the world. The closest thing in Rakbasha to a monarch is the line of mayors in the town of Insipidus. :D

Dan_Hemmens
2007-04-25, 08:05 AM
I want it to be there, but mildly difficult to find should they choose to go after it, but after they take care of her, my lich will be fluff compared to my BBEG. I want them to pursue the plot, and to make it clear that it would be much more worthwhile to them to, you know, save the world.

I also decided what I was going to do with my OP; the rest of the suggestions after that are just for fun :)

Surely if you want it to be "mildly difficult to find" then what you actually want is "it's a couple of levels deeper into the dungeon where she lives" and leave it at that.

Hyrael
2007-04-25, 09:07 AM
But then the lich reforms right next to the PC. Not good.

Getting things into the belly of a Tarrasque is easy. The problem is, again, that the lich needs the phylactery to be in a place they can safely reform in. Places where survival is impossible, such as the center of the sun, aren't acceptable options.

.
Unless you are immune to electricity, fire, and cold, and have an overland fly spell. and lots of time, or lots of teleports. or can cast planeshift. Since a lich is by definition an immortal high-level spellcaster, all these possibilities seem likely.

Human Paragon 3
2007-04-25, 11:08 AM
Couldn't you just teleport yourself (and it) into orbit, then teleport back, leaving the phylactory in orbit? When you reform in space, you can just teleport back down to earth.

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-25, 11:42 AM
Again, the only semi-official source we've seen in this thread stipulates that the lich reforms from an existing corpse within a few miles of the phylactery.

This means a patient lich could simply construct a multi-layered and impenetrable shell around the thing, and STILL bury it a mile deep in solid rock. Putting it in orbit is probably out, though.

Human Paragon 3
2007-04-25, 12:37 PM
Place a contingent teleport on the phylactery so when you are slain, it teleports to a safe location on eart. Then you could hide it in orbit and it would return to eart, hundreds of miles away from the adventureres who wrecked your compound and killed you. When you're ready, put the contingent teleport back onto it and telport it back into space.

Telonius
2007-04-25, 12:41 PM
Can you use people as a phylactery?
If so, kidnap a child and make it yours. No hero will ever slay a child.
Ahhh, the Voldemort Maneuver. Nice. :smallamused:

Kami2awa
2007-06-28, 08:52 AM
Research some magic to make it into a Zahir:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zahir

You could do this with a triggered Geas curse which activates when anyone looks at the phylactery.

Funkyodor
2007-06-28, 09:16 AM
Ok, my 2 cents. As a player if I knew I was going up against a Lich, but not just any lich but the BBEG Lich. I'd try to convince everyone to find it's Phylactry, Phyalacatray, Phy... whatever-thingy first so we can do the dramatic show him we got it then destroy it in front of him so he screams out in dramatic horror as he dies sort of thing. A good fake phylactary, phyalact... whatever-thingy could be a glass-steel object shaped like an animal. Animated. Awakened. Give it a poisonous bite, or something like that. So it's hard to just carry around casually. Make it very magically bright, and hide it in a secret library with some other goodies, like some of his cooler loot. You can also try and fool 'em by having a Manual of Phy... whatever-thingy construction to be found while searching for goodies and have that as one of the myrad of ones possible.

Make your contingecy that if it is destroied, Teleport to your Real phy... whatever-thingy. A plank in a wine-barrel, Spells carved on the inside, some magic items also, disguised from magic, full of wine, in the middle of 6-7 other wine barrels for your living minions. When you die you're surrounded by strong alcohol (If only you could enjoy it) and some of your magic trinkets. It's obvious, and will make the players go 'Doah!' when they eventually figure out where he came back from. (Strong odor of wine from his ragged corpse).

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-28, 09:21 AM
Necromancy, man! Necromancy! The thread upon which you meant to post is located here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48824)

Also, that wine-barrel thing is awesome.

Leon
2007-06-28, 10:10 AM
Necromancy, man! Necromancy! The thread upon which you meant to post is located here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48824)


Seems fitting for a post about the subject matter

Flesh
2007-06-28, 11:09 AM
I had an old character become a lich as it was a home brewed blood mage that was simply overpowered and needed retirement. This character eventually became one of the BBEG in his world and eventually the story came around that the heroes needed to return him to human form. The DM asked me to be evil (and ignore the few mile rule, along with bending others) and make it as hard as possible for them.

First I split the phylactery up into 6 parts:

Part 1 - I attached to the blood line of the human king, they have ruled his world for many generations. When the last true heir was gone the phylactery would show up.

Part 2 - I attached to the "Sceptor of Peace" an item used to ensure peace and prosperity within the dwarven lands. Only the destruction of it would reveal the phylactery.

Part 3 - Placed within a mentally handicaped child who could never age, her death revealed it.

Part 4 - Sent to the beginning of time

Part 5 - Placed on top of a summoned mountain within the lich's property, protected by all sorts of badies, well known that it's there. Mostly used as a trap for Paladins :smallcool:.

Part 6 - No clue, given to his most trusted ally and told to remove it from sight forever.

Apparently the campain was a ton of fun though they died attempting #1 after completing a few others.

martyboy74
2007-06-28, 11:42 AM
Ooh! Lock it in a vault that can only be opened by a certain key, which has been split into 5 parts, each of which represent Peace, Prosperity, Strength, Knowledge, and Nature. Have it so that only when all 5 parts are reassembled in front of the gate that it opens! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikkit_Gate) :smallbiggrin: