what paladin path fits a CN alignment best?

[CyberThread]

Besides the dm path which one of the three in the players book do you see working?

[Magic Myrmidon]

I'd say Oath of the Ancients. It's got some feytype themes going on already, and spreading and protecting the "light" can mean a loooot of things. Maybe the "light" is the pure hedonistic revelry that comes from pure anarchy.

[GM_3826]

Besides the dm path which one of the three in the players book do you see working?

I wouldn't recommend playing a Paladin as Chaotic Neutral, as there is the problem in breaking one's Oath, but if you must, then the Oath of Vengeance works best. Oath of the Ancients is even more goody-goody than the classic Paladin. Chaotic Neutral fits the "any means necessary" type of Paladin that the Oath of Vengeance is, as well.

[Naanomi]

I will second Ancients. You would be a rather benevolent CN, but you could still be Chaotic focused enough to keep the Neutral. Ysgard style CN, not Limbo

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Personally, I see Devotion as Lawful Good, Ancients as Neutral Good or Chaotic Good and Vengeance as Lawful Neutral. I'm sure you could find RP reasons for a particular paladin to be off alignment by a degree. Is there a specific reason you want to be Chaotic Neutral, or is this just an exercise?

[Mr.Moron]

Vengeance is the only one that could fit. Both Devotion & Ancients put a strong emphasis on putting the welfare of others first (in different ways), which puts them decidedly in the "Good Camp".

[CyberThread]

Personally, I see Devotion as Lawful Good, Ancients as Neutral Good or Chaotic Good and Vengeance as Lawful Neutral. I'm sure you could find RP reasons for a particular paladin to be off alignment by a degree. Is there a specific reason you want to be Chaotic Neutral, or is this just an exercise?


Paladin of grinning through many arrows school of thought instead of everyday chaotic shamans.

[Shining Wrath]

The way I see a chaotic Paladin is that you adhere very strictly to an Oath that emphasizes freedom and opposition to corrupt authority. You have freely chosen to be completely OCD about offing tyrants. Pardon me, CDO, the letters must be arranged alphabetically. :smallbiggrin:

From there I can make it work for any of the three, but Devotion I'd probably be working hardest.

Devotion: The Tyrant oppresses the innocent! He is a usurper of the throne! I must join the Rebel Alliance and swear fealty to the Cause! N.B.: This is ONE particular tyrant, and one particular cause - not very portable.

Ancients: Wherever tyrants reign, the Light is dimmed, and joy is lessened. I must seek out tyrants and oppose their darkness.

Vengeance: A despot killed everyone I loved. Now I'm going to kill despots. A lot.

[Grek]

Remember, your Oath's Tenets aren't prerequisites, they're the standard you hold yourself to. Something to aim for. If you are (for example) a Chaotic Neutral Paladin of Devotion, that means you personally like to follow your whims and yearn for a life of personal freedoms, but you also think it is important to be an honest, decisive, responsible force for the side of good.

Maybe this is because you're a soldier who fought against the Evil Empire when you were young and full of idealism, but now you're old and tired and just want to see the world before you kick the bucket. But then the Call came again and there's more evil to fight and so you had to throw away your freedom and happiness once again to go fight the good fight.

Maybe this is because you're a tricky sneaky rogue who was defeated by a paladin in a fair duel, despite your numerous attempts to cheat them of their victory. After seeing the grace their strictures gave them, you decided to follow in that paladin's footsteps. But you're not actually very good at it yet, and don't quite get why the rules against lying and cheating are there.

Maybe this is because your father and his father before him and his father before him were all paladins, and by Pelor you get to be one too whether you like it or not. You wanted to be a bard, but you've got a legacy to uphold and parents to please. Besides, who knows what would happen if the Drill Sargent ever finds out you broke with the Paladin Temple?

I cannot stress this enough: NOTHING BAD HAPPENS if you break one of your oath's rules. You don't "fall"; that isn't a thing in 5e. There's no supernatural force looking over your shoulder waiting for a gotcha to make you lose your powers. Instead, your characters should feel guilty about breaking the rule they try to keep to. They might try to make up for what they did on their own initiative, or talk to a priest, or pray for forgiveness or just try to do better next time. Or they might justify it as being acceptable just this once, as a necessity, but not OK in general because that would set a bad precedent. As long as your character is thinking about their oath and trying to do right by what they believe in, you are roleplaying properly.

So which works best? Any of them. You can make an interesting character out of any combination of Alignment + Oath, because discord between the two is itself a possible character hook.

[lebefrei]

Addendum: I don't believe in complete absolutes, and everything has an exception. What I say below is for a standard player. There are exceptional role players that create characters well above and beyond anything the game asks of them. They write a character that would be worth a novel. That is the sort of chaotic neutral ancients or devotion paladin I'd accept as a DM. One struggling with such internal conflict of action vs thought that it is a central premise of the character. This would be like a Jedi falling but trying not to. Otherwise I think to play CN as either of these choices is ridiculous, as explained below.

Being a paladin isn't about gods or others, it is about you and the oath you have taken upon yourself. "The most important aspect of a paladin character is the nature of his or her holy quest." Straight from the Player's Handbook. It is about your lifestyle. A paladin isn't just doing his job for a paycheck. She doesn't go home go her children at the end of the day. This is a life calling. You live and die by your oath.

Saying nothing bad happens if one breaks an Oath is incorrect, else there would be nothing called an Oathbreaker. The difference is that it is up to the DM (and even the player) versus overly draconian rules.

Ancients would not be chaotic neutral. Period. I can't believe multiple people recommend this. That alignment is too self absorbed. Chaotic neutral fey would even be enemies of one at times. The following words are used at least once in their oaths: mercy, kindness, forgiveness, hope, good, love, joy, courage... There is nothing about a self focused, unreliable chaotic neutral character in that. Any good applies, not neutral. It's clearly written that way.

Devotion by its own name is too devoted for the whimsy of chaotic neutral, and likely even chaotic good. Honor, duty, courage, and compassion? Those might be things a chaotic neutral character ascribes to at times, but they are not something they live by. They could be lawful neutral, as the Duty, Courage and Honor parts are pushed over compassion. But chaotic neutral? Too fickle.

Vengeance has some wiggle room here. Fight the greater evil. A chaotic neutral character still sees the threat of evil, most especially great evil. They likely commit small evils without much thought, and that fits in fine with this oath. No mercy for the wicked? Easier to do with less mercy in your heart. By an means necessary? Wow, we're definitely on the right track for someone that lives by a personal code that others may find questionable, and leave some people saying "man that guy is crazy!" Now, the hard part is restitution. I MUST help those harmed by their (your enemies') misdeeds. These characters literally gain their power through their oaths. Do you want to be tied to aiding those harmed by those you fight? It could be your link that keeps you from slipping to evil. It's not a bad plot hook.

I don't own the SCAG so I can't comment on the exact wording of the oath of the crown, but being tied to a crown doesn't sound fun for one who lives a chaotic life. Although if you have a lot of freedom and money to through around in service to the crown, it's possible.

Oathbreaker is out for now, as the DMG says that it requires evil. However, if you go vengeance and find your actions a little too questionable, you and/or your DM may decide that works better for you.

[JumboWheat01]

I don't own the SCAG so I can't comment on the exact wording of the oath of the crown, but if you can perform for profit over duty (mercenary to a king and oathbound by the payment) that may work.

Crown comes off to me as VERY Lawful Neutral. You swear your oath to the ruler/rulers of your kingdom, for good or ill, you will defend it.

Vengeance, like what others have said, is a good one for someone determined to be Chaotic Neutral, though I always felt Vengeance was more of a True Neutral kind of thing. Vengeance is all about using what lawful or good people would consider unsavory tactics and focus to get their job done, and could care less about what other people think about them. They ignore the lesser evil by focusing on the greater one, which would be the only evil to truly get a rise out of a Chaotic Neutral character.

I almost get the idea of a Dex-based paladin, probably urchin or one of the more criminal backgrounds, using stealth and deceit. They could be archery or finesse based. Perfectly possible to play such a character.

[lebefrei]

I wrote a long post above, but a less contemplative and more decisive answer is "none." Paladins live by an oath. It isn't forced on them, it is chosen. I have known people I'd define as chaotic neutral. They keep to no promises, do harm unintentionally through thoughtlessness, and disappear to a new adventure without notice. They can be fun, but not reliable. Someone that lives by oaths, and truly keeps them, can be relied upon.

Sometimes we have to decide if these characters are more than just a block of magical powers. Why do you want to be a CN Paladin? Do you want to get away with anything while having smites? Ask your DM to make a new kind called "Oathless" or "Pathless"

"Let none bind you, and do not bind yourself. Good and evil will lead you from hedonism."
"Live for for the moment, for it could be your last."
"Every pleasure is worth seeking, for the best life possible"
"Take what is offered and ask for more, until your cup overfloweth"

You aren't a good guy, but you're not a villain. You're just a hedonist, out to smite for fun and profit. Freedom of movement aura, immune to charm (not an aura), advantage on deception and alter self at will, turn into a Slaad as capstone (roll d6 for kind, gain different benefits depending).

[Lines]

Oathbreaker. Ignore the description of having to be evil, it's dumb - breaking your oath isn't evil, it's chaotic. A chaotic act doesn't necessarily make you chaotic, and breaking your oath can easily be an evil thing to do or be done because you're evil, but it doesn't have to be. If a crown paladin lost faith in the subject of their oath and broke it, they could easily end up a chaotic neutral oathbreaker.

[Tanarii]

I cannot stress this enough: NOTHING BAD HAPPENS if you break one of your oath's rules. You don't "fall"; that isn't a thing in 5e.Except for the part where where the DM can force you to abandon your class and adopt another, or turn into an Oath Breaker. You'd have to willfully break the tenets of your Oath and show no signs of repentance first (per the PHB). And it doesn't give anything on how abandoning your class and adopting another would work mechanically.

[Tanarii]

Here's what Chaotic Neutral means in 5e:
Typically, but not perfect or consistent, behavior is that you follow you whims, holding your personal freedoms above all else.

The reason it's described as typical, but not perfect or consistent, to allow for behavior coming from other aspects of your personality: Personality, Ideal, Bond, Flaw ... or Oaths. The best way to think of 5e Alignment is the ground state for your overall behavior when no other aspects of personality take precedence.

It would be very hard to play a CN Devotion or Ancients Paladin. You'd constant be overriding the way you'd otherwise typically act, and the oath you swore wouldn't match your moral and social attitudes at all. It'd be a constant battle for vigilance over your own nature. Fun! :)

[Sigreid]

I vote ancients as best pally for CN. The oath is all about defending hope and beauty. A CN OA Pally would simply defend beauty on both sides of the fence without prejudice. "We can't destroy this temple to Lovitar. Look at it, it's magnificent!"

[Talamare]

I vote Devotion

It seemed like the most unexpected answer that someone chaotic would play

Think about it
"I'm playing a Chaotic Paladin~!"
="Lemme guess, Vengeance?"
"Hah! Nope, Devotion~!"

[djreynolds]

Here's the thing, IMHO. Lawful people believe in stuff that is abstract. Chaotic people take it personally and wear their hearts on their sleeves. Pick a god whose belief system is akin to yours. Tempest may have paladins who can rage as well as smite. I'm not sure who the bard gods but those are a good one. Ask your DM if you can switch out the bonus spells for an even trade to show off your chaotic side. You definitely are a man who believes in personal freedom.

[Tarvil]

IMO it would be Oath of Vengeance Pally, played as madman and self proclaimed hero of justice. I've played something like this once, it was fun.

[PoeticDwarf]

I wouldn't recommend playing a Paladin as Chaotic Neutral, as there is the problem in breaking one's Oath, but if you must, then the Oath of Vengeance works best. Oath of the Ancients is even more goody-goody than the classic Paladin. Chaotic Neutral fits the "any means necessary" type of Paladin that the Oath of Vengeance is, as well.

This isn't 3.X
Every paladin could easily be roleplayed CG. devotion would be most difficult

[djreynolds]

This isn't 3.X
Every paladin could easily be roleplayed CG. devotion would be most difficult

You could role play a CG devotion paladin, but it would be very difficult, you are correct, as this would be the guy trying to help everyone because he cares so much and getting you into many a fight, good for exp and TPKs.

CG paladin deals with the good in his face, the here and now. He's defending the village and perhaps letting the BBEG get away.
LG paladin deals with greater good, and may pass the village under siege to get to the demon facilitating it.

Prepare to deal with guilt when playing a paladin, great role playing stuff.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

The Tyranny of Dragons game I'm currently DM'ing has a CN Vengeance Paladin, essentially done by focusing on the 'specific enemy' bit of Vengeance, and making it very much personal, rather than moral, but kept out of evil by the targets (the Cult of Dragons, specifically) really deserving it, and the guy still having some basic moral standards.

[Aasimar]

You can combine any alignment with any path.

Your oath doesn't have to completely align with how your internal moral compass functions.
It's an ideal you aspire to, a set of rules you've agreed to abide by, no matter how you personally feel about each one.