Omm.... *THWACK!* "Message for you, sir!"

[Jurai]

WAY OF THE ZEN ARCHER
Zen Archery: At third level, you treat all simple ranged and thrown weapons as Monk weapons, with everything that entails. Additionally, you may use the Flurry of Blows feature and the Martial Arts class feature's Bonus Action Unarmed Strike with these weapons.

Pierce the Void: At sixth level, you may spend 1 Ki point and your bonus action before the result of a ranged weapon attack roll is revealed. You may reroll the attack.

Clout Step: At eleventh level, as an action, you may make a ranged weapon attack targeting a space on the ground within normal range. You may then spend 4 Ki points to cast Dimension Door, with your destination being the location where the arrow landed.

Noisome Rain, Silent Death: At seventeenth level, you may spend 6 Ki Points as an action. You then make a ranged weapon attack roll. Every opponent within one half of your weapon’s normal range with an AC below the result of the attack roll takes damage as though hit by your ranged weapon, and then must make a Dexterity save or acquire the Grappled condition as the projectiles pin them to the ground. A creature must roll a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics), with a DC equal to the result of your attack roll to remove this condition.

[Ralanr]

The level six ability should be before reveal.

[Jurai]

Okay, my question, however, is with the third level ability. Is that too powerful?

[DanyBallon]

Okay, my question, however, is with the third level ability. Is that too powerful?

I'd limit it to Shortbow, and thrown weapon, just for flavor.

[Jurai]

Yes, but I don't think it's fair to restrict player options just for flavor. Perhaps make it ranged weapons with which you are proficient?

[DanyBallon]

Yes, but I don't think it's fair to restrict player options just for flavor. Perhaps make it ranged weapons with which you are proficient?

Weapons you're proficient in is fair. As monk are proficient with simple weapons and short sword, since most thrown weapons are simple weapons, only exception is Trident which is a martial weapon but don't fit the monk flavor. It would add light crossbow and sling, which is fine to me. You might have to consider what would be the effects if someone multiclass in a class giving access to martial ranged weapon.

And I think flavor giving you limiting your access to weapon is fair as classes are built this way. Wizards were limited to daggers, dart, quarterstaff and light crossbow flavorwise even before considering balance. Same goes for monks, rogue, elves, dwarves, etc.

[Jurai]

Hmm... Perhaps give proficiency in Shortbows?

[Ralanr]

Hmm... Perhaps give proficiency in Shortbows?

Those aren't simple? If you're giving it monk weapon progression like the other ranged simple weapons then I don't see a problem.

[DanyBallon]

Hmm... Perhaps give proficiency in Shortbows?
Monks are already proficient with shortbows (as they are with Light crossbow, dart and slings). But in order to prevent abuse with zen archery, where a fighter/monk would use a hand crossbow as a monk weapon, I'd say you now treat all simple range and simple thrown weapon as monk weapon. How's about that?

[Jurai]

Longbow, then. In 3.5, Shortbows were Martial Weapons like Longbows.

[DanyBallon]

I wouldn't give them longbow as a monk weapon. Traditionally longbow are more a western weapon and required more strength than dexterity to use. In my opinion, thematically they don't fit for monk. But again, if you want longbow to be include it's your game :smallsmile:

[Jurai]

Hmmm... Perplexing...

[Leuku]

I like it.


Zen Archery: At third level, you treat all ranged weapons as Monk weapons, with everything that entails.

Like most everyone is saying, I think this should be limited to Simple Ranged and Simple Thrown. The Monk is not really hamstrung by the relative lower damage die because a monk's attacks scale with monk level. However, what is missing from this subclass is interaction with the Bonus Action Unarmed Strike and Flurry of Blows. The reason the monk is limited to smaller damage die sizes is because of its ability to make more attacks sooner than other classes. Zen Archery is a subclass meant for monks who want to focus on ranged combat, but as this subclass currently stands it's going to lose out on half its damage potential by not accommodating the monk's attack mechanics.

I made a monk subclass that focuses on weapons (link you can find in my signature), and in it you can see how I scale and write when and how the monk gets to mesh Martial Arts and flurry of blows with their weapons. I was very careful in matching damage expectations of a normal monk vs. my weapons monk.


Pierce the Void: At sixth level, you may spend 1 Ki point and your bonus action before the result of a ranged weapon attack roll is revealed. You may roll a Dexterity check with a DC 18. If you succeed, the attack redirects and hits the target.

I would repeat the attack roll rather than using a Dexterity check. Simpler and more straightforward.


Clout Step: At eleventh level, you may make a ranged weapon attack targeting a space on the ground within close range. You may then spend 5 Ki points to cast Dimension Door, with your destination being the location where the arrow landed.

Close Range? I think you mean "Normal" range. Amend the wording to: "you may make a ranged or thrown weapon attack within the weapon's normal range." Also, I don't think it's necessary to limit it to "Targeting a space on the ground". Monks have a feature that mitigates falling damage, right? It'd be cool, I think, if the monk could throw a weapon high in to the air and then Dimension Door there. Also, regarding Ki Cost, I think we can follow the Shadow Monk's Ki cost system as opposed to the Elemental Monk's. The spells the Shadow Monk can cast using Ki aren't offensive damage spells, and neither is Dimension Door, so I think it'd be OK to make Dimension Door cost 4 Ki. Also, you need to stipulate what type of action this feature requires. And lastly, do you need to make an attack roll for the ranged weapon attack?


Noisome Rain, Silent Death: At seventeenth level, you may spend 6 Ki Points as an action. You then make a ranged weapon attack roll. Every opponent within one half of your weapon’s close range with an AC below the result of the attack roll takes damage as though hit by your ranged weapon, and then must make a Dexterity save or acquire the Grappled condition as the projectiles pin them to the ground.

I think it's fine to make it the weapon's normal range rather than half the weapon's normal range. It's 17th level, for god's sake!

Question: How do grappled targets escape the grapple? What do they contest?

[Jurai]

I like it.



Like most everyone is saying, I think this should be limited to Simple Ranged and Simple Thrown. The Monk is not really hamstrung by the relative lower damage die because a monk's attacks scale with monk level. However, what is missing from this subclass is interaction with the Bonus Action Unarmed Strike and Flurry of Blows. The reason the monk is limited to smaller damage die sizes is because of its ability to make more attacks sooner than other classes. Zen Archery is a subclass meant for monks who want to focus on ranged combat, but as this subclass currently stands it's going to lose out on half its damage potential by not accommodating the monk's attack mechanics.

I made a monk subclass that focuses on weapons (link you can find in my signature), and in it you can see how I scale and write when and how the monk gets to mesh Martial Arts and flurry of blows with their weapons. I was very careful in matching damage expectations of a normal monk vs. my weapons monk.



I would repeat the attack roll rather than using a Dexterity check. Simpler and more straightforward.



Close Range? I think you mean "Normal" range. Amend the wording to: "you may make a ranged or thrown weapon attack within the weapon's normal range." Also, I don't think it's necessary to limit it to "Targeting a space on the ground". Monks have a feature that mitigates falling damage, right? It'd be cool, I think, if the monk could throw a weapon high in to the air and then Dimension Door there. Also, regarding Ki Cost, I think we can follow the Shadow Monk's Ki cost system as opposed to the Elemental Monk's. The spells the Shadow Monk can cast using Ki aren't offensive damage spells, and neither is Dimension Door, so I think it'd be OK to make Dimension Door cost 4 Ki. Also, you need to stipulate what type of action this feature requires. And lastly, do you need to make an attack roll for the ranged weapon attack?



I think it's fine to make it the weapon's normal range rather than half the weapon's normal range. It's 17th level, for god's sake!

Question: How do grappled targets escape the grapple? What do they contest?

Concerns settled, I hope.