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Rubik
2015-04-20, 09:47 AM
For anyone here who doesn't know what they are (yeah, right), character flaws are from Unearthed Arcana, and they inflict a penalty on a character in exchange for a bonus feat of your choice. They tend to be numerical penalties that are on par with, or slightly stronger than, some of the less amazing feats out there. (-1 penalty to AC, as opposed to Dodge, which is +1 to AC vs one creature, for instance.)

But what if character flaws were a lot harsher? For instance, I homebrewed the following two flaws for a story I'm writing -- regarding a person who suddenly gains D&D abilities (and is turned into a monster) and can game the system as he likes, within RAW -- which are purposefully hard (though not impossible) to deal with, just to make his little min-maxing life more difficult. They are imposed upon him, and he has to deal with the fallout from them.


As a beast, you find wearing clothing excruciatingly uncomfortable.

Effect
Any time your body is covered by tangible equipment that isn't considered slotless or held, even regular clothing, you receive a -1 level penalty per body slot covered (to a minimum level of 1) until your body is once again uncovered and unrestricted. This level penalty is similar to incurring negative levels, except it cannot result in death when normal negative levels are applied, nor can the level penalty be removed short of removing the constricting items. It also cannot result in your hit points being reduced to 0 or below.

Special
Specific items of great importance to you are exempt from this flaw, such as a focus item, item familiar, or ancestral relic.
This severely nerfs his ability to use WBL, which is a major power boost to any character.


You rely on your chosen focus item for your special abilities.

Effect
Upon taking this flaw, choose a magical or mundane item you own. If this item is not on your person, whether equipped or held, you are unable to use any of your special abilities (Ex, Su, Sp, Ps, or spells) from class, race, feats, or other effects. Nor can you use the magical or psionic properties of items until your focus is once again in your possession. You may still utilize your natural abilities, and any items in your possession still retain any mundane uses they have.

Artifacts as well as cursed items are unaffected by this flaw, as are any items that are creatures in their own right.

Special
You may choose to conduct a ritual to replace your current focus item with a different one, such as if your focus item is destroyed, lost, or stolen. It costs no gold or experience; it does, however, require 2 days per level of uninterrupted solitude as you imprint your needs and desires on the item in question.This one introduces a huge weakness, and it makes sense in the context of the story, since his abilities are largely granted by a pair of goggles he wakes up with after being given his powers. They grant him the ability to interact with the rules on both a standard level and a meta level, and they're the only piece of body-slot equipment he's capable of using unless he pulls some tricks out of his metaphorical arse.

Now, a question: What kind of benefits should come with this increase in flaw potency? A single feat seems a little low, but I definitely don't want this to be a completely equal trade, since a player can choose both his flaw (to minimize its impact) and his feat(s) (to maximize his gain). Granted, the person/character in question doesn't get to choose his flaws, but I do want this to be potentially usable in a game where the player would get to choose.

Also, what other kinds of flaws would you make for something like this?

Xerlith
2015-04-20, 11:42 AM
This may sound bit mad, but... Three levels of gestalt progression instead of the standard one.


By the way - the first flaw seems fairly easy to exploit. Grab both Item Familiar and Ancestral Relic, with one of these preferably being an armor/clothing of some kind (if not a primary spellcaster), and none of the latter being the Focus for the first flaw. That's three items already. Investing in Ioun Stones is also a thing. There are also grafts.

And I think that a primary spellcaster (as always) gets the most mileage of this - Since they don't really need to rely on magic items worn and can store the focus pretty safely from medium-low levels.

Necroticplague
2015-04-20, 12:43 PM
The first is worth 1 feat, like most flaws. The first one only comes up if you make it, since the player can simply never wear equipment and be fine. Grafts, slotless magic items, Sculpt Self, ancestral relic, item familiars, all still available. It definitely hurts them, though, since a lot of these things are either time or resource intensive.

The second, on the other hand, is a horrible idea for a flaw. After all, while you have your focus, it does nothing. When you lose it, it could make a character completely useless. A good flaw should always have an effect.

j_spencer93
2015-04-20, 04:03 PM
I also make the players choose flaws that actually hinder their builds or atleast fit in their stories strongly. No taking something to penalize ranged if you have 0% interest in using ranged attacks.

geekintheground
2015-04-20, 04:16 PM
I also make the players choose flaws that actually hinder their builds or atleast fit in their stories strongly. No taking something to penalize ranged if you have 0% interest in using ranged attacks.

this has never really made sense to me from an in game perspective. if i have shaky hands (-1 on ranged attack rolls) why would i spend my life dedicating myself to using ranged attacks? dont get me wrong, i understand it from a balancey, game play perspective but still... as for the OP, my 1st thought for the 1st flaw was "so item familiar robes and im good to go? sounds good."

j_spencer93
2015-04-20, 04:19 PM
I would say that fell into the background area. If you story was you trained in melee because of the shaky feat then it would be ok. Another example closer to what I meant, if you choose a flaw that reduced skill you didn't even have on your class list then I wouldn't allow it. That would just be munchkin. Also, if you choose every flaw so that it didn't hinder your performance or atleast cause you to specialize then it might be a problem.

bekeleven
2015-04-20, 05:03 PM
FYI for the second flaw, there's no RAW way to disarm or sunder worn armor. That's why I use Armor item familiars when using that feat.

Rubik
2015-04-20, 05:07 PM
The first is worth 1 feat, like most flaws. The first one only comes up if you make it, since the player can simply never wear equipment and be fine. Grafts, slotless magic items, Sculpt Self, ancestral relic, item familiars, all still available. It definitely hurts them, though, since a lot of these things are either time or resource intensive.Alright. I can see it. Thanks.


The second, on the other hand, is a horrible idea for a flaw. After all, while you have your focus, it does nothing. When you lose it, it could make a character completely useless. A good flaw should always have an effect.Yeah, I see your point. It's like the wizard's spellbook. Either it's hardly any effect or it utterly neuters your effectiveness (but worse).

Have a suggestion on how to get it to do basically what I want it to do (enforce reliance on an item using the flaw) without falling into that particular pit? I rather want something in this vein, because plot. The character's abilities are granted by the item so long as he has it on him, which the flaw works to do as-is, but I'm not entirely sure how to finagle this and make it work as a reasonable flaw.

ExLibrisMortis
2015-04-20, 05:44 PM
You can use the addiction rules (BoVD) for item dependance, or if you want more short-term penalties, the rules for holding your breath, not drinking, not sleeping or not eating. You can reflavour the rules, which is probably best, or you can say something like 'you can't sleep without your goggles on, incurring fatigue penalties, but you can still rest to regain spells'. The second kind of mechanic makes it possible to circumvent the focus by becoming a construct or undead, for example.

martixy
2015-04-20, 06:31 PM
FYI for the second flaw, there's no RAW way to disarm or sunder worn armor. That's why I use Armor item familiars when using that feat.

Um....
Speedy Undress
Speedy Undress
Transmutation
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S.
Casting Time: 1 action.
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels).
Targets: One dressed target.
Duration: Instantaneous.
Saving Throw: Reflex negates.
Spell Resistance: Yes.
With a word and a gesture the target’s clothes fall
away from their body, leaving them naked apart from
the boots they are standing in. This includes any
armour but does not include helmets, hats or
jewellery.
The original purpose of this spell was for ogling and
pranks, as well as saving time when engaged in
quick knee-tremblers behind taverns. It has since
been misused by adventurers for denuding their
targets of their armour to make them easier kills, but
its original purpose remains popular.

bekeleven
2015-04-20, 07:11 PM
Um....
Speedy Undress
Speedy Undress
Transmutation
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S.
Casting Time: 1 action.
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels).
Targets: One dressed target.
Duration: Instantaneous.
Saving Throw: Reflex negates.
Spell Resistance: Yes.
With a word and a gesture the target’s clothes fall
away from their body, leaving them naked apart from
the boots they are standing in. This includes any
armour but does not include helmets, hats or
jewellery.
The original purpose of this spell was for ogling and
pranks, as well as saving time when engaged in
quick knee-tremblers behind taverns. It has since
been misused by adventurers for denuding their
targets of their armour to make them easier kills, but
its original purpose remains popular.

Locked belt
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 0
Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
Range: Personal
Duration: Instantaneous

You are immune to Speedy Undress. Forever.

Hey look, a spell with as much rules validity as anything by Mongoose Publishing.

sleepyphoenixx
2015-04-21, 01:24 AM
The first one is too restricting. It's basically half-VoP, with items (at best, with a lenient DM) costing double to be made slotless, but you get only one feat in exchange. If you give more feats the player will just spend them on everything that's allowed (relic, familiar, etc.). Also the "no clothing" requirement would be pretty limiting in any game with a minimum of RP.

The second has the same problems as Item Familiar: either your DM lets you keep it, which makes it a free feat. Or he takes it away, which cripples your character. A clever player will take the precautions that make DM fiat pretty much the only way to lose it, so it has a pretty good chance to generate OOC conflict as well. There's no middle ground.

As far as power level goes i think the -3 to saves, -6 initiative and -1HP/level are at a good spot. It's a tangible drawback that affects all characters without being crippling or effectively granting you a free feat.
To make flaws as strong as yours worthwhile you'd have to give benefits that will seriously impact balance, especially considering the rather binary nature of your suggestions.

Feats are supposed to be a limited resource. Giving more of them in exchange for drawbacks just leads to overspecialized characters that are all but crippled outside their chosen area, imo.

Rubik
2015-04-21, 01:56 AM
The first one is too restricting. It's basically half-VoP, with items (at best, with a lenient DM) costing double to be made slotless, but you get only one feat in exchange. If you give more feats the player will just spend them on everything that's allowed (relic, familiar, etc.). Also the "no clothing" requirement would be pretty limiting in any game with a minimum of RP.

The second has the same problems as Item Familiar: either your DM lets you keep it, which makes it a free feat. Or he takes it away, which cripples your character. A clever player will take the precautions that make DM fiat pretty much the only way to lose it, so it has a pretty good chance to generate OOC conflict as well. There's no middle ground.

As far as power level goes i think the -3 to saves, -6 initiative and -1HP/level are at a good spot. It's a tangible drawback that affects all characters without being crippling or effectively granting you a free feat.
To make flaws as strong as yours worthwhile you'd have to give benefits that will seriously impact balance, especially considering the rather binary nature of your suggestions.

Feats are supposed to be a limited resource. Giving more of them in exchange for drawbacks just leads to overspecialized characters that are all but crippled outside their chosen area, imo.I understand the points you're making. They're pretty valid, and I even agree with them for the most part, though I think that, for now, I'll stick with the flaws I've got for the story in question, unless something better comes up. Since I basically both DM and control the player, a lot of the problems aren't actually problems.

However, "-3 to saves, -6 initiative and -1HP/level" are...well...dull. Yes, they do as you suggest, but they're Boring-City. Having things more like the Delicious flaw would be far more fun. Infested With Chickens is great, not in spite of the fact that it's optimizable, but because it's optimizable.

I'd love to see more like those, really.