PrC for Warlock and Shadowcaster

[DurionArcanis]

Has anyone ever written up any PrC for these classes along the style of the various Theurge classes? I'd be really interested in playing with one if at all possible depending on how well it's written and whether whichever GM I'm playing with approves it. Tried google to no avail thus far.

NOTE: To avoid repeating myself to newcomers to the thread, I am NOT looking for a way to enter existing WotC dual spellcasting progression classes or really any existing WotC PrC. I am looking for a PrC designed to specifically combine Shadowcaster and Warlock. With the themes and mechanics of both classes in mind with its design, not just caster framework + "advances mysteries/advances invocations"

[j_spencer93]

one of the thuerge classes works just fine, take warlock 1, shadow caster 1, wizard 2 (i think) and then take the prc to advance warlock and shadow caster. take shadow caster next, trading off a level of wizard (or 2, idr if you can trade them all or nor), and continue as you wish. Pretty good build actually, seen it played. Works alot better apparently then it looks on paper.

[Kantolin]

If I recall correctly (And I may not, so be sure to check with a prospective DM), you could also argue that shadowcaster, due to the unusual interaction between shadowcaster and mystic theurge, qualifies for the casting on both sides... it just can't progress itself twice.

So thus you could just go shadowcaster 3 / warlock 1 / Mystic Theurge 10.

Probably not RAI (And I'm sure I'll be corrected shortly if my analysis of the RAW is incorrect), but from a game balance point of view the resulting character certainly won't be breaking the game or anything. Neither shadowcasters nor warlocks are powerful classes, heh, so this will probably only help.

[DurionArcanis]

one of the thuerge classes works just fine, take warlock 1, shadow caster 1, wizard 2 (i think) and then take the prc to advance warlock and shadow caster. take shadow caster next, trading off a level of wizard (or 2, idr if you can trade them all or nor), and continue as you wish. Pretty good build actually, seen it played. Works alot better apparently then it looks on paper.

By RAW you cannot trade off anything that is a prerequisite for something you have, so I'd be surprised if you can trade off any of the wizard levels via the encroaching darkness mechanic.

Also, the point wasn't to go into dips to enter the classes, the goal here was to use just Shadowcaster/Warlock and enter a PrC that way. I realize there are ways to cheese yourself into PrC's with spellcasting requirements, I've seen hundreds of builds that do it, that's not what I'm trying to do. I'd actually like to see a PrC that was made with the intent of combining Shadowcaster and Warlock, not just a "progresses both classes" PrC. Kind of like how the Eldritch Theurge actually has interesting mechanics to combine your spellcasting and warlock abilities.


If I recall correctly (And I may not, so be sure to check with a prospective DM), you could also argue that shadowcaster, due to the unusual interaction between shadowcaster and mystic theurge, qualifies for the casting on both sides... it just can't progress itself twice.

So thus you could just go shadowcaster 3 / warlock 1 / Mystic Theurge 10.

Probably not RAI (And I'm sure I'll be corrected shortly if my analysis of the RAW is incorrect), but from a game balance point of view the resulting character certainly won't be breaking the game or anything. Neither shadowcasters nor warlocks are powerful classes, heh, so this will probably only help.

I've always seen it interpreted that it only works for one side, but it's ambiguous enough that with a gullible DM you can probably get it to pass.

[Sian]

Shadowcasters qualify for:

Caster Level requirement (if it aren't specified with Arcane or Divine)

Spell level X (if it aren't specified with Arcane or Divine)

Any side of Mystic Theurge
Shadow Adept (see Class Chronicle (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070725)

[Troacctid]

Here's one that I made a while back.


Entry requirements:
Must have three levels in each of two base classes.

Class features:
Gestalt: At each level, advance your hit dice, base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, class features, and skills as if you were a gestalt character advancing both of the classes you used to qualify for this prestige class.



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Class features


1st
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


2nd
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


3rd
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


4th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


5th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


6th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


7th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


8th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


9th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


10th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


11th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


12th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


13th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class


14th
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+1 level of existing class/+1 level of existing class

[j_spencer93]

I would think it would mean you just couldn't trade that level 1 wizard away.

[DurionArcanis]

Here's one that I made a while back.
Can I hit you? I want to hit you, but I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

I would think it would mean you just couldn't trade that level 1 wizard away.
You need 2nd level spells don't you? That means you can't trade away whatever grants you 2nd level spells, period, including Wizard2 if that's what gave them to you.

Shadowcasters qualify for:

Caster Level requirement (if it aren't specified with Arcane or Divine)

Spell level X (if it aren't specified with Arcane or Divine)

Any side of Mystic Theurge
Shadow Adept (see Class Chronicle (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070725)
Yes, I know all of that. I'm looking for something designed with both of these classes in mind. Not just qualifies for something and advances spellcasting, but a PrC that actually combines the thematic of both classes and syngergizes with them beyond mystery/invocation advancement.

[j_spencer93]

Well then keep them, doesn't really hurt the build at all

[Kantolin]

I've always seen it interpreted that it only works for one side, but it's ambiguous enough that with a gullible DM you can probably get it to pass.

Personally, rather than requiring gullibility, I'd just be straight forward with a prospective DM. Start from "Hey, I'd like to merge these two classes via a theurge, and it looks like shadowcaster qualifies for both sides. From a game balance point of view this is okay, so I thought I'd ask."

No need to utilize any kind of bad faith; we're talking about a shadowcaster here.

Anyway, the poor shadowcaster gets very little love. Everyone loves the binder, everyone loves to hate the truenamer, nobody even notices the shadowcaster in the middle (whether to like or dislike). Thus, if you're not using mystic theurge nor one of the other psuedo theurges, you're kind of out of luck unless you homebrew something yourself.

Personally, if I was homebrewing, I'd make sure it advanced sustaining shadow, as that is a feature I'm particularly fond of.

[j_spencer93]

Personally, rather than requiring gullibility, I'd just be straight forward with a prospective DM. Start from "Hey, I'd like to merge these two classes via a theurge, and it looks like shadowcaster qualifies for both sides. From a game balance point of view this is okay, so I thought I'd ask."

No need to utilize any kind of bad faith; we're talking about a shadowcaster here.

Anyway, the poor shadowcaster gets very little love. Everyone loves the binder, everyone loves to hate the truenamer, nobody even notices the shadowcaster in the middle (whether to like or dislike). Thus, if you're not using mystic theurge nor one of the other psuedo theurges, you're kind of out of luck unless you homebrew something yourself.

Personally, if I was homebrewing, I'd make sure it advanced sustaining shadow, as that is a feature I'm particularly fond of.

dude i freaking love the class.

[Troacctid]

Can I hit you? I want to hit you, but I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

Not even a little bit sarcastic.

[WeaselGuy]

Pretty sure ToM was one of the last books for 3.5 to come out (along with ToB).
This means that if a theurge class wasn't in ToM to combine Warlock with Shadowcaster, then it probably doesn't specifically exist.
Since you don't want ideas on how to get into classes that don't specifically advance features of each class, I'm pretty sure you're gonna be up a relatively well known creek, without the proverbial paddle.
If you did want to join an existing theurge class, the best way would probably to utilize the text pertaining to Shadowcaster that says they can qualify for arcane or divine spellcasting requirements, and use the Eldritch Theurge PrC to advance them both.
If you don't like that option, then you should probably go to the Homebrew sub-forum and ask those wonderful people over there, since this sub-forum doesn't really deal with Homebrew, other than "yeah, that sounds like it could work with a little permission from your DM, ask him/her".

[Chronos]

Shadowcaster ordinarily doesn't qualify for arcane nor divine. It's only for the Mystic Theurge class specifically that it makes the exception.