Sizes and weapons

[TheCrowing1432]

On the weapon size chart for damage, is that the size of the weapon or the size of the wielder?

[holywhippet]

The wielder. The size on the chart indicates the size of the person it is intended to be wielded by. Hence the reason why you have both daggers and two handed swords with a M size listing.

[TheCrowing1432]

The wielder. The size on the chart indicates the size of the person it is intended to be wielded by. Hence the reason why you have both daggers and two handed swords with a M size listing.

So if a human picks up a dagger and then hands it to his halfling companion, the dagger would do different damage depending on who is holding it?

[Curmudgeon]

So if a human picks up a dagger and then hands it to his halfling companion, the dagger would do different damage depending on who is holding it?
There's a rule for that.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons
A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

[holywhippet]

No. Well, yes but mostly no. Each weapon is designed for a person of a certain size. You can get daggers for medium sized creatures like humans which do 1d4 damage. You can also get daggers for small sized creatures like halflings which do 1d3 damage. Weapons are designed to be wielded by a person of a specific size, if you try to wield a weapon that is the wrong size you get penalties on your attack rolls.

A human could hand a halfling a dagger and it would do the same damage, but you'd get a size penalty to hit. You'd also get a different amount of damage if their strength bonuses were different but otherwise the dagger would do the same amount of damage.

[TheCrowing1432]

There's a rule for that.


...

So...what you got to just....pick through the bandits treasure room and HOPE theres a weapon your halfling character can use?


What about magic weapons?

Being small just sucks doesnt it?

[torrasque666]

...

So...what you got to just....pick through the bandits treasure room and HOPE theres a weapon your halfling character can use?


What about magic weapons?

Being small just sucks doesnt it?

Not when you start shanking them in the kneecaps and becoming a devout follower of the Halfling God of Groinshots.

[Thurbane]

Well, in the average campaign most of the loot you find will be for medium sized creatures. You'll get small weapons and armor when you fight goblins, kobolds and similar...

[holywhippet]

Basically yes. The rules compendium outlines that equipment, armor and weapons, don't resize for a different size category.

The idea, I believe, is for the DM to conveniently place some size/class appropriate equipment amongst the loot. Failing that, you need to get money and have your equipment made for you.

[Ashtagon]

The wielder. The size on the chart indicates the size of the person it is intended to be wielded by. Hence the reason why you have both daggers and two handed swords with a M size listing.

My understanding was that it was always based on the size of the weapon, and that to change teh damage, you change teh size of the weapon, not the size of the wielder.

Got a cite for this interpretation of yours?

[Chronikoce]

My understanding was that it was always based on the size of the weapon, and that to change teh damage, you change teh size of the weapon, not the size of the wielder.

Got a cite for this interpretation of yours?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize
First line: "Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed."

And if you choose to use the wrong sized weapon: "Inappropriately Sized Weapons
A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies."

[Ashtagon]

I read that too and dont agree with what your ibterpretation is. Your interpretation renders every build that allows wielding of oversizes weapons irrlevant.

[Curmudgeon]

My understanding was that it was always based on the size of the weapon, and that to change teh damage, you change teh size of the weapon, not the size of the wielder.
That's correct, as far as it goes. You may not be able to wield a weapon that's inappropriately sized, in which case your damage potential goes to zero instead of increasing with weapon size.

[Ashtagon]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize

Damage

The Damage columns give the damage dealt by the weapon on a successful hit. The column labeled "Dmg (S)" is for Small weapons. The column labeled "Dmg (M)" is for Medium weapons. If two damage ranges are given then the weapon is a double weapon. Use the second damage figure given for the double weapon’s extra attack. Table: Larger and Smaller Weapon Damage gives weapon damage values for weapons of various sizes.

That pretty clearly indicates that it is the size of the weapon is what determines the damage, not the size of the wielder.

[Rijan_Sai]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize
First line: "Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed."


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize


That pretty clearly indicates that it is the size of the weapon is what determines the damage, not the size of the wielder.

The full text of the paragraph that Chronikoce linked to is:

A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.
So a Medium dagger would be a Tiny object, a Medium short sword would be Small and a Medium Greatsword would be Medium. The "Dmg (S)" or "Dmg (M)" is indicative of the wielder's size.

And yes, the weapon's size in that regards is what determines the damage - a Small dagger (one made for a Small character) will do 1d3 regardless of who wields it, as a Medium dagger will do 1d4.