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Tor the Fallen
2007-04-16, 01:31 AM
I've played just about every Prince of Persia game since Apple's first golden age. The recent incarnations on consoles absolutely blew me away. While no good at them, at all, the visual of sprinting along a wall over a bottomless pit, while dodging spinning blades, followed by dropping 20 feet onto someones head and bisecting them with a scimitar, then dual wielding his weapon to deflect incoming projectiles, and defeating the remaining enemies in a series of gravity & time defying parries, thrusts, and leaps, astounded me.

So I want to make a Prince o' Persia-esque character.

As summer rapidly approaches, I will soon return home from school to play with my old gaming group. As there are only three of us, we will be playing relatively highpowered- gestalt, 40 pt buy, and relatively lax rules, in favor of the PCs.

I'm wondering what the ideal build would be to execute such a character, starting at level 1. If rampant abuse of multiclassing does not incur xp penalties, and I can use the weird gestalt thing that allows for a full BAB progression, regardless of class, and using only RAW stuff found online (crystalkeep, SRD, wizards), here's what I have (at level 10):

Human, str 13, dex 16, con 14, int 11, wis 20 (2 boosts from levels), cha 8
Ftr1/Monk9//Psi War7/Rng2/Rog1

Ftr for the feat and kicking off the problem with not using fractional BAB with gestalt (wiht only two players, it won't be *that* game breaking to have a full BAB progression). Monk 9 for saves, flurry, imp evasion, speed, slow fall and the wisdom synergy with psywar, and the bonus feats. Psywar for lion's charge, up the walls, psionic charge, and because it's better than fighter. By level 6, I can charge up a wall, then leap off at an enemy and follow with a full attack.

Ranger for track, the skill points, and TWF. The favored enemy will be useful at the low levels when all we're fighting are orcs or kobolds or whatever. Rogue 1 for the sneak attack and skill points. With a full BAB & the monk's flurry, all those d6s will add up. The ability to find traps will come in handy, even if I won't be able to disable them.

Now, as I read it, you can make a full attack combining natural attacks with armed ones. Would a monk with twf fighting be able to combine a flurry with a full attack from twf? Or does a monk's fists not count as natural weapons? If I used a psionic power that gave a natural attack, could I flurry and then claw?

What I'm thinking of doing is flipping out, kung-fu leaping of a wall with a kick, followed through with elbows, knees, head butts, and slashing with a rapier (that looks like a scimitar) and shortsword/handaxe/whatever. At level ten, would I get flurry for 3 attacks, then two more from TWF & greater TWF? At what attack bonuses?

Skills that would be maxed would be climb, jump, tumble and balance. Points would also go to swim, move silent, hide, survival, know local, nature, dungeoneering and enough in know psionics & history to qualify for the warmind prc.

Feat selection would look like:
lvl 1: weapon finesse (ftr 1), up the walls (psywar 1), able learner (human), speed of thought (level 1)
2: stunning fist (monk 1)
3: Deflect Arrows (monk 2), TWF (ranger 2), Psionic charge (level 3)
4: Power Attack (psionic warrior)
5: -
6: Flying kick (level 6)
7: Imp disarm (monk)
8: Leap attack (psi war)
9: Imp. TWF (level 9)
10: -

The build is set up to get me to level 10 with 10 BAB, Monk 9 and Psiwar7, at the cost of skill pts and bigger HD. Psi war had to be taken at level 1 so I could qualify for psionic feats asap, and get all the stylistic wall-fu crackin'. Rogue&ranger are there to get the twf/flurry/sneak attack going early, since I won't be THF+pwr atk. Power attack is for the flying kick, and power attacking for only two (which I make up for in a charge) yields a considerable amount of damage when added to all the attacks I'm making, on top of leap attack.

I know this isn't the most powerful build out there, but I wanted some versatility, mobility, and a whole lot of kickass. The only major issue is that of twf+flurry working together.

Thoughts?

TheOOB
2007-04-16, 01:50 AM
Hmm, the prince seems more like a diamond mind warblade/swordsage to me, maybe with a little stone dragon and iron heart mixed in there, he acually doesn't manifest anything all that supernatural save for his time hopping.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to create a stance that has the effect of up the walls, not sure what disipline though, perhaps iron heart or diamond mind.

TOAOMT
2007-04-16, 01:52 AM
One thing to take into account is that the original Prince and the new Prince are completely different. For the original I would say Swashbuckler/Rogue for 3 levels, Fighter/Rogue to pick up the feint tree (seemed like something the old one would be big on), followed by Duelist/Rogue.

The focus should be on Intelligence and Dex, though his strength, con, and wisdom should be fairly decent as well, and he wooed a Princess so he'd be bound for some kind of CHA. With 40 point buy maybe...

STR 12, Dex 16, CON 12, INT 16, WIS 14 CHA 14

For the new one I'm afraid I can't help you.

(Maybe you could get bonus points for the "Dies in one hit if not armed" drawback?)

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-16, 01:56 AM
Don't have 9 swords. The ability to manifest adds a good deal versatility, as well.

Tola
2007-04-16, 10:39 AM
I thought I heard something about a feat that allows some weapons to be used in a Flurry Of Blows.

Inyssius Tor
2007-04-16, 10:42 AM
Skill Tricks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=5) are useful for the acrobatically inclined.

Indon
2007-04-16, 11:24 AM
One thing to take into account is that the original Prince and the new Prince are completely different.

I thought the new prince was just older? Hmm...

Personally, I'd mostly use Tome of Battle for the new prince, and rely on magical item effects for his time-based abilities.

Ranis
2007-04-16, 01:54 PM
I thought the new prince was just older? Hmm...

He is. I think he's talking about style differences.

Gungnir
2007-04-16, 02:30 PM
I'm not sure where to fit it in that... conglomerate you've got going on there, but the first thing that comes to mind when I think about the Prince's fighting style is Dervish.

Anyone else scared by the thought of a dervish 10 with the Dagger of Time?

elliott20
2007-04-16, 02:41 PM
well, if you're talking about the new Prince of Persia with Time Dagger and all that jazz, you'll need to cover several aspects:

1. TWF
2. Acrobatic abilities
3. Sneak Attack

Fastest and easiest way to do it? Swordsage, TWF, Diamond Mind, Shadow Dagger, and maybe a couple levels of rogue to get some sneak attack bonus in there.

hard way? fighter/rogue/duelist/swashbuckler

elliott20
2007-04-16, 02:44 PM
[double post, my bad]

AMX
2007-04-16, 02:54 PM
He is. I think he's talking about style differences.No, current official line is that the two are entirely seperate.

Also, their respective backgrounds are incompatible (the new prince being the son of the king of Persia, while the old one was a foreigner).

Annarrkkii
2007-04-16, 04:36 PM
There's a lengthy thread for this on the WotC boards somewheres. He is almost certainly a Swordsage, with Diamond Mind, Tiger Claw, and Shadow Hand as his primary schools and a touch of Stone Dragon and Desert Wind to qualify for Desert Wind Dodge and Desert Flame.

Person_Man
2007-04-16, 05:05 PM
As others have said, a ToB build would be best.

Also, I don't think you need Sneak Attack, necessarily. Flavor wise, I think it would be better to go with a Death Attack.

List of things that grant Death Attack:

Assassin
Black Flame Zealot
Dark Hunter
Darkwood Stalker
Stonedeath Assassin
Cultist of the Shattered Peak
Monk of the Long Death
Telflammar Shadowlord
Thayan Slaver
Slayer of Domiel
Justice of Weald and Woe
Strifeleader
Imaskari Vengeance Seeker


Another option is to go Rogue 3/Swashbucker 17 with the Daring Outlaw feat for 19/20 BAB and full Sneak Attack, plus plenty of Skills, free Weapon Finesse, Int bonus to damage, etc. Works quite well with TWF.

TOAOMT
2007-04-16, 08:51 PM
My comment on the Princes being different is they are totally different. The new games are not Prince of Persia games, they're an entirely new series that had the Prince of Persia name slapped on to increase sales.

That said, I'm sure they're awesome games.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-16, 11:09 PM
These are all really great suggestions, only problem? I have no access to any of the material from which your suggestions spring.

And don't forget, it's gestalt, with the goal being sweet acrobatic stuff early, rather than waiting to qualify for 3 different PrCs. I don't think he'll ever get past level 8. That's why I made it a psychic character- easy to be leaping off walls in full attack charges by level 4.