Best uses for Heroics?

[Story]

What are the best uses for Heroics? I'm particularly interested in utility options, rather than "buff a fighter slightly more". The open ended nature of the spell makes it seem like it could be very versatile (especially with Martial Study), but I'm not familiar with any common uses.

[Hiro Quester]

This is incredibly useful for those very situational feats that your party members --reasonably-- don't want to invest in, but can save lives when that situation arises.

My previous Bard/sublime chord PC took the Heartier Fanner PrC. This includes a bardic music that works like a temporary heroics spell, but giving a free fighter bonus feat (player's choice) to everyone in the party.

This song was one of the most requested buffs (after dragonfire inspiration). The song worked on everyone except the singer. I got wand of heroics for use on myself because I came to appreciate the incredible utility of temporary use of a fighter bonus feat.

The wizard usually took improved initiative. When we got the surprise round I sang this song and suggested that everyone take improved initiative (Bardic mass nerveskitter).

The try-before-you-buy opportunity to get temporary use of a feat you are considering taking was useful to a few party members.

It was especially useful for the highly situational feats. Giving everyone who needed it Blind-fight was also useful when allies were fighting invisible creatures.

Giving our rear-guard tank access to Tunnel Fighting was useful that one time we were being pursued through a very narrow hallway.

When our party tank was challenged to a wrestling match by a grappling monk, I could help him gain Close-Quarters Fighting to AOO on grapple attempts (undermining the Monk's improved grapple) and to add that damage to grapple-checks to avoid the grapple.

I (and the party sorcerer) sometimes took combat panache for the intimidate move action that made your CHA bonus a penalty to the opponent's attack rolls. For some opponents that made me impossible to hit with anything but a natural 20. Or during a combat in which more than one opponent faced me I could use the bluff check to make an opponent hit his ally instead of me.

If ToB is open, Heroics can enable Martial Stance. This lets a PC with initiator levels to use any stance from a discipline in which he knows a maneuver. This can add another dimension of useful options and flexibility.

[chaos_redefined]

Martial Study/Stance is a great option in a lot of circumstances.
Blindfight is useful when it's useful, and completely worthless when it doesn't apply.
At 20th level, if the Warblade qualifies, it is the only way to give him/her Weapon Supremacy.
Similarly, if someone just got to the point that they qualified for a feat, but haven't had the oppurtunity to actually get that feat, then you can use this to give them that feat in boss battles.

[Eno Remnant]

Cast it on an ally, and then get a permanent item of Mirror Move. You can teach yourself every feat the spell applies for.

This trick is courtesy of Harry Potter and the Natural 20, for the record.

[ben-zayb]

DCFS:smallbiggrin:

[SinsI]

Use them to get feats to qualify for overpowered classes like Spell Dancer Prc to easily persist spells in the morning. And since Persisted spells last for 24 hours, you can Persist Heroics too... :)

Extra bonus for using it for Martial Study, since this way you will be able to exchange the maneuvers known - much better than the regular version. It's almost like you are playing Chameleon with his floating feat!

[Story]

Are there any particularly useful martial maneuvers? A non-TOB class is going to typically have 1/2 CL initiator level and none of the prerequisites, which limits things a lot.

Also, the (Ex) Teleportation of Shadow Jaunt is sadly not so useful if you need a spell to get it.

[SinsI]

Are there any particularly useful martial maneuvers? A non-TOB class is going to typically have 1/2 CL initiator level and none of the prerequisites, which limits things a lot.

Also, the (Ex) Teleportation of Shadow Jaunt is sadly not so useful if you need a spell to get it.
That's obviously for Gishes with classes that progress both, like Ruby Knight Vindicator.

[Troacctid]

The teleportation is very useful when you have a spell that can do it or any number of other things, as opposed to a spell that only teleports you. Versatility is valuable.

[chaos_redefined]

The other good option is on a War Weaver. Giving all party members the ability to heal someone 1d6+5 adds up pretty quickly.

[jiriku]

I did a quick check of what I felt the most generally useful maneuvers were up to initiator level 6th (if you're not a martial initiator, you'd need to be 14 HD or higher to benefit from anything more). Tier 1 abilities can be granted with a single casting of heroics. A tier 2 ability would require a second casting, assuming the first casting was used to select an appropriate prerequisite. I paid special attention to abilities that are likely to be generally useful if you use War Weaver or Reach Spell + Chain Spell to share the buff across the whole party and all its cohorts, pets, minions, summoned creatures, etc.

Interesting ideas:

You can remove negative levels with two castings of heroics long before you can get access to restoration (select Martial Study: Wall of Blades and Martial Study: Iron Heart Surge). Saves you 100 gp too.
If you can share the spell around, two castings gets you Martial Study: Burning Blade plus Martial Stance: Holocaust Cloak. If shared onto a large group of summoned monsters that are able to make multiple attacks (such as claw/claw/bite) and take at least two hits to kill, you're potentially looking at 20 - 30 additional fire damage per critter.



Martial Study (choices up to initiator level 6th)
Tier 1
- Burning Blade (Desert Wind 1) (+1d6+6 fire on all attacks)
- Death Mark (Desert Wind 3) (normal damage + AoE 6d6 fire)
- Vanguard Strike (Devoted Spirit 1) (allies gain +4 attack vs foe)
- Action Before Thought (Diamond Mind 2) (Concentration vs Reflex save)
- Mind over Body (Diamond Mind 3) (Concentration vs Fortitude save)
- Wall of Blades (Iron Heart 2) (contested attack roll vs attack)
- Counter Charge (Setting Sun 1) (contested ability check vs charge attack)
- Cloak of Deception (Shadow Hand 2) (swift invisibility)
- Shadow Jaunt (Shadow Hand 2) (teleport 50 ft)
- Shadow Garrotte (Shadow Hand 3) (ranged touch 5d6 + flat-footed)
- Leading the Attack (White Raven 1) (allies gain +4 attack vs foe)

Tier 2

- Fan the Flames (Desert Wind 3) (ranged touch 6d6 fire)
- Holocaust Cloak (Desert Wind 3) (5 fire reactive damage)
- Zephyr Dance (Desert Wind 3) (+4 AC vs attack)
- Iron Guard's Glare*** (Devoted Spirit 1) (foes within reach take -4 vs allies)
- Martial Spirit*** (Devoted Spirit 1) (heal 2 with each hit)
- Revitalizing Strike (Devoted Spirit 3) (normal damage + heal 3d6+6)
- Thicket of Blades (Devoted Spirit 3) (hit shifting foe)
- Pearl of Black Doubt (Diamond Mind 3) (+2 AC each time foe misses)
- Absolute Steel Stance*** (Iron Heart 3) (+10 speed, +2 AC when moving)
- Iron Heart Surge (Iron Heart 3) (remove ongoing condition)
- Punishing Stance*** (Iron Heart 1) (+1d6 melee damage, -2 AC)
- Giant Killing Style*** (Setting Sun 3) (+2 attack, +4 damage vs big foes)
- Assassin's Stance*** (Shadow Hand 3) (+2d6 sneak attack)
- Dance of the Spider*** (Shadow Hand 3) (spider climb)
- Child of Shadow*** (Shadow Hand 2) (concealment if you move)
- Hunter's Sense*** (Tiger Claw 2) (gain scent)
- Bolstering Voice*** (White Raven 1) (allies gain +2 Will saves, +4 vs fear)
- Battle Leader's Charge (White Raven 2) (charge damage +10)
- Leading the Charge*** (White Raven 1) (allies gain +6 charge damage)
- White Raven Tactics (White Raven 3) (ally takes another turn)
- Tactics of the Wolf*** (White Raven 3) (allies gain +6 flank damage)

***Stance

[Brova]

To chime in on the Martial Study use, it's not just for low-level utility maneuvers - you can use it for a floating maneuver or stance on a regular martial adept. Why have one 9th level maneuver when you can have all of them?

[ben-zayb]

Don't forget that your initiator levels also determine if you can initiate a maneuver, such as Iron Heart Surge requiring IL5 (i.e. 10 non-initiator HD)

[Story]

Wow, I'd never heard of Wall of Blades before! Does that really let you block touch attacks? The mental image of stopping Disintegrate with a sword is hilarious.

Shame it's only 1/encounter if you're not an initiator.

[jiriku]

Apart from Martial Study/Stance, I haven't found much else that's not just an incremental improvement on being a fighter. Here are some effective/unusual choices to consider.

- Ballista Proficiency
- Blind Fight
- Block Arrow (HoB 96) (1/round auto-deflect arrow with shield)
- Combat Focus (+2 Will saves after first successful attack, required Wis 13)
- Constant Guardian (Und 47) (take -2 attack to grant +2 AC to ally)
- Dutiful Guardian (Und 47) (take a hit meant for your friend, requires Constant Guardian)
- Improved Initiative
- Danger Sense (CAdv 106) (reroll initiative 1/day, requires Improved Initiative)
- Spectral Skirmisher (PH2 83, advantages while invisible, requires BAB +6)

[Andezzar]

Wow, I'd never heard of Wall of Blades before! Does that really let you block touch attacks? The mental image of stopping Disintegrate with a sword is hilarious.Yup. If it is a ranged or melee attack, it can be stopped.