Help with limited Dervish build

[Val666]

Hello everyone c: today my request for you guys is help with a dervish build with limited resources at hand. My DM have allowed Core, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, Complete Adventurer, Races of the Wild, Arms & Equipment Guide and Book of Exalted Deeds. We are starting lvl 2, 32-point but, PH races only and no wealth. I thought about standard whirling dervish concept and even power dancer but I know you guys may have some interesting ideas ;) thanks for your help, always :v

[bjoern]

This build has crazy WBL, but I like the build order as far as class and feats etc go. Just use different gear.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_Damage_Dervish_%283.5e_Optimized_Characte r_Build%29

I know. I know. Dndwiki, boo hiss.

[jiriku]

Your biggest challenge is that dervishes want to spend a lot of money on nice weapons and you will not be able to do so.

Do you have the option to petition for homebrewed classes or web resources?

If you can use web resources, an elven sorcerer 6/swiftblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) 9/abjurant champion 5 makes a very solid, self-sufficient gish build that actually needs very little Charisma to run (freeing up ability points for physical attributes) and can buff with spells like haste, luminous armor, and greater magic weapon to be very mobile and effective in combat.

If you can use homebrew, my soulcrafter class performs excellently as a mobile dual-wielding warrior and provides its own equipment, freeing you from needing to buy expensive magical gear.

If you're stuck with the listed books, some combination of ranger 10/dervish 10 would perform adequately. You would of course pursue the TWF combat style, and I'd suggest the Ancestral Relic feat applied to a double weapon such as a quarterstaff or double scimitar. Ancestral Relic will let you convert found treasure into magic enhancements at full value, rather than having to sell it for half in order to buy gear at full price, and using a double weapon lets you enchant your main hand and off hand in this manner for the cost of only Ancestral Relic one feat. Put a wand chamber in both ends of your double weapon and load them with wands of useful ranger spells such as swift haste and blade storm. Spend a feat on Craft Wand to make these wands yourself at half price.

Party-wise, if the DM is hinting at a low-resource campaign, it would be a good idea for everyone in the party to emphasize self-sufficiency. Someone should have ranks in Survival so you can forage for food and shelter in the wild. Casters should lean towards full-list or spells-known classes like druid, cleric, or sorcerer, and away from the book-dependent wizard. Pure martial characters are a poor idea, since such characters depend heavily on gear and magical healing but cannot provide such resources for themselves. Two-weapon or sword-and board concepts such as a rogue or traditional dervish (sorry) are especially weak, and someone who wants to play a shooter would be better served to play warlock rather than fighter or ranger.

[Darrin]

My DM have allowed Core, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, Complete Adventurer, Races of the Wild, Arms & Equipment Guide and Book of Exalted Deeds.

Given your sources... how about:

Race: Human.
1) Swashbuckler 1. Feat: TWF. Bonus: Weapon Finesse. Human: Weapon Focus.
2) Fighter 1. Bonus: Expeditious Dodge.
3) Fighter 2. Feat: Mobility. Bonus: Combat Expertise.
4) Fighter 3.
5) Fighter 4. Bonus: Weapon Specialization.
6) Dervish 1. Feat: Improved TWF.
7) Dervish 2.
8) Dervish 3. Bonus: Spring Attack.
9) Dervish 4. Feat: Improved Critical.
10) Dervish 5.
11) Dervish 6.
12) Dervish 7. Feat: Greater TWF.
13) Dervish 8.
14) Dervish 9.
15) Dervish 10. Feat: Combat Reflexes.
16) Tempest 1.
17) Tempest 2.
18) Tempest 3. Feat: Karmic Strike.
19) Tempest 4.
20) Tempest 5.

(I actually loathe Tempest, but this build qualifies for it pretty much automatically, it's just barely more interesting than "five more levels of fighter/swashbuckler", and it fits nicely with the rest of the build.)

Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 1 is also a pretty standard entry. You lose out on Weapon Specialization, but you get more skill points, ranger spells via wands, and you can pretend that Track is useful.

It'd be nice to get Combat Reflexes online earlier, or get Ancestral Relic in there to give you a break on enchanting your primary weapon. If you'd prefer that, then consider delaying Improved Critical or Greater TWF.

[Val666]

Thanks everyone for the answers so far!

Today a question came to mind: Based on your game experience and relying on the 2 builds of the Dervish Handbook (Whirling Dervish and Power Dancer) which is more stable and deals more damage?

[dantiesilva]

I once built a Human fighter/Kensai/Dervish that worked out rather well. Thanks to the kensai ability to give weapon bonuses without actually dumping all your money into them, exotic weapon proficency that duel scimitar from ebberon and have fun. Is it as optimized as other builds, not really, however it is rather easy and straight forward.

[Val666]

O.o nice! Can I have a little more detail about your build :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:?

[arclance]

If you use light exotic weapons one level of Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior pg.30) gets you this.

Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting:
When wielding the same light exotic weapon in each hand, the character is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
If he already has the feat, the penalties on attack rolls are lessened to –1 for both the primary hand and the off hand when fighting in this manner.
Depending on how your DM rules it interacts with Ambidexterity from Tempest (Complete Adventurer pg.81) you could end up with a net +1 to hit when two-weapon fighting.

Ambidexterity (Ex):
For a tempest of 2nd level or higher, her attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are lessened by 1 (from –4 to –3, or from –2 to –1 if the off-hand weapon is a light weapon).
At 4th level, the attack penalties are lessened by another 1 (from –3 to –2, or to +0 if the off-hand weapon is a light weapon).
The character loses this ability when fighting in medium or heavy armor.
See Table 8–10: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties, page 160 of the Player’s Handbook.

[jiriku]

Oooh yeah, kensai's another good choice. Anything that opens the door to powerful magic weapons makes life in a low-wealth game much easier for a martial character.

[morkendi]

This is my fovorit dervish build I have played.
Cobra strike monk 2/ pally 2/ fighter 2/ dervish 6. This is poi.t we stopped, but plan was cleric, druid, or chameleon for buffs.

Feats are weapon focus unarmed strike, combat expertise, versatile unarmed strike, combat reflexes, elusive target, superior unarmed strike, improved natural attack, flay foe, sacred vow, vow of poverty, kai strike, sanctify kai strike, holy kai strike. Few for feats available as we didn't play out to 20th lvl

Current stats with all vow bonuses. Star 14, con 16, dex 20, into 13, was 18, cha 16. Ac with out dervish dance but all vow stuff is 33 with 24 flat and 28 touch. Saves are fort 20/ ref 12/ will 10. To hit before dance is 16/12/6 with flurry 14/14/9/4. Damage 2d8+4 plus 2d6 vs evil plus 1d6 flay foe plus 3 to hit and damage when dancing.

The way things work, I can activate dance first round, after that I can move and flurry because they work together.

Turned out fairly well in combat. We went to the temple of Orcus and faced a ton of demons. I was able to use elusive target a lot to make them hit each other as well.

Sorry, most was copy and pasted from old post, but gives the basic idea.

[atemu1234]

If you use light exotic weapons one level of Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior pg.30) gets you this.

Depending on how your DM rules it interacts with Ambidexterity from Tempest (Complete Adventurer pg.81) you could end up with a net +1 to hit when two-weapon fighting.

If you can get a level or two of warblade, those get a lot better.

[Val666]

That vow dervish build e.e sounds awesomeee. Thanks for sharing it c:

I can't take warblade levels ;( ToB is banned u-u

As I would like to play a monkish dervish, starting with monk in this game is not very good, I already died playing a monk, thats why im trying dervish. Also, covincing the GM to get monk levels after level 1 will be though cuz he's pretty strict with multiclassig with no sense at all. I mean, he wants us to find masters and such and you know...becoming a monk is not that easy Dx.

[gorfnab]

Here is a basic Dervish Swift Hunter Build I have had some minor success with.

Human
Scout 5/ Ranger 2/ Barbarian Whirling Frenzy (UA) Spiritual Totem: Lion (CC) 1/ Dervish 9/ Scout 3
Feats:
1. Expeditious Dodge or regular Dodge, Mobility
3. Weapon Finesse
4. B: Combat Expertise
6. Weapon Focus Scimitar
7. B: Two Weapon Fighting
9. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. Swift Hunter
15. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. *Open Feat*
20. B: Improved Skirmish

*Open Feat Options* - Extra Rage (set to Whirling Frenzy), Elusive Target (negates Power Attackers), Combat Reflexes (extra attacks, somewhat situational depending on the game), Deadly Defense (combos with Elaborate Parry), or Nemesis (great for Arcane Hunter Ranger ACF, CM)

[Val666]

Very nice build :v scout sounds really good c: did you miss a lvl 1 feat or Im reading wrong? 1 lvl 1 feat and anotjer for being human

[Val666]

Guys I wondering i you have any good THF Dervish build ;v (core + complete warrior, divine, arcane, mage, adventurer, BoED and Races of the Wild) thanks again and sorry for asking so much 😔

[gorfnab]

Very nice build :v scout sounds really good c: did you miss a lvl 1 feat or Im reading wrong? 1 lvl 1 feat and anotjer for being human
Level 1 - Dodge (or Expeditious Dodge)
Human bonus feat - Mobility

If you use my build and are starting at second level as stated in your post, you could start with Ranger for levels 1 and 2, with the feats Weapon Finesse and Dodge (move Mobility to third, Combat Expertise would become a bonus feat at level 6 because of Scout level progression). This would give you a little better melee combat options for those levels, however you would loose out on a quite a few skill points. Otherwise just plink a way with a bow until level 3 when the melee options start to come in.

[Val666]

Right right. Im sorry, im sleepy Dx