Monk + spear

[j_spencer93]

So if a monk throws a spear it allows him to use his secondary melee to strike a nearby target?

[odigity]

So if a monk throws a spear it allows him to use his secondary melee to strike a nearby target?

You need to be more specific.

Are you talking about a level 5 Monk with Extra Attack using his first attack to throw a spear and then making a second attack with a second weapon or unarmed strike?

Or are you talking about a lower level Monk using their Attack action to throw a spear, then using their bonus action to make an Unarmed Strike as per their Martial Arts feature?

[Eloel]

I think that's what he's saying

[odigity]

I think that's what he's saying

Dude... I presented two different options. Like him, you are failing to distinguish between the two.

[j_spencer93]

I didn't fail to distinguish between the two because your comment came after my own. Lol

Anyways, yes the level one bonus action to hit. Can you do it after throwing a spear, it seems to be a yes but I just want to clarify.

[odigity]

Anyways, yes the level one bonus action to hit. Can you do it after throwing a spear, it seems to be a yes but I just want to clarify.

Absolutely. The relevant part of the Martial Arts feature:

"When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action."

And spear is considered a monk weapon:

"monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property"

So you're good.

[Easy_Lee]

Absolutely. The relevant part of the Martial Arts feature:

"When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action."

And spear is considered a monk weapon:

"monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property"

So you're good.

Yep, ranged attack roll is still an attack roll. A monk could presumably fluff daggers as shuriken.

[ruy343]

Yep, ranged attack roll is still an attack roll. A monk could presumably fluff daggers as shuriken.

Actually, the DM's guide recommended refluffing darts as shuriken in the text. That's practically RAW, right? :smalltongue:

[Easy_Lee]

Actually, the DM's guide recommended refluffing darts as shuriken in the text. That's practically RAW, right? :smalltongue:

Heh, yeah that's as RAW as it gets. Darts make more sense for shuriken; I had confused them with kunai, which would make more sense for daggers. Hope I didn't offend anyone's sensibilities.

[ad_hoc]

Darts don't work though because they are ranged weapons.

[j_spencer93]

Ok thank you, I thought that was right. It just seemed a little powerful last night in our game.

[SharkForce]

Ok thank you, I thought that was right. It just seemed a little powerful last night in our game.

it is right. you can't do it with darts (not that there is any major benefit to using darts over daggers), but you can do it with daggers, spears, javelins, hand axes, and light hammers. personally, i'd just allow it with darts as well anyways, because frankly, i think it fits (especially for shadow monks - i'd probably allow blowguns too in theory, but the loading property means it probably doesn't matter), but YMMV.

[ruy343]

Darts don't work though because they are ranged weapons.

Huh, I could swear that they had proficiency with darts... Oh well.

[Jeraa]

Huh, I could swear that they had proficiency with darts... Oh well.

They do have proficiency. Darts don't qualify as a monk weapon, however. Only certain melee weapons qualify as monk weapons (unarmed strikes, short swords, and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property). To use Martial Arts, you have to attack with a monk weapon.

[Easy_Lee]

Just checked the book and it does indeed specify that monk weapons are simple melee weapons that lack the two-handed or heavy properties, plus shortswords. So monks can throw daggers, handaxes, javelins, light hammers, and spears with dexterity and use martial arts in the same round. Darts are out.

It wouldn't be unreasonable for a DM to add darts back if he desires shuriken lighter than daggers. Darts are identical to daggers aside from lower weight and lacking the "light" property (Wait, what? Darts weigh less but aren't light?). Seeing as how simple "melee" weapons are specified, I imagine that some DMs will probably say that martial arts doesn't work with weapons when they're thrown. I'm not one of those DMs, but I bet that someone will do it.

[EvanescentHero]

(Wait, what? Darts weigh less but aren't light?)

Does any ranged weapon have the light property? Doesn't that only apply to melee weapons for dual-wielding?

[Jeraa]

Does any ranged weapon have the light property? Doesn't that only apply to melee weapons for dual-wielding?

Hand crossbows are light ranged weapons.

[EvanescentHero]

Hand crossbows are light ranged weapons.

Ah, fair enough. I guess they just didn't want people dual-wielding exclusively thrown weapons.

Ironically, the light crossbow probably doesn't have the light property.

[j_spencer93]

this works really good actually

[ChubbyRain]

I hate the "no heavy weapons", how else am I going to make Jackie Chan using a ladder to destroy his enemies with combination of said ladder and a flurry of martial arts attacks?

But anyways...

Don't take the weapon table too seriously, it is a joke at best.

[j_spencer93]

I like the whole streamlined thing in 5.0 but some of it just seemed lazy, like a few of the weapons. But they mostly are ok

[Vogonjeltz]

I hate the "no heavy weapons", how else am I going to make Jackie Chan using a ladder to destroy his enemies with combination of said ladder and a flurry of martial arts attacks?

You aren't. Even Jackie Chan can't use and ladder AND make an unarmed attack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrRFzwPE0d4

[ChubbyRain]

You aren't. Even Jackie Chan can't use and ladder AND make an unarmed attack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrRFzwPE0d4

Fantasy game Jackie Chan can though. Jackie Chan is limited by real world physics but D&D is not and should not.

Hit with a ladder and then head butt and then kick an enemy. Easy peasy.

[Joe the Rat]

I'm thinking Jackie Chan is at least level 5, so extra attacks are in play. He's at least level 4, for Tavern Brawler and one of the Toughness-type feats.

[Vogonjeltz]

Fantasy game Jackie Chan can though. Jackie Chan is limited by real world physics but D&D is not and should not.

Hit with a ladder and then head butt and then kick an enemy. Easy peasy.

So not actually Jackie Chan? That defeats the purpose of using some known person as a reference point. If we're discussing Person X that you just imagined and whom I have no point of reference for...then yes, your statement is entirely true in that context, in the same way that President George Washington (the one I'm imagining) is not limited by the real world but can shoot laser beams out of his eyes and fly. Despite being true, it's useless for purposes of a shared discussion.

[EvanescentHero]

So not actually Jackie Chan? That defeats the purpose of using some known person as a reference point. If we're discussing Person X that you just imagined and whom I have no point of reference for...then yes, your statement is entirely true in that context, in the same way that President George Washington (the one I'm imagining) is not limited by the real world but can shoot laser beams out of his eyes and fly. Despite being true, it's useless for purposes of a shared discussion.

Wait, George Washington couldn't do that? Man, the textbooks I read really talked up his magical abilities. Damn revisionist history!

[ryan92084]

So not actually Jackie Chan? That defeats the purpose of using some known person as a reference point. If we're discussing Person X that you just imagined and whom I have no point of reference for...then yes, your statement is entirely true in that context, in the same way that President George Washington (the one I'm imagining) is not limited by the real world but can shoot laser beams out of his eyes and fly. Despite being true, it's useless for purposes of a shared discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7iVsdRbhnc Lyrics probably are nsfw but it seems appropriate.