Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice Trailer

[Legato Endless]

Apparently someone couldn't be bothered to wait a week so this was leaked early. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF6CJLFpY2w)

Well, Affleck's voice sounds better than Bale's did. Not a high bar to clear, but it's something.

Credit where it's due though, this film looks like it will be even less subtle with it's religious symbolism than the predecessor. In fact, it appears to drive the entire plot.

[Devonix]

Apparently someone couldn't be bothered to wait a week so this was leaked early. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF6CJLFpY2w)

Well, Affleck's voice sounds better than Bale's did. Not a high bar to clear, but it's something.

Credit where it's due though, this film looks like it will be even less subtle with it's religious symbolism than the predecessor. In fact, it appears to drive the entire plot.

Not fond of the look of the film in general

[The Glyphstone]

I do like the new Batvoice. It sounds mechanical, synthesized - like someone who's actually trying to hide their identity while speaking should sound like, not just someone who gargles with razor blades every night.

Apparently the entire movie takes place at night or underground, because sunlight isn't GRITTY.

[Kid Jake]

I'd wager that the mechanical bat-voice will only be present while he's wearing the fancy robot suit. We may get to hear Ben Affleck try too hard to sound threatening after all.

[TheThan]

The trailer doesn’t do it for me. I mean it’s it doesn’t have anything fun or cool in it. It’s all dark and brooding and questioning Superman’s ideals or purpose on earth. Which I guess is what a batman vs superman movie would ultimately be about.

But darn it, I want DC to do something other than dark, edgy and broody.

[BWR]

While I'm still trying to accept Batfleck, I really liked this trailer. Let's hope the movie holds up to the promise of this. Considering how much Batman we've seen, I'm not surprised there isn't a lot of sunlight - guy isn't known for working daylight hours.

[lord_khaine]

I kinda think the movie looked dumb..

Especially since it kinda seems it want us to think that a guy in a robot suit build by earth technology, are somehow a match for Superman.

[Kitten Champion]

Credit where it's due though, this film looks like it will be even less subtle with it's religious symbolism than the predecessor. In fact, it appears to drive the entire plot.

Well, ****.

[BWR]

I kinda think the movie looked dumb..

Especially since it kinda seems it want us to think that a guy in a robot suit build by earth technology, are somehow a match for Superman.

I'm willing to wait and see. There's no telling how far into the movie the showdown scene nor what sort of tricks Batfleck has up his sleeve. For all we know it could be Batfleck being overconfident and getting his arse handed to him, he may have synthesized kryptonian atmosphere/kryptonite to weaken Supes, he may be grandstanding to distract Supes while some other event occurs.

[t209]

Don't worry, I just know the real ending.
He faked a heart attack and built a secret Batman group with former gang members.
Strangely, the trailer didn't forget about Collateral damage or just religious fanatics scared of "new god". Kinda remind me of Miracleman, except it really showed the consequences of battle and the neck-snapping was well made.
:smallannoyed:I hope they didn't make Captain Marvel/Shazam from New 52 incarnation, or that "edgy" part was supposed to be a "Journey of grumpy boy turning into kind-hearted hero".

[theduck]

Honestly, if the movie follows through with what it shows here, I am going to be pumped. While the religious allegory isn't subtle, it does seem apt, and I think it would be interesting to see a more complex reaction to the emergence of a god-like being.

At the same time, Synder has always been fantastic at making trailers - his movies are a little more spotty.

[t209]

Honestly, if the movie follows through with what it shows here, I am going to be pumped. While the religious allegory isn't subtle, it does seem apt, and I think it would be interesting to see a more complex reaction to the emergence of a god-like being.

At the same time, Synder has always been fantastic at making trailers - his movies are a little more spotty.
I don't know but it reminded me of Miracleman's last issue where he became benevolent dictator but opposed by religious fanatics. Unlike many examples, Miracleman wonder if he had done the right thing and better than Snyder's movie (Neck Snap wasn't filled with angst and the consequences of their battle was shown).

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, that looks pretty damn awful.

It looks like they really are going for the straight "good guys fight each other" thing, without even the usual comic book team-up trope of "because they misunderstand each other while trying to foil the villain."

And what, Wonder Woman doesn't even merit a mention? Isn't, like she supposed to be in this movie?

Is there a villain at all, or is the villain just the majority of humanity nowadays being so utterly pathetic as to not be able to accept someone might, just, for a second or two, concievably be not as petty as they are? That someone, actually, might POSSIBLY maybe be morally better than them. (Because goodness me, that would mean they'd actually have to admit they might have to try to be better people instead of saying "yeah, but everyone is as bad as me, so it's all good.")
Because the trailer doesn't seem to show it if there is...

Yeesh. I though they were trying to set up Justice League to compete with Avengers. This is... not appearing to do that. Unless by "Justice League" they meant "superhero celebrity death match only without the humour...?"



Plus side, this movie is going to give the How It Should Have Ended guys YEARS of material...

[Gamerlord]

Only parts of the trailer that really did anything for me were the Superman soldiers (Nice and ominous shot) and Batfleck. Dude looks like a tank. :smalleek: :smallbiggrin:



Is there a villain at all, or is the villain just the majority of humanity nowadays being so utterly pathetic as to not be able to accept someone might, just, for a second or two, concievably be not as petty as they are? That someone, actually, might POSSIBLY maybe be morally better than them. (Because goodness me, that would mean they'd actually have to admit they might have to try to be better people instead of saying "yeah, but everyone is as bad as me, so it's all good.")

I'm sure the plot is going to be something like Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor manipulating Batman against Superman, and they'll probably end up fighting against some Superman-killer proxy of his in the end (Metallo? Gritty Bizzaro?)

[Kitten Champion]

And what, Wonder Woman doesn't even merit a mention? Isn't, like she supposed to be in this movie?

I suspect that's going to be part of their marketing strategy. Ya'know, release a bunch of different cut trailers with a brief glimpse at Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Cyborg, etc. in order to create new buzz with each one - like they've been doing with those awful cosplay images. Considering every announcement from this movie seems to merit its own thread over the last year and a half, it's likely a good idea.

[Sith_Happens]

Okay, so this is mostly just me spitballing, but after watching this trailer for the second time I think the setup for the "Batman vs. Superman" part of the movie might just be something like this:

1. A cult or other group of some sort forms around Superman.

2. Said cult/group starts militarizing.

3. Batman decides he's having none of that **** in Gotham because duh.

4. Superman initially takes the cult/group's side because they at least seem on the surface to be good guys, and/or he thinks he can guide them towards being good guys.

Cue, of course, it turning out after they fight it out that Lex Luthor is the real force behind the cult/group and intends to use it for Standard Bad Guy ThingsTM and/or to manipulate Superman into doing his bidding.

[TheEmerged]

Well, that looks pretty damn awful.

I wish I could disagree with you.


And what, Wonder Woman doesn't even merit a mention? Isn't, like she supposed to be in this movie?

When they first announced that, practically the first words out of my mouth were, "How? What, are Diana and the others going to make a cameo at the end or something?" There are times I genuinely hope to be wrong...


Is there a villain at all, or is the villain...

I'm going to sound cynical, but this time I don't care. Apparently the villain is going to be any hope that DC understands why we like superhero movies.


Plus side, this movie is going to give the How It Should Have Ended guys YEARS of material...

I only have one response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQPYAhcEhlo) to that.

[Aotrs Commander]

I wish I could disagree with you.

I do too...!


I only have one response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQPYAhcEhlo) to that.

The sad thing is, that's actually better than the real trailers...

[Mystic Muse]

The sad thing is, that's actually better than the real trailers...

Now, THAT I would watch. :smallbiggrin:

[Nerd-o-rama]

This looks like pretty much everything I've hated about the last few Batman and Superman adaptations.

Yeah, I'm gonna be over here in the Funvee watching Age of Ultron, sorry.

[TheThan]

This looks like pretty much everything I've hated about the last few Batman and Superman adaptations.

Yeah, I'm gonna be over here in the Funvee watching Age of Ultron, sorry.

Does the Funvee have room for one more?

[t209]

Does the Funvee have room for one more?
Add one for me too. I will definitely pick the movie's Scarlet Witch over the comics since the latter is unsympathetic (even speaking as an Avengers fan, though I was part of 90's X-Men craze as a child) for exterminating the mutants (granted that she depowered them but some died mid-flight or something) in fit of nervous breakdown.

[turkishproverb]

Does the Funvee have room for one more?

Don't make us put you in the Humdrumvee.

[TheThan]

Don't make us put you in the Humdrumvee.

I don't want to be in the humdrumvee.

[Drascin]

Now, THAT I would watch. :smallbiggrin:

Yesterday I was pointed at a Twitter comment that kind of nailed it. "How the heck do movies seem to have an easier time portraying Magneto and Xavier as friends than Batman and Superman?"

[Killer Angel]

Especially since it kinda seems it want us to think that a guy in a robot suit build by earth technology, are somehow a match for Superman.

At least, in Dark Knight Returns, was made with style.


Well, that looks pretty damn awful.

(snip)

Yeesh. I though they were trying to set up Justice League to compete with Avengers. This is... not appearing to do that. Unless by "Justice League" they meant "superhero celebrity death match only without the humour...?"


I like to thank AC, for saying the things I was thinking, in a better way that i could.

[SaintRidley]

I suspect that's going to be part of their marketing strategy. Ya'know, release a bunch of different cut trailers with a brief glimpse at Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Cyborg, etc. in order to create new buzz with each one - like they've been doing with those awful cosplay images. Considering every announcement from this movie seems to merit its own thread over the last year and a half, it's likely a good idea.

I think the reason every announcement merits its own thread is more due to the fact that they don't generate enough interest to last long enough not to fall past the necromancy threshold by the time the next announcement happens.

The trailer doesn't really give much to work with or get excited over. But given Man of Steel, it's hard to imagine what about it would be worth getting excited over anyway.

[Kitten Champion]

Yesterday I was pointed at a Twitter comment that kind of nailed it. "How the heck do movies seem to have an easier time portraying Magneto and Xavier as friends than Batman and Superman?"

It's true, generally the X-Men film franchise has done a good job presenting the fact that Magneto and Xavier can't see eye-to-eye as something that's tragic. They're very similar men who fundamentally understand and respect one another, but with differing ideologies that are inevitably at odds with one another.

Whereas Batman and Superman are the opposite - they have more differing temperaments than ideologies. The few times I've seen a Batman/Superman conflict written well it was with... ya'know, verbal arguments. Since Clark isn't a bully and Bruce isn't an idiot. But this film appears to be going for the more Miller-esque versions of the characters, so the skies the limit to how far they'll be out of their most long-established characterization.


I think the reason every announcement merits its own thread is more due to the fact that they don't generate enough interest to last long enough not to fall past the necromancy threshold by the time the next announcement happens.


True, those announcements were rather sporadic. Though, it is sad from my perspective that each thread has successfully reduced my hopes that, maybe, just maybe, it isn't going to be as bad as it first seemed.

[lord_khaine]

At least, in Dark Knight Returns, was made with style.

And there is only worked because a friendship of a lifetime kept Clark from really wanting to do the fight. He tanked though everything Bruce threw at him while trying to reason with him, then gave up on it and began peeling the suit apart.

Without a very good reason for Clark wanting to talk things out, and a source of kryptonite, then this would be about as futile as trying to just use a tank or an attack helicopter.

[BWR]

People are talking as though there will be a big punch-fest between Batfleck and MoSupes. Is there any reason to believe this? We see the two face each other and Batfleck says Superman will bleed. That is all. No offensive stances, no punches thrown, no Supes turning Batfleck into paste - nothing.

[Anteros]

Yesterday I was pointed at a Twitter comment that kind of nailed it. "How the heck do movies seem to have an easier time portraying Magneto and Xavier as friends than Batman and Superman?"

Well Batman and Superman haven't been in a movie together before so...

[Ebon_Drake]

People are talking as though there will be a big punch-fest between Batfleck and MoSupes. Is there any reason to believe this? We see the two face each other and Batfleck says Superman will bleed. That is all. No offensive stances, no punches thrown, no Supes turning Batfleck into paste - nothing.

I have a suspicion that the "Do you bleed? You will" bit has been taken out of context, and in the actual movie it will be Batman warning Superman rather than threatening him. It's a thin hope, but I'll cling to it until I'm proven wrong.

I'm loving how much Batfleck's anti-Superman armour looks like a live action version of Lego Batman. As if I didn't have enough reasons to keep shouting "DARKNESS! NO PARENTS!" whenever I see something about this movie.

[Killer Angel]

And there is only worked because a friendship of a lifetime kept Clark from really wanting to do the fight. He tanked though everything Bruce threw at him while trying to reason with him, then gave up on it and began peeling the suit apart.

Without a very good reason for Clark wanting to talk things out, and a source of kryptonite, then this would be about as futile as trying to just use a tank or an attack helicopter.

And all of this, despite being weakened by the nuclear missile.


People are talking as though there will be a big punch-fest between Batfleck and MoSupes. Is there any reason to believe this? We see the two face each other and Batfleck says Superman will bleed. That is all. No offensive stances, no punches thrown, no Supes turning Batfleck into paste - nothing.

So, the trailer is tricking us into believe they will fight, but they will not? not a big chance, but could be.

[BWR]

So, the trailer is tricking us into believe they will fight, but they will not? not a big chance, but could be.

Getting the two to fight physically requires Batman to be unbelievably stupid (he saw what Clark and Zod did to a city - I don't think he's going think he he can go mano a mano with that BECAUSE HE'S BATMAN!) or think he has a silver bullet. They could go for a modified TDKR battle with bat power armor and synthetic kryptonian atmosphere/kryptonite, I suppose, but I there are too many variables in that plan - what's to say Supes doesn't just vaporize Batfleck from across the room?

More likely the armor is just insurance in case something bad happens, in hopes that Batfleck can survive a blow and talk his way out of things.

My personal hypothesis about the movie is that with Lex in charge, maybe behind the scenes, maybe leading the scene, an anti-Superman movement protests his presence and existence and secrecy, and Batman initially agrees that at the very least he is a serious potential threat (a god that no one can stop if he turns bad). Some manipulating of both sides makes Superman make some bad mistakes or seem to make mistakes that turn people against him in general, including convincing Batman that something needs to be done. The two face off, some misunderstandings go, a failed plot to kill one or both and they realize someone else is making things worse than they need to be, and they kiss and make up and foil Lex's plan. Then other supers come out of the woodwork in a minute long cameo at the end.

Of course that could just be wishful thinking. In any case, I seem to be one of the few people (only?) around here that actually liked MoS, and what little we've seen of Batfleck so far is far better than I feared, so I'm optimistic, based on what we have seen so far. Unlike other big franchises with new movies coming out, I'm actually excited rather than indifferent or dreading grace disappointment.

[Aotrs Commander]

Yesterday I was pointed at a Twitter comment that kind of nailed it. "How the heck do movies seem to have an easier time portraying Magneto and Xavier as friends than Batman and Superman?"

That...

Wow.

I have never thought of it that way before.

That's... several kinds of disturbing.


I like to thank AC, for saying the things I was thinking, in a better way that i could.

*tips helmet*




People are talking as though there will be a big punch-fest between Batfleck and MoSupes. Is there any reason to believe this? We see the two face each other and Batfleck says Superman will bleed. That is all. No offensive stances, no punches thrown, no Supes turning Batfleck into paste - nothing.

I think it's that, AND the "vs" part of the title and the fact they are "taking insiration" from the Dark Knight Returns. And now it seems the central conflict is about Superman... They're pushing the "they're going to fight" angle PRETTY hard if they're just trying to do a bit of a fake out.

I mean, they might - this all might be a bit of carefully selected not-quite-disinformation to keep the real plot secret (I wasn't struck by the first trailer for Avengers 2 because it seemed to be lacking the humour elements, but then the second trailer came out and it was all good again.) And, if they are, fair play to them: I would like to hope they are actually, as I'd much rather have to eat my helmet (again) when it turns out to be completely not what they've foreshadowed than be proven that they're actually just playing it all straight.

Sadly, the tone of the previous DC movies (save Green Lanturn, which everyone but me hated) seems to indicate its more the latter.




I'm loving how much Batfleck's anti-Superman armour looks like a live action version of Lego Batman. As if I didn't have enough reasons to keep shouting "DARKNESS! NO PARENTS!" whenever I see something about this movie.

Pahahahahahahahaha!

Oh dear.

Oh deary deary dear.

Somehow, that suddenly makes it slightly better.

If they have Ben affleck singing "Everything is Batman!" I will seriously take back every bad thing I've said about the movie...

[Eldan]

I'd be so down for a live action Lego Batman movie.

[Mystic Muse]

Sadly, the tone of the previous DC movies (save Green Lanturn, which everyone but me hated) seems to indicate its more the latter.




I didn't hate it! Heck, I'd totally sit down and watch it again. Maybe not a favorite, but I'd take it over Man of Steel an day of the week.

[Metahuman1]

If Aflecks smart and really did take over the movie set in a fit of professionalism and dignity and utter insult at what Miller and Noland and Snyder and Goyer wanted to do with this movie, as rumor suggests and I pray is true, then you might get him quietly musing that aloud to Alfred as the pair banter. And that would be amazing.

[theNater]

It looks like no one has linked the darkness no parents version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMI6B734Ew4) yet. Thought I should fix that.

On the original version, the thing that bothers me most is about 40 seconds in when we hear "Maybe he's just a guy trying to do the right thing." "We know better now, don't we?" The juxtaposition is clearly intended to make it sound like the latter is a response to the former. My problem is that I don't see anything in the trailer that clearly demonstrates that he really is just a guy trying to do the right thing. It leads to a feeling that we're supposed to agree with the second voice; that we, the audience, know better than to think somebody might just be a good person.

[lord_khaine]

I'd be so down for a live action Lego Batman movie.

You mean like done in the old fashioned stop-motion technique..? :smallconfused:

[Legato Endless]

People are talking as though there will be a big punch-fest between Batfleck and MoSupes. Is there any reason to believe this? We see the two face each other and Batfleck says Superman will bleed. That is all. No offensive stances, no punches thrown, no Supes turning Batfleck into paste - nothing.

I can definite see a scene where this is Batman informing Supes that he's not so invincible, and could do so for a number of reasons that would based on his lack of acquaintance and information make a lot more rational sense then let's fight. However, this precludes one thing.

Snyder likes breathing. There are vast swaths of the internet, dedicated, and with a very established purchasing power that DC abides with, how would be absolutely infuriated if after all this tease the film doesn't go full slugfest with Batman knocking the Man of Steel around and at least giving him a run for his money. Also, I rather suspect this film will attempt to have at least one set piece of comparable length to the Metropolis massacre in the prequel. It probably won't be on the same scale considering the reaction from various corners to Superman's fight with Zodd was a misbegotten attempt to take Godzilla's established role within the urban landscape, but it will still definitely be a major point in the film.


I didn't hate it! Heck, I'd totally sit down and watch it again. Maybe not a favorite, but I'd take it over Man of Steel an day of the week.

I wouldn't. Green Lantern is for my money the absolute bottom of the barrel for the most recent batch of Superhero movies. I don't think I've seen a movie in the last decade with a worse Act structuring.

[Sith_Happens]

So I just noticed that the kneeling soldiers at 0:40 have Superman's insignia on their shoulders. I'd say that means the chances of--


Okay, so this is mostly just me spitballing, but after watching this trailer for the second time I think the setup for the "Batman vs. Superman" part of the movie might just be something like this:

1. A cult or other group of some sort forms around Superman.

2. Said cult/group starts militarizing.

3. Batman decides he's having none of that **** in Gotham because duh.

4. Superman initially takes the cult/group's side because they at least seem on the surface to be good guys, and/or he thinks he can guide them towards being good guys.

Cue, of course, it turning out after they fight it out that Lex Luthor is the real force behind the cult/group and intends to use it for Standard Bad Guy ThingsTM and/or to manipulate Superman into doing his bidding.

--just went up astronomically.

[Eldan]

You mean like done in the old fashioned stop-motion technique..? :smallconfused:

No, I just mean a live-action movie, taking the character of Lego Batman as an inspiration for the script.

[The Glyphstone]

Can I hold out hope that Superman will ask, "Who do you think you are?" and get the answer "I'm the god-damned Batman!"?:smallsmile:

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Just remember... (man I'm laughing typing this) no kryptonite in this world, but the atmosphere of krypton weakened him... (he he he) so in an aerosol form it would be a bat anti krypton spray...

[Cizak]

Is there a villain at all, or is the villain just the majority of humanity nowadays being so utterly pathetic as to not be able to accept someone might, just, for a second or two, concievably be not as petty as they are? That someone, actually, might POSSIBLY maybe be morally better than them. (Because goodness me, that would mean they'd actually have to admit they might have to try to be better people instead of saying "yeah, but everyone is as bad as me, so it's all good.")
Because the trailer doesn't seem to show it if there is...

Why would that be so horrible? That is probably how many, if not most, people would behave if Superman was real. I would be very interested in seeing this kind of thing being the focus of the movie. The best Superman stories in my eyes are not about the villains, after all, but about Supes himself.

[Anteros]

Why would that be so horrible? That is probably how many, if not most, people would behave if Superman was real. I would be very interested in seeing this kind of thing being the focus of the movie. The best Superman stories in my eyes are not about the villains, after all, but about Supes himself.

Because anything except the 80s cheesy over the top goody two-shoes Superman from everyone's childhood is not acceptable apparently.

[Lord Raziere]

So I just noticed that the kneeling soldiers at 0:40 have Superman's insignia on their shoulders. I'd say that means the chances of--



--just went up astronomically.

....I'm pretty sure that Superman wouldn't like these guys in fact.

I mean, Superman is a boy scout paladin who wants the best for people right? so why would accept some worshipping cult, when he probably doesn't want to be seen as a thing of worship? because I don't think Superman does. he wants to be a good example, not a divine figure. I'm sure the real Superman would be like
"Cut this out. Now. if you want to do good, there are some charities that I can direct you to...."

Accepting worship wouldn't be Setting A Good Example, it would be becoming a Celebrity for people to fawn and joke over, at best. This is out of character for Superman.

[Kid Jake]

Accepting worship wouldn't be Setting A Good Example, it would be becoming a Celebrity for people to fawn and joke over, at best. This is out of character for Superman.

Sort of like snapping a man's neck or standing by and watching while his dad got tornado'd to death? :smallconfused:

[Lord Raziere]

Sort of like snapping a man's neck or standing by and watching while his dad got tornado'd to death? :smallconfused:

ok, I may not watched that movie because it was horrible, but I did watch a review of it that discussed it. snapping of the man's neck? 1. that was to kill a guy who would've killed some innocent people if he didn't act and 2. Superman has killed some of enemies in the past, I remember nerds who follow that sort of thing saying he did, but I personally don't. but leaving his father to die is pretty much completely out of character. mostly because y'know: his father? kind of raised him? supposed to hold himself to a higher standard?

Please don't pull me into this anymore. I don't like Superman, but I dislike characters being derailed even more. Thats my reasons for this, thats all I'm going to say.

[lord_khaine]

ok, I may not watched that movie because it was horrible, but I did watch a review of it that discussed it. snapping of the man's neck? 1. that was to kill a guy who would've killed some innocent people if he didn't act and 2. Superman has killed some of enemies in the past, I remember nerds who follow that sort of thing saying he did, but I personally don't. but leaving his father to die is pretty much completely out of character. mostly because y'know: his father? kind of raised him? supposed to hold himself to a higher standard?


Oh yeah i personally agree on the killing Zod part.. it is actually something he has ended up doing in a comic as well.. just because he came to accept that there were no sure way to contain a fellow kryptonian for long, and Zod would start killing again as soon as he broke loose.

The tornado thing on the other hand is one of the most stupid things i have seen in a very long time, and just hearing about it is enough to make me smack my face into a nearby wall.
To start with because it were completely unnececary.. he can move faster than the eye can follow and it were complete chaos there..

[Cizak]

Sort of like snapping a man's neck or standing by and watching while his dad got tornado'd to death? :smallconfused:

Whenever someone criticizes the neck snap, I always have the same question: Where you so angry over it that you immediately walked out of the theater and missed the part five seconds later where he dropped to his knees and screamed in agony and self hate?

[Quild]

I, for one, like this trailer.

I'm not really fond of Affleck in Bruce Wayne because he doesn't seem old enough to me and more over, not "big" enough (old Bruce Wayne in Batman Beyond or Dark Knight Returns is more impressive).

But as Batman in the armor, he's impressive!

I liked the statue with the "False God" on it.

Not sure what to think about the "cult".

[Metahuman1]

To which I respond "No, and I stayed long enough that after his ten seconds of agony he was 100% fine, destroying government property just for attention and telling the general "Hey, just blindly trust me cause I said so and stop trying to learn about me.".".


It's not so much that he killed Zod. It's that the movie was contrived during the writing of the script to make sure that the neck snap in particular was the ONLY possible outcome form the start, to the point that several people had to do some truly stupid and internally inconsistent things to make that happen. And that afterwords, the reaction was basically none existent to him. Ten seconds of being upset, then he's 100% fine again.



And that it came on the heels of "What was I suppose to do, let them die?!" "Maybe." and a number of other utterly stupid and incipient bits. (His utter fail at trying to save anyone other then Guardian, his mother and Lois during any of the fights up to that point, vandalizing the truckers truck for pushing him, the Tornado, the list goes on and on.)




Edit: As for the Cult, Lord Raz has the right of it. A properly written superman would be vocally opposed to it on any media outlet that would listen to him for half a second and would have no problem going to them in person, privetly and publicly, and telling them "No, I am not a god, stand up, do not bow to me. I'm trying to help, I'm trying to do right, I don't need worship or praise to do so, so stop offering it. If that's moved you to do good, great, here are some charitys you can participate in volunteering for, but don't go around doing the vigilantly deal because of me."

Though now that It's mentioned I'm not sure if that's ever been a thing that happened in the comics. *Signs the Fan signal.*. Maybe Fan knows.

[BannedInSchool]

Only the True Superman would deny his divinity! :smallbiggrin:

[Quild]

I wonder if some of the ones complaining about Superman killing Zod in the movie are the same than the ones complaining about Batman not killing the Joker and being responsible of whoever the Joker kills.

I don't remember the scene exactly but I think I agree with Metahuman1 when he says that in order to have Superman forced to kill Zod, the movie makes some characters doing some stupid things. IIRC, stupid things would involve not moving from the slowly incoming laserbeam.

Before someone try to explain me how you can get paralyzed by terror and lack to act in a way that would actually make the thing less dangerous and terrifying... I'm aware of that. But there is like half a dozen person, come on.


I think Man of Steel had good things. I remember a lot of **** (especially the whole Krypton part, especially Russel Crowe and his dragon), but Henry Cavill was good and really looked liked Reeve in some shots. And since it was way better than the 3 Batman we had before that, I was fine with it.

[Metahuman1]

See, now, if they had the sense to play it for laughs in a sequence were he's trying to talk these people out of this idea. And there not listing because he's making the small mistake of crediting them with average amounts of intelligence and common sense. And the whole thing was an obvious comedy bit, THAT would work. That would be ok, cause now were having fun with it.




Edit: Superman also could have just flow backwords and to the other side a bit and gotten him clear of them that way. Just saying.

[Quild]

See, now, if they had the sense to play it for laughs in a sequence were he's trying to talk these people out of this idea. And there not listing because he's making the small mistake of crediting them with average amounts of intelligence and common sense. And the whole thing was an obvious comedy bit, THAT would work. That would be ok, cause now were having fun with it.
Talking about the cult? What tell you this won't happen?

It really reminds me a scene of No Man's Land where Superman goes to Gotham to restore the power plant with the aid of an engineer.
While Superman is fixing heavy things damaged by the earthquake, a lot of citizens goes to the engineer, wanting him to be a "boss" the same way that Penguin or Scarface are. Some bullies wants to be his enforcers without him having a word to say about it. And the citizens pay tribute as a payment for him providing electricity even if he's willing to do it for free and wants none of this.

He does not manage to explain them that it is not as it works and Superman can't either. Superman finally forfeits and leaves Gotham (and I believe the power plant is damaged again, not sure).


But there's no comedy in it, just tragedy.

[Metahuman1]

That's a Batman plotline. And it's Gothem, a city canonically cursed by Darksied, the forces of Hell and that darker side of magic in universe.


Take that sequence outside of Gothem and it could very easily be turned into a cross between "I'm not the messiah" and "Who's on first?!".

[theNater]

That is probably how many, if not most, people would behave if Superman was real.
I'm gonna try something I haven't seen before. I'm gonna disagree with this sentiment.

Superman, or at least "80s cheesy over the top goody two-shoes Superman from everyone's childhood", actually is what many politicians carefully craft their public image to appear to be. He's friendly, courteous, humble, compassionate, smart, and honest. This will result in him being intensely charming and likable. If his first public appearance is rescuing people from an accident, then he spends some time performing random acts of kindness, the overwhelming response will be curiosity and pleasant bemusement. He'll likely get the occasional human interest story in the news: "and in other news, we've got a little footage of 'Superman' rescuing a kitten from a tree" type things. After that, he can perform a quick interview in which he is his charming self and most people will say "y'know what? He seems like a decent guy." His entire personality is, by nature, disarming.

Now, if his first public appearance is in a superbrawl that messes up a big chunk of a city, that will change the response significantly. But if he's the "80s cheesy over the top goody two-shoes Superman from everyone's childhood", he won't wait for a giant alien invasion to reveal himself, so odds of that happening on his first day on the job are exceptionally low.

[Quild]

I just realized that MoSupes was because of Momoa. But he's Aquaman, so I don't get it.

AFAIK, we don't know on which side will be Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Cyborg, and even Lex.

I'm used to people complaining that a trailer shows the whole story plot, not that it doesn't :smallconfused:

[Metahuman1]

I'm gonna try something I haven't seen before. I'm gonna disagree with this sentiment.

Superman, or at least "80s cheesy over the top goody two-shoes Superman from everyone's childhood", actually is what many politicians carefully craft their public image to appear to be. He's friendly, courteous, humble, compassionate, smart, and honest. This will result in him being intensely charming and likable. If his first public appearance is rescuing people from an accident, then he spends some time performing random acts of kindness, the overwhelming response will be curiosity and pleasant bemusement. He'll likely get the occasional human interest story in the news: "and in other news, we've got a little footage of 'Superman' rescuing a kitten from a tree" type things. After that, he can perform a quick interview in which he is his charming self and most people will say "y'know what? He seems like a decent guy." His entire personality is, by nature, disarming.

Now, if his first public appearance is in a superbrawl that messes up a big chunk of a city, that will change the response significantly. But if he's the "80s cheesy over the top goody two-shoes Superman from everyone's childhood", he won't wait for a giant alien invasion to reveal himself, so odds of that happening on his first day on the job are exceptionally low.

Pretty much this.


Quild: Not quite. MoSupes was because of Chris Nolands Dark adn Gritty Batman Trilogy making so much money. So, since they wanted Chris Noland to do superman, and Chris Noland doesn't know how to do superman, they decided to just let him remake it as Batman in a different suit with a different fighting style. Except that Noland doesn't get that that's not how Superman works.

And then they let Zach Snyder, who ALSO doesn't get Superman in the least evidently, at it, and he proceeded to go along with Noland. And then they let David Goyer, who actively maliciously HATES Superman as a character and form the source material, and Noland and Snyder went along with him, and so he took the opportunity to treat the IP like (*!~ because he personally hates it. That's how we got MoSupes. And cause it made money on Superman's name and a good Marketing Campaign, there doubling down on it to make the entire rest of there Cinematic U which they weren't even gonna have till AFTER The Avengers Broke opening weekend box office records, fit that style. There pulling from Frank Miller and bringing him in on crafting the universe (I sincerely hope he tries to insist on making Wonder Woman hit some random none super guy at some point while telling him to "Move Over Sperm Bank." at some point and get's fired with out that having to actually make it onto film over it.). They decided there next movie, I think before even BvS is gonna be the freaking Suicide Squad which is a team of Supervillians working with bombs surgically implanted in there skulls as government black ops for a sociopath of Lex Luthors Caliber, in exchange for reduced sentences, and were gonna have Kal-Drogo and Conan the Barbarian playing Aquaman (I actually think this is a good call on it's own because (!%$ing super friends.).

All because Noland made money on the Dark Knight while not knowing how to handle any of DC's characters, Zach Snyder is incompetent, and David Goyer is a malicious jerk-ass.

[Quild]

That makes more sense.
And Noland is because of? He managed not to use anything of what is great in No Man's Land trying to use it?
They hate Superman? How do you figure? Is it stated or shown in their work? I'd say that Nolan hates Batman (https://xkcd.com/1004/) as well. His characters were nothing close of the Batman, Ras Al Ghul, Bane, Talia Al Ghul, Scarecrow and Catwoman I've seen.
His best character was Double-Face, and he didn't last long.
I'm not fond of his joker as well, but he's not the worst.

I know Suicide Squad a little (mostly form Assault on Arkham and then wikis) and I'm skeptical about how they will adapt that. I mean, they're not even anti-hero, they're villains.
Also Amanda Waller is a really disturbing woman in every show she's portrayed in and I would rather meet Lex Luthor than her. Big time.
Not sure she ever made a better act than finally deciding not to kill Terry's parents :smallconfused:

[Sith_Happens]

Just remember... (man I'm laughing typing this) no kryptonite in this world, but the atmosphere of krypton weakened him... (he he he) so in an aerosol form it would be a bat anti krypton spray...

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Q6tfvvXW--/18b0m56evwhaejpg.jpg


....I'm pretty sure that Superman wouldn't like these guys in fact.

I mean, Superman is a boy scout paladin who wants the best for people right? so why would accept some worshipping cult, when he probably doesn't want to be seen as a thing of worship? because I don't think Superman does. he wants to be a good example, not a divine figure. I'm sure the real Superman would be like
"Cut this out. Now. if you want to do good, there are some charities that I can direct you to...."

Accepting worship wouldn't be Setting A Good Example, it would be becoming a Celebrity for people to fawn and joke over, at best. This is out of character for Superman.

Which is why I said "...and/or he thinks he can guide them towards being good guys." As in he goes to their leader and is all "Okay, so honestly you guys are creeping me the hell out, but as long as you're fanatically willing to do anything I say, here's how I want you to act," which only doesn't work because Lex is secretly behind the whole thing.


Gotham, a city canonically cursed by Darksied, the forces of Hell and that darker side of magic in universe.

Wait, what?:smallconfused:

[Metahuman1]

That makes more sense.
And Noland is because of? He managed not to use anything of what is great in No Man's Land trying to use it?
They hate Superman? How do you figure? Is it stated or shown in their work? I'd say that Nolan hates Batman (https://xkcd.com/1004/) as well. His characters were nothing close of the Batman, Ras Al Ghul, Bane, Talia Al Ghul, Scarecrow and Catwoman I've seen.
His best character was Double-Face, and he didn't last long.
I'm not fond of his joker as well, but he's not the worst.

I know Suicide Squad a little (mostly form Assault on Arkham and then wikis) and I'm skeptical about how they will adapt that. I mean, they're not even anti-hero, they're villains.
Also Amanda Waller is a really disturbing woman in every show she's portrayed in and I would rather meet Lex Luthor than her. Big time.
Not sure she ever made a better act than finally deciding not to kill Terry's parents :smallconfused:

Ok, Noland does Batman Begins, which was not the MOST successful movie, but stongly successful enough to get a sequel, which he'd planned.

Then he does The Dark Knight, which is massively wildly successful in terms of both money made and critics loving it to death and movie goers thinking it's amazing. This Mostly rested on Heath Ledgers amazing performance as an Alan Moore Inspired Joker, and paying close homage to that. And Alan Moore, being a near peerless writer, does an amazing Joker.

Then he does the Dark Knight Rises, which, on the marketing campaign and the hype train form the previous movie, makes serious money even though most people strongly disliked it. But that's ok, it made serious money, so from the studios point of view, that's all that matters and Nolands 3-3 on one super hero property, so let's get him to do the next one.




The problem is Noland doesn't understand at all the next super they gave him, to a degree were unlike Batman he can't even pretend he grasps him and slide by or luck out for 2 movies. Zack Snyder doesn't help because he doesn't grasp this character either when he's brought in to direct.


Enter the other major producer, a studio man, Named David Goyer. Goyer Hates Superman, Super Hero's as a whole, and Comic Books as a whole, and has made this clear darn near every chance the media will give him. And since Noland and Snyder don't really get them either, they all just try to remake The Dark Knight in a different costume, and Goyer tries to actively destroy Superman cause he hates him, and Noland and Snyder don't help, but don't stop him either. Thus, we got Man of Steel.

And it made money on Superman's Name and a good marketing campaign.

And so they said "hey, this made money, super hero team ups make money, so next movie will be a team up, done like this movie and it will make money!". So they got them back to do the sequel, and then, decided "Hey, Frank Miller wrote a story were these two fought, let's use that!". And brought in Frank Miller.

Frank Miller has been insane for over a decade (Over 2 depending on whom you ask.), and is a horrible horrible person, who, contrary to what he thinks, doesn't get ANY super hero and how they work. Hasn't for decades for the one's he use to get like Batman, and don't even get me started on others he NEVER got like Wonder Woman and Superman.




Sith: We found out a few years after No Man's Land, the story I mentioned that line in context too, in the death and return of Bruce Wayne Plot, that Darksied, A Witch of actual magic power using black magic as she was burned at the stake, and the literal forces of hell, have cursed Gothem and the Wayne Family to forever be a sucky horrible place/forever get screwed over and that's why Batman can't get a break and why Gothem never get's better. That's why things like the generator incident in No Man's Land play out the way they do in Gothem in the face of all Logic.

It was stupid, but it was part of the same Canon No Man's Land was.

[theNater]

I hate to be that guy, but it's bothering me unreasonably. The director of Batman Begins is named Christopher Nolan. There's no d.

[Zmeoaice]

Then he does the Dark Knight Rises, which, on the marketing campaign and the hype train form the previous movie, makes serious money even though most people strongly disliked it. But that's ok, it made serious money, so from the studios point of view, that's all that matters and Nolands 3-3 on one super hero property, so let's get him to do the next one.

I personally find Rises to be absolute garbage, but the 88% Rotten Tomatoes score disagrees with this.

[Metahuman1]

Sorry, I keep hearing it pronounced when spoken aloud as Noland, so I spell it Phonetically.



That said, the rest stands.



Edit: What?


*Checks*


What?!!!! But, I, but, what, how, whatisthisIdon'teven, GAH!!!!!! \

MAKES! NO! SENSE! *Headdesk.*. God, EVERYONE I can ever remember talking about that movie since it came out RIPPED on it! HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?! TOMATOES! YOU HAVE FAILED ME!!!!!!!!!

[theNater]

Sorry, I keep hearing it pronounced when spoken aloud as Noland, so I spell it Phonetically.
No worries. Just my brain bein' crazy.


That said, the rest stands.
You'll get no argument from me on that stuff.


Edit: What?


*Checks*


What?!!!! But, I, but, what, how, whatisthisIdon'teven, GAH!!!!!! \

MAKES! NO! SENSE! *Headdesk.*. God, EVERYONE I can ever remember talking about that movie since it came out RIPPED on it! HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?! TOMATOES! YOU HAVE FAILED ME!!!!!!!!!
It was a significant step down, which can make people cranky. But when one doesn't compare it directly to The Dark Knight, it's...okay. I'd buy three stars. And if everybody gives it that, it gets good tomatoes.

[Quild]

Sorry, I keep hearing it pronounced when spoken aloud as Noland, so I spell it Phonetically.


That's what I was asking when I wrote Noland as well. I was thinking it was intentional and wondering why!


It's surprising that guys who openly hates super heroes works on them. It's worst that they manage to do money with it.

It find you way too gentle with Batman Begins and it's sequel.
This first two movies are an insult to Batman's universe. They use the character names in a terrible depiction, mostly because Nolan wanted it realistic. But that doesn't even explain everything. Why would Nolan inflict such treatment to Ras Al Ghul for instance?
But if you've never heard about the batverse, they're probably not that much against them.

But TDKR doesn't even have that. The scenario is crap from A to Z. Nolan recognized he wasn't interested in doing that movie in a first place!

I honestly prefer B&R to those movies. Even for Bane.

[Sith_Happens]

MAKES! NO! SENSE! *Headdesk.*. God, EVERYONE I can ever remember talking about that movie since it came out RIPPED on it! HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?! TOMATOES! YOU HAVE FAILED ME!!!!!!!!!

I guess because you only hang out with that 12%? Everyone I know is in the other 88%.:smalltongue:

[lord_khaine]

Sith: We found out a few years after No Man's Land, the story I mentioned that line in context too, in the death and return of Bruce Wayne Plot, that Darksied, A Witch of actual magic power using black magic as she was burned at the stake, and the literal forces of hell, have cursed Gothem and the Wayne Family to forever be a sucky horrible place/forever get screwed over and that's why Batman can't get a break and why Gothem never get's better. That's why things like the generator incident in No Man's Land play out the way they do in Gothem in the face of all Logic.

Why are people treating this like its a bad thing..?

I kinda think its cool, and it certainly gives a good in-world explanation off why Gotham is so much darker than most other cities in the DC universe.

[Kid Jake]

I honestly prefer B&R to those movies. Even for Bane.

Yeah, at least Schumacher's Bane didn't sound like Dr Evil. That's all I can even remember about TDKR, expecting him to coyly chew on his pinky after every line.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Why are people treating this like its a bad thing..?

I kinda think its cool, and it certainly gives a good in-world explanation off why Gotham is so much darker than most other cities in the DC universe.

"It's magic and powerful magicians hate Bruce Wayne personally" is certainly an in-universe explanation, but good is stretching subjectivity to the breaking point.

[Ranxerox]

I just realized that MoSupes was because of Momoa. But he's Aquaman, so I don't get it.

AFAIK, we don't know on which side will be Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Cyborg, and even Lex.

I'm used to people complaining that a trailer shows the whole story plot, not that it doesn't :smallconfused:

Do you mean the name "MoSupes"? That is just a shortening of Man of Steel Superman.

[Legato Endless]

This is fairly accurate. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR5HuQK5fYY&spfreload=10)

[Kitten Champion]

This is fairly accurate. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR5HuQK5fYY&spfreload=10)

More or less, though I have difficulty believing this teaser is generating more controversy than the actual movie will a year from now.

I mean I think we've had in the ball park of 100-150 forum pages arguing the relative merits of Man of Steel, and it keeps coming up.

[Legato Endless]

More or less, though I have difficulty believing this teaser is generating more controversy than the actual movie will a year from now.

I mean I think we've had in the ball park of 100-150 forum pages arguing the relative merits of Man of Steel, and it keeps coming up.

No, although I took it more as hyperbole about the age we live as fans where a sounding furor comes out at any potentially contentious announcement and then passes into the ether once it's actually released. Granted, the existence of the Internet means those things can remain much longer in the cultural consciousness than they used to, but preview reactions still seem to rather exaggerated in their acuity.

[Ranxerox]

More or less, though I have difficulty believing this teaser is generating more controversy than the actual movie will a year from now.

I mean I think we've had in the ball park of 100-150 forum pages arguing the relative merits of Man of Steel, and it keeps coming up.

It didn't say that the teaser would generate more controversy than the movie, it said the the teaser would create more drama than there would be in the movie. It is not talking about drama created by the movie, it is referring to the drama of the movie's plot.

[DiscipleofBob]

I had low expectations for Batman vs Superman already. That trailer was somehow worse than I imagined.

I will now be referring to this movie as "The Passion of the Superman."

[Kitten Champion]

It didn't say that the teaser would generate more controversy than the movie, it said the the teaser would create more drama than there would be in the movie. It is not talking about drama created by the movie, it is referring to the drama of the movie's plot.

Oh, I misheard. That's pretty clever.

[HandofShadows]

I had low expectations for Batman vs Superman already. That trailer was somehow worse than I imagined.

Agree. This trailer is boring and pretentious. I do not have much hope of this being a good movie either. You would think that DC would learn SOMETHING from Marvel about putting out a whole series of damn good and popular movies. :(

[BWR]

Agree. This trailer is boring and pretentious. I do not have much hope of this being a good movie either. You would think that DC would learn SOMETHING from Marvel about putting out a whole series of damn good and popular movies. :(

Popular, maybe, but some of us disagree about 'damn good'. The Thor and Hulk movies were on the bad side of meh, GotG was a solid middle of the road flick (saved from being flung in with Thor because of the dance scenes and Rocket), and Avengers, IMs 2 and 3 were good, but not what I'd call damn good. I like Nolan's Batman movies and only IM and CA:TFA can equal MoS.

[Thialfi]

I am firmly convinced that Warner Bros. has absolutely no idea how to do a movie with their superhero properties.

"Tell me, do you bleed? You will!"

Give me a break. Superman is a Boy Scout in spandex. He is all about hope. Dark, gritty, and angsty does not work with him. The Brandon Routh Superman movie was better than that last pile of junk and that's saying something.

Of course, what do I know? I thought the Nolan Batman films were all overrated (except Anne Hathaway, she knocked it out of the park as Catwoman, by far the best performance in any of the movies, yes, that includes Heath Ledger).

Suicide Squad looks like the best of the bunch in development, but I'm worried they will forget to add the humor that it desperately needs to work properly.

At least they seem to be having better luck on TV (except Gotham, that stinks). Flash is campy fun and Arrow actually works as a dark soap opera. Speaking of Brandon Routh, he really works as the Atom.

[Quild]

I am firmly convinced that Warner Bros. has absolutely no idea how to do a movie with their superhero properties.

"Tell me, do you bleed? You will!"

Give me a break. Superman is a Boy Scout in spandex. He is all about hope. Dark, gritty, and angsty does not work with him. The Brandon Routh Superman movie was better than that last pile of junk and that's saying something.
OMG, That's Todd!

Superman may be more complex that you think.
He has a dark side in the "Injustice" video game and in the "Crisis on two earths" movies. I think the video game is based on that same content though, which is in part based on Morrison's Earth 2.

And of course, in Dark Knight Returns, Superman is not far from still being a boyscout, but is more grim than he was before.


Of course, what do I know? I thought the Nolan Batman films were all overrated (except Anne Hathaway, she knocked it out of the park as Catwoman, by far the best performance in any of the movies, yes, that includes Heath Ledger).
Well, I couldn't say since I can't consider her as Catwoman. I mean, she's not named as such and is disguised as a maid while stealing from Wayne.
My preference goes from far to Aaron Eckhart for his Harvey Dent and Double-Face role.
But it would be right to say that I'm not judging performance here. It's just that he is the only character that I find accurately portrayed in these movies.

Because:
Batman: That guy dressed like a bat is not Batman. Way too slow, it's Bruce Wayne wearing a mask while Bruce Wayne should be Batman wearing a mask, it's a character that's supposed to be there because of the death of his parents but gets broken from the death of his "girlfriend" and is also physically broken and retired after having been what... 5 years of Batman? At most? Also, this voice...

Alfred: Isn't it the same guy that works for Osborn and tells Harry "Eyh you know, your father wounds, they were made by his own stuff. Just saying you that years after"? Because the "Eyh you know, the girlfriend you mourns, she had chose the other guy" reminds me of it. He doesn't strike me as Pennyworth anyway.

Ra's Al Ghul: The whole mystical part of the demon's head is totally negated in this. The whole "Detective" thing does not exist. Where's Ubu? And that thing with the old asian man that's supposed to be Ra's Al Ghul but really isn't???? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Gordon: He's actually not that bad at all.

Scarecrow: My best friend likes him and hates Nolan for what he did to Scarecrow. In. The. Damned. Three. Movies. Sure, the toxin part is not that bad, but otherwise, it's very lame. I can't help but think that his role in TDKR was supposed to be for Double-Face.

Lucius Fox: Not that bad either and his importance in the movies certainly avoids some plot hole. It would not have been bad from him not to take 8 years to tell Bruce that the R&D project that was stopped for like no reason ruined the company. Or something like that.

Joker: My problem with that joker is his introduction scene. The one he wears a mask on and has a plan that involves killing henchmen during it. That very part where he says "no, I kill the driver" while threatened by the one who got his scheme is something I hate in movies (and books). It's something that only works because the plot wants it to surprise the audience, but it's utterly stupid. Even from someone as chaotic as the Joker. His introduction scene should not be while wearing a mask. Wouldn't it be for that, I may have liked him. He's random and crazy enough while smart and interested in psychology and has a sense of show. But first impression, you know... Also I don't like the costume and he uses make-up. Real Joker don't use make-up to look like the Joker.

Double-Face: He incarnates wonderfully the pure white knight with already a hint of double-identity and falls in crazyness. The only trouble I remember with him is that he rubs his face in oïl in a weird way.

Selina Kyle: Already said what I had to.

Bane: Here comes some heavy stuff, really. He's just strong. The mask is not Bane's mask at all and the explanation lacks sense. And the voice is terrible, really. His plan is one of the dumbest plot ever. Break the guy, put him near a doctor and a TV and wait 6 months before destroying the city. And in the end he's just a puppet for...:

Talia Al Ghul: She's probably as much hated oversea that in France. Let's not talk about the actress terrible persona and that death scene, but about the character. Gotham as become what Ra's Al Ghul thought wouldn't be possible. Cops have nothing much more to do than chase overdue books. But let's destroy that corrupted city anyway, yeah. The league of shadows doesn't exist. Her fighting skills don't. The persona just isn't right. Another Al Ghul hit the dust. So glad Damian won't exist here.

Robin: I lack the strength to write what I think of it.


This is why I hate Nolan so much for his work on Batman. I totally love the guy for:
- Memento
- His position against so-called "3D"
- His preference for the use of film (rather than digital I mean)
The Prestige is all right, I actually liked it, but it's totally shadowed by Memento.



Aaaah, that was kinda liberating.

[Eldan]

Why are people treating this like its a bad thing..?

I kinda think its cool, and it certainly gives a good in-world explanation off why Gotham is so much darker than most other cities in the DC universe.

At that point, I'm mostly wondering why people don't just abandon the city.

[Reddish Mage]

More or less, though I have difficulty believing this teaser is generating more controversy than the actual movie will a year from now.

I mean I think we've had in the ball park of 100-150 forum pages arguing the relative merits of Man of Steel, and it keeps coming up.

I read it as 100-150 pages of negativity that have yet to fully plumb the depths of of just how many ways that movie sucked.

[lord_khaine]

At that point, I'm mostly wondering why people don't just abandon the city.

That would most likely require that people knew the dam place were cursed to start with?

[Cristo Meyers]

Scarecrow: My best friend likes him and hates Nolan for what he did to Scarecrow. In. The. Damned. Three. Movies. Sure, the toxin part is not that bad, but otherwise, it's very lame. I can't help but think that his role in TDKR was supposed to be for Double-Face.


If I remember correctly (a dicey proposition at the best of times) the Cillian Murphy did in fact turn down a part in TDK in order to have a more central role in Rises.

We all saw how well that went for him.

--

So they're doubling-down on dark and gritty again? Call me when we get a DC movie that doesn't look like it came straight out of Hunter: The Vigil...

[Metahuman1]

That's what I was asking when I wrote Noland as well. I was thinking it was intentional and wondering why!


It's surprising that guys who openly hates super heroes works on them. It's worst that they manage to do money with it.

It find you way too gentle with Batman Begins and it's sequel.
This first two movies are an insult to Batman's universe. They use the character names in a terrible depiction, mostly because Nolan wanted it realistic. But that doesn't even explain everything. Why would Nolan inflict such treatment to Ras Al Ghul for instance?
But if you've never heard about the batverse, they're probably not that much against them.

But TDKR doesn't even have that. The scenario is crap from A to Z. Nolan recognized he wasn't interested in doing that movie in a first place!

I honestly prefer B&R to those movies. Even for Bane.

I was gonna respond yesterday, then stuff came up and I got side tracked. That said, I was gonna leave it alone today, except for that last sentence. As bad as Rises was, and make no mistake, it was bad, It's Bane was still better then Batman And Robin's Bane. (I'd honestly like to see someone who GET'S Batman do a Bane centric Movie. )

I though Hathaway was a fairly solid Selena Kyle (and while he was Minor I thought Dagget (Or however his name is spelled.) worked as corrupt businessman.

I agree that Talia was REALLY bad to insert into this movie. REALLY bad.

I though Alfred was good. He and Lucius got several of the best lines in the Trilogy.

I liked Ledger's Joker, and I liked Two Face, Scare Crow (though I felt he shouldn't have been in Rises, or at least, not were he actually showed up.). And I though Ra's was, passable. I'd have rather they didn't use him I admit.

And I agree with Batman and Robin being HORRIBLE depictions.




Now, here's the thing, there pulling form Dark Knight Returns for this upcoming movie. Frank Miller, the author of Dark Knight Returns, is working on it. And DKR is one of the best Batman stories ever told. It's also unfortunately one of the WORST Superman stories ever told. This is NOT a good thing to pull up unless you actively, maliciously, want Superman to look bad. (Also, sometime after writing DKR, Frank Miller kinda went insane and decided he Hates Women, none Cissgender Heterosexuals, None Christians, and None Whites. And he's not gotten over that that I know of, so I find it baffling you'd want someone like that working on your big block buster movie. )

Also, just, small thing, Crime was back to normal in Gothem as of start of DKR. Things had basically gone back to as normal in the years between TDK and TDKR for Gothem. Corruption, crime rampant, ext.




Sith: Looks that way. And dear god does it sadden me.


Lord Khline: Nerd-O-Rama has the right of it. Though they should have also mentioned "And Alien Gods also hate him personally enough to play with reality to screw him over.". But yeah, it's an explanation, it's in universe, it wasn't very good.


Regarding Suicide Squad: It could actually work. It's a movie that NEEDS the kind of tone they've set for MoS and BvS. So, I'm catiously hopeful for that one.

I'm also cautiously hopeful for Aquaman, that even if it's bad, it at least get's pop culture to freaking SHUT UP ABOUT TALKS TO FISH SUPERFRIENDS!!!!!!!

And Like I said, they might be bating us with the trailer. Depends on if Afleck really did take over the movie set as rumor has it or not.

[Legato Endless]

Real Joker don't use make-up to look like the Joker.


So I'm guessing you hated Neil Gaiman's death of Batman as well.


That would most likely require that people knew the dam place were cursed to start with?

Actually, I think all that would be required would be basic pattern recognition. How long have we been living in this hell hole which shows no signs of changing. The metaphysical cause is sort of irrelevant to the people on the ground. Then again, Gothamites don't act like they live in a low grade war zone anyway, so at least this is a consistent mental defect.

[Quild]

So I'm guessing you hated Neil Gaiman's death of Batman as well.
Well, I haven't readed it (yet). I guess even Gaiman can't be perfect.


@Metahuman1: I hate that B&R's Bane was a brainwashed minion of Ivy. I honestly did not catch it was him while I was a kid that only knew TAS, and thought a friend was wrong when he told me that Bane was in that movies years later.
That being said, he's at least a grotesque mass of muscles powered by "Venom". Such a minor role doesn't suit Bane, but there is at least that ressemblance that TDKR doesn't have.
There's a line from "The Batman" that I remember. Joker got Bane's venom and gloats about having both his brain and Bane's muscle. Batman answers to the Joker that Bane is smarter than he is. I know the Joker is a pure genius in his own damaged way, but I loved this line and I'm convinced that Bane is not just muscles.

Also I don't get your line about crime. In TDKR there's almost no crime because of the Dent Act. Dent Act looks like a terrible thing regarding Human Rights, but that's not Talia's grief against Gotham. She believes the city is as corrupted by crime than she was before her father death. For like no reason.

I agree that Hathaway was quite a good Selina Kyle. Just a bad Catwoman.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Actually, I think all that would be required would be basic pattern recognition. How long have we been living in this hell hole which shows no signs of changing. The metaphysical cause is sort of irrelevant to the people on the ground. Then again, Gothamites don't act like they live in a low grade war zone anyway, so at least this is a consistent mental defect.

Well, in the real world, people still live in Detroit.

[Zmeoaice]

Well, I haven't readed it (yet). I guess even Gaiman can't be perfect.


Basically Joker was secretly Alfred in disguise only pretending to kill people, so he could give Bruce purpose in life by fighting him.

[comicshorse]

Probably should spoiler that

[Legato Endless]

Well, in the real world, people still live in Detroit.

True, but even places like South Africa don't really have anything on Gotham. You've no knowing whether or not Joker or Scarecrow won't release mass chemical weapons this month, gassing the city in laughing gas or poisoning the water with fear toxin. I'm not saying people wouldn't live there, I'm saying they shouldn't act like average big city Americans.

[Quild]

...

Why in hell would you say that???

:smallmad:

[Metahuman1]

@Metahuman1: I hate that B&R's Bane was a brainwashed minion of Ivy. I honestly did not catch it was him while I was a kid that only knew TAS, and thought a friend was wrong when he told me that Bane was in that movies years later.
That being said, he's at least a grotesque mass of muscles powered by "Venom". Such a minor role doesn't suit Bane, but there is at least that ressemblance that TDKR doesn't have.
There's a line from "The Batman" that I remember. Joker got Bane's venom and gloats about having both his brain and Bane's muscle. Batman answers to the Joker that Bane is smarter than he is. I know the Joker is a pure genius in his own damaged way, but I loved this line and I'm convinced that Bane is not just muscles.

Also I don't get your line about crime. In TDKR there's almost no crime because of the Dent Act. Dent Act looks like a terrible thing regarding Human Rights, but that's not Talia's grief against Gotham. She believes the city is as corrupted by crime than she was before her father death. For like no reason.

I agree that Hathaway was quite a good Selina Kyle. Just a bad Catwoman.

Bane is suppose to be Intelligent. In his introductory confrontation with Batman, he took his time, studying his foe. And he was smart about fighting him. He staged a riot at Arkham and Black Gate Prison, and let EVERY crook ever put away by Batman loose all at once. Batman had to basically use up all the gadgets he can bring into the field and exhaust and injure himself significantly form all the running around and fighting he had to do. And while that was going on, Bane observed, making sure to nudge things here and there so he could fight Batman on a ground of Bane's Choosing, at the end. Opening with an Ambush, after Batman had been crippled and exhausted and had nothing left, and after observing him and his fighting style.

The overwhelming physical power helped, but it was the smarts that tipped the balance in Banes favor. And as bad as Noland Bane was, it was an improvement for at least attempting to tell us that Bane is smart. (They failed but at least they tried.).

And Crime had gone back to normal. The rich and powerful were free of it, but Dagget and Kyle various things Gorden and Robin say through out clue us in that there back to prebatman status. Corrupt and crime ridden, the latter more so if your not a member of the 1%. (This double served as Noland being heavy handed at playing with an at that particular moment in time very popular political sentiment.).


Honestly, I think Hathaway could be a good Catwoman as well, you'd just need someone in charge of the movie that gives a crap about the source material.

[Reddish Mage]

True, but even places like South Africa don't really have anything on Gotham. You've no knowing whether or not Joker or Scarecrow won't release mass chemical weapons this month, gassing the city in laughing gas or poisoning the water with fear toxin. I'm not saying people wouldn't live there, I'm saying they shouldn't act like average big city Americans.

Obviously, people who live in the comic book world are extremely blasé at supervillainry. It happens, they get saved, and they go on to live their life like they always do...

[TheEmerged]

I'd like to point out the "How It Should Have Ended" \ "Super Café" people have weighed in (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QFPuyDrIIk).

[Zevox]

Superman may be more complex that you think.
He has a dark side in the "Injustice" video game and in the "Crisis on two earths" movies. I think the video game is based on that same content though, which is in part based on Morrison's Earth 2.
Injustice was an alternate universe version of him, and its plot was pretty blatantly based on the Justice League episode "A Better World," which featured an alternate universe version of the team that had become more totalitarian in how they protected Earth after their Flash was killed and Luthor nearly started World War 3 after being elected President of the US. Unfortunately, Injustice's writing team lacked even half of the talent that the show's writers had, so instead of an alternate Superman and Justice League that were still well-meaning, actually displayed some regret at the things they felt they had to do, but still came across as believably thinking they were doing the right thing, it has an alternate Superman that has clearly gone off the deep end and is associating openly with villains like Sinestro and Luthor. And an alternate Justice League that are mostly either just as evil as Supes but with little to no explanation why (most of them), too scared of him to try and stop him for most of the story (Flash), dumb enough to think he's still a good guy for most of the story (Shazam), or tried to oppose him and got killed for it (Green Arrow).

Yeah, I would not be citing Injustice's story as a good example of any sort of writing, really.

[Legato Endless]

Crisis on Two Earths also might not count, as Ultraman is merely Superman's counterpart in terms of power set in another universe. He doesn't actually have anything in common with boy blue, being essentially a thug. He isn't Superman fallen and corrupted, he 's what you get when you combine Superman's powers with the personality of a stereotypical mob boss.

[Quild]

I've been mixing the plot of "Crisis on Two Earths" and the "A Better World" episode. I was thinking about the latter. I'm not sure I've seen the former one now.

Point is, Superman can have a dark side and be a totalitarian. That wouldn't come out of nowhere even if it's slightly more a stretch that it had been before.

I don't think that's the plot here though.

[Infernally Clay]

This Superman is flawed. He gets emotional, he's naive. He makes mistakes. You'll probably find that his newfound fame got to him. He went from a drifter hiding himself from the world to a guy the entire world is fascinated by and in awe of. If people are calling him a god, erecting statues of him and giving him what looks like his own military unit, it wouldn't be surprising for that to happen. It wouldn't be surprising if he became more heavy handed, either, once he realised Zod was much more reasonable and sane than most of the villains humanity has to offer. That would be enough for him to become "cruel", as Alfred said.

I'm pretty sure Lex Luthor is probably not helping matters. If he's after Kryptonian tech (and he's Lex Luthor, so of course he is), maybe he's using Superman and inflating his ego or whatever to get to it.

[Metahuman1]

This Superman is flawed. He gets emotional, he's naive. He makes mistakes. You'll probably find that his newfound fame got to him. He went from a drifter hiding himself from the world to a guy the entire world is fascinated by and in awe of. If people are calling him a god, erecting statues of him and giving him what looks like his own military unit, it wouldn't be surprising for that to happen. It wouldn't be surprising if he became more heavy handed, either, once he realised Zod was much more reasonable and sane than most of the villains humanity has to offer. That would be enough for him to become "cruel", as Alfred said.

I'm pretty sure Lex Luthor is probably not helping matters. If he's after Kryptonian tech (and he's Lex Luthor, so of course he is), maybe he's using Superman and inflating his ego or whatever to get to it.

Translated: This superman is horribly written version of Superman by people who 100% don't get superman or 100% hate his guts as a character and/or concept and/or how he actually works.

[Infernally Clay]

Translated: This superman is horribly written version of Superman by people who 100% don't get superman or 100% hate his guts as a character and/or concept and/or how he actually works.

Of course it's a horribly written interpretation of Superman. Did you even see Man of Steel? In that film Superman was the most blatant and hamfisted Jesus expy ever. It was atrocious. Superman isn't this flawless, deific being and I hate the constant reminders in Man of Steel that he's supposed to be this saviour of mankind sent from another world to enlighten humanity and lead us towards a better world.

That whole film was just so dumb and its interpretation of who Superman is and what he represents was terrible.

[Kitten Champion]

I thought I should bring this up, because why not?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-j4ELq7ylvdo/VTrtYq92EfI/AAAAAAAAA-A/xX6nibdkTR0/s1600/leto%2Bjoker.png

[Legato Endless]

O_o

That's...what they're going with?

Well, if he's trying to be continually underestimated, that's not a bad ploy. I would have a hard time taking anyone seriously who was so painfully overwrought they emblazoned 'Damaged' on their forehead.

[t209]

I thought I should bring this up, because why not?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-j4ELq7ylvdo/VTrtYq92EfI/AAAAAAAAA-A/xX6nibdkTR0/s1600/leto%2Bjoker.png
I think they mixed up Victor Zsasz with Joker. I don't know if it's true but they won't give Will Smith a mask for his role as Deadshot to get publicity from face.

[stcfg]

There was a bit of fan backlash to the tattoos. They said it's just a publicity shot and that he's not going to have them in the movie.

A cynical person might say that they responded to the fan backlash and are going to remove the tats in post-production

[Devonix]

O_o

That's...what they're going with?

Well, if he's trying to be continually underestimated, that's not a bad ploy. I would have a hard time taking anyone seriously who was so painfully overwrought they emblazoned 'Damaged' on their forehead.

Eh don't see anything too off about it. Some people would say the joker having a Glasgow smile was just as bad.

[Legato Endless]

Eh don't see anything too off about it. Some people would say the joker having a Glasgow smile was just as bad.

The skin color is alright, but the tats make him look like this film was funded exclusively by Hot Topic.

http://i.imgur.com/dAx0vDQ.jpg

[Kitten Champion]

That's...what they're going with?

Well, if he's trying to be continually underestimated, that's not a bad ploy. I would have a hard time taking anyone seriously who was so painfully overwrought they emblazoned 'Damaged' on their forehead.

I can kind of see the logic behind it, from a "we don't want him to resemble Ledger's Joker in any way" kind of way.

It's also nice to have one of these DC promo shots not to have the colourless angst-filter they've been using -- look! you can see green and purple! You'd almost wonder if they forgot those were part of the visible light spectrum at this point.

Other than that... I hope he gets to wear a shirt at some point, he looks cold.

[Eldan]

Bit boring, though. And he looks. Hm. Don't know. Wimpy? More like a mid-twenties punk kid than the joker.

So, I've seen these pictures around and I have no idea what they are for. Are they putting the Joker in this movie?

[Legato Endless]

Bit boring, though. And he looks. Hm. Don't know. Wimpy? More like a mid-twenties punk kid than the joker.

So, I've seen these pictures around and I have no idea what they are for. Are they putting the Joker in this movie?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_Squad_(film)

[BWR]

Bit boring, though. And he looks. Hm. Don't know. Wimpy? More like a mid-twenties punk kid than the joker.

So, I've seen these pictures around and I have no idea what they are for. Are they putting the Joker in this movie?

It's for the upcoming Suicide Squad movie. I can only hope they don't have the Joker in the SS. He doesn't really play well with others.

[Lost Demiurge]

It's for the upcoming Suicide Squad movie. I can only hope they don't have the Joker in the SS. He doesn't really play well with others.

See, you know what'd make the SS movie for me?

Having them start with punk/joker in the Squad, have him be a total klutz who's trying too hard, and clearly not living up to his hype, have several of the Squad grouse that he's not all he's hyped up, and wondering how Batman has trouble with this guy...

...Then have the REAL Joker and Harley show up and off him mid-mission. And put the rest of the Squad through some horrible SAW-style obstacle course, for infringing on his copyright.

[lord_khaine]

Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
Translated: This superman is horribly written version of Superman by people who 100% don't get superman or 100% hate his guts as a character and/or concept and/or how he actually works.
Of course it's a horribly written interpretation of Superman. Did you even see Man of Steel? In that film Superman was the most blatant and hamfisted Jesus expy ever. It was atrocious. Superman isn't this flawless, deific being and I hate the constant reminders in Man of Steel that he's supposed to be this saviour of mankind sent from another world to enlighten humanity and lead us towards a better world.

That whole film was just so dumb and its interpretation of who Superman is and what he represents was terrible.

AKA large guys with sticks should have been hired to keep these morons at least a mile away from the script at all times? :smallconfused:


Spoiler: This isn't so bad...


Actually know.. kinda likes that joker as well.. looks a bit young.. but really freaking mad.

[tomandtish]

It's for the upcoming Suicide Squad movie. I can only hope they don't have the Joker in the SS. He doesn't really play well with others.

Sorry to disappoint (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1386697/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1). he was confirmed awhile ago.

[Gamerlord]

Sorry to disappoint (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1386697/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1). he was confirmed awhile ago.
If we want to be optimistic, maybe he won't actually in the squad proper, but will be in a side role to introduce Quinn to movie audiences.

[Zmeoaice]

The Joker reveal is almost as bad as Aquaman if not worse. Now I really hope the DDCU film fail.

[BWR]

Sorry to disappoint (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1386697/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1). he was confirmed awhile ago.

I meant I hope Joker isn't going to be a part of the actual team. He could still be in the movie, though I think it would be a waste.