Stronghold 2

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

I recently bought this PC game from a used store. Now I'm not a huge sim/strategy game fan, but, I actually find I really like this game. The learning curve isn't too bad, and it's turning out to be a lot of fun so far. I was just wondering if anyone else has played the game, and what their thoughts are on it.

[Ethdred]

I've not played the game but it looks interesting, and I was wondering whether to get it. But I don't really know much about it. You say you don't play much sim/strategy but can you (or anyone else) compare this to any other games I might know? What's the game play like? Mainly building or mainly combat? Is the AI any good? Is it missions only or can you do random campaigns/games? Is it a real-time or turn based? These are the sort of questions I normally want to know about games :)

[Timarvay]

Well, I have it and love it, but there are some flaws. There are a lot of noticeable bugs, and things in the manual that seem to have been left out. I also cannot find a way to adjust the difficulty in skirmish or the campaign, leaving me with no challenge.

[Maxymiuk]

I've not played the game but it looks interesting, and I was wondering whether to get it. But I don't really know much about it. You say you don't play much sim/strategy but can you (or anyone else) compare this to any other games I might know?

Knowing what strategy/warfare games you know would be good to know.
Basically the game is a cross between an economy sim in a medieval setting and a warfare/strategy game with the main focus on sieges - though it's also possible to play in a sandbox scenario, where you can take the time to make your keep all pretty, and to explore the advanced economic options.


What's the game play like?

Mostly the game boils down to either executing a siege, or defending your castle from one. A decent selection of troop types, a load of various siege engines, and plenty of nasty tricks for the defender to kill off as many attackers as possible before they even get within bowshot of the castle walls.


Mainly building or mainly combat?

A lot of both. Multitasking is a necessity here, since you'll be splitting your time between training troops, seeing to the defenses, and keeping the granary stocked with enough food that your people won't starve. One very annoying aspect of this game is the 50% crime rate among your population (the computer never seems to have the problem). That little innovation nearly discouraged me from playing that game in the beginning - I mean, how the hell am I supposed to wage a war when all of my swordsmiths and half the armorers are in stocks, or in the dungeon, awaiting trial?


Is the AI any good?

The computer opponents have speed on their side. In skirmish there's a number of AI opponents to choose from, and each one comes with several preprogrammed castle layouts. So while they're quickly setting those up, you're still trying to make sure the path to the Lord's Kitchen is still clear, and that the oxen hauling stone don't have to run all the way around your walls to get to the storehouse.
The AI is also a champion of sending quick, small raids to set fire to any farms and production buildings that aren't protected by walls. Nothing pisses off more that seeing your granary (and all the food in it) go up in flames.
Where the computer opponents fail is at sustained sieges. They'll build a couple of catapults, bang on your walls for awhile, and then send in the horde to be shot apart by your archers and crossbowmen. Also, they're woefully incompetent at fending off countercharges or in fact any sort of aggressive defense tactics.


Is it missions only or can you do random campaigns/games?

The campaign itself is pretty simple, and over way too fast. There's more fun to be had on the skirmish maps, where you can play with up to 7 other opponents, AI or multiplayer.


Is it a real-time or turn based? These are the sort of questions I normally want to know about games :)

Everything's real time, and unfortunately, I don't believe you can use active pause.

Other notes: The aforementioned crime problem, the fact that a quarter of your maximum workman population has to be kept busy being town guardsmen, keeping down the rat population, and carting off *cough* fertilizer, did a lot of damage to my enjoyment of the game. While the full 3d graphics are nice, and there are some very good ideas in the game as a whole, I still prefer its predecessor, Stronghold: Crusader. There I only have to worry about the opponent and the occasional fire.

[J_Muller]

I played the original Stronghold. It was quite enjoyable, though the campaign missions got rather difficult, and you should make sure to check your castle from all angles to make sure you haven't left any gaps in the wall. Don't know much about this sequel, though.

[Maldraugedhen]

I finished the economic campaign, and found it fairly enjoyable. I was annoyed by a few of the game's features, such as the fiefdom setup. You start with a buildable region of the map, of varying size depending on the map you are playing, and, as you advance, you may acquire additional neighboring fiefs. The problem I had was that you could not build contiguous walls across fief lines--instead, you were forced to leave a gap, which meant if there was a small pass that was shared between two fiefs, you couldn't save yourself some stone and wall it off because of the territory lines passing through the center.

Defending I tend to do well with, attacking I have trouble with. I know how to construct and / or exploit a defensive setup to my advantage, but tearing one down tends to be a bloody affair.

It also didn't really make sense that your campaigning army required no food, but that's a problem I had with the first game as well. Walls with a good mix of archers and crossbowmen, along with a significant number of pitch pits plus braziers for your archers, is a flaming death defense that few AI forces can beat. The traps can be fun and you can design some excellent defenses, but, in the end, its performance is always dependent on how the AI tries to attack it. I remember in the original Stronghold one of my friends would always leave one little gap in his wall on the extreme flank, dragging it into a tunnel 20~30 squares long, then dropped spike pits or pitch pits in, and every single time the opponent would attack, they would see a clear line to the keep and just rush the traps. Unsuccessfully, of course. AI exploits like that are what killed the first game for me, and irritatingly difficult siege scenarioes are what killed the second.

[Ethdred]

Thanks for those reviews people, really useful and highlighted most of the main things I was interested in. On balance, I think not a game worth investing in, mainly for the many annoyances you listed. Especially Maxymiuk's comments about AI raids. It is this sort of thing that I find really annoying in games - they are never threatening to your situation, just irritating and take time to fix that you could spend doing something fun. Also, I hate it when the AI wastes so many troops in this sort of raid when if it saved up its forces it could actually mount a serious attack. Ditto the crime rate - I could see myself getting really hacked off with that. A bit like the rebels in Europa Unversalis - I was so glad I found a cheat to turn them off.

And I would have expected the sieges to be a big part of this game, so if the AI is rubbish at them, then not really much point.

Sounds like this game would be fun for multiplayer, but I don't really do that so I'll skip it. Shame, as the concept seems right up my alley.

[Elliot Kane]

I liked it and I played it - to a point. But honestly I found it got boring after the first few missions. It's just that bit too fiddly at the wrong points (As Maxymiuk so well spells out in his post) and I found my interest drifted to other games without ever drifting back.

Like the original Stronghold, it's something I might replay on occasion in the future, but nothing I think I'll ever get round to finishing.