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Easy_Lee
2015-04-17, 11:09 PM
I promised that I would make this thread. The purpose of this thread is to analyze the logic behind warlock spell invocations, including required level and whether the spell requires a spell slot to cast. The best use would be for DMs who want to homebrew invocations or whose players wish to do likewise. My analysis will, I hope, assist in determining balance for spell invocations.

Below I've compiled a table of the spells warlocks can gain from invocations, the required level for the invocation, the spell level, and whether the spell is slotted. By slotted, I mean whether the spell requires a spell slot to cast (and can only be cast once per long rest, unlike normal warlock spells). When this value is no, the spell can be cast at will any number of times per day.



Spell Required Level Spell Level Slotted
Speak with animals[/td] none 1 no
Mage Armor[/td] none 1 no
Detect magic none 1 no
False life (1) none 1 no
Disguise self none 1 no
Silent image none 1 no
Jump 9 1 no
Levitate 9 2 no
Speak with dead 9 3 no
Alter self 15 2 no
Arcane eye 15 4 no
Bane none 1 yes
Slow 5 3 yes
Bestow curse 5 3 yes
Compulsion 7 4 yes
Confusion 7 4 yes
Polymorph 7 4 yes
Conjure elemental 9 5 yes


I'll explain why some are purple in a moment.

From this list, we can draw some conclusions about the spells:


1. Offensive combat spells are slotted, and can only be cast once per long rest

2. For slotted spells, the highest spell level is 5, and the required level is that at which the warlock gains access to that spell level (2*spell level - 1)

3. Slotless Spells are all self-buffs or utility - they let the warlock disguise himself, detect magic, jump far, levitate, cast arcane eye, disguise or alter himself, and so on

4. Slotless spells with a spell level of 1 do not have a required warlock level

The above set of observations hold true for all spell invocations, except Jump.

On the purples: As you may have noticed, the purple ones are all slotless spell invocations. Their required levels and spell levels are all over the place. Particularly vexing is jump, which shouldn't have had a required level but requires level 9. Jump, speak with the dead, and levitate all require level 9, in spite of having spell levels of 1, 2, and 3. Alter Self and Arcane Eye both require level 15 in spite of having spell levels of 2 and 4. I have no idea what to make of these, and so draw the following, 5th conclusion.


5. Slotless spells with a spell level over 1 have a required level of whatever you feel like.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Giant2005
2015-04-17, 11:34 PM
So in conclusion, all offensive spells require a spell slot and all level 1 spells don't require a spell slot unless they are bound by the offensive spell clause. All other aspects are chosen arbitrarily.

Tenmujiin
2015-04-18, 12:16 AM
All the invocations with no requirement are 1st level spells. The slotted spells are spells Wizards were too scared to put on the warlock spell list for fear of them being OP with a short rest recharge and are probably the best way to expand the warlock spell list without havibg to worry too much about balance.

I would also add the following rule:

Slotless spells of above first level are given a requirement of lv9 or lv15 based on how powerful they could be concived to be. First level spells may be given a requirement of lv9 based on the same reasoning.

SharkForce
2015-04-18, 01:01 AM
while i can see the value in an analysis that works to keep the warlock at its current level, i would add that the general perception for the offensive spells that require a slot to be expended and can only be used once tend to be considered not valuable enough.

there are exceptions - polymorph is so good that it's probably worth it, at least when you can first get it (but not as an offensive spell, as a buff spell; turn a fighter into a giant ape at level 7, for example, and you've quite possibly buffed their damage. for that matter, turn yourself into a giant ape, and you've probably buffed your own damage too). and confusion may be worth it just because of the impact it can have on a fight where the enemy has bad saves against it.

but i mean, bane? who's gonna give up an invocation that could be used to get something valuable like devil sight to be able to cast bane (using up one of their spell slots) once per day, and more importantly use up their all-important concentration slot? adding insult to injury, it's the sort of spell that honestly should just be on the warlock list in the first place, along with bestow curse.

i would agree with your assessment on the no-slot abilities though. there's no purely mechanical pattern... it's pretty much based on how valuable they think the spell is when you can spam it at-will. for example, jump isn't that great normally. you can do some pretty great stuff even with a level 1 spell slot. but when it costs no slot, it gets a lot better, because it doesn't require concentration. with levitation, i think they were basically treating it as fly; 2/3 of all warlocks (so far) can get a familiar to move them around, after all. alter self i think is mostly suffering from PEAS: Previous Edition Awesomeness Syndrome. back in the day, it was an amazing spell; it was a disguise, it was poor man's flight, water breathing plus swim speed, spider climb, and with some DMs you could even manage to get a burrowing speed out of it. nowadays it's still decent, but i think it got bumped so late mostly because everyone remembers it being an amazing utility spell when now it's really not that awesome any more.

arcane eye, on the other hand, probably deserves it's spot. for any resource-based class, knowing what you're up against (and therefore the best way to spend your resources) is huge. if you have any prepared casters in the group (wizard, cleric, druid, and to a lesser extent paladin) being able to scout around at-will with little risk of discovery (and consequently little risk of being killed) is extremely powerful.

D-naras
2015-04-18, 06:56 AM
Jump at will is awesome utility. It has a respectable duration with no concentration unlike levitate. While 9 might be too high a level, I think it is right for this ability to have a level requirement. If it didn't then a 2 level dip in warlock would triple everyone's vertical mobility as well as the standard goodies it already grants. If jump at will was an ability for fighter,rogue, barbarian, monk or ranger at what level would you expect it to show up? (I now want to play a dragoon bladelock, jumping on people's heads with a halberd or spear)