Rogue, Ninja, and Slayer

[Shadowscale]

All three of these classes are going for the whole stealth angle and seem to be a balance between skills and combat. My questions for discussing are what would y'all consider the pros of each class and the cons? What does each class do best and the worst? Slayer essentially being a full BAB version of assassin without alignment restrictions is always nice. Come to think of it do y'all feel all 3 classes would be a good fit for Crimson and core assassins?

[grarrrg]

There isn't all that much a Rogue can do that a Ninja can't.

Slayer is the king of TWF, as he can pump STR, mostly ignore DEX, and still get all the TWF-line.

[Shadowscale]

There isn't all that much a Rogue can do that a Ninja can't.

Slayer is the king of TWF, as he can pump STR, mostly ignore DEX, and still get all the TWF-line.

Come to think of it can the rogue do anything the ninja can't except being western?
How would you size up ninja to slayer then who is better at what?

[Kurald Galain]

The Ninja has swift action invisibility. That by itself is a very compelling reason to play one.

[Shadowscale]

The Ninja has swift action invisibility. That by itself is a very compelling reason to play one.

In combat can that compensate for a lower BAB though?

[Kurald Galain]

In combat can that compensate for a lower BAB though?

Well, it gives +2 to hit and a free shot at sneak attack, plus it improves your defense by a lot. So I'd say yes it does.

[Secret Wizard]

1. Rogues, without the Pathfinder Unchained buffs, have only a few specialized combat builds that work. Namely, the Thug Scout, the Gun Twirler Rake, and the Circling Mongoose Swashbuckler. Otherwise, you are looking at a non-combat build such as the Counterfeit Mage.

2. Ninjas have two builds that rock. The Invisible Blade standard build Power Attack with a katana from the shadows and the Scout with Unarmed Strike Master and Pummeling Style (yes, you can take Rogue archetypes that replace Uncanny Dodge/Imp Uncanny Dodge).

3. Slayers are more versatile. You have TWF Slayers; you have Achaekek-following Slayers who can use their Combat Style feats to pick up TW Feint and Imp TW Feint without having to take that pesky Combat Expertise or Imp Feint feat; you have ranged Slayers; you have 2H Slayers; you have switch hitting Slayers... They lend themselves to more alternatives because they have less pressing matters on their build, they don't need to fix their Fortitude saves, they have access to medium armor, and they have good BAB so they don't require to invest so much in accuracy and can focus on damage instead.

[danzibr]

Well, it gives +2 to hit and a free shot at sneak attack, plus it improves your defense by a lot. So I'd say yes it does.
And they don't get DEX to AC.

Unfortunately I don't know much of PF, but after perusing Slayer, I can say I friggin' love this class. And I like PF Ninja too. Rogue... seems alright. Not much better than 3.5.

[Elricaltovilla]

Haven't mucked around with slayers much, but Ninjas are friggin awesome. It's not just swift action invisibility, it's swift action greater invisibility as soon as you get advanced ninja tricks. That means they have the easiest time setting up full attacks with sneak attacks out of anybody. Gotta love hitting that flat footed AC too.

[Milo v3]

If unchained isn't used, then there is really no reason to ever take levels in rogue. It's worst at everything out of rogue, ninja, and slayer.

If unchained is used, it can be the best at debuffs out of the three and it is the best skill monkey.

[Shadowscale]

If unchained isn't used, then there is really no reason to ever take levels in rogue. It's worst at everything out of rogue, ninja, and slayer.

If unchained is used, it can be the best at debuffs out of the three and it is the best skill monkey.

As far as I was aware unchained wasn't released yet, what do rogues get, and how do y'all know?

[Kudaku]

Subscribers get the PDF copy of Unchained early. There's a ton of discussion of the new classes on the Paizo forums.

[Elricaltovilla]

As far as I was aware unchained wasn't released yet, what do rogues get, and how do y'all know?

They get dex to attack and damage by level 3, and the ability to apply scaling debuffs to AC or attack rolls in place of Sneak Attack damage. I only know this second hand though.

[Milo v3]

As far as I was aware unchained wasn't released yet, what do rogues get, and how do y'all know?

People who were subscribed to the RPG line got their Unchained PDF's as soon as their hardcopies are shipped, so they got their PDF's before the 29th. As far as what they get; apparently they get weapon finesse at level 1, they get dex to damage at 3rd level, a thing called Skill Unlocks where they get enhanced abilities with their skills, they can now sneak attack from shadows and concealment, and they have a thing where they can apply debuff's with their sneak attacks.

[Kudaku]

I'm working on a review of Pathfinder Unchained, which can be found here (http://paizo.com/people/Kudaku/reviews). So far I've only done the first chapter, but there's a fairly comprehensive breakdown of that. I'll be adding more to the review as I continue to read through the book. :smallsmile: