Making an Illiterate Rogue

[Alent]

So, a weird thing came up during character creation last night, and I could swear I remember seeing something about this in the rules back when the PHB came out, but I couldn't find it in the heat of character creation while also trying to explain 5e to my friends.

I'm trying to create a Rogue that can't read or write, and was hoping to find some rules to support that concept since the system's base assumption is literacy.

The DM is cool with it, so it's not like it's a big deal if I can't find any rules to support it, but it's driving my inner simulationist nuts to not have a rules citation.

[Naanomi]

Just make it happen, no compensation but it's just a background element anyways. Try not to pick up too many languages in general so as to not waste too much 'benefit'.

Good thing about no mechanical ties is you can 'get over it' if you want later. A street urchin not knowing how to read is great; your level 18 guy who has been granted a royal title and travelled the planes not so much

[Gritmonger]

If you really want to simulationist it - maybe they don't know mostly how to read and write - but recognize a few word shapes from "Tavern" and "Danger" and the like.

Have them make a straight-up Intelligence check when reading something short or important. Have the GM treat it as a trap or lockpick in terms of DC, and not tell you the DC. It most likely would come up if your character ends up alone with no assistance - let the GM tell you what it "means" as far as what you can get based on how close you got to the DC.

Pictures can lower the DC.

[Magic Myrmidon]

You should ask your DM if you'll be immune to spells/curses that go off after someone reads a message. I don't think explosive runes is a thing anymore, but it might come up.

[Slipperychicken]

You could just be functionally illiterate, where you can recognize basic messages, but can't read or write long sentences.

If you want to be fully illiterate, just say your character can't read. It's as simple as that. Most games won't even require much reading.



Good thing about no mechanical ties is you can 'get over it' if you want later. A street urchin not knowing how to read is great; your level 18 guy who has been granted a royal title and travelled the planes not so much

Honestly, an illiterate-but-smart high level character sounds really interesting. He might even be academically-inclined and get friends or servants to read books to him.

[Naanomi]

honestly, an illiterate-but-smart high level character sounds really interesting. He might even be academically-inclined and get friends or servants to read books to him.
Of course, but characters also evolve; and if you *want* to become more educated and worldly as you progress there won't be mechanical costs in your way. I wasn't implying that you have to do so.

[Chronos]

Quoth Gritmonger:

If you really want to simulationist it - maybe they don't know mostly how to read and write - but recognize a few word shapes from "Tavern" and "Danger" and the like.
I remember a time when I was young, and just starting to learn to read: I couldn't actually read yet, but I could recognize the letters, and tell what the first level of a word was, and guess (with various degrees of success) what the word was based on the first letter and its length. This would also give your DM a way to present it: "It's a long word that starts with M".

Oh, and tavern signs shouldn't be a problem, since most medieval tavern signs were designed for illiterate patrons: The sign for The Prancing Pony would be a picture of a dancing horse, and so on.

[ChubbyRain]

My Outlander's background is that he was "raised by wolves". I took that pretty literal and made it where he didn't learn to read or write, learned to speak, but not to read or write.

I made an Outlander Rogue, might make him illiterate for the fun of it.

[PeterM]

Oh, and tavern signs shouldn't be a problem, since most medieval tavern signs were designed for illiterate patrons: The sign for The Prancing Pony would be a picture of a dancing horse, and so on.

That would really depend on the artistic skills of the person who painted the sign, though. You might want to name your inn The Prancing Pony, but if you lowball the sign you might be stuck with calling it The Flatulent Jackass, The Clumsy Clydesdale or The Epileptic Eohippus.

Granted, that last one would probably only fly in an area with high literacy.

[Chronos]

I think that, in practice, most inns just started with the picture, and the name arose out of consensus of the patrons. So the proprietor might have been trying for Clumsy Clydesdale, but the patrons thought Prancing Pony was funnier, and it just stuck. You might even end up with the happy hour crowd and the closing-time crowd calling the same pub by different names (both consistent with the sign).

[eastmabl]

So, a weird thing came up during character creation last night, and I could swear I remember seeing something about this in the rules back when the PHB came out, but I couldn't find it in the heat of character creation while also trying to explain 5e to my friends.

I'm trying to create a Rogue that can't read or write, and was hoping to find some rules to support that concept since the system's base assumption is literacy.

The DM is cool with it, so it's not like it's a big deal if I can't find any rules to support it, but it's driving my inner simulationist nuts to not have a rules citation.

Choose a background like Urchin or Criminal. Make illiteracy your flaw, like "I feel shame that I never learned to read or write, but I always pretend that I am able to do so."

Any time that it would be useful for you to read something in Common (or any other language you speak), you would try to do so.

- If no one from the party picks up on it, you could fail forward.
- If someone picks up on it and reads it, you feel shame.

Either way, you can get Inspiration from having RPed your illiterate character.

[Slipperychicken]

Any time that it would be useful for you to read something in Common (or any other language you speak), you would try to do so.

- If no one from the party picks up on it, you could fail forward.
- If someone picks up on it and reads it, you feel shame.

Either way, you can get Inspiration from having RPed your illiterate character.

I figure that an illiterate character would have learned to conceal it subtly, doing things like handing the message off to a friend while saying something like "look at this" or "check this out", or pretending to be distracted while waiting for others to express the text's message. Also, illiteracy is hardly cause for shame in a medieval setting where there's basically no formal education, handwritten books are expensive, and where most people don't need to read as part of their everyday lives. Signs would have pictures on them, and if a message needs to be conveyed, someone will speak it aloud.

Also, I think it bears repeating that many characters, even illiterate ones, may have learned to read basic symbols like numbers if doing so was important to daily life.

[Person_Man]

FYI, very, very few people are fully illiterate. Those who are either have a severe medical condition related to sight or memory, or live in a very rural and isolated existence without any exposure to written language. On the flip side, roughly 20-30% of the current population in most educated and industrialized countries are functionally illiterate in some major ways, depending on how you define it and which country you're in. For example, you might be able to sign your name and communicate in slang via text messages and Facebook, but can't comprehend a job announcement, bank statement, news, magazines, books, taxes, street maps, subway signs, recipes, instructions, etc.

So when you're asking to be illiterate, you should probably specify if you're incapable of reading at all (severe dyslexia or aphasia) or just have difficulty doing do because of a lack of education or exposure to written language (ie, most non-wealthy individuals prior to widespread public education).

An now, I must find a catgirl to murder.

[eastmabl]

I figure that an illiterate character would have learned to conceal it subtly, doing things like handing the message off to a friend while saying something like "look at this" or "check this out", or pretending to be distracted while waiting for others to express the text's message. Also, illiteracy is hardly cause for shame in a medieval setting where there's basically no formal education, handwritten books are expensive, and where most people don't need to read as part of their everyday lives. Signs would have pictures on them, and if a message needs to be conveyed, someone will speak it aloud.

Also, I think it bears repeating that many characters, even illiterate ones, may have learned to read basic symbols like numbers if doing so was important to daily life.

If you have seen Charlie Day's character on It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, this is how I would imagine the character to act. Admittedly, as per Person_Man, Charlie's illiteracy is a result of a medical condition and not lack of education.

It is true that in medieval times that illliteracy was nothing to be ashamed of. Instead, make it part of your flaw as a noble background - father sent you to learn at a school or with a tutor for a number of years, and you could never manage to learn to read. Luckily, the tutor/school taught you **another relevant skill or ability, like swordplay or how to bargain your way into a good deal. **

What I'm trying to do is present the OP with an opportunity to make his illiteracy via the avenue of the flaw in his background. It also helps that it can serve a mechanical advantage (Inspiration).

And Person_Man, what's that about a catgirl?

[Slipperychicken]

And Person_Man, what's that about a catgirl?

It's a reference to an old meme, dating back to simulationist discussions in least 3.5: it went something like "Every time you use real-world physics in the context a fantasy RPG, a catgirl dies. Please, think of the catgirls." As such, excessive use of real-world physics was sometimes called "catgirl slaughter" or such, and some who engaged in such discussion began to take pride in their destruction of imaginary furries, even jokingly advocating "catgirl genocide". It was gradually expanded to include the use of other real-world sciences (in this case sociology/anthropology) in the context of fantasy games, but the meme has fallen out of use somewhat since 3.X.

[Person_Man]

And Person_Man, what's that about a catgirl?

http://sellingoutforfunandprofit.com/images/catgirltpreview.jpg

[eastmabl]

Apparently, I missed that part of the 3.5 message board action.

[Arc-Royal]

Amusingly enough, I'm using this sort of concept as a character flaw for a monk I'm preparing for a friend's campaign. She's working on learning how to read, but having been a slave for most of her life up to present, she wasn't exactly afforded a proper education of any kind.

The first time I ever come across a lever labeled "Do Not Pull," I plan to misread it as "Donut Pull" and pull it in the hopes of receiving a doughnut.

Inspiration, here I come!

[goto124]

Please bring donuts IRL.

[Alent]

Ack, last week my job had me so tired I forgot to check this sub forum for replies. :smalleek:

Thanks for the feedback, all. I'd hoped for a mechanical set of rules to glance over, but like I said, the DM's cool with it, so we just went with it as flavor. This weekend's session went pretty good, the character played nicely. It's my first time actually playing 5th, I've DM'd a few oneshots, so it was nice to be on the player side of the dice with the system.

To go with the comments about why the character is Illiterate, he's lived his entire life in a migrant caravan in a world that's slowly turning to desert. The caravan keeps being forced to leave areas as they slowly waste away, and traditional education just isn't happening since survival is more important. So he's good at thievery and cant, killing, survival, navigating, etc., but simply wasn't taught reading and writing. I roleplay him out with an obviously fake deep brooklyn accent and I've discovered I need to write down a list of cant words for my DM before I use them again. Apparently nobody else at the table can understand it at all. I don't profess to know it all that well, but I ended up reading the tale of the Kin books recently and surprised myself when the phrases slipped out while roleplaying.

OOC, he's a recreation of my only 2e character from our all day 2e oneshot a few years back, a rogue who accidentally ended up illiterate because we were using NWPs and having come from 3.5, I didn't realize I had to actually take the ability to read and write to read, and instead of giving up one of my skills I decided to roleplay it out and had everyone else reading and writing signs, letters, notes, and so on for me. Back then one of the quests we had to take was to deal with Cockatrices, which the character promptly declared "Chick'n-lizahds." He was fun to play back then, so I brought him back. :smallbiggrin: