Caster Level/Manifester Level = HD: House Rule Ramifications?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

For player characters what are your thoughts on changing 3.5 so caster level/manifester level = HD? This negates Practiced Spellcaster/Practiced Manifester, but also prevents some CL shenanigans. (I'm more concerned about simplifying things and boosting the weak than negating the super strong.)

CL/ML boosts from items/races/class features/etc, such as the Orange Ioun Stone, still function normally.

As an additional clarification/note, this house rule applies only to CL/ML. Spell slots, power points, spells/powers known, etc. still function as normal. Caster level and manifester level caps on abilities (like fireball's 10d6 upper limit) still remain.

For example, a Rogue2/Wizard1 has a CL of 3, but otherwise casts as a level 3 Wizard, but has the spells known and spells per day of a level 1 Wizard. A Cleric1/Wizard5 has CL6 for both Cleric and Wizard. A Wizard3/Psion3/Cerebremancer10 has a CL and ML of 16. A Wizard5/Mindbender2 has a CL of 7, but has the spells known and per day of a Wizard6. And so on.

As for creatures with their own casting (Solars, Naga, Demons, Devils, Dragons...), their casting remains as-is. I also disallow shapechange from granting casting/manifesting.

[jiriku]

Foreseeable:
* Prestige classes that offer a less-than-full casting progression become slightly more attractive.
* Certain shenanigans are disallowed, but likely you have already barred them or communicated to your players not to attempt them.
* Gish builds and dual casting progression builds become more effective sooner and with less investment.
* In fact, multiclassing becomes significantly more profitable in a variety of ways.

[Troacctid]

It would have almost no effect for characters who are primarily casters. They are still heavily incentivized not to drop any casting progression, ever, and multiclassing represents just as serious a power downgrade as ever.

However, it would definitely give a big incentive for non-casters to dip into casting classes. Normally, most 1st level spells are fairly useless on a dip, because they only last for 1 round or whatever. This change would boost those weak spells up to maximum power.

[PseudoPanda]

I can't really tell what shenanigans you are negating here since CL/ML can still exceed HD based off of what you're saying about items and such being allowed. All this really seems to do is negate practiced spellcaster/manifester while leaving every feat that allows your CL/ML to exceed HD as fair game.

Oh and Ardents would have a field day with this

[DrMartin]

maybe consider allowing practiced spellcaster to offset CL reduction of shadow weave (feat) or unseen seers (PrC).

under this rule note that a single level dip in a psionic class is enough to get metamorphic transfer - although i don't know if that can lead to broken things any more than polymorph spells usually can :D

[Sewercop]

hmmm.. I think it would have the opposite effect in my group. More caster level abuse. More levels to stack, less feat cost to multiclass.
It is easier to keep track of but thats it. But that is it.

What abount Binder,Ardent and similar?
What about classes that base their caster level on another class first?

I like the idea, but it opens up for more abuse imo

[Curmudgeon]

You're going to make it easier with theurge builds, getting full power dual casting with less effort.

If you want to forestall abuse, I'd make the Orange Ioun Stones and whatnot part of the overall house rule package: CL can't exceed HD, ever. CL boosters could compensate for CL reducers (Mage Slayer and the like).

[Psyren]

Theurges and gishes - particularly psionic ones - would have a field day.

Martials and full casters - meh.

[nedz]

As Curmudgeon said:
You'd be better saying that CL cannot exceed HD i.e. CL <= HD rather than CL = HD
If you want to create exceptions then you should list them either explicitly or implicitly.

[WhamBamSam]

It would have almost no effect for characters who are primarily casters. They are still heavily incentivized not to drop any casting progression, ever, and multiclassing represents just as serious a power downgrade as ever.

However, it would definitely give a big incentive for non-casters to dip into casting classes. Normally, most 1st level spells are fairly useless on a dip, because they only last for 1 round or whatever. This change would boost those weak spells up to maximum power.There are also qualification shenanigans that might result for dippy non-casting types. The one really significant thing I can think of for this is Metamorphic Transfer, and even that is really only saving a feat compared to a PsyWar or Psion dip. Most of the caster level stuff is already achievable on non-caster builds by being a kobold or changeling and undergoing the Draconic Rite of Passage.

Also, pretty much every build is obligated to fit in two levels of Ardent under this houserule, unless you're also houseruling their Powers Known mechanic back in line with normal psionic classes.

[Troacctid]

You only have 6-10 power points with 2 levels of Ardent. Maybe a couple extra if you're already boosting Wisdom, or if you're a psionic race. That's maybe a couple powers per day, and not high-level ones either. Hardly enough to be obligatory.